Coming out as a dark friend

[chadsummerchild]

Hi guys, first post here, glad to see all the book lovers as a community. 

 

I’m coming out as a dark friend. I started rooting for the dark one when people became stupidly self righteous or power thirsty, they either think they should lead the final war against the dark one or too busy playing the game of thrones to think about the real threat. I wanted to scream so much while reading Elayne and Eg’s paths to be leaders of their realms, sometimes because of their own stupidity, sometimes because of people around them.

 

Anybody played RDR2? Cadsuane sound like Dutch to me saying all the time “I have a plan!”

 

Tell me what do you think, did you like anyone from the dark side of hate anyone from the light side? Ever considered of turning on our protagonists?

[Sabio]

I think RJ got a lot of people right.  It makes sense that just because the LB is coming doesn't mean people will change who they are.  Some will want more power, some will be kind, some will think only of themselves.  A lot of people didn't understand what the LB would really be like, many thought Rand would go confront the DO, they fight, problem solved.  How quickly the Shaido simply changed made no sense to me, but I think many people acted like people do.  After all in a real war there are still people who try to profit from it, look to advance their career, gain power etc..

 

Hate from the light side simple Egwene and Gawyn,  with Elayne being highly annoying.

[chadsummerchild]

20 minutes ago, Sabio said:

How quickly the Shaido simply changed made no sense to me

What do you mean by that? I don’t think they changed.

[jsbrads]

Yeah Sabio, Shaido were always like that. First meet with Couladin? He was their chosen leader, not some rando.

Yeah, Chad some people on the light side are annoying. I’m guessing you never read any of the Darkies talking? They are all annoying.

#TeamNarg ?

[chadsummerchild]

19 minutes ago, jsbrads said:

Yeah Sabio, Shaido were always like that. First meet with Couladin? He was their chosen leader, not some rando.

Yeah, Chad some people on the light side are annoying. I’m guessing you never read any of the Darkies talking? They are all annoying.

#TeamNarg ?

Yes, but them being annoying is expected I guess, I think another point made by RJ is that if all people behave like that selfishly, the Dark One wins without having to fight at all.

[Sabio]

Shaido were considered the most dishonorable clan, but just seems like they tossed away all their beliefs rather quickly.  Taking wetlanders captive etc...

[chadsummerchild]

1 minute ago, Sabio said:

tossed away all their beliefs

Yeah, I found them pretty consistent in being dishonorable after selecting two leaders that failed the Aiel way, so to me they didn’t change, just Shaido being Shaido.

[jsbrads]

Rand is a parallel to the Messiah and I have heard multiple religious people who are supposed to be moral people say things like everything will be permitted after.

Many people didn’t like what the Shaido were doing, but were willing to overlook horrible behavior because of what Rand said about the origins of the Aiel (also paralleled today). 

[Sabio]

I don't mind the Shaido being bad, it seemed rather realistic that one or two clans might not accept Rand as the leader.  I understand the Aiel leaving Team Rand for the Shaido over not beliving what he said, after all only 1 in 3 men survive Rhudiean, so it makes a lot of sense some will join Shaido.  I just thought the Shaido tossed away all their aiel beliefs rather quickly and without question.  At least maybe some more Shaido should of been disgusted what they were doing and switched sides, but the book said only some maidens came over.

[TomeTraveler]

Through all Randland, Light as well as Dark, it seems that "leadership" is based not so much on convincing others to follow you by persuasion and example, but rather browbeating those around you until they obey without question. While you could consider this a knock on the forces of Light, the followers of the Dark are even worse--at least the Light faction cooperates among themselves to drive back the Dark, whereas the darkfriends and Forsaken are all about personal power to the exclusion of everything else, at least when the Dark One isn't actually watching.

 

There are plenty of imperfections in the forces of Light, but the grass isn't even a pale green on the other side, it's completely withered.

 

[jsbrads]

It is very possible because everyone hates Shaido, that Shaido men have a much stronger in clan preference than typical Aiel. And Aiel are known for their in group preference.

Many Maidens stayed with the Shaido and Maidens have a immediate family group preference for Rand (especially after Couladin died). Family before Clan, Clan before Nation, Nation before Wetlander, Wetlander before OathBreaker. 

[Guest]

On 6/15/2019 at 3:07 PM, chadsummerchild said:

I started rooting for the dark one when people became stupidly self righteous or power thirsty, they either think they should lead the final war against the dark one or too busy playing the game of thrones to think about the real threat. I wanted to scream so much while reading Elayne and Eg’s paths to be leaders of their realms, sometimes because of their own stupidity, sometimes because of people around them.

 

I can empathize with you about some things in Elayne and Egwene's arcs. Hell, in lots of characters' arcs. But I can't see how being a darkfriend is a viable response to the repulsion you feel at self-righteousness or thirst for power. Darkfriends are every bit as unethical as the worst Whitecloak or non-BA Aes Sedai, they pose no real alternative to being for the Light. Not if you care about being a decent human in Randland, that is. And since your critique seems to arise from the desire to not be morally hypocritical, how does turning to the Dark solve this? It doesn't. To me, this embracing the Dark stuff just comes off as its own form of self-righteousness.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Guest
spelling/grammar

[Zorlon]

On 6/16/2019 at 2:32 PM, Sabio said:

Shaido were considered the most dishonorable clan, but just seems like they tossed away all their beliefs rather quickly.  Taking wetlanders captive etc...

It was bad enough with the names of some of the Trolloc clans, but the bad guy Aiel clan being the one with a name one consonant(or one vowel, depending upon how you read it) away from Shadow, surely I can cannot be the only fan who had to roll their eyes at just how on the nose that was.

 

Only thing worse, in fiction, which I can think of off the top of my head is Worm Tongue turning out to be exactly what you would expect someone named Worm Tongue to be. Why did anyone in Rohan ever consider that guy's havering to be worth a listening?

 

What was this thread about again? Oh, whatever, guess I'll go yell at some clouds. You know they were much better at looking like things back in my day, also why they gotta be looking like things? Rabbits are supposed to be little white things hopping through the fields and forests, not giant white things floating in the sky. What day is this?

 

::wanders off grumpily::

Edited August 3, 2019 by Zorlon

[The Gambler Matrim]

I wouldn't have turned to the Shadow but I like Lanfear and can't stand Egwene.