[Game thread]Magic The Gathering

Eldrick4221 · June 11, 2017

And if she's telling the truth?

Not only does she lose, but we are no closer to winning.

Do you actually think she's scum. If so, why?

What if Cuth was telling the truth? Point is, she's our best pick for scum right now, no?

You commented that it's a weird win con. I commented that the timing struck me as odd. She admitted she's not Town and keeps trying to bring focus to the F6 part of her claim - if she's mafia and they have something like an extra kill, that's it for us.

You want Town to win or the 3p? If it's Town, you get rid of non-townies. Simple as that.

No. She's not. Not because of her claim.

Not town doesn't mean scum. Lynching not scum still doesn't help.

F6 wincon being weird doesn't mean it's untrue.

Mafia having an extra kill in a basic game with apparently no doc is absurd.

Give me a reason that bfg is scum besides her claim.

Name another player more likely to be scum.

I'm saying that her claim benefits scum more than anyone, ergo she's most likely to be scum.

She looked scummy on D1. I called it out then. Will revisit that reasoning after folks have a chance to react to her claim.

F6 wincon seems lame. it would imply that there was some challenge beyond the norm that required skill to last that long. We have a 13 player game with normal roles so far - making her Survivor claim more absurd than my speculation that for her claim to exist, there would need to be something to balance it.

Much more likely that she's just scum - exactly the way that you treated Cuth's claims.

You mean like the person I'm already voting?

Talk to me about dice. What do you think about his avoiding sussing nyn because "she doesn't do that as scum"?

Eldrick4221 · June 11, 2017

I treated cuth's claim from a technical standpoint. That this is a basic game and bus driver was unlikely.

I actually wasn't sold that he was scum because of his response to me voting tigs. But that was obviously where the lynch was going so I decided to not be involved. To finish catching up.

DPR · June 11, 2017

And if she's telling the truth?

Not only does she lose, but we are no closer to winning.

Do you actually think she's scum. If so, why?

What if Cuth was telling the truth? Point is, she's our best pick for scum right now, no?

You commented that it's a weird win con. I commented that the timing struck me as odd. She admitted she's not Town and keeps trying to bring focus to the F6 part of her claim - if she's mafia and they have something like an extra kill, that's it for us.

You want Town to win or the 3p? If it's Town, you get rid of non-townies. Simple as that.

No. She's not. Not because of her claim.

Not town doesn't mean scum. Lynching not scum still doesn't help.

F6 wincon being weird doesn't mean it's untrue.

Mafia having an extra kill in a basic game with apparently no doc is absurd.

Give me a reason that bfg is scum besides her claim.

Name another player more likely to be scum.

I'm saying that her claim benefits scum more than anyone, ergo she's most likely to be scum.

She looked scummy on D1. I called it out then. Will revisit that reasoning after folks have a chance to react to her claim.

F6 wincon seems lame. it would imply that there was some challenge beyond the norm that required skill to last that long. We have a 13 player game with normal roles so far - making her Survivor claim more absurd than my speculation that for her claim to exist, there would need to be something to balance it.

Much more likely that she's just scum - exactly the way that you treated Cuth's claims.

You mean like the person I'm already voting?

Talk to me about dice. What do you think about his avoiding sussing nyn because "she doesn't do that as scum"?

I said the same thing.

I said the neither Cuth nor Nyn played comfortably as scum, based on my experience playing with both.

I'm not clearing dice - I'm not clearing anyone (maybe Shanti for obvious reasons) but I saw it the same way he did. I just need to go back and see if he said it before or after I did.

BFG · June 11, 2017

DPR thinks I'm 3P, not mafia. If he thought I was fake claiming as mafia I might agree

I'm also interested in the Cuth/nyn defence as I don't recall town-hunting from his town play, but I don't remember his mafia game, so that may be null

Oh, I absolutely think you're mafia. That's why Im voting you.

If you were really a Survivor, you wouldn't have claimed when you did. It doesn't resolve anything - it only brings more distraction into the game

Bolded, see second quote below and try again :p

I've already been shot once. I have no night survivability at this point.

HARDCLAIM SURVIVOR win con F6

The wincon is important because it means I can't mafia side at lylo (since the game didn't start 8v4v1)

Which means I am now self resolving

I was shot N1, I would guess PR hunting since I was quiet although I would have thought that Nyn would know that activity is dependent on time so vig is possible

I don't trust this one bit. If we haven't won by F6, you are going down. Town wouldn't claim this. Mafia might. On the off chance you are telling the truth, I will let you have your win before you die.

I'll comment on your first post in a minute, but this one needs to be addressed first:

You state above that this is obviously not a Town claim. Why let her have the claim win con?

Because if she's mafia we can lynch her at f6 and be fine. It's not an urgent resolution.

And if she's telling the truth, we can hunt the last 2 between now and then. (Assuming a team of 3 in a game this size)

Worst case scenario is we mislynch the next 2 days and she's telling the truth. Cuz that would be lylo.

