Forsaken Pre-age of legends?

[baalzamon]

If the forsaken are from the age of legends, which we know to be true, then how can ishy remeber fighting the dragon countless times since the beginning of time? he is the only one who mentions it. i dont think any of the other forsaken mention it. ishy remembers is as early as the prologue of tEotW so i dont think it has to do with him being crazy. I can only think the forsaken may be reborn, like the heroes of the ages, and in each age become evil. what do you guys think? also was there a dragon/dark one fight pre-bore?

[Beowolf]

Ishy doesn't remember the fight, he just knows(or believes) it took place.

[baalzamon]

yeah, by remember i dont mean like mat but remember it took place. he is the only one that really comments on it. also i just realized the reborn evil theory doesn't work, because, wouldn't the dark one reincarnate them with the memories the same way he does in the third age.

[Beowolf]

We do have a Wheel of Time on our hands here. If the Wheel has spun countless times, and the Age has always been the same(or almost the same), then it makes sense for the same battle to have taken place countless times...

[baalzamon]

then why is ishy the only one that remembers it?

[Silver]

he doesn't. he was a philosopher and theologian in the AoL so he believes they've had many fights

[Guest Barmacral]

You must remember, Ishy is a liar, its very possible that he's just trying to demoralize Rand.

[Silver]

no, i'm pretty sure he thinks he's telling the truth. of course, he is partially insane

[Beckon]

RJ was asked once whether darkfriends could be Taveren and he said he didn't really think The Pattern would do that since Taveren are its way of correcting itself.

 

Ishy is just playing at being the DO, he does it non-stop up until Rand "kills" him in the Stone.

[Naudran Grimnir]

Ishamael was a renowned philospher & theologian in the AoL. He came to the conclusion that the battle has been fought countless times through the ages (due to the way that the Wheel was structured).

 

Herrid Fel basically came to the same conclusion in LoC chp 18, where he was talking about the bore and how it should be fixed (not patched) and how the DO should be forgotten before the next AoL comes again.

[Trib4l]

Part of Ishy's frustration in the one prologue (fisher game) is that he feels he has a right to the knowledge of his previous incarnations. I think he's aware that Rand has LTT's knowledge and considers it an unfair advantage that Rand should be able to draw on that old knowledge and he himself cannot.

 

Imagine thinking that you have your enemy cornered, and then suddenly your enemy whips out the BFG9000 and smokes you not once, but three times. The third time he kills you, and you're seriously ticked when brought back from the dead since he suddenly has an advantage that you don't - knowledge from a very skilled past life.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Also, Ishamael has chats with the Dark One from time to time, and he certainly remembers the previous fights. He may well have told Ishamael, or at least, confirmed Ishy's philosophically based conclusions.

[Telcar]

Ah I can't remember right now but someone said that the Creator and the Dark One have been fighting since the beginning of time (or at least for a long time :P ) using human surrogates, Rand is the Champion of the light who is reborn again and again, maybe Ishamael is the Dark One's champion who is reborn again and again?

[BrainFireBob]

Ishamael would certainly like to think so, maybe the DO even told him so, but no, I don't think the Wheel would allow it- hence the DO needing to use a "survival of the fittest" regime to find a counter to the Dragon.