The Mafia Parable: Basic Game OVER

Gentled Ben · August 14, 2017

I also will require teh admonishment...

[v] Marsh [/v]

Wait, did you really just flip to Marsh with a "lulz" comment after banging the drum for Rand for two days? Just because BFG subs in out of nowhere and votes Marsh? Is this something you discussed in mafia QT and didn't expect the rest of us to see, or what? Why not Rand after all his faux outrage and his logical disastrophe? Where's your case on Marsh? You switched your vote because you just want an admonishment? Dude...

He's been dropping hints all day that he was scum reading me. Just got drowned out in his tunnel on Rand

I've probably been focusing on his Rand tunnel too, so I might have missed it. We all have bias. :unsure:

Gentled Ben · August 14, 2017

I only noticed the Rand arguments and that he would switch to Sooh to consolidate if necessary.

Sooh seems to be a consensus scum read for having all of one vote, but I know that's already been pointed out.

Ironeyes · August 14, 2017

I also will require teh admonishment...

[v] Marsh [/v]

Wait, did you really just flip to Marsh with a "lulz" comment after banging the drum for Rand for two days? Just because BFG subs in out of nowhere and votes Marsh? Is this something you discussed in mafia QT and didn't expect the rest of us to see, or what? Why not Rand after all his faux outrage and his logical disastrophe? Where's your case on Marsh? You switched your vote because you just want an admonishment? Dude...

He's been dropping hints all day that he was scum reading me. Just got drowned out in his tunnel on Rand

I've probably been focusing on his Rand tunnel too, so I might have missed it. We all have bias.

Here are two examples:

For the sake of consolidation and self preservation, I'm willing to look at Marsh and Sooh for the lynch.

Marsh because I've seen him coast as scum before and because his reversal on Rand feels like coasting to me, along with the fact that he hasn't taken a hard side on anything.

Sooh because she hasn't pinged me at all - and that's because she also dod not take sides on anything.

The Clov slot should be resolved by BFG, so I'm fine with letting her play that out. Nyn and Verb should move toward resolution for me today with their votes and comments.

Holy crap, I was expecting like ten pages of stuff to catch up on when I got back, but then there's this... I'm pretty sure the deadline is in like two hours, which is when I'll be taking a final. So I'll [v]Sooh[/v]. I said she'd have a chance to convince me my initial read was wrong, but this isn't a convincing action.

@Ironeyes sure, but reasons were already given to why Hallia was scum you were piling on more reasons. One such reason was: if she flips town it's still good for town is not compelling it doesn't make much sense to me. I am paraphrasing of course it was more along the lines of if hallia is lynched we get to know nyn alignment, so what is nyns alignment Ironeyes? To me it looks like setting up mislynches. #foundscum

[v] Ironeyes [/v]

How much experience do you have playing this game? I ask because this is the kind of post I expect from someone with three games or less under their belt. You are misrepresenting what I said: I never claimed we would "know" Nyn's alignment. I said I would lean a certain way based on the flip. Therefore, my read on Nyn became closer to scum because Hallia was town. It would have gone the opposite way if Hallia had been scum.

Also. I don't set up mislynches as scum. Ask anyone who's ever played with me. Or look in my sig for a summary of my meta, courtesy of Chris. I'm more interested in self-preservation as scum and will try to be everyone's friend. Going out on a limb to say something I know people aren't going to like is more in line with my town game.

Marsh (think it was you ) when you voted hallia you said you've seen her tune out as scum before, how much experience do you have with town/mafia Hallia?

I've played at least two games with her as each in the last year or so. Unfortunately my memory for game titles is awful so I'd have to do some research to tell you which ones.

I agree with the coasting part of your description (said it myself above) but I disagree about the not setting up mislynches part as any scum member is depended on to get townies lynched, and the only way you could avoid doing that is by not voting at all. So really, you're just parsing out different levels of subtlety.

I also disagree with your assessment of SK - I was thinking that he's(?) played quite a bit based on his observations. He'll have to answer that, but I'm certiain we're talking more than three games.

The thing is, I usually work toward my wincon by throwing support behind town-driven mislynches. I don't try to hint and manipulate the town the way some power scum players will, I just take what opportunities they give me. That's the difference I'm trying to point out.

The thing is, SK took a point Nyn already made (and I already responded to) and acted like it's a revelation. That seems n00b-ish to me.

Okay, I've seen you be nice and subtle before - you and dice did a great job of that a few games ago. And I think that's the point here - anyone could imply if it's X vs. Y and both call each other scum, if X is town, Y must = scum. But the idea here is that it was an emotionally laden argument to begin with. Nyn is obviously testy this game, so the possibility of it being town on town violence is high, especially in light of the entire thing being based on past meta and D1 assumptions (vs. actual evidence).

I think reading between the lines vs. being obtuse is what is being discussed here, which I feel like plays a bit more into "be everybody's friend" scum meta than not.

