The Founding of Quahog (Peter's Progress) Mafia - Game Over

[Sooh]

Do you ever have a good scum lean on D1?  I usually don't.

I usually have a scum lean of sorts.

 

Now I have nothing.

 

I have a few towns, that's all.

[Shad_]

 

Do you ever have a good scum lean on D1? I usually don't.

Sometimes, sometimes I feel better about more people which gives me a more solid Poe

 

I basically call everyone a villager all phase and then lynch the person I said it towards the least.

[BFG]

Sorry back in ~30 minutes, I'll try to condense thoughts by then

[Shad_]

[v]Darthe[/v]

[Andrej]

Vote Count

 

Shad_ - 1 - Gentled Ben

Turin Turambar - 1 - Tiinker

Tiinker - 1 - Turin Turambar

Darthe - 2 - Sooh, Shad_

 

5 to lynch

 

Deadline in ~1 hour

[Sooh]

Wow. 

 

Not much that says this is final hour before lynch.

[Gentled Ben]

@Ben - I will concede that is not verbatim what you wrote. I wasn't trying to suggest it was - the quotation marks were to illustrate the difference between how I r3ad your post vs what Shad was arguing.

Okay, fair enough. Thank you.

 

@Ben your read on Shad is that he's probably scum for continuing to push a scum read on you when he hasn't done so (unless counting the joke scum together posts)

 

You didn't like the 'fake read you' comment but acknowledged the if

 

You said his word choice is subtly against you (which I need to check for, but at the time you gave it most of what Shad said was either pointing null or joking you were both scum) this is probably a reasonable assessment

 

your analysis of his scum game doesn't look like this game

 

You think he'd get more from claiming wolf as town than mafia, but scum read him while that was the majority of his content (i actually liked that since it looked like it was a contradiction but probably wasn't and your play seemed cleaner last game)

Indeed, Shad pushed a fake scum read on me, and that in turn gave me a scum read on him, and he has since dropped the push but done nothing else to change my vote.

 

Yes, and?

 

At the time I gave it, he was doing more than joking about scum QT, and joking about scum QT is not what I said was a subtle word choice against me. I'm sure the post is still there somewhere. Please go reread it if it's an integral part of your read on me.

 

It does to me, and besides, he didn't ask me to analyze this game, and if he did, I misunderstood. He's free to clarify that for me. What I understood him to ask me was to analyze his prior scum game, which I did, and I can see correlations between the two, even if you cannot.

 

Yes, and the vote didn't come until he continued to press me out of joke range and start using the subtle word choices (examples of which I provided when I made the accusation). I suppose that when  I am a wolf, I am playing a cleaner game. If I'm not, I'm getting lynched pretty early (see Cory's D1 takedown of me when I had a lazy approach in the Tainted Minds game or how obvious I was when I subbed back into the tenis libre game as a wolf and contrast it with more successful games like WoT Kids or the last one). Then look at some town games and see how wolfy people think I look. Is my play in those games clean? Which does this game most resemble, my scum game or my town game? Why?

 

 

I haven't seen any new info to change my view. What has he done since I said that that should sway me from scum to town or even to null? Why should that sway me? What do you think it means that I haven't been swayed by that? Why?

I do question whether you have an actual vision of what would "sway you" or if it's just tunnel vision.

 

 

I do. I want to see you digging into this game. We are 27 pages in, approaching DL, and no one stands out as clearly scum while we have an MIA Darthe and a guy who gave a pass on D1 to a player for opening the game with a gif post. I feel like I am the only person you have focused on, first as a scum target, then later as a probably town read or whatever you're reading me as now while you mitigate some of what the other players say about me (which is soothing my feelings, so right on for that, but if you hadn't started it in the first place, there'd be nothing to soothe, so meh). To be fair though, I've never seen you play town. I've only played in your modded games and seen you sub in as wolf and rand wolf with me at the start of a game. Perhaps this is your town game, but I don't have that meta to draw on, so I am just going by what I see in this game. 

 

 

I don't really follow the town read on Ben, currently his response to Shad reads a lot like his response to Liz _in as much as I remember) he accounts for the new info the 'if' argument this game, but it hasn't appeared to change anything, based on current VC

Is it really that similar? Ben's argument with Liz basically boiled down to a claim of miscommunication. Liz called him out for implying that Sooh was a villager, he voted her saying she was putting words in his mouth, some people explained the implications of his statement and he said oh well he didn't mean it that way. They mutually backed off and moved on.

 

Here he gave a coherent meta-based reason that fits the single instance he originally called out. I don't think his argument stands up in the broad scheme of things and his reluctance to adapt is weird to me, but there's a coherent thought process to it from start to finish (at worst he did a very good job of making the pieces fit on the fly).

 

Eh I'll concede you know last game far better than me even with wolf bias but the point isn't whether the arguments the same it's the reaction to ~new information. Last game he concluded that it was miscommunication but left his vote because we were still 'scummy', wasn't able to see how he'd have adapted that read during the game :P but this seems similar. Following your argument he seemed to concede most of the reasons he thinks you're scum, but still has you as scummy

 

His read on me also seems early

 

No, I conceded that he was offering an either/or example that I had been mistaking, and that I had been wrong to keep pressing about that. My scum read on him is built around more than that.

 

Well, it's early in the game, so I dont' have a later read on anyone. When is a good time to read you? You are playing exactly the way you have played each time I have seen you play town, and the one time I saw you play wolf, you did not ask all these questions of everyone, and it did not take you long to begin, so it did not take me long to make a quick read. You aren't confusing me town lean on you with a lock clear, are you? A cake picture is not as good as a funny gif. I can't give you a D1 pass, but I can have a town lean on you, can't I?

 

@Ben can you point out where I was showing signs of paranoia, and where Shad was word slugging against you? :)

I probably could, but paranoia might not be as good a descriptor as ceaselessly interrogative, which seems like paranoia because you question everything. I must say though, that I'm disappointed that you seem to clearly remember the post in which I said he is crafting his words to color me in an unfavorable light, yet you do not recall that I used examples in that.very.post.

 

Gimme a minute, and I'll go find that post for you. I know how tiring it can be to ISO someone.

[Sooh]

Every time you say "sooth" I think you're talking about me 

[Shad_]

Me Turin Tiink and Darthe are probably all villagers lol

[BFG]

Ok ben I actually appreciate the change in terminology. What you origally said is nyns description of my town game

 

I also appreciate you pulling the post, I'm phone posting with intermittent signal until I lose battery

[Gentled Ben]

 

 

 

 

@Cory: Well-played.

 

@Sooh: Are we finally on the same team? 

Possibly.

 

Could it be, though? I thought we were destined to always be opposites.

 

 

Destiny be damned, someday we will be town together in a game in which we are not mercilessly pitted as opponents in a senseless tennis match, and I want that day to be now!

 

Cream cheese icing, I have to add some decorations... The sugar in the caramel didn't dissolve fully, so I need something to disguise :(

I was going to say that you could try to make little raisin flies (not sure what you would make the wings from) eating the undissolved sugar, but then I saw you made the cobweb, which is amazing and almost a mindmeld considering the thought I had about flies.

 

 

 

 

Ben you randed wolf again.

Close...I randed dog, but he's town.

 

I'm not a fan of Family Guy, either. I watched a few episodes the first season, and while the baby was funny, the show just couldn't hook me, which is odd, because I liked Married with Children (until they added the little kid) and the first several seasons of The Simpsons.

I liked this last night, it's a little awkward sounding but the thought process seems quite convoluted if mafia

 

I'm less certain today, there's more of a gap between shads post and bens response than I realised yesterday and the follow on exchange still reads oddly

 

It's when I get up in the mornings (check the time on this post, for instance), so it was an immediate response from me, a shot from the hip, regardless of the time difference in the posts.

 

 

 

 

Shad overselling. Not sure what that means yet. Might just mean I'm hungry.

I’ve only seen him be a wolf, so I’m not sure what his town game looks like. The two times I saw him play wolf, he didn’t joke about it, but that doesn’t mean it’s outside of his range. I think townShad benefits more from this nonsense than scumShad does, but that doesn’t mean he’s town.

So what's your actual read on Shad?

 

It was scum until one of the last posts I read. Now it's null (pretty sure I quoted the townie post at or towards the end of this wall, but if not, prod me if I forget, and I'll go find it and explain why it pushed me back to null on him).

 

 

 

 

 

I mean I got that impression on p1 and kind of liked it; the post Chris quoted was odd in an obvious sort of way considering I had just spent a page or two openly claiming I was a wolf with Ben.

 

Not really in a good or bad way, just left me thinking "huh?"

Tldr, The post you were 'huh' on was Chris asking darthe to explain? And you liked darthe pg1?

This might be it, but that's not how I (finally) took it. I thought he was saying I quoted him saying he expected more of a response, and that was because Ben's reaction was 'huh - he had spent several.pages claiming scum with him, and Ben had little reaction to it.

 

I concede I could be entirely off

Shad called Ben a wolf then Ben 'didn't react' the several pages of scum claiming came after?

 

But I didn't really follow the train of thought :(

 

Denying that I'm a wolf is not a reaction?

 

 

 

I liked this last night, it's a little awkward sounding but the thought process seems quite convoluted if mafia

That was one of Ben's strong points as Mafia last game--his ability to give an unorthodox reaponse and stick to it under inquery. Not sure the extent to which that applies here sans coffee and a shower but my thought in the moment was it was NAI.

 

 

Don't like the shade here. If you were trying to get a reaction out of me other than what you received, you could just as easily have said so. Instead, you called my response "unorthodox." How is it unorthodox? You connect unorthodox responses with my mafia game, then anticipate that I will stick with my response (because why wouldn't I?)  and call that scummy too before pretending to back off with a backhanded note that without being awake yet, it looks NAI. This makes the entire exchange that you started with me feel like a set up and puts you into the scum pile for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I must be bad at this, im taking the guy at face value

 

In all seriousness though, I want to hear Darthe's explanation for this.  I have no trouble believing that he could actually be doing it as town, but I'm fairly confident I saw Shad do something ~similar as scum in another game (though I can't for the life of me think of what it was).

 

Same goes for Verb.

 

 

My explanation is:  why bother as a townie?  What good does it do?  For other townies, it draws unnecessary attention, and for scum it draws mostly the same.  I can't see a solid reason for doing this as a townie, but I DO see a solid reason for doing it as scum - TWTBAW.  It was just my initial take on it.

 

I'll admit that since then Shad seems to be doing more "ordinary" posting in an effort to appear town.

 

I agree with Verbal here. My initial thought when he started calling us both wolves was, "Whoa, why is he doing this?" and then I figured he must be town with me and wants to see if I freak out in order to be sure that he is town with me, but after you disagreed with my assessment that he gains more as town by that (knowledge of a town!Ben), I started looking at it more from a wolf perspective, and it makes more sense to do it as wolf, both from TWTBAW angle and as ammo to set me up for a mislynch, either early if town gets after me or later if it can be associated with other little things. Then he started sounding more town, which actually is NAI, since if he's town, you would assume that at some point, he's going to look like it, and if he's scum, at some point, he's going to try to blend in. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ /spoiler]

 

 

 

 

 

Sooh, I'm wondering why you didn't ask anything of Ben when he softclaimed Brian, who would be the jester.

 

I'm not obsessed with the jester. I am very curious about your words/actions regarding it. Feels a bit like Mafia "hunting" 3p, but not really putting effort into it.

Why would Brian be the jester?

 

what?

