Ishamael's travelling

[dubz]

In The Eye of the World, the second page of the prologue, Ishamael uses a form of travelling that I'm not very familiar with. It says, " the air rippled, shimmered, solidified into a man." I've read all the accounts of travelling and skimming but they never really say that someone appears. It says they open a gateway and step through it but in the prologue it doesnt mention any gateway. Is this some form of teleporting that was lost in the age of legends or could it be that this early in the book Robert Jordan didn't want to explain all the details of travelling???

[Zyrshnikashnu]

As far as I can tell, either RJ was unsure of how he wanted Traveling to work or this shimmering method is how Traveling works with the True Power.

 

All speculation, of course.

[Guest Barmacral]

During the first couple of books RJ had not truly figured out how he wanted the one power to work. Travelling is not really defined until Rand starts doing it.

[BrainFireBob]

RJ answered this one years ago.

 

Behold what it looks like to everyone else when you travel with the True Power.

[Luckers]

Except the description of Lews Therin travelling matches this instantaneous teleportation. And later we see Lanfear Travel from Falme, and again, she simply disapears. Lanfear did not use the True Power.

[Vaapad]

Except the description of Lews Therin travelling matches this instantaneous teleportation. And later we see Lanfear Travel from Falme' date=' and again, she simply disapears. Lanfear did not use the True Power.[/quote']

 

Got cites on this one? I was also 100% sure that RJ said this is what travelling w/ the TP looks like...

[Luckers]

Ummm... yes... In the prologue of the eye of the world for LTT and the scene at the end of tGH in Falme with Min and Lanfear for Lanfear. As i said in my post.

 

In addition you also have the description of Rand travelling at the end of the Eye of the World. Again we have this instantenous description, he was at the Eye, then he was at Tarwin's Gap, then Shayoul Ghoul. There was no description of a gateway, and Rand could not have possibly learnt the hillside where he fought Aginor, even full of saidin.

 

Aside from travelling that whole event troubles me. Why does Moiraine use Earth and Fire against Aginor when that is what she is weakest in. Why not a shiled, of a razor sharp flow of air? Where did the earth go when she made the hole? Why didn't Aginor shield her, or kill her out of hand... why didn't he shiled Rand? He had the strength. Why did the fire seem to hold him still?

[mègon]

RJ answered this one years ago.

 

Behold what it looks like to everyone else when you travel with the True Power.

 

Ok, that may be so, but let's look at something else for just a second.

 

We know that one of the Forsaken was not completely sealed up with the Dark One. I just blanked on who it was, but I'm going to assume it was Ishy. Seeing as LTT is already going mad from the Taint, this means the bore has already been sealed, which means the Forsaken are all caught in it too. Could this shimmering effect also be some sort of effect from that?

 

Then, I'll also point this out. If it wasn't Ishy who was only half sealed inside the Bore, then how did Ishy get out of the bore to go harass LTT.

 

And I'll include this last just as a slight description of Traveling with the True Power. There is a description once of Moridin travelling using the TP, I believe in LoC, and it says something to the effect of "The world around him screamed as he ripped a hole in reality and stepped through" (I will note that it's been over a year since I read this section, so I may be a bit off)

[Luckers]

It was Ishamael that was only partly trapped. However when he was asserting himself in that manner he flickered like a dying flame. This was when he was able to physically leave the bore--something that he was able to do on forty year cycles.

[Vaapad]

RJ answered this one years ago.

 

Behold what it looks like to everyone else when you travel with the True Power.

 

There is a description once of Moridin travelling using the TP' date=' I believe in LoC, and it says something to the effect of "The world around him screamed as he ripped a hole in reality and stepped through" (I will note that it's been over a year since I read this section, so I may be a bit off)[/quote']

 

This is correct - that was from Ishy's POV though. I thought RJ said the rippled instantaneous apparation is what it looks like from someone else's perspective when they see someone travelling w/ the TP...

[mègon]

This is correct - that was from Ishy's POV though. I thought RJ said the rippled instantaneous apparation is what it looks like from someone else's perspective when they see someone traveling w/ the TP...

