[Advanced] Old West Mischief Mafia - Town Wins!

[Lizabeth]

Now you're really making me think about it BFG :P

 

I think the reason I used it here and the reason that I used it in Orphan Black (if I did...I know I did a really long post explaining why the player was the SK and no one paid attention to it) is that I'm trying to find a way to communicate the idea of what I'm seeing to different people who don't seem to be getting it when I explain it one way first.

 

Like, I explained pretty clearly in a few simple posts why Darthe's mindset slip followed by the lie basically guaranteed that he was scum, but people didn't seem to get it (other than the Cuth and Seph who already saw it and Eldrick after I explained it in full).

 

So I try explaining it in story form and people still dont' seem to get it. :(

 

If you see it, can you please try explaining it to people?

[The Crusher]

Getting ready for second dinner. See you guys at 10. Love you all.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

What's the case on Tiinker?

slapped a vote on liz for no reