Sailor Moon Mafia [Advanced] Game Thread

[Sooh]

 

 

Something I need to ask myself once I've had sleep and brain is working at 100% but want to put out there;

 

Who benefits from killing Darthe? Why wouldn't they take out confirmed Linz?

ironeyes

 

especially if he thinks darthe's likely cop, could see shooting there because worried darthe would autopeek him

 

which darthe totally would, from my experience with him as cop

 

I haven't really liked any of his posts. When he first came in I felt like he needed some space and people were going a little heavy on him, but since then his posts make me cringe. Feel like he's super disingenuous. I think I'm going to ISO him and see if I can pull anything away from it.

 

To be fair, I have a very similar impression about you, only you just seem like a sloth who doesn't care about the game xD I do look forward to your posts today since it seems like you have a bit more effort.

 

Just to be clear, "his posts" means Ironeyes' posts here? Or Darthe's?

[bopolis]

sooh, im pretty sure she meant iron's posts because she dove into his iso shortly thereafter. also im anwsering for her becaquse i dont think shes awake.

[Clovdyx]

But it's like, all his moves are so obviously wolfy. I looked through and it has zero substance. Would a wolf really act like this? I just can't imagine thinking you could get away with posting like this.

Is Iron new to the game?

I feel bad because if he isn't a wolf I'm really confused by his approach. 

Maybe I'm a tryhard or something, but in either alignment he's not doing his job at all. 

He's not solving and not even seemingly covering his tracks.

I'm not trying to call him bad, in fact he sat in my neutral pile for a while and I even defended him because his early posts didn't seem to have enough there to read him either way. But looking at them all together, he hasn't done anything but push a scruff vote.

 

 

Churros.

[Sooh]

You could probably argue that my posts this game have had zero substance too, though I think I've prodded and poked enough to warrant something else. *shrug*

 

About to leave one hotel to go travelling some more before next hotel, so I'll be back in the evening. 

 

<3

[Clovdyx]

Since that's the third time I've dropped that reference this phase, and I know there are exactly two people this game that will get it, "churros" is a term affiliated with a guy from our (Cory/Lindsey/me) homesite named Chg91.  He was the guy that literally brought mafia to the forum.  He was viewed as a mafia god for the longest time, and he basically got to do whatever the hell he wanted.

 

There was one game that another strong player was nightkilled.  Somebody asked who it would incriminate.  An answer of Chg was given; the person that originally asked the question agreed but noted that it would be totally obvious and an amateur move.  would it really be THAT obvious?  And the line that was stated in response pretty much sums up mafia perfectly: "To be fair, it pretty much always has been."

 

Yes, mafia do weird things.  Sometimes they kill players for absolutely no reason that serve absolutely no purpose.  But more often than not, there is an agenda.  Strong player.  Claimed/hinted role.  Relieving pressure.  I'm not going to speculate on what the reason Darthe's dead is, but I'm also not going to ignore the fact he claims to be exceptional at reading one of my most reasonable scum candidates - and this is supported by said player.

 

 

As it relates to Spades's question - would scum really act like that?  Some would.  Some wouldn't.  Trying to throw all players into a "this is what mafia do" box or "this is what town do" box is pretty much an exercise in futility.  How I'm going to act as mafia is nothing like what Tress might do, or what AJ might do, or what Verbal would do.  How Iron is going to act isn't how Zander is going to act.  That's why I've never been a big believer in "too wolfy to be a wolf."  Sometimes, people that are acting scummy are just scum.

[Clovdyx]

Since that's the third time I've dropped that reference this phase, and I know there are exactly two people this game that will get it, "churros" is a term affiliated with a guy from our (Cory/Lindsey/me) homesite named Chg91.  He was the guy that literally brought mafia to the forum.  He was viewed as a mafia god for the longest time, and he basically got to do whatever the hell he wanted.

 

There was one game that another strong player was nightkilled.  Somebody asked who it would incriminate.  An answer of Chg was given; the person that originally asked the question agreed but noted that it would be totally obvious and an amateur move.  would it really be THAT obvious?  And the line that was stated in response pretty much sums up mafia perfectly: "To be fair, it pretty much always has been."

 

Yes, mafia do weird things.  Sometimes they kill players for absolutely no reason that serve absolutely no purpose.  But more often than not, there is an agenda.  Strong player.  Claimed/hinted role.  Relieving pressure.  I'm not going to speculate on what the reason Darthe's dead is, but I'm also not going to ignore the fact he claims to be exceptional at reading one of my most reasonable scum candidates - and this is supported by said player.

