The Founding of Quahog (Peter's Progress) Mafia - Game Over

[BFG]

I'm pretty sure I covered at least some of that last night

 

I don't believe his reaction to eod1

 

I don't believe that he'd have me as anything as null from the first half of day 1 yet he's 'withholding a read' which implies something (contrast with his null read on Cory in the bt game for low participation, or how he treats his scum reads in that game)

 

Chris understands my mafia game better than anyone else playing this game. There are now things in thread that fundamentally conflict with my approach to playing as mafia that he's apparently ignoring in favour of a relatively shallow 'low impact' read

[Shad_]

Any take on who his partner would be?

 

Presumably this game could be over in 48 hours. I recognize it still feels early but it's kind of crunch time. I'm being massively hypocritical right now by taking the night off but, what's your broad perspective on the game thinking in those terms?

[BFG]

I guess the best I can do is say that the last time I was up against scum!chris was on PerC in a lovers game. I called/voted him scum early on (i think the only game I've actually voted him as svum rather than Poe, if ever) because his read on me was wrong for the state of the thread. He bussed day 1 and sounded good for the rest of the game so I dropped it and lost :(

 

I'm trying to figure out if this is that game again, or if he's genuinely misreading me for the first time in 2(?) years in a game I'm not ~completely absent in

[BFG]

Any take on who his partner would be?

 

Presumably this game could be over in 48 hours. I recognize it still feels early but it's kind of crunch time. I'm being massively hypocritical right now by taking the night off but, what's your broad perspective on the game thinking in those terms?

verb/tiinker would be the easy answer, but I don't know is the more honest answer

[Clovdyx]

I'm pretty sure I covered at least some of that last night

 

I don't believe his reaction to eod1

 

I don't believe that he'd have me as anything as null from the first half of day 1 yet he's 'withholding a read' which implies something (contrast with his null read on Cory in the bt game for low participation, or how he treats his scum reads in that game)

 

Chris understands my mafia game better than anyone else playing this game. There are now things in thread that fundamentally conflict with my approach to playing as mafia that he's apparently ignoring in favour of a relatively shallow 'low impact' read

 

I wasn't sure if you meant that or you were talking about my posts from today. 

[Clovdyx]

I guess the best I can do is say that the last time I was up against scum!chris was on PerC in a lovers game. I called/voted him scum early on (i think the only game I've actually voted him as svum rather than Poe, if ever) because his read on me was wrong for the state of the thread. He bussed day 1 and sounded good for the rest of the game so I dropped it and lost :(

 

I'm trying to figure out if this is that game again, or if he's genuinely misreading me for the first time in 2(?) years in a game I'm not ~completely absent in

 

How caught up are you?  And

[Clovdyx]

Good talk.

[Shad_]

Ultimately the two of you aren't bussing, or if you are you're pulling it off beautifully and deserve the payout, so whether what's failing to click here is a matter of alignments or not we need a great deal more input from Verb, Tiink, and Ben.

[Gentled Ben]

 

Mindset. I like it. Not for you? You do you.

 

No, giving an active player a D1 pass is never for me. Why would you do that?

 

 

I'll look at it again, might have missed some context

Earlier he said that he was leaning scum and would adjust if you posted more townie. That seems fine.

 

"You're mafia. Please lynch mafia and act like town." Not so much?

 

I can try to reread it again on lunch, but it seemed really inconsistent with the read he was presenting when I saw it.

 

That's not what I said. Do not put words in my mouth, especially within quotation marks like that. 

 

@ Ben what is your read on Clovdyx?

Slight scum lean.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Happily town after the previous debacle.

yes.

Is this to me?

That was at the start of the game though?

Yep. And?

 

I find that first posts can be useful. He hasn't pinged hard in a mafia way so far so I'm fine with leaving him to tomorrow to dig into.

 

Plus it was a very funny gif. Gotta give props.

 

And what use is a flavor gif? How does that help you read someone as town or wolf, much less to the point that you will not reconsider them for the entire day, the only day on which we begin with no information at all? Why refuse to collect information on a day when there is none at all? 

 

I mean Shad isn't lock clear but I ain't lynching him today.

That's lock clear, Turin, whether for a phase or an entire game, that's lock clear. Why would you lock clear someone over a gif? You say he hasn't pinged you since then, but you had already given him a pass for the entire day based on a cartoon picture, so how much pinging are you likely to pick up on?

 

While your focus has been off of Shad, you must have developed some insightful reads on the rest of us. Will you share them, please?

