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[Game thread]Magic The Gathering


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Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:17 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:09 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 1:53 PM, Shad_ said:

What's odd about it?  The potential lie here isn't relevant to the potential validity of her claim.  Reads to me like she's overreaching in trying to keep villagers off her back, which she would do as any non-town alignment.

 

The Town wins when all threats to the Town have been eliminated. 

 

Don't know how to help you past that.

 

I know you know what a Survivor is and I honestly feel like you're just playing dumb at this point.

 

 

 

You continue to avoid my questions.

 

If we lynch BFG, we clear a non-Town. Anyone else and we risk a mislynch, especially with me being on the vote, and I suspect dice as well.

 

Please answer my questions.

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Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:24 PM, Eldrick4221 said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:09 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

The Town wins when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

 

Don't know how to help you past that.

This.

 

EXACTLY this.

 

Not town does NOT equal threat to town.

 

If she's telling the truth, however unlikely, then she isn't a threat to town. Lyching her doesn't help us if she's telling the truth. All it does is make her lose.

 

Lynching her because you think she's scum is fine. Lynching her because she's "not town" isn't.

 

 

 

See, to me, this is pedantic. To me, this is the definition of outsmarting yourself.

 

1. I don't see another player we have better info on to lynch. if you do, that's fine, but I'll ask for simple reasons why this is so. 

 

2. At this point, who cares if she's telling the truth? She's not Town, so you have to consider the risk that she'll work against the Town. I know she's working against the Town by omgusing me - I'm Town. 

 

3. If she is mafia, as I suspect, great. But if she's just 3P, it's still great. Her non-town influence is eliminated and we move forward with that slot resolved instead of waiting and hoping it's not a trap. 

 

Y'all are a bunch of non-question-answering mofos today. 

Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:33 PM, Eldrick4221 said:

If bfg isn't scum, she's effectively a mislynch too.

 

How are you not seeing that?

 

I think you are confused - she does not count toward Town numbers. She's not a mislynch - she's not anything but non-town.

 

She can't count toward Town numbers if she is going to be removed form the game on her win. 

 

It's like voting No-Lynch but getting info anyway. 

Posted

Top priority is to lynch scum, which I don't believe she is.

 

So as far as I care, she can stay alive until doing so jeprodizes town winning. (I.e. if we get another mislynch)

 

I've given you who I think is scum. You have disagreed because you think similarly. Doesn't change my view of him.

Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:42 PM, Eldrick4221 said:

Top priority is to lynch scum, which I don't believe she is.

 

So as far as I care, she can stay alive until doing so jeprodizes town winning. (I.e. if we get another mislynch)

 

I've given you who I think is scum. You have disagreed because you think similarly. Doesn't change my view of him.

 

 

Okay. We've laid out our views. it is what it is. 

Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:40 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:33 PM, Eldrick4221 said:

If bfg isn't scum, she's effectively a mislynch too.

 

How are you not seeing that?

I think you are confused - she does not count toward Town numbers. She's not a mislynch - she's not anything but non-town.

 

She can't count toward Town numbers if she is going to be removed form the game on her win.

 

It's like voting No-Lynch but getting info anyway.

That's why I said effectively.

 

She doesn't count towards town, but lynching a survivor doesn't get town any closer to winning.

 

So it's not exactly a mislynch, but it's also not a helpful lynch.

 

If she flips scum, awesome.

If she flips survivor, we wasted our lynch.

Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:07 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

1. Yes, thank you... But you have not investigated other reasons for a lack of NK on N1. Could be as simple as a Doc protect, and that Doc might have made a bad call last night. That's a little bit easier to believe than BFG's claim. Point is, we just don't know. In that light, you've put in a lot of work to "explain" BFG's claim and you've ignored the other possibilities. Thus, you've gone out of your way to support her.

 

2. You really don't care if her claim is true? You're cool with a liar lying in a liar's game? That's a new one on me...

 

What if she's lying and we can't kill her? What if we don't get another chance? We don't know, can't know the setup, but we do know that crazy claims and possible lies are a bad, bad thing for Town.