 

 

As it relates to Spades's question - would scum really act like that?  Some would.  Some wouldn't.  Trying to throw all players into a "this is what mafia do" box or "this is what town do" box is pretty much an exercise in futility.  How I'm going to act as mafia is nothing like what Tress might do, or what AJ might do, or what Verbal would do.  How Iron is going to act isn't how Zander is going to act.  That's why I've never been a big believer in "too wolfy to be a wolf."  Sometimes, people that are acting scummy are just scum.

 

TL;DR - bad defenses aren't always right.

[Clovdyx]

Eldrick - 

 

 

I also really want to town read cory/clov because of the sheer amount of effort they have put into solving this game.

I'm hesitant to do so only because I know that they are excellent players. They remind me of people like shad and AJ. Those 2 can be very convincing townies as scum.

I'm gonna move them up to town, but with a paranoid deep wolf tinfoil. And deep wolves aren't something to worry about yet.

Considering that Cory was jumping up and down for FC to be lynched and Clov asked me to move over to FC, I'd be SHOCKED if they were deep wolfing. It just doesn't make sense when there was a viable mislynch on the table. I know Chris isn't a fan bussing without a reason, and there just doesn't seem to be a reason for them to bus there. 

 

 

note: when i say easier to go down that route, i don't mena easier not to think abotu, i mean for them to be a team they would have to  come up with sooh fake asking about the role the tedbundy guy claimed and then chris's explanation as a way to get her super townread and then they bus their bro. So much intrigue and fancy play for ti to be true that its just unlikely on proncipal because they could have done without all the fancy play and still have villa reads on 2/3 of the team while not having to bus and attempt to get FC killed. 

 

it just doesn't compute for me

 

Thoughts?

[MrsClov]

Since that's the third time I've dropped that reference this phase, and I know there are exactly two people this game that will get it, "churros" is a term affiliated with a guy from our (Cory/Lindsey/me) homesite named Chg91.  He was the guy that literally brought mafia to the forum.  He was viewed as a mafia god for the longest time, and he basically got to do whatever the hell he wanted.

 

There was one game that another strong player was nightkilled.  Somebody asked who it would incriminate.  An answer of Chg was given; the person that originally asked the question agreed but noted that it would be totally obvious and an amateur move.  would it really be THAT obvious?  And the line that was stated in response pretty much sums up mafia perfectly: "To be fair, it pretty much always has been."

 

Yes, mafia do weird things.  Sometimes they kill players for absolutely no reason that serve absolutely no purpose.  But more often than not, there is an agenda.  Strong player.  Claimed/hinted role.  Relieving pressure.  I'm not going to speculate on what the reason Darthe's dead is, but I'm also not going to ignore the fact he claims to be exceptional at reading one of my most reasonable scum candidates - and this is supported by said player.

 

 

As it relates to Spades's question - would scum really act like that?  Some would.  Some wouldn't.  Trying to throw all players into a "this is what mafia do" box or "this is what town do" box is pretty much an exercise in futility.  How I'm going to act as mafia is nothing like what Tress might do, or what AJ might do, or what Verbal would do.  How Iron is going to act isn't how Zander is going to act.  That's why I've never been a big believer in "too wolfy to be a wolf."  Sometimes, people that are acting scummy are just scum.

Don't forget about LeeLee who as SK said in thread who she was going to kill and then killed them.

[Eldrick4221]

I was about to ask you about churros.

[Zander?]

I said it before - if FC is scum, that's just a clean wagon.  With the claim, I actually trust Bop/Spades more than I do Sooh right now - and I don't trust her any less than I did.  I just trust them more.  For all intents and purposes, I have four confirmed townies right now.

 

I am giving Eldrick the benefit of the doubt because I was townreading him before, and like Bop said...claiming a vig shot that wasn't yours isn't smart.  Claiming a vig shot that wasn't yours is how you get vigged during the night.  I do have two concerns.  One's a fairly big one, but it's mostly stupid (related to setup) and don't really care to get into it because it essentially boils down to "How would Hallia balance a game?".  The smaller concern is whether I think Eldrick genuinely challenges Cory and me being town this phase.

 

My WTL is pretty much always going to be Iron -> Cuth -> Fred I think.  Cory and I disagree about Cuth.  I'm not ruling out the possibility he's town, but I just feel better about what Fredwood's done this far over Cuth's.  

 

 

Also churros.

 

What he said

[Zander?]

I was about to ask you about churros.

 

Eldridk and Sbops

 

both claim shots.....

 

hmmmmmmmmmm

[Eldrick4221]

Eldrick -

 

 

I also really want to town read cory/clov because of the sheer amount of effort they have put into solving this game.