 

 

At he moment very confused lol

 

Before I forget completely Tiinker, did you eplain who was dropping hard reads at the time you talked about meta? (Shad asked so i'm assuming there's an answer I haven't seen, but I don't want to forget)

 

I don't really follow the town read on Ben, currently his response to Shad reads a lot like his response to Liz _in as much as I remember) he accounts for the new info the 'if' argument this game, but it hasn't appeared to change anything, based on current VC

I haven't seen any new info to change my view. What has he done since I said that that should sway me from scum to town or even to null? Why should that sway me? What do you think it means that I haven't been swayed by that? Why?

 

 

@Turin: Maybe you didn't see this before, as it might have been on the broken page. Can you address these questions, please? Thanks.

[Shad_]

I don't know if there are claims still to be had, but it's at least worth considering a reveal at some point if we're in agreement that we could be at mylo.

[Shad_]

oh hi ben hah

[Shad_]

Also I'm reading WoT and I think a part of me was subconsciously Egwene addressing the Hall when I wrote that. :nerd:

[Shad_]

@ Ben if you are town you need to start the readjustment now, because I don't intend for us to lose this game over a nearly-intro-phase tunnel. Ask me what you need to ask me and let's walk through it and get your head back on the right track. I don't want to hear a bunch of "I can't trust anything you say because wolves can say anything" crap. That's not really how Mafia works and everyone has a limit to their scum range; that's why players get to be as good as confirmed villagers before there are any flips on the table. See: Sooh. If you have any intention of voting me in this game in the future, talk to me until you don't.

[Gentled Ben]

Ultimately the two of you aren't bussing, or if you are you're pulling it off beautifully and deserve the payout, so whether what's failing to click here is a matter of alignments or not we need a great deal more input from Verb, Tiink, and Ben.

Ben sleeps all day on the weekends, and there wasn't much activiity last night. I was still waiting for Turin to answer the post that I just quoted again now. Now I am up, and I'm picking up where I left off.

 

While you're here though, you voted Darthe, then two posts later said that you, Darthe, Turin, and Tiink were probably all villagers, yet you camped your vote on Darthe and thought it was funny that you lynched the doctor. How is that progression town for you? What about Turin's play makes you think he is town? I notice that Sooh (RIP and yay! We were on the same team for a change) asked him and he ignored it. 

[Gentled Ben]

@ Ben if you are town you need to start the readjustment now, because I don't intend for us to lose this game over a nearly-intro-phase tunnel. Ask me what you need to ask me and let's walk through it and get your head back on the right track. I don't want to hear a bunch of "I can't trust anything you say because wolves can say anything" crap. That's not really how Mafia works and everyone has a limit to their scum range; that's why players get to be as good as confirmed villagers before there are any flips on the table. See: Sooh. If you have any intention of voting me in this game in the future, talk to me until you don't.

Okay, let's start with why townShad would begin that way. Go.

[Clovdyx]

I don't know if there are claims still to be had, but it's at least worth considering a reveal at some point if we're in agreement that we could be at mylo.

 

I would highly encourage anyone with information that can be used to solve claim today.  If somebody has some sort of role that can stop the game from ending if we mislynch, for the love of God, don't claim.

[Shad_]

Turin literally claimed that he is Sooh's lover and will die at EoD. He is either a villager telling the truth, a wolf telling the truth, or fully outed himself for no reason and will be speed lynched tomorrow. There's nothing further to consider regarding his alignment in this game.

[Clovdyx]

 

Ultimately the two of you aren't bussing, or if you are you're pulling it off beautifully and deserve the payout, so whether what's failing to click here is a matter of alignments or not we need a great deal more input from Verb, Tiink, and Ben.

Ben sleeps all day on the weekends, and there wasn't much activiity last night. I was still waiting for Turin to answer the post that I just quoted again now. Now I am up, and I'm picking up where I left off.

 

While you're here though, you voted Darthe, then two posts later said that you, Darthe, Turin, and Tiink were probably all villagers, yet you camped your vote on Darthe and thought it was funny that you lynched the doctor. How is that progression town for you? What about Turin's play makes you think he is town? I notice that Sooh (RIP and yay! We were on the same team for a change) asked him and he ignored it. 

 

 

Before you get any further, am I correct in assuming you haven't read the posts from this phase yet?

[Clovdyx]

Turin literally claimed that he is Sooh's lover and will die at EoD. He is either a villager telling the truth, a wolf telling the truth, or fully outed himself for no reason and will be speed lynched tomorrow. There's nothing further to consider regarding his alignment in this game.

 

Nevermind.

[Gentled Ben]

 

 

Ultimately the two of you aren't bussing, or if you are you're pulling it off beautifully and deserve the payout, so whether what's failing to click here is a matter of alignments or not we need a great deal more input from Verb, Tiink, and Ben.

Ben sleeps all day on the weekends, and there wasn't much activiity last night. I was still waiting for Turin to answer the post that I just quoted again now. Now I am up, and I'm picking up where I left off.