 

3. You've made the "bad modding" point a few times now... that's pretty much just shittalk and ranks one step above spec on bastard modding. 

 

You don't know the setup - only the mod does.

 

Your job is to judge the players, not the setup. 

 

You're incriminating he mod over a player who's made a fairly outlandish claim - sonny boy, that's just scum play alllll day long. No bueno.

 

4. I've seen over-thought claims a lot of times. Whenever a player floats something that nobody really understands or can see the reason for, it is most likely a mafia overstep.

 

You know this. You probably have a statistic for how many times it's happened ffs...

 

Let's use BFG's Occams Razor...

 

In a basic game, what place is there for the claim she's made? If one doesn't come to mind, she's probably lying. Why let her live?

 

You keep avoiding this point, so just answer these three questions please:

 

What harm does it being to the Town to lynch her? 

 

What benefit to the Town will lynching her provide?

 

What reason do we have to lynch anyone over her?

1. I did think about this at some length, though I didn't lay it out in the thread for reasons. I'll get into that later.

 

2. The world where a scenario could exist where scum can win by reaching F6 was rare to begin with and rapidly depleting.

 

3. Since when does DPR this set-up spec is shady? Yes, we don't know the set-up for a fact. This could be a 13p cult game with two serial killers, 4 scum, and I'm the only remaining villager. But it isn't.  I can say that and be right without mod knowledge. Rewarding town by denying scum a night kill because a villager broke the rules is bad modding.  Letting a person outside of the game arbitrarily choose the winner is bad modding.  Sorry not sorry, and Sooh isn't a bad mod. 

 

4. Occam's Razor says she claimed Survivor out of the blue because she's a Survivor and wants to survive.  That doesn't rule out alternatives entirely but those alternatives should only hurt us if she's proven to be lying and we let her live anyway.

 

Red is pretty scummy mate because you know it's not true.

 

Harm: If she's a Survivor then that's one less opportunity we have to lynch scum.

 

Benefit: We clear a slot that would be cleared automatically anyway.

 

Alternative: We lynch the wolfy people.

Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:44 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:42 PM, Eldrick4221 said:

Top priority is to lynch scum, which I don't believe she is.

 

So as far as I care, she can stay alive until doing so jeprodizes town winning. (I.e. if we get another mislynch)

 

I've given you who I think is scum. You have disagreed because you think similarly. Doesn't change my view of him.

 

Okay. We've laid out our views. it is what it is.

Truly.

 

And I am against your lynch fwiw. Want to know why shad and bfg are after you.

Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:45 PM, Eldrick4221 said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:40 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:33 PM, Eldrick4221 said:

If bfg isn't scum, she's effectively a mislynch too.

 

How are you not seeing that?

I think you are confused - she does not count toward Town numbers. She's not a mislynch - she's not anything but non-town.

 

She can't count toward Town numbers if she is going to be removed form the game on her win.

 

It's like voting No-Lynch but getting info anyway.

That's why I said effectively.

 

She doesn't count towards town, but lynching a survivor doesn't get town any closer to winning.

 

So it's not exactly a mislynch, but it's also not a helpful lynch.

 

If she flips scum, awesome.

If she flips survivor, we wasted our lynch.

 

 

 

Go to the next step...

 

We didn't waste our lynch, we effectively voted No Lynch - and we didn't mislynch. 

 

And we will have more info to make better decisions with. 

Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:26 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:17 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:09 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 1:53 PM, Shad_ said:

What's odd about it?  The potential lie here isn't relevant to the potential validity of her claim.  Reads to me like she's overreaching in trying to keep villagers off her back, which she would do as any non-town alignment.

 

The Town wins when all threats to the Town have been eliminated. 

 

Don't know how to help you past that.

 

I know you know what a Survivor is and I honestly feel like you're just playing dumb at this point.

 

 

 

You continue to avoid my questions.

 

If we lynch BFG, we clear a non-Town. Anyone else and we risk a mislynch, especially with me being on the vote, and I suspect dice as well.

 

Please answer my questions.

 

 

That's not a question.

 

You keep bringing up that I'm not answering non-existent questions or quoting direct answers to questions and asking me why I didn't answer.  You've been shading me all game.