By then we will have more information to decide if she's actually mafia or not.

Point is her claim isn't something we have to worry about now.

Not a good look.

The actual point is, you spot scum and you kill scum. Letting them live a little longer never works in the Town's favor. Per her own admission, she doesn't count as as Town so resolve the spot now.

I also tend to be skeptical of claims made directly after Cops are out of the game.

Seems like it might have made more sense to wait and watch. Not like you were going to be viewed, so why rush a reveal?

This is surprisingly generic

There is ~always going to be a survivor debate, better to get it over with early, I'll come back to this later

And it has nothing to do with Tigs death and everything to do with mafia dying. I have guaranteed that I can't live to end game if mafia, so there's no need for town to waste time on this

And I claimed (at all) because I very rarely survive long in games, mafia have (almost certainly) tried shooting me once already

Why are you ignoring the F6 part of my claim?

Heh. You're not Town. Time to swing.

[v] BFG [/v]

Town don't win lynching survivors, they win lynching mafia. You know this, lynching me is one lynch closer to losing. The F6 part of my wincon means I can't mafia side, which means mafia want to lynch me as that moves closer to their wincon

So [v]DPR[/v]

You made all this up because I called you out D1.

Your reveal is confusing at best and shady af. Your timing just makes it worse. No you're going to omgus me for voting you. LOL.

Lol, no

I don't mechanically destroy any chances of surviving end game if mafia

Nor do I nudge Nyn day 1, if I'm bussing I bus, or I ignore her the way everyone else was

There's nothing confusing about my claim. It's entirely self-resolving

It's all a little too pat.

How convenient for you that you have the "f6" win con.

You had no pressure to reveal and you had less reason to reveal when you did. Straight up, it looks like exactly what scum would do if they wanted to preserve a player until as close to endgame as possible.

LOL at trying to show us your playbook - not much point in playing if you don't switch your game up from time to time, eh?

So your argument is that with one mafia down, I make a claim that 100% kills me at F6 for #raisins? You're not evaluating this in an honest way. I agree that trying new stuff is a good thing, but generally you try things to extend life, not guarantee death. Why won't you acknowledge what F6 means?

And why was it so important to you to defend Cuth/Nyn, when you disagree with the remove townies from the POE playbook?

And if she's telling the truth?

Not only does she lose, but we are no closer to winning.

Do you actually think she's scum. If so, why?

What if Cuth was telling the truth? Point is, she's our best pick for scum right now, no?

You commented that it's a weird win con. I commented that the timing struck me as odd. She admitted she's not Town and keeps trying to bring focus to the F6 part of her claim - if she's mafia and they have something like an extra kill, that's it for us.

You want Town to win or the 3p? If it's Town, you get rid of non-townies. Simple as that.

Eldrick4221 · June 11, 2017

I'm saying that her claim benefits scum more than anyone, ergo she's most likely to be scum.

She looked scummy on D1. I called it out then. Will revisit that reasoning after folks have a chance to react to her claim.

F6 wincon seems lame. it would imply that there was some challenge beyond the norm that required skill to last that long. We have a 13 player game with normal roles so far - making her Survivor claim more absurd than my speculation that for her claim to exist, there would need to be something to balance it.

Much more likely that she's just scum - exactly the way that you treated Cuth's claims.

I must have missed your reasoning for sussing her D1. Can you go over it again please?

Bold is a good point, though.

DPR · June 11, 2017

I treated cuth's claim from a technical standpoint. That this is a basic game and bus driver was unlikely.

I actually wasn't sold that he was scum because of his response to me voting tigs. But that was obviously where the lynch was going so I decided to not be involved. To finish catching up.

Okay. From that same place of logic, you feel like this game supports a Survivor with an F6 wincon?

DPR · June 11, 2017

I'm saying that her claim benefits scum more than anyone, ergo she's most likely to be scum.

She looked scummy on D1. I called it out then. Will revisit that reasoning after folks have a chance to react to her claim.

F6 wincon seems lame. it would imply that there was some challenge beyond the norm that required skill to last that long. We have a 13 player game with normal roles so far - making her Survivor claim more absurd than my speculation that for her claim to exist, there would need to be something to balance it.

Much more likely that she's just scum - exactly the way that you treated Cuth's claims.

I must have missed your reasoning for sussing her D1. Can you go over it again please?

Bold is a good point, though.

I will. I just need some time to re-read and ISO. My D1 wasn't much better than yours, heh.

DPR · June 11, 2017

DPR thinks I'm 3P, not mafia. If he thought I was fake claiming as mafia I might agree

I'm also interested in the Cuth/nyn defence as I don't recall town-hunting from his town play, but I don't remember his mafia game, so that may be null

Oh, I absolutely think you're mafia. That's why Im voting you.

If you were really a Survivor, you wouldn't have claimed when you did. It doesn't resolve anything - it only brings more distraction into the game

Bolded, see second quote below and try again :p

I've already been shot once. I have no night survivability at this point.