 

Correct, I was just mentioning it so that people could see the other differences between traveling with the OP and traveling with the TP. So there is what it looks like to those watching and what it looks like for those doing.

[balefireruinssteaks]

I always thought Lanfear just made herself invisible in Falme, not so much Traveled.

 

Lanfear was always one for dramatics...walking out a door is one thing but simply vanishing (she would have known Min could not channel) is more dramatic.

[Guest Fire Lord]

Even if that's how someone using the True Power Travels, it doesn't explain the points Luckers raised. L.Therin an Rand Traveled pretty much the same way as Ishamael. Even if Rand was kind of stoned, it was not to the point he would have missed that peculiar, rotating silver line.

 

 

The way Moridin describes Traveling with the TP, if that's how the user sees it, how come a person on the other side doesn't see the hole? Moridin clearily steps through one, how is it then that he appears whole and not his legs first?

 

And now that Luckers pointed out, why didn't Aginor shield Rand?

[Ashaman Kovan]

What if someone inverted the weave for a gateway so that only they could see it? What would that look like?

[G the brave]

Another idea could be that there are 2 ways of traveling, that even the aies sedi from the AOL didn't know about.. which rand discovered all by imself in book 1.. though i personally think RJ just didn't really know how his own idea worked like he does in later books

[PrinceOfRavens]

plausible idea, cause in the AOL they didnt even know bonding 0_0

[Ashaman Kovan]

If they inverted their weave for a gateway though no one else would be able to see it right? So when they stepped through it wouldn't it seem like they just dissapeared? I would think at least.

[PrinceOfRavens]

isnt inverting only for making the weaves invisible? not the result

[Ashaman Kovan]

Hmm good point. I was under the impression that it could be used in some cases for both the weave itself and whatever effect it had.

[ShiftedInsights]

The inverted weave would look the same as an end result, its stated a few times that Traveling uses the power but isn't of the power, the weave collapses in on itself and then the gateway is formed....so I'm pretty sure that the only advantage inverting the weave would have is that other same gender channelers could not see what the traveler is up to until the gateway flashes into existence.

[Luckers]

gateways arn't in and of themselves of the power, the power is just used to create them. Inversion would not work, not would reversion. You would simply see a giant hole in the air sans the weaves that made it. Inverted light might work, but the weaver would not be able to invert the light on the other side of the gateway until it had opened; you would still witness the gateway from the other side.

 

Finally the way the air wavers, and then forms into Ishamael does not sound like someone stepping through a hidden gateway.

 

I always thought Lanfear just made herself invisible in Falme, not so much Traveled.

 

The air ripples when Inverted Light is used, and likely when it is first woven too. It seems unlikely that Lanfear would stand around for hours completely still in any case.

[Eitoishi]

Im not 100% sure but isnt the same description given when stepping out of TAR in the flesh? If that's the case then maybe Ishy was a 'fleshwalker' as someone has called it. Or like what is more plaussible RJ wasnt sure how he wanted traveling to work and tried to cover it up with the TP qoute forgetting about how rand did in EotW. As for Lanfear no telling what tricks she has up her sleeve.

[stoneface]

My take is that Travelling as originally used in TEotW did not meet the later requirements, so it had to be changed, and yes, the "TP Travelling" was to try to cover it. Come on, we demand perfection and absolute foresight for a series of a dozen books that takes two decades to write, and then we sit down in front of a TV and don't blink an eye at some of their plot/factual absurdities in the space of an hour. Really!!!

 

IMHO, Travelling started as a personal means of transportation, but as RJ developed the plot lines it was changed to allow armies to move. Then the issue of why the Trollocs used the Ways instead of Traveling came up, so Shadowspawn cannot survive a Gate (implicit spoiler left unstated).

 

The series started as one book with room for sequels (only a few Forsaken killed in the first book), and that book was well received. The contracts were most likely for only a few books at a time. The success of the series forced some additions, and my guess is that the Gateway method of Travelling is one of those additions (the DO recycling the Forsaken is another). Don't get wrapped around the axle about it, just keep calm until 2009 (read and enjoy).