Ironeyes · August 14, 2017

Why the heck am I defending cases on myself...?

Gentled Ben · August 14, 2017

Why the heck am I defending cases on myself...?

Because you and Rand, as a team, have decided that your best strategy is too appear to be too incompetent as scum to actually be scum? :unsure:

Ironeyes · August 14, 2017

Why the heck am I defending cases on myself...?

Because you and Rand, as a team, have decided that your best strategy is too appear to be too incompetent as scum to actually be scum?

That technique is referred to as "too scummy to be scum" and it fails every time.

In reverse, people occasionally make cases based on the "too towny to be town" concept, where they claim that a certain super-towny player is scum because they have yet to make a mistake, therefore they're watching themselves too closely and must be scum. That's usually bogus too.

Ironeyes · August 14, 2017

Truth is I just hate misrepresentation, be it of myself or another player. So when I see someone making a statement I know is wrong, I can't help but offer a counterargument, even if I end up arguing for my own lynch.

RandA lThor · August 14, 2017

[snipped]

I was going to say that if consolidation is needed on my end, Sooh would be the next reasonable lynch option for me, but this slow vote building towards her is feeling bad to me, and is almost identical to what happened to Hally. Of course the initial train on Adella was bad too, so not a great example, but the way the train started on Hally (she was inactive, people missing out and putting their vote on her, etc.) is eerily similar. More on that later.

What slow building? Everyone and their little brother seems to be FOSing Sooh, and yet I'm the only vote on her. That, if anything, solidifies my determination to continue voting her. I strongly suspect that a sizeable portion of the sussing is just shade by teammates who have no intention of following through.

Verb also had his vote on Sooh, but good point, there were more FoSes than votes on Sooh, which seems very odd.

@Ironeyes sure, but reasons were already given to why Hallia was scum you were piling on more reasons. One such reason was: if she flips town it's still good for town is not compelling it doesn't make much sense to me. I am paraphrasing of course it was more along the lines of if hallia is lynched we get to know nyn alignment, so what is nyns alignment Ironeyes? To me it looks like setting up mislynches. #foundscum

[v] Ironeyes [/v]

Scummy

[v]Marsh[/v]

Towny

I also will require teh admonishment...

[v] Marsh [/v]

Scummy but less so.

1. Verbal32

2. Ironeyes

3. DreadPirateRoberts

4. ~~Clovdyx~~ BFG

5. Gentled Ben

7. Shitsure Kamimashita

9. Nynaeve

10. Sooh

12. RandA lThor

This is where I start feeling less town on you, literally like 1 or 2 of your posts above you say that DPR's vote is scummy, but then you place a town read on him? Not only the light orange one (btw def would change that, I'm not colorblind and I only noticed that when you pointed it out).

The first post was judging their votes, not the players. I disliked DPR's vote but I still have him as a light town. Lemme re-color that list for you.

1. Verbal32

3. DreadPirateRoberts

4. ~~Clovdyx~~ BFG

5. Gentled Ben

7. Shitsure Kamimashita

9. Nynaeve

10. Sooh

12. RandA lThor

That doesn't help the color haha, just make a bold change go like, mild scum is orange, medium scum is red, full scum is purple or something.

Why the heck am I defending cases on myself...?

Lol also my same question

Deadline's in like an hour so some consolidation has to happen at some point. Marsh is probably like 5th on my list of people I'd want to lynch, so I'd rather it not be him. Going to keep my vote on DPR because there's still a legitimate chance there. Anyone besides DPR, Ben, and Marsh here around DL that can help out? I know Verb's gone, Nyn's sleeping, BG's sleeping but I'm hoping for a SK or Sooh appearance

Ironeyes · August 14, 2017

Sooh subbed out. She isn't gonna be back.

1. Verbal32

3. DreadPirateRoberts

4. ~~Clovdyx~~ BFG

5. Gentled Ben

7. Shitsure Kamimashita

9. Nynaeve

10. Sooh

12. RandA lThor

Gentled Ben · August 14, 2017

Why the heck am I defending cases on myself...?

Because you and Rand, as a team, have decided that your best strategy is too appear to be too incompetent as scum to actually be scum?

That technique is referred to as "too scummy to be scum" and it fails every time.

In reverse, people occasionally make cases based on the "too towny to be town" concept, where they claim that a certain super-towny player is scum because they have yet to make a mistake, therefore they're watching themselves too closely and must be scum. That's usually bogus too.

I actually meant that tongue-in-cheek. That's really a thing?

Gentled Ben · August 14, 2017

Sooh subbed out. She isn't gonna be back.

1. Verbal32

3. DreadPirateRoberts

4. ~~Clovdyx~~ BFG

5. Gentled Ben

7. Shitsure Kamimashita

9. Nynaeve

10. Sooh

12. RandA lThor

What do your colors mean?