HARDCLAIM SURVIVOR win con F6

The wincon is important because it means I can't mafia side at lylo (since the game didn't start 8v4v1)

Which means I am now self resolving

I was shot N1, I would guess PR hunting since I was quiet although I would have thought that Nyn would know that activity is dependent on time so vig is possible

I don't trust this one bit. If we haven't won by F6, you are going down. Town wouldn't claim this. Mafia might. On the off chance you are telling the truth, I will let you have your win before you die.

I'll comment on your first post in a minute, but this one needs to be addressed first:

You state above that this is obviously not a Town claim. Why let her have the claim win con?

Because if she's mafia we can lynch her at f6 and be fine. It's not an urgent resolution.

And if she's telling the truth, we can hunt the last 2 between now and then. (Assuming a team of 3 in a game this size)

Worst case scenario is we mislynch the next 2 days and she's telling the truth. Cuz that would be lylo.

By then we will have more information to decide if she's actually mafia or not.

Point is her claim isn't something we have to worry about now.

Not a good look.

The actual point is, you spot scum and you kill scum. Letting them live a little longer never works in the Town's favor. Per her own admission, she doesn't count as as Town so resolve the spot now.

I also tend to be skeptical of claims made directly after Cops are out of the game.

Seems like it might have made more sense to wait and watch. Not like you were going to be viewed, so why rush a reveal?

This is surprisingly generic

There is ~always going to be a survivor debate, better to get it over with early, I'll come back to this later

And it has nothing to do with Tigs death and everything to do with mafia dying. I have guaranteed that I can't live to end game if mafia, so there's no need for town to waste time on this

And I claimed (at all) because I very rarely survive long in games, mafia have (almost certainly) tried shooting me once already

Why are you ignoring the F6 part of my claim?

Heh. You're not Town. Time to swing.

[v] BFG [/v]

Town don't win lynching survivors, they win lynching mafia. You know this, lynching me is one lynch closer to losing. The F6 part of my wincon means I can't mafia side, which means mafia want to lynch me as that moves closer to their wincon

So [v]DPR[/v]

You made all this up because I called you out D1.

Your reveal is confusing at best and shady af. Your timing just makes it worse. No you're going to omgus me for voting you. LOL.

Lol, no

I don't mechanically destroy any chances of surviving end game if mafia

Nor do I nudge Nyn day 1, if I'm bussing I bus, or I ignore her the way everyone else was

There's nothing confusing about my claim. It's entirely self-resolving

It's all a little too pat.

How convenient for you that you have the "f6" win con.

You had no pressure to reveal and you had less reason to reveal when you did. Straight up, it looks like exactly what scum would do if they wanted to preserve a player until as close to endgame as possible.

LOL at trying to show us your playbook - not much point in playing if you don't switch your game up from time to time, eh?

So your argument is that with one mafia down, I make a claim that 100% kills me at F6 for #raisins? You're not evaluating this in an honest way. I agree that trying new stuff is a good thing, but generally you try things to extend life, not guarantee death. Why won't you acknowledge what F6 means?

And why was it so important to you to defend Cuth/Nyn, when you disagree with the remove townies from the POE playbook?

And if she's telling the truth?

Not only does she lose, but we are no closer to winning.

Do you actually think she's scum. If so, why?

What if Cuth was telling the truth? Point is, she's our best pick for scum right now, no?

You commented that it's a weird win con. I commented that the timing struck me as odd. She admitted she's not Town and keeps trying to bring focus to the F6 part of her claim - if she's mafia and they have something like an extra kill, that's it for us.

You want Town to win or the 3p? If it's Town, you get rid of non-townies. Simple as that.

You're asking us to believe you are a Survivor with a BPV and an F6 wincon in a basic game.

I must politely decline.

Eldrick4221 · June 11, 2017

And if she's telling the truth?

Not only does she lose, but we are no closer to winning.

Do you actually think she's scum. If so, why?

What if Cuth was telling the truth? Point is, she's our best pick for scum right now, no?

You commented that it's a weird win con. I commented that the timing struck me as odd. She admitted she's not Town and keeps trying to bring focus to the F6 part of her claim - if she's mafia and they have something like an extra kill, that's it for us.

You want Town to win or the 3p? If it's Town, you get rid of non-townies. Simple as that.

No. She's not. Not because of her claim.

Not town doesn't mean scum. Lynching not scum still doesn't help.

F6 wincon being weird doesn't mean it's untrue.

Mafia having an extra kill in a basic game with apparently no doc is absurd.

Give me a reason that bfg is scum besides her claim.

Name another player more likely to be scum.

I'm saying that her claim benefits scum more than anyone, ergo she's most likely to be scum.

She looked scummy on D1. I called it out then. Will revisit that reasoning after folks have a chance to react to her claim.

F6 wincon seems lame. it would imply that there was some challenge beyond the norm that required skill to last that long. We have a 13 player game with normal roles so far - making her Survivor claim more absurd than my speculation that for her claim to exist, there would need to be something to balance it.

Much more likely that she's just scum - exactly the way that you treated Cuth's claims.