 

You know what a Survivor is so I'm not going to play this stupid game.  If she is a Survivor lynching her hurts town and you know this and the rest of the field should not let themselves get played into believing you don't know this.

 

I think you're a wolf who heard 3P and thought "easy lynch", and you misjudged how people would react and dove on it and now that you're stuck on that line you have to defend a bad argument.

Posted

Also I wanted to say re:

 

4. I've seen over-thought claims a lot of times. Whenever a player floats something that nobody really understands or can see the reason for, it is most likely a mafia overstep.

 

You're the only one who seems to be struggling to understand it/see a reason for it.

Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:46 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:07 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

1. Yes, thank you... But you have not investigated other reasons for a lack of NK on N1. Could be as simple as a Doc protect, and that Doc might have made a bad call last night. That's a little bit easier to believe than BFG's claim. Point is, we just don't know. In that light, you've put in a lot of work to "explain" BFG's claim and you've ignored the other possibilities. Thus, you've gone out of your way to support her.

 

2. You really don't care if her claim is true? You're cool with a liar lying in a liar's game? That's a new one on me...

 

What if she's lying and we can't kill her? What if we don't get another chance? We don't know, can't know the setup, but we do know that crazy claims and possible lies are a bad, bad thing for Town.

 

3. You've made the "bad modding" point a few times now... that's pretty much just shittalk and ranks one step above spec on bastard modding. 

 

You don't know the setup - only the mod does.

 

Your job is to judge the players, not the setup. 

 

You're incriminating he mod over a player who's made a fairly outlandish claim - sonny boy, that's just scum play alllll day long. No bueno.

 

4. I've seen over-thought claims a lot of times. Whenever a player floats something that nobody really understands or can see the reason for, it is most likely a mafia overstep.

 

You know this. You probably have a statistic for how many times it's happened ffs...

 

Let's use BFG's Occams Razor...

 

In a basic game, what place is there for the claim she's made? If one doesn't come to mind, she's probably lying. Why let her live?

 

You keep avoiding this point, so just answer these three questions please:

 

What harm does it being to the Town to lynch her? 

 

What benefit to the Town will lynching her provide?

 

What reason do we have to lynch anyone over her?

1. I did think about this at some length, though I didn't lay it out in the thread for reasons. I'll get into that later.

 

2. The world where a scenario could exist where scum can win by reaching F6 was rare to begin with and rapidly depleting.

 

3. Since when does DPR this set-up spec is shady? Yes, we don't know the set-up for a fact. This could be a 13p cult game with two serial killers, 4 scum, and I'm the only remaining villager. But it isn't.  I can say that and be right without mod knowledge. Rewarding town by denying scum a night kill because a villager broke the rules is bad modding.  Letting a person outside of the game arbitrarily choose the winner is bad modding.  Sorry not sorry, and Sooh isn't a bad mod. 

 

4. Occam's Razor says she claimed Survivor out of the blue because she's a Survivor and wants to survive.  That doesn't rule out alternatives entirely but those alternatives should only hurt us if she's proven to be lying and we let her live anyway.

 

Red is pretty scummy mate because you know it's not true.

 

Harm: If she's a Survivor then that's one less opportunity we have to lynch scum.

 

Benefit: We clear a slot that would be cleared automatically anyway.

 

Alternative: We lynch the wolfy people.

 

 

So:

 

1. Mysterious reasons. Awesome.

 

2. Rapidly depleting? Nothing changed all day - how exactly is it rapidly depleting?

 

3. Nope.

 

4. Double Nope

 

The rest is just narrative. Not a good look.  

Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:53 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Meh, this is ridiculous. You're just scumming up the page. 

 

I don't even have a response to this beyond obvious wolf is obvious.

 

We're lynching DPR today. 

 

k bye

Posted

Wow. I miss 24 hours and everything blows up. I know Cass, Shanti, and BFG had some questions for me, and​ I fully intend to answer them.

 

For right now, the claim from BFG just feels random. The timing is weird, I'm trying to figure out why she would reveal that info. But hell, I've done crazier stuff as both town and mafia in the past.