 

I'm hesitant to do so only because I know that they are excellent players. They remind me of people like shad and AJ. Those 2 can be very convincing townies as scum.

 

I'm gonna move them up to town, but with a paranoid deep wolf tinfoil. And deep wolves aren't something to worry about yet.

Considering that Cory was jumping up and down for FC to be lynched and Clov asked me to move over to FC, I'd be SHOCKED if they were deep wolfing. It just doesn't make sense when there was a viable mislynch on the table. I know Chris isn't a fan bussing without a reason, and there just doesn't seem to be a reason for them to bus there.

note: when i say easier to go down that route, i don't mena easier not to think abotu, i mean for them to be a team they would have to come up with sooh fake asking about the role the tedbundy guy claimed and then chris's explanation as a way to get her super townread and then they bus their bro. So much intrigue and fancy play for ti to be true that its just unlikely on proncipal because they could have done without all the fancy play and still have villa reads on 2/3 of the team while not having to bus and attempt to get FC killed.

 

it just doesn't compute for me

Thoughts?

When I said that I wouldn't think about lynching you unless it got down to you and mmmspades, I meant it. You are as town to me as they are.

 

Agree that your actions on getting people to move onto FC further cements that read. I'm not worried about you guys at all.

[Eldrick4221]

About to go driving with my bro. He needs practice for his test.

 

I'll check back in before I go to bed.

[Clovdyx]

Don't forget about LeeLee who as SK said in thread who she was going to kill and then killed them.

 

 

Ah, yes.  The serial killer...who claimed serial killer.  And then each night posted who she was going to target, targeted them, and then publicly claimed the kill each morning.

 

She lasted seven or eight days before getting lynched.  She flipped serial killer.  Everyone was surprised.  Everyone but one, anyway

[MrsClov]

Okay, I just finished ISOing Iron.

 

I read all of his posts with the assumption that he is a wolf and tried to put two and two together with that forethought.

 

I made A LOT of notes. I would multi-quote him, but the formatting of this site makes me think I would mess something up and end up losing my work. I tried to quote him as carefully as I could in my notes without making them decades long, so just bare with me.

 

I didn't really realize it until I ISO'ed him, but half of his posts are either about me or responding to me. (Sorry I have a boyfriend)

 

please take that as a joke. It's really funny in my head

 

 

He basically locked clear me with no explanation. I will also add he only talks about me, not Bop. Only once did he talk about Bop and it was him asking for explanations for a read list.The reason I don't like this is because it seems like he only reads my posts. Bop has said and done a lot this game and while we are a team our opinions/conclusions are generally a little different. As a villager you would look at both of us, you would look at everything.

 

He also spend a bit of time rubbing up on Linz. While I'm also guilty of this (because how can you not <3), he lacks actual solid content between this. Idk if he just wanted to look squishy and innocent in her eyes by making a personal appeal to sway her opinion and keep him in neutral or what. 

 

Things regarding Darthe:

 

Now I looked closely at what happened between him and Darthe. Darthe immediately suspected him, while Darthe said it was light, he still had it there. Later on he complimented one of Darthes posts but also disagreed with some of Darthes early passes (Which were Zander, Sooh, Eldrick and MmmSpades)- With that he said he has null reads on everyone but me. "Players above haven't done enough". In my notes I underlined he felt inactive players are usually scumy and mentioned that included himself. (not in a way of calling himself scummy, but in the way that he could be perceived that way)

One thing that really stood out to me was Darthe made a comment that he is a GOAT Marsh reader. To which Iron responded that Darthe used that for wolf cover once. Obviously we know Darthe is town in this situation. Later Darthe called Irons read list "a clean wolf post". Iron responded asking Darthe if he forgot how to read him. At one point Bop and I mention feeling weird about Darthe and he comes in to defend him, at this point Darthe is wolf reading him. I take this as him trying really hard to be suuuper nice to all the people wolf reading him in hopes they will change their mind. 

The post that made me scream wolf in this ISO was that he's "hypersensitive about Darthe because of his accuracy in reading him". He didn't want to get 'mislynched'. Now in my eyes, if you're town, you're town. Nothing to worry about. Especially if someone can read you well and you're town. (I don't have the post number but the time/date is 7/14 - 2:40 pm)

Now I know this has been addressed by Cory and Iron responded by saying he wasn't n00by enough to kill Darthe because it would draw suspicion to him... But damn this looks so so soooo bad.