You mean like the person I'm already voting?

Talk to me about dice. What do you think about his avoiding sussing nyn because "she doesn't do that as scum"?

I said the same thing.

I said the neither Cuth nor Nyn played comfortably as scum, based on my experience playing with both.

I'm not clearing dice - I'm not clearing anyone (maybe Shanti for obvious reasons) but I saw it the same way he did. I just need to go back and see if he said it before or after I did.

I have a lot more experience with dice than I do with you. His ignoring nyn is weird. I would have expected town!dice to go after both. Yet he defended his reason to not go after the person that ended up flipping scum.

It's more of a reason to vote than bfg's claim imo.

Eldrick4221 · June 11, 2017

I'm saying that her claim benefits scum more than anyone, ergo she's most likely to be scum.

She looked scummy on D1. I called it out then. Will revisit that reasoning after folks have a chance to react to her claim.

F6 wincon seems lame. it would imply that there was some challenge beyond the norm that required skill to last that long. We have a 13 player game with normal roles so far - making her Survivor claim more absurd than my speculation that for her claim to exist, there would need to be something to balance it.

Much more likely that she's just scum - exactly the way that you treated Cuth's claims.

I must have missed your reasoning for sussing her D1. Can you go over it again please?

Bold is a good point, though.

I will. I just need some time to re-read and ISO. My D1 wasn't much better than yours, heh.

My D1 is nonexistent :P

Eldrick4221 · June 11, 2017

Going to bed now.

BFG · June 11, 2017

Something occurred to me.

Bfg, you say you revealed now because of a scum death. Does that mean you were considering winning with them?

I would always rather win with town, but if the game reached F7 with 3 mafia alive, I would have played to my win con and voted with them. That is no longer an option, I can win and mafia can win independently, but I cannot be kingmaker in a F7 scenario at this point.

The reason this is important is because the standard argument for lynching a survivor claim is that they will scum side at lylo

Town obviously owe me nothing, but town lynching me unless you believe me to be mafia is playing against your win con, and to believe I'm mafia you have to believe I'm playing against mine

DPR · June 11, 2017

I'm saying that her claim benefits scum more than anyone, ergo she's most likely to be scum.

She looked scummy on D1. I called it out then. Will revisit that reasoning after folks have a chance to react to her claim.

F6 wincon seems lame. it would imply that there was some challenge beyond the norm that required skill to last that long. We have a 13 player game with normal roles so far - making her Survivor claim more absurd than my speculation that for her claim to exist, there would need to be something to balance it.

Much more likely that she's just scum - exactly the way that you treated Cuth's claims.

I must have missed your reasoning for sussing her D1. Can you go over it again please?

Bold is a good point, though.

I will. I just need some time to re-read and ISO. My D1 wasn't much better than yours, heh.

My D1 is nonexistent :P

That's exactly what I meant.

BFG · June 11, 2017

DPR thinks I'm 3P, not mafia. If he thought I was fake claiming as mafia I might agree

I'm also interested in the Cuth/nyn defence as I don't recall town-hunting from his town play, but I don't remember his mafia game, so that may be null

Oh, I absolutely think you're mafia. That's why Im voting you.

If you were really a Survivor, you wouldn't have claimed when you did. It doesn't resolve anything - it only brings more distraction into the game

Bolded, see second quote below and try again :p

I've already been shot once. I have no night survivability at this point.

HARDCLAIM SURVIVOR win con F6

The wincon is important because it means I can't mafia side at lylo (since the game didn't start 8v4v1)

Which means I am now self resolving

I was shot N1, I would guess PR hunting since I was quiet although I would have thought that Nyn would know that activity is dependent on time so vig is possible

I don't trust this one bit. If we haven't won by F6, you are going down. Town wouldn't claim this. Mafia might. On the off chance you are telling the truth, I will let you have your win before you die.

I'll comment on your first post in a minute, but this one needs to be addressed first:

You state above that this is obviously not a Town claim. Why let her have the claim win con?

Because if she's mafia we can lynch her at f6 and be fine. It's not an urgent resolution.

And if she's telling the truth, we can hunt the last 2 between now and then. (Assuming a team of 3 in a game this size)

Worst case scenario is we mislynch the next 2 days and she's telling the truth. Cuz that would be lylo.

By then we will have more information to decide if she's actually mafia or not.

Point is her claim isn't something we have to worry about now.

Not a good look.

The actual point is, you spot scum and you kill scum. Letting them live a little longer never works in the Town's favor. Per her own admission, she doesn't count as as Town so resolve the spot now.

I also tend to be skeptical of claims made directly after Cops are out of the game.

Seems like it might have made more sense to wait and watch. Not like you were going to be viewed, so why rush a reveal?

This is surprisingly generic

There is ~always going to be a survivor debate, better to get it over with early, I'll come back to this later

And it has nothing to do with Tigs death and everything to do with mafia dying. I have guaranteed that I can't live to end game if mafia, so there's no need for town to waste time on this

And I claimed (at all) because I very rarely survive long in games, mafia have (almost certainly) tried shooting me once already

Why are you ignoring the F6 part of my claim?