 

What I don't like is DPR gunning for her lunch today. If she is a survivor then we aren't necessarily in a hurry to Lynch her, although obviously he doesn't believe her. I do think that only one of them is mafia, if either of them are, because this is bound to get one of them lynched.

 

Like I said, I'm inclined to believe the claim for now, since she basically put her self on the chopping block for later, which I firmly believe isn't something scum would do.

 

At this time I'm gonna have to go for DPR as this seems like something townies will be thinking through more rather than lynching quick.

 

[V]DPR[/v]

Posted

Lol, I said "like I said" but I forgot to put in after saying random that I believe the claim for now. It's too random to be a scum move imo.

 

That's what I get for writing up a post over like 30 minutes between customers at work lol.

Posted

This. Is. So. FRUSTRATING.

 

I don't think BFG's claim should be at the front of our plate right now, and besides the point, I do believe she's telling the truth.. DPR, and everyone for that matter is way too distracted by it. Reading through BOTH their ISO's I don't think EITHER of them are scum, which means that we are wasting our time hunting two people that aren't going to help town win. A.)We lynch BFG and basically all we do is prove she was telling the truth and have a wasted lynch. Go to night, and one of us gets NK'd by the actual scum....and DPR can finally let it rest, but thats about it. B.) We lynch DPR and oh look, he's a mislynch, so there's one town down, what happens then? Whyyyyyy we go to night and scum gets a NK which means.....dun dun DUNNNN we've lost yet ANOTHER town.  Which means scum is sitting back and letting this happen, and probably even helping it along because it makes their jobs that much easier. Which MEANS they would probably point a finger at DPR to push us for a mislynch.

 

>.< 

Posted

Shad, I'm going to attempt to ISO you one more time, but your ISO gives me a headache. I know where I stand now because last night as I was trying to sleep, I read through everything. I ISO'd you and it just confused me, so I re-read the entire thread, but wouldn't allow myself to speak so as not to get distracted. Once things popped out at me, I was tempted to post, but I wanted to sleep on it, and keep my distance, because the conclusion I came to is going to be a pain in my butt and I needed to make sure I was willing to commit to my feels. I feel a certain way and I strongly believe I'm right. I just need to find things to back it up. You're smart, though. I will give you that. But on the chance that I AM right and my gut is to be believed, I need to get my suspicions of you and dice as a scumteam out in the open, because if I'm nk'd I've put it out there, if I beat around the bush and you nk me, then no one has anything solid to go on. So my vote will stay where it is, the only place I'd be tempted to move it to, is you. Alas, I still need to dive into your whirlwind of an ISO and find all my proof that jumped at me last night. >.<

Posted

@Dice I'm also curious to know. You voted Shad in the main beginning, have claimed this entire time that he needs to be lynched. But you voted him while no one else was and haven't made a move to vote him since then. Not even now, when doubt is being tossed his way by more than one person. Why not go after him now? Why go after BFG over him? Your egging DPR on with your compliment to him makes me think my theory stated above is correct. You and Shad successfully distanced yourselves because Nyn was a wildcard and neither of you knew which way that would go. So to protect at least one of you, you distanced so that when the time came, it would be hard to prove scummates. I don't think either of you really expected a vote on cuthanyn to take off the way it did, so you were left with no choice but to hammer. But thankfully for you, you had already distanced from Shad so you have all these nice little easter eggs in your ISO to reference if accused of being a team.

Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 2:57 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:53 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Meh, this is ridiculous. You're just scumming up the page.

I don't even have a response to this beyond obvious wolf is obvious.

 

We're lynching DPR today.

 

k bye

LOL

 

You're such a bad liar - you know perfectly well I'm Town.

Posted
  On 6/12/2017 at 5:05 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:57 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:53 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Meh, this is ridiculous. You're just scumming up the page.

I don't even have a response to this beyond obvious wolf is obvious.

 

We're lynching DPR today.

 

k bye

LOL

 

You're such a bad liar - you know perfectly well I'm Town.

 

 

I disagree with him being a bad liar. But I do agree that he knows you're town.

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