 

 

Scruff vote/ his response to being voted:

 

The thing that cracks me up the most about this ISO is the fact that he's pushing the Scruff vote all game. Every time scruff popped up he would chime in about it too. He doesn't give more than a sentence about it at a time, but he pushed it and pushed it. Meanwhile, when he had three people voting for him he called them "lazy villagers" and that they were "setting him up" when all the votes had very little back up. He can't write more than a sentence about why Scruff should be lynched and called others lazy for saying they were tone reading him wolfy? Most of the votes on him were for pressure to see how he would respond. I also asked Cuth for some quotes to point out what posts had bad tone in his opinion and Iron came in wanting them too so he could defend himself.

Another kicker with this is when Scruff starts to get votes, he hops on and says "I'm comfortable with this train" and shortly after says "easy for sum to chill and let others do work for them and jump on a train". Irony?

 

 

 

TL;DR

The trends I found is he only replies to votes about him, has an obsession with read lists order for some reason, town reads anyone who votes him and made zero cases about anyone but Scruffington. He mentions himself on every single read list he responded to. 

 

My biggest issue is that he has spent the game pushing the easy scruff lynch, takes zero time to analyse anyone else (in fact he didn't have a single detail in any of his posts about anything), kissing up to those who vote him, and spends a lot of time defending himself.

 

 

What I take from this is that either he's a villager obsessed with his appearance, so much that he's not actually paying anyone else mind so voted Scruff because easy.

Or he's a wolf being extremely wolfy.

To be fair, the one other time I've played with Iron he buddied up to me in that as well and was town. I think he just likes my posts. I will say from that game I felt like there was a lot more explanation than what's going on here.

 

Not opposed to lynching Iron, but I want to let the day phase play out longer and see where it takes us.

[Zander?]

Who is your top Scum read Linz?

[MrsClov]

Who is your top Scum read Linz?

To be determined between Cuth and Iron. 

[MrsClov]

 

Who is your top Scum read Linz?

To be determined between Cuth and Iron. 

 

To elaborate on this, I still think Cuth looks bad for coming in out of no where and voting Scruffington when FC was getting ran up, even more so now that FC has flipped scum. I'm not sure what to make of him coming in and voting Ironeyes though. 

[Zander?]

 

 

Who is your top Scum read Linz?

To be determined between Cuth and Iron. 

 

To elaborate on this, I still think Cuth looks bad for coming in out of no where and voting Scruffington when FC was getting ran up, even more so now that FC has flipped scum. I'm not sure what to make of him coming in and voting Ironeyes though. 

 

 

That late vote was bad by Cuth.

 

I wish I had more Meta on him.

 

But is too obv just really too obv?!?!?!?!?!

[MrsClov]

 

 

 

Who is your top Scum read Linz?

To be determined between Cuth and Iron. 

 

To elaborate on this, I still think Cuth looks bad for coming in out of no where and voting Scruffington when FC was getting ran up, even more so now that FC has flipped scum. I'm not sure what to make of him coming in and voting Ironeyes though. 

 

 

That late vote was bad by Cuth.

 

I wish I had more Meta on him.

 

But is too obv just really too obv?!?!?!?!?!

 

See Clov's post about obvious scum being obvious.

[Cory Caboose]

Several posts about the same point. I already said I get it. That marsh doesn't seem to be solving. He is probably scum.

 

But even if he is, he isn't the only one left. Do you have anything to say about what I said regarding FC's interactions? You know, the one we actually know is scum.

FC didn't spew much. His wolfread on Fredwood has bus potential. Thats about it

[Cory Caboose]

He does seem to be talking directly to me tho, spades. Yes it's out there for the whole thread to comment on, but it started with me asking him about what he found in past ISOs.

 

Cory, I'm sorry for the attitude.

We're good man, I just ramble a lot lol

 

Was sort of talking @ everyone as well

[Cuth]

I can see it. I can see a world where he's scum. The issue I've been having with marsh, and the reason he's still null, is he's aware of the fact that the way he plays as town comes off as scummy.

 

I could see him using that to his advantage as scum.

 

It's why I'm unable to get him out of poe. With the sheer number of people I actually have reason to think are town, it's very likely he is scum.

what

 

even

 

what?

[Fredwood]

2 scum left in a 3 man POE, I can live with that I guess.

[Zander?]

Bop, Cory, Cuth town

Eldrick, Fred scum

That's where I'm at atm.

 

Regarding my posts in that bug period. Most of them was me changing the format or just outright removing parts of them to see if that would fix things. The others were just made at a different time since I wanted to see if it was just a timing issue so of course the wording would alsi be slightly different.