Heh. You're not Town. Time to swing.

[v] BFG [/v]

Town don't win lynching survivors, they win lynching mafia. You know this, lynching me is one lynch closer to losing. The F6 part of my wincon means I can't mafia side, which means mafia want to lynch me as that moves closer to their wincon

So [v]DPR[/v]

You made all this up because I called you out D1.

Your reveal is confusing at best and shady af. Your timing just makes it worse. No you're going to omgus me for voting you. LOL.

Lol, no

I don't mechanically destroy any chances of surviving end game if mafia

Nor do I nudge Nyn day 1, if I'm bussing I bus, or I ignore her the way everyone else was

There's nothing confusing about my claim. It's entirely self-resolving

It's all a little too pat.

How convenient for you that you have the "f6" win con.

You had no pressure to reveal and you had less reason to reveal when you did. Straight up, it looks like exactly what scum would do if they wanted to preserve a player until as close to endgame as possible.

LOL at trying to show us your playbook - not much point in playing if you don't switch your game up from time to time, eh?

So your argument is that with one mafia down, I make a claim that 100% kills me at F6 for #raisins? You're not evaluating this in an honest way. I agree that trying new stuff is a good thing, but generally you try things to extend life, not guarantee death. Why won't you acknowledge what F6 means?

And why was it so important to you to defend Cuth/Nyn, when you disagree with the remove townies from the POE playbook?

And if she's telling the truth?

Not only does she lose, but we are no closer to winning.

Do you actually think she's scum. If so, why?

What if Cuth was telling the truth? Point is, she's our best pick for scum right now, no?

You commented that it's a weird win con. I commented that the timing struck me as odd. She admitted she's not Town and keeps trying to bring focus to the F6 part of her claim - if she's mafia and they have something like an extra kill, that's it for us.

You want Town to win or the 3p? If it's Town, you get rid of non-townies. Simple as that.

You're asking us to believe you are a Survivor with a BPV and an F6 wincon in a basic game.

I must politely decline.

I have no idea what the setup is for town or mafia, so have no idea how my wincon balances out, nor is it important

Why did you defend Cuth/Nyn?

DPR · June 11, 2017

Something occurred to me.

Bfg, you say you revealed now because of a scum death. Does that mean you were considering winning with them?

I would always rather win with town, but if the game reached F7 with 3 mafia alive, I would have played to my win con and voted with them. That is no longer an option, I can win and mafia can win independently, but I cannot be kingmaker in a F7 scenario at this point.

The reason this is important is because the standard argument for lynching a survivor claim is that they will scum side at lylo

Town obviously owe me nothing, but town lynching me unless you believe me to be mafia is playing against your win con, and to believe I'm mafia you have to believe I'm playing against mine

1. Whenever a player develops an overly complicated explanation for a claim, it raises eyebrows. Never say never because mods can be clever, but you know exactly how often these things turn out.

2. Mafia will always do whatever they can to extend their lives and their team. That's their job. The claim you have given extends your life until F6 - which is close enough to endgame in a 3 mafia scenario. And it gives you the chance to argue against your lynch from that point, making it a perfectly good claim to make for no reason on D3.

Simply put, it's possible we are looking at a 8T-3M-1S setup. But it's also possible that you are lying and we just have a 9T-3M setup. On the outside, we have a 8T-4M setup with a Mafia handicap of no NK on N1 to balance things out.

We don't know and we can't know until you flip. Your death will provide us with that info and lessen the distraction. It is what it is.

Shanti · June 11, 2017

I just caught up. I need to re-read, what odd f6 f7 and 3p? All this stuff is confusing me so much I can't focus.

One thing I need is to hear from Adella and Dice. Dice defended Nyn. Adella full I attacked me stating she 95% believed I was scum, yet wouldn't move vote to CuthaNyn which I was right about. Serious loss for us with Tigs, sucks she felt the need to reveal to defend me. But, at least I was right about the hydra which treks me I need to re-read interactions involving them.

Until terminology is explained, I can't even begin to focus on the BFG situation. I'll check in soon

DPR · June 11, 2017

DPR thinks I'm 3P, not mafia. If he thought I was fake claiming as mafia I might agree

I'm also interested in the Cuth/nyn defence as I don't recall town-hunting from his town play, but I don't remember his mafia game, so that may be null

Oh, I absolutely think you're mafia. That's why Im voting you.

If you were really a Survivor, you wouldn't have claimed when you did. It doesn't resolve anything - it only brings more distraction into the game

Bolded, see second quote below and try again :p

I've already been shot once. I have no night survivability at this point.

HARDCLAIM SURVIVOR win con F6

The wincon is important because it means I can't mafia side at lylo (since the game didn't start 8v4v1)

Which means I am now self resolving

I was shot N1, I would guess PR hunting since I was quiet although I would have thought that Nyn would know that activity is dependent on time so vig is possible

I don't trust this one bit. If we haven't won by F6, you are going down. Town wouldn't claim this. Mafia might. On the off chance you are telling the truth, I will let you have your win before you die.

I'll comment on your first post in a minute, but this one needs to be addressed first:

You state above that this is obviously not a Town claim. Why let her have the claim win con?

Because if she's mafia we can lynch her at f6 and be fine. It's not an urgent resolution.

And if she's telling the truth, we can hunt the last 2 between now and then. (Assuming a team of 3 in a game this size)

Worst case scenario is we mislynch the next 2 days and she's telling the truth. Cuz that would be lylo.

By then we will have more information to decide if she's actually mafia or not.

Point is her claim isn't something we have to worry about now.

Not a good look.

The actual point is, you spot scum and you kill scum. Letting them live a little longer never works in the Town's favor. Per her own admission, she doesn't count as as Town so resolve the spot now.

I also tend to be skeptical of claims made directly after Cops are out of the game.

Seems like it might have made more sense to wait and watch. Not like you were going to be viewed, so why rush a reveal?

This is surprisingly generic

There is ~always going to be a survivor debate, better to get it over with early, I'll come back to this later

And it has nothing to do with Tigs death and everything to do with mafia dying. I have guaranteed that I can't live to end game if mafia, so there's no need for town to waste time on this

And I claimed (at all) because I very rarely survive long in games, mafia have (almost certainly) tried shooting me once already

Why are you ignoring the F6 part of my claim?

Heh. You're not Town. Time to swing.

[v] BFG [/v]

Town don't win lynching survivors, they win lynching mafia. You know this, lynching me is one lynch closer to losing. The F6 part of my wincon means I can't mafia side, which means mafia want to lynch me as that moves closer to their wincon

So [v]DPR[/v]

You made all this up because I called you out D1.

Your reveal is confusing at best and shady af. Your timing just makes it worse. No you're going to omgus me for voting you. LOL.

Lol, no

I don't mechanically destroy any chances of surviving end game if mafia

Nor do I nudge Nyn day 1, if I'm bussing I bus, or I ignore her the way everyone else was

There's nothing confusing about my claim. It's entirely self-resolving

It's all a little too pat.

How convenient for you that you have the "f6" win con.

You had no pressure to reveal and you had less reason to reveal when you did. Straight up, it looks like exactly what scum would do if they wanted to preserve a player until as close to endgame as possible.

LOL at trying to show us your playbook - not much point in playing if you don't switch your game up from time to time, eh?

So your argument is that with one mafia down, I make a claim that 100% kills me at F6 for #raisins? You're not evaluating this in an honest way. I agree that trying new stuff is a good thing, but generally you try things to extend life, not guarantee death. Why won't you acknowledge what F6 means?

And why was it so important to you to defend Cuth/Nyn, when you disagree with the remove townies from the POE playbook?

And if she's telling the truth?

Not only does she lose, but we are no closer to winning.

Do you actually think she's scum. If so, why?

What if Cuth was telling the truth? Point is, she's our best pick for scum right now, no?

You commented that it's a weird win con. I commented that the timing struck me as odd. She admitted she's not Town and keeps trying to bring focus to the F6 part of her claim - if she's mafia and they have something like an extra kill, that's it for us.

You want Town to win or the 3p? If it's Town, you get rid of non-townies. Simple as that.

You're asking us to believe you are a Survivor with a BPV and an F6 wincon in a basic game.

I must politely decline.

I have no idea what the setup is for town or mafia, so have no idea how my wincon balances out, nor is it important

Why did you defend Cuth/Nyn?

The setup is potentially very important.

I've played with both and know they don't enjoy being scum. They both seemed relatively comfortable to me. I didn't see them as scum.

DPR · June 11, 2017

I just caught up. I need to re-read, what odd f6 f7 and 3p? All this stuff is confusing me so much I can't focus.

One thing I need is to hear from Adella and Dice. Dice defended Nyn. Adella full I attacked me stating she 95% believed I was scum, yet wouldn't move vote to CuthaNyn which I was right about. Serious loss for us with Tigs, sucks she felt the need to reveal to defend me. But, at least I was right about the hydra which treks me I need to re-read interactions involving them.

Until terminology is explained, I can't even begin to focus on the BFG situation. I'll check in soon

LOL - I didn't know what F6 was either. Had to ask the mod.

F6 refers to "final 6 players".

F7 would be "final 7 players".

3P is third party (Survivor is not Town or Scum - same neutral alignment as a Serial Killer (SK) or others).