 

While you're here though, you voted Darthe, then two posts later said that you, Darthe, Turin, and Tiink were probably all villagers, yet you camped your vote on Darthe and thought it was funny that you lynched the doctor. How is that progression town for you? What about Turin's play makes you think he is town? I notice that Sooh (RIP and yay! We were on the same team for a change) asked him and he ignored it. 

 

 

Before you get any further, am I correct in assuming you haven't read the posts from this phase yet?

 

I have. I thought this phase had ended with Sooh's flip. Are we still on Night, then?

[Gentled Ben]

I have to shower and get ready for work. 

[Clovdyx]

I have. I thought this phase had ended with Sooh's flip. Are we still on Night, then?

 

 

No, it's day phase.  Turin claimed exactly what Shad said he did, and for exactly the reasons Shad said, I'm not sure there's any benefit to really questioning Turin.  Your question to him made me wonder if you didn't see the claim or if you did and had some reason to believe he was still worth checking out today.

[Shad_]

While you're here though, you voted Darthe, then two posts later said that you, Darthe, Turin, and Tiink were probably all villagers, yet you camped your vote on Darthe and thought it was funny that you lynched the doctor. How is that progression town for you? What about Turin's play makes you think he is town? I notice that Sooh (RIP and yay! We were on the same team for a change) asked him and he ignored it.

Ok.

 

The reason I took zero heat for lynching Crusher D1 last game is because it's a perfectly sound approach to villaging. If you don't have any solid leads on D1, someone still needs to die. I believe in clearing out the slot that has shown the least capacity to prove itself in these circumstances, and for me that was Darthe or Tiink. All things being equal, I literally preferred a Darthe lynch over a Tiink lynch for the simple fact that I had just driven a mislynch on Tiink as scum last game and would feel worse about him flipping town. Moreover, Tiink was beginning to provide a little content where Darthe had not, and while both are fairly difficult reads (for me at least), Darthe is not a remotely straight shooter and the possibility existed that his game would never change from what he had presented to that point, whereas Tiink is guaranteed to make some direct game-related posts moving forward.  On top of that, I do remember Tiink boasting about how he would have tried harder if he was scum last game, and while that's a garbage reason to give anyone a pass (you might recall that I exploited the same reasoning to take heat off LZM), there's still an element of truth to it that inclined me to give him a bit of a pass.

 

I actually called the Darthe vote pretty early in the phase when things seemed to be moving slowly.  I said something to the effect of "so are we just going to lynch Darthe or what?"  He was, in essence, the default as things stood.

 

I thought it was funny after the fact because DM has a very long history of lynching doctors.  (Remember when I commented a while ago on how appropriate it was that the one old game you played in you got lynched D1 as the doc?)  It happens here constantly.  It's funny to me.  I've played enough Mafia to not really care that we lost a valuable PR on D1.  That's something I think it might be hard to appreciate when you're newer to the game; you get miffed when you see a tool like that flushed down the tubes.  The longer you play the more you'll just get used to it.  I tend to view games as Mountainous by default and take any PR as a nice little extra on the side, not that I don't get highly engrossed in set-up spec when it becomes relevant. 

[Tiinker]

Vote Count

 

Shad_ - 1 - Gentled Ben

Turin Turambar - 1 - Tiinker

Tiinker - 1 - Turin Turambar

Darthe - 2 - Sooh, Shad_

No Lynch - 1 - BFG

 

5 to lynch

 

Deadline in 4 minutes

 

 

Not voting: Verbal, Darthe, Clov.

 

Trying to make sense of this lynch is not easy. I feel like it gives us such useless information. I can't even blame Shad for the outcome because a random lynch between 4 targets with one person on each train would be soo bad. I'm wariest of Verb and Clov for not voting and BFG for voting no lynch which imo is a bad play almost always unless you're near end game. The way that whole thing progressed just made it look like scum were just waiting around rather than actually trying to do anything. 

[Shad_]

then two posts later said that you, Darthe, Turin, and Tiink were probably all villagers, yet you camped your vote on Darthe

I skipped this.

 

I don't see a conflict here. DADV is a thing. Wagon complacency often suggests that no one is concerned about protecting one of the viable lynches (especially in a situation that stagnant. If it's a runaway train on a wolf, well, sometimes there's just nothing scum can do about that.) There are a lot of other factors involved, of course. Wolves could simply be afk, or taking a gamble (a highly attentive wolf could have predicted that I would vote Darthe closer to DL), or may have intended to vote but I beat them to it, etc. It clears no one, but it's worth considering. It didn't mean I had a better option than Darthe. I suppose I could have unvoted and let it go random between two nulls, a village read, and myself, but that's stupid.