I believe that cory genuinely believes his read which is why I'm still town reading him but his reasoning is bad. Those set of posts are plain and simply NAI.

 

We've got 2 Claimed Vigs in his list  SBops Town and Eldrick Scum.

 

Odds are theyre both not Scum, maybe both are vigs maybe 1 SK.

 

So Cuth and Fred are def in PoE.  Im thinking odds are he's got a partner in there for sure.

 

Anyone have any Meta on FC, he a busser by nature as Scum?

 

 

 

Bop, Cory, Cuth town

Eldrick, Fred scum

That's where I'm at atm.

 

Regarding my posts in that bug period. Most of them was me changing the format or just outright removing parts of them to see if that would fix things. The others were just made at a different time since I wanted to see if it was just a timing issue so of course the wording would alsi be slightly different.

I believe that cory genuinely believes his read which is why I'm still town reading him but his reasoning is bad. Those set of posts are plain and simply NAI.

 

Can you explain the bold?  I really don't get how Cuth would be a strongish read for anyone (in EITHER direction), and both Fred and Eldrick have looked good to me.  

 

 

Cuth as scum would have pushed me hard by now with what I've posted so far since he knows he can get away with it, that why I've got him as a solid town read.

Eldrick I feel is asking more questions than actually trying to solve.

Fred is pretty much purely gut since I don't know how he usually plays either. His posts just feels off to me but I can't quite put into words what it is that's bugging me.

 

 

Even tho his progression has very Scummy looking at times, I realy don't think Scum!Eld ever calls that out as Scum.  Also upon reading I noticed some AtE/Emotional type posts which I have trpuble thinking he does BOTH those things as Scum.  So Town!Vig or SK for Eld for me.  Prolly the former but not ruling out the latter and the same applies to S-Bop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bop, Cory, Cuth town

Eldrick, Fred scum

That's where I'm at atm.

 

Regarding my posts in that bug period. Most of them was me changing the format or just outright removing parts of them to see if that would fix things. The others were just made at a different time since I wanted to see if it was just a timing issue so of course the wording would alsi be slightly different.

I believe that cory genuinely believes his read which is why I'm still town reading him but his reasoning is bad. Those set of posts are plain and simply NAI.

 

Can you explain the bold?  I really don't get how Cuth would be a strongish read for anyone (in EITHER direction), and both Fred and Eldrick have looked good to me.  

 

 

Cuth as scum would have pushed me hard by now with what I've posted so far since he knows he can get away with it, that why I've got him as a solid town read.

Eldrick I feel is asking more questions than actually trying to solve.

Fred is pretty much purely gut since I don't know how he usually plays either. His posts just feels off to me but I can't quite put into words what it is that's bugging me.

 

 

Can you go elaborate a little bit more on what you think Eldrick OUGHT to be doing but isn't?  I think questioning is directly tied to solving, myself - especially when directed at/about quieter players.

 

He seems to be around just for the sake of been around while asking alot of questions which wolves can easily do.

He apparently voted for me because he claims that I admitted to been a wolf but he switched off not long after. Don't understand why he would switch off me so quickly if he truly thought I was a wolf. 

 

 

 

Basically, I feel that for someone that's posted as much as he has, I was expecting more of an impression than the one that he left me.

 

 

Vote: Eldrick

 

 

 

More on Eldrick being Scum and follow up vote on him.

 

Back, going to self pres on Scruffington before eod if it saves me of course.

Pretty stupid reason to get mislynched for but can't do much when half the players are just sheeping.

 

lolololololol

 

 

I'm not looking for detailed reads from you.

I'm looking for interest in literally any thread event that wasn't someone's rationale for voting you / not voting you.

 

My reason for reading Fred wolf isn't based on how he's reading me. My main reason for reading Eldrick wolf isn't because of how he's reading me. Cuth is a meta read, why would I not base it off what I expect him to do against me normally?

You and Bop have been heavily involved in the thread and trying to solve, noone really reads you scum so why do I need to repeat irrelevent stuff that others have already said?

 

 

Yea gotte believe there's Scum here and I dont think its Eldrick. 

 

At least one of Cuth/Fred are Scum

 

Both are Sdmmuy AF in spots.

 

I mentioned with Fred's take on me and SBop and his reads lists felt like he was he either GOAT or playing with TMI.

 

Cuth's late vote on to a Town train causing a tie with a later confirmed Scum train is a awful look too.

 

Fred feels more slimy to me then Cuth does.  Like he kinfa looks clean but still feels dirty.

 

But Cuth hasnt done anything overly Towny thus far imo aside from the vote.

 

Ill need to head some Meta on both players and see what others I trust think.