BFG · June 11, 2017

Random thoughts while reading through

I kind of want to be lazy with Shad and say town cos 230rule. His town read because he doesn't think I go up against him as mafia is ~fair (especially compared to Nyn's later read - i.e. Nyn's read was a shallow 'asking questions')

Cass wins the first to start game play brownie points, but none of it's stuff that she couldn't post as mafia, there's one thing I need to look out for Day 2 onwards, not sure Cass researches mafia sites for games as mafia, but that's not enough for a town read at this point

Lots of talk about Shanti, but I'm not ready to give her a town read for early game tone, later interactions with Nyn are far more clearing

Cass · June 11, 2017

HARDCLAIM SURVIVOR win con F6

The wincon is important because it means I can't mafia side at lylo (since the game didn't start 8v4v1)

Which means I am now self resolving

I was shot N1, I would guess PR hunting since I was quiet although I would have thought that Nyn would know that activity is dependent on time so vig is possible

My head hurts so much already with this but I think I need to understand it properly rather than just skim past.

Someone/multiple someones break down the math for me pls? Options for balance with 13plaers are ???? 9v3v1 or 9v4 +??extra strength in Town PRs??? (right? :unsure: )

Is this 'vig is possible' discussion generator a possible scum move to out PRs, like whatever happened to cause no deaths n1/any others that exist?

TLDR opinions /info on whether 4 scum (without a 3p) can be a thing here, please?

BFG · June 11, 2017

DPR thinks I'm 3P, not mafia. If he thought I was fake claiming as mafia I might agree

I'm also interested in the Cuth/nyn defence as I don't recall town-hunting from his town play, but I don't remember his mafia game, so that may be null

Oh, I absolutely think you're mafia. That's why Im voting you.

If you were really a Survivor, you wouldn't have claimed when you did. It doesn't resolve anything - it only brings more distraction into the game

Bolded, see second quote below and try again :p

I've already been shot once. I have no night survivability at this point.

HARDCLAIM SURVIVOR win con F6

The wincon is important because it means I can't mafia side at lylo (since the game didn't start 8v4v1)

Which means I am now self resolving

I was shot N1, I would guess PR hunting since I was quiet although I would have thought that Nyn would know that activity is dependent on time so vig is possible

I don't trust this one bit. If we haven't won by F6, you are going down. Town wouldn't claim this. Mafia might. On the off chance you are telling the truth, I will let you have your win before you die.

I'll comment on your first post in a minute, but this one needs to be addressed first:

You state above that this is obviously not a Town claim. Why let her have the claim win con?

Because if she's mafia we can lynch her at f6 and be fine. It's not an urgent resolution.

And if she's telling the truth, we can hunt the last 2 between now and then. (Assuming a team of 3 in a game this size)

Worst case scenario is we mislynch the next 2 days and she's telling the truth. Cuz that would be lylo.

By then we will have more information to decide if she's actually mafia or not.

Point is her claim isn't something we have to worry about now.

Not a good look.

The actual point is, you spot scum and you kill scum. Letting them live a little longer never works in the Town's favor. Per her own admission, she doesn't count as as Town so resolve the spot now.

I also tend to be skeptical of claims made directly after Cops are out of the game.

Seems like it might have made more sense to wait and watch. Not like you were going to be viewed, so why rush a reveal?

This is surprisingly generic

There is ~always going to be a survivor debate, better to get it over with early, I'll come back to this later

And it has nothing to do with Tigs death and everything to do with mafia dying. I have guaranteed that I can't live to end game if mafia, so there's no need for town to waste time on this

And I claimed (at all) because I very rarely survive long in games, mafia have (almost certainly) tried shooting me once already

Why are you ignoring the F6 part of my claim?

Heh. You're not Town. Time to swing.

[v] BFG [/v]

Town don't win lynching survivors, they win lynching mafia. You know this, lynching me is one lynch closer to losing. The F6 part of my wincon means I can't mafia side, which means mafia want to lynch me as that moves closer to their wincon

So [v]DPR[/v]

You made all this up because I called you out D1.

Your reveal is confusing at best and shady af. Your timing just makes it worse. No you're going to omgus me for voting you. LOL.

Lol, no

I don't mechanically destroy any chances of surviving end game if mafia

Nor do I nudge Nyn day 1, if I'm bussing I bus, or I ignore her the way everyone else was

There's nothing confusing about my claim. It's entirely self-resolving

It's all a little too pat.

How convenient for you that you have the "f6" win con.

You had no pressure to reveal and you had less reason to reveal when you did. Straight up, it looks like exactly what scum would do if they wanted to preserve a player until as close to endgame as possible.

LOL at trying to show us your playbook - not much point in playing if you don't switch your game up from time to time, eh?

So your argument is that with one mafia down, I make a claim that 100% kills me at F6 for #raisins? You're not evaluating this in an honest way. I agree that trying new stuff is a good thing, but generally you try things to extend life, not guarantee death. Why won't you acknowledge what F6 means?

And why was it so important to you to defend Cuth/Nyn, when you disagree with the remove townies from the POE playbook?

And if she's telling the truth?

Not only does she lose, but we are no closer to winning.

Do you actually think she's scum. If so, why?

What if Cuth was telling the truth? Point is, she's our best pick for scum right now, no?

You commented that it's a weird win con. I commented that the timing struck me as odd. She admitted she's not Town and keeps trying to bring focus to the F6 part of her claim - if she's mafia and they have something like an extra kill, that's it for us.