Giyf

 

In the episode this game is based on Brian is the court jester mentioned in the game OP.

 

That's not in the OP though, right?

 

I also thought I made it clear that I don't watch this show.

 

Also 3p hunting is like the least important thing now and I don't get why you think I'm hunting for any 3p through my banging my head against the wall thinking Shad was jester last night. If that was at all important to me as scum, why would I not just get him NKed at the first opportunity? Regardless if he is 3p or town I'd be one step closer to parity, and it wouldn't matter to me in the least if he was 3p or no. That's basically only important to scum if there's a vig.

 

I don't get your line of thinking.

 

 

Turin is spot on here. Brian is a jester on the show, and I am Brian in this game, but my role is not that of a jester. Because I am Brian and I am not a jester in the context of mafia gaming, there probably is no jester in this game, since he would most likely make Brian the jester if he was going to have a game jester. 

 

I did not realize how many flavor quotes I added to this wall. In hindsight, just this final one would have been sufficient. Sorry about that.

 

 

@ Tiink I wouldn't get hung up on meta chats if you aren't comfortable with them.  Just try to look beyond the commentary to what people are actually doing with it. 

 

I've kind of mastered the art of being vocally useless via meta blabber on D1s and I think it's why no one ever suspects me until a game has progressed a bit.  Am I using it to develop reads or to look busy?  Ask yourself questions like that and see what you come up with.

And this is the townie post that pushed Shad back to null for me. It's too early to tell whether he's producing reads or looking busy, but I think it's a risky play to draw attention to it as a wolf, and he was more cautious than this in the two games I saw him play a wolf.

 

 

Right now, my strongest town read is BFG because of her early attempts to solve by poking at everything the way town BFG does, and my strongest scum read is Shad for things discussed earlier in this post, so I'll drop my early vote on him since using it to pressure anyone else would obviously be a plot to pressure them, having already discussed Shad's potential wolf equity despite a null read on him. 

[v]Shad[/v]

 

There you go, I bolded the relevant information.

 

Also, looking back, I see that while you are questioning other people, you seem to be focused on me, and you keep getting things wrong, like "Shad called Ben a wolf then Ben 'didn't react' the several pages of scum claiming came after?"  Why? If you are that focused on me, I would expect you to have some clarity as to what I have been saying. You should be clear on whatever it is that keeps bringing your attention back to me, but instead, I keep getting sloppy paraphrases and requests to rehash what you've already apparently misread. 'sup with that? 

 

Sorry for all the bold. I copied a quote that was in bold, and now everything is in bold.

[Sooh]

Me Turin Tiink and Darthe are probably all villagers lol

You think you're town?

[Gentled Ben]

Did I break the page again?

[Sooh]

... yes.

[Gentled Ben]

Good. She should have looked all that up herself.

[Sooh]

 

Me Turin Tiink and Darthe are probably all villagers lol

You think you're town?

 

Let me ask it another way as well

 

If you've cleared you 4. Who are your mafia?

[Shad_]

@ Ben humor the probability that if I am a wolf I could not care less what your read is on me right now.

[Shad_]

Did you just break another page Ben?

[BFG]

Chris is giving me pause atm. Nothing he's saying is 'wrong' which is completely null but I don't really get a sense of focus(?) from him

 

His null read on me, yes he reads me from interactions, he also reads me when I'm playing a game he isn't. At that point I'm not really expecting a read as I hadn't done much, but avoiding making one seems odd

[Gentled Ben]

And how is Darthe a villager? Is checking in and then peacing out a town tell?

[Shad_]

Beeeeeen

[Sooh]

Shad, focus on my questions pls.

[Shad_]

Thus is even less possible to read on a cellphone haha

[Gentled Ben]

HAHAHAHA I'm all riled up and feisty now.

 

Sorry, but seriously though, why town on Darthe?

[Shad_]

 

Me Turin Tiink and Darthe are probably all villagers lol

You think you're town?

Gun to head