Ironeyes · August 14, 2017

1. Verbal32: Def town
4. ~~Clovdyx~~ BFG: Prob town
3. DreadPirateRoberts: Town lean
5. Gentled Ben: In the middle
7. Shitsure Kamimashita: Scum lean
9. Nynaeve: Prob scum
12. RandA lThor: Prob scum

10. Sooh: Def scum

Ironeyes · August 14, 2017

Why the heck am I defending cases on myself...?

Because you and Rand, as a team, have decided that your best strategy is too appear to be too incompetent as scum to actually be scum?

That technique is referred to as "too scummy to be scum" and it fails every time.

In reverse, people occasionally make cases based on the "too towny to be town" concept, where they claim that a certain super-towny player is scum because they have yet to make a mistake, therefore they're watching themselves too closely and must be scum. That's usually bogus too.

I actually meant that tongue-in-cheek. That's really a thing?

On occasion. Like I said, it inevitably fails.

Gentled Ben · August 14, 2017

Thanks for the color clarification.

Yeah, I can see why it would fail. :laugh:

Isn't softly setting up a mild second or third scum read a way that mafia uses in order to switch votes with some semblance of possibility. You know, like DPR just did? :unsure: They talked about that in my last game, how mafia will flip to their second scum read once someone else starts the train, and then say, "Oh, they were on my radar all along," and after they flip town, say "So-and-so started that train, not me."

I'm just learning as I go.

Ironeyes · August 14, 2017

Thanks for the color clarification.

Yeah, I can see why it would fail.

Isn't softly setting up a mild second or third scum read a way that mafia uses in order to switch votes with some semblance of possibility. You know, like DPR just did? They talked about that in my last game, how mafia will flip to their second scum read once someone else starts the train, and then say, "Oh, they were on my radar all along," and after they flip town, say "So-and-so started that train, not me."

I'm just learning as I go.

That's my personal favorite technique as scum. I let town create trains, then BS a reason to join the train.

Gentled Ben · August 14, 2017

Of course, what makes the game hard is that most of what mafia do, other than trip themselves, is stuff that town can do, too.

Ironeyes · August 14, 2017

Ben is steadily convincing me that he and DPR should be switched on my list :dry:

Nynaeve · August 14, 2017

[V]Vote: sooh[/v]

Gentled Ben · August 14, 2017

Thanks for the color clarification.

Yeah, I can see why it would fail.

Isn't softly setting up a mild second or third scum read a way that mafia uses in order to switch votes with some semblance of possibility. You know, like DPR just did? They talked about that in my last game, how mafia will flip to their second scum read once someone else starts the train, and then say, "Oh, they were on my radar all along," and after they flip town, say "So-and-so started that train, not me."

I'm just learning as I go.

That's my personal favorite technique as scum. I let town create trains, then BS a reason to join the train.

Well, that's what it looks like to me, but I don't want to be so focused on DPR that I miss other (or if I'm wrong about him, actual) wolves.

Nynaeve · August 14, 2017

Fell asleep... momentarily here but prolly going back to bed.

Gentled Ben · August 14, 2017

'sup, sleepwalker? :smile:

Nynaeve · August 14, 2017

'sup, sleepwalker?

Ok. You?

Gentled Ben · August 14, 2017

Hungry. I should cook something, but I'm stuck in front of the computer. #lifefail :tongue:

RandA lThor · August 14, 2017

Sooh subbed out. She isn't gonna be back.

1. Verbal32

3. DreadPirateRoberts

4. ~~Clovdyx~~ BFG

5. Gentled Ben

7. Shitsure Kamimashita

9. Nynaeve

10. Sooh

12. RandA lThor

I mean we don't know, she could try to come back while she's not subbed in for yet. Also, sweet, readable colors haha (though I think it'd make more color sense if you switched the pink and red, but whatevs)

Thanks for the color clarification.

Yeah, I can see why it would fail.

Isn't softly setting up a mild second or third scum read a way that mafia uses in order to switch votes with some semblance of possibility. You know, like DPR just did? They talked about that in my last game, how mafia will flip to their second scum read once someone else starts the train, and then say, "Oh, they were on my radar all along," and after they flip town, say "So-and-so started that train, not me."

I'm just learning as I go.

That's my personal favorite technique as scum. I let town create trains, then BS a reason to join the train.

This exactly, and its why I'm skeptical of people that hop onto trains like Hally the last day, and why i was scared about Sooh, but then Verb got off, but now Nyn got on. Def better than Hally yesterday though.

Ben is steadily convincing me that he and DPR should be switched on my list

Good lol, but ideally, you would switch me and DPR. Think about it this way, the only thing you still think I'm scum for is the swearing right?

[V]Vote: sooh[/v]

This is actually good because now we have 3 potential trains, and people have to actually vote what they think

Darthe · August 14, 2017

Oh hey you guys posted.

Thats nice, keept it up minions.

The Mafia Parable: Basic Game OVER

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