You want Town to win or the 3p? If it's Town, you get rid of non-townies. Simple as that.

You're asking us to believe you are a Survivor with a BPV and an F6 wincon in a basic game.

I must politely decline.

I have no idea what the setup is for town or mafia, so have no idea how my wincon balances out, nor is it important

Why did you defend Cuth/Nyn?

The setup is potentially very important.

I've played with both and know they don't enjoy being scum. They both seemed relatively comfortable to me. I didn't see them as scum.

But you don't approach games from a POE viewpoint, you approach from a hunt scum viewpoint. So why bother clearing/defending people who were under little pressure prior to the cop reveal?

Sorry I can't snip easily on my tablet, hence spoilering instead

Shanti · June 11, 2017

I just caught up. I need to re-read, what odd f6 f7 and 3p? All this stuff is confusing me so much I can't focus.

One thing I need is to hear from Adella and Dice. Dice defended Nyn. Adella full I attacked me stating she 95% believed I was scum, yet wouldn't move vote to CuthaNyn which I was right about. Serious loss for us with Tigs, sucks she felt the need to reveal to defend me. But, at least I was right about the hydra which treks me I need to re-read interactions involving them.

Until terminology is explained, I can't even begin to focus on the BFG situation. I'll check in soon

LOL - I didn't know what F6 was either. Had to ask the mod.

F6 refers to "final 6 players".

F7 would be "final 7 players".

3P is third party (Survivor is not Town or Scum - same neutral alignment as a Serial Killer (SK) or others).

Lol thank you. I was so lost that I reread the same post like 4 times and my eyes glazed over.

BFG · June 11, 2017

HARDCLAIM SURVIVOR win con F6

The wincon is important because it means I can't mafia side at lylo (since the game didn't start 8v4v1)

Which means I am now self resolving

I was shot N1, I would guess PR hunting since I was quiet although I would have thought that Nyn would know that activity is dependent on time so vig is possible

My head hurts so much already with this but I think I need to understand it properly rather than just skim past.

Someone/multiple someones break down the math for me pls? Options for balance with 13plaers are ???? 9v3v1 or 9v4 +??extra strength in Town PRs??? (right? )

Is this 'vig is possible' discussion generator a possible scum move to out PRs, like whatever happened to cause no deaths n1/any others that exist?

TLDR opinions /info on whether 4 scum (without a 3p) can be a thing here, please?

I can link you to 13 player setups from Sooh. Shad will be able to answer if there are any basic 4 player mafia teams in the database, but I don't recall any since I started. I think Wombat ran a 14 player game with 4 mafia once, but had double voters and extra PR and stuff

Sooh's most recent basic games I can recall were 9vt, 1 watcher vs 3 goons, and 2 masons, 1 doc, 7vt vs 2 goons and a RB

4 player team isn't an option, but I appreciate you won't trust my opinion on this :p

BFG · June 11, 2017

I just caught up. I need to re-read, what odd f6 f7 and 3p? All this stuff is confusing me so much I can't focus.

One thing I need is to hear from Adella and Dice. Dice defended Nyn. Adella full I attacked me stating she 95% believed I was scum, yet wouldn't move vote to CuthaNyn which I was right about. Serious loss for us with Tigs, sucks she felt the need to reveal to defend me. But, at least I was right about the hydra which treks me I need to re-read interactions involving them.

Until terminology is explained, I can't even begin to focus on the BFG situation. I'll check in soon

LOL - I didn't know what F6 was either. Had to ask the mod.

F6 refers to "final 6 players".

F7 would be "final 7 players".

3P is third party (Survivor is not Town or Scum - same neutral alignment as a Serial Killer (SK) or others).

Lol thank you. I was so lost that I reread the same post like 4 times and my eyes glazed over.

Sorry, in English

I've claimed that at 6 players remaining I'm removed from the game/win

With 2 players alive, mafia can't win until 3 players alive

Shanti · June 11, 2017

I just caught up. I need to re-read, what odd f6 f7 and 3p? All this stuff is confusing me so much I can't focus.

One thing I need is to hear from Adella and Dice. Dice defended Nyn. Adella full I attacked me stating she 95% believed I was scum, yet wouldn't move vote to CuthaNyn which I was right about. Serious loss for us with Tigs, sucks she felt the need to reveal to defend me. But, at least I was right about the hydra which treks me I need to re-read interactions involving them.

Until terminology is explained, I can't even begin to focus on the BFG situation. I'll check in soon

LOL - I didn't know what F6 was either. Had to ask the mod.

F6 refers to "final 6 players".

F7 would be "final 7 players".

3P is third party (Survivor is not Town or Scum - same neutral alignment as a Serial Killer (SK) or others).

Lol thank you. I was so lost that I reread the same post like 4 times and my eyes glazed over.

Sorry, in English

I've claimed that at 6 players remaining I'm removed from the game/win

With 2 players alive, mafia can't win until 3 players alive

Thank you.

[Game thread]Magic The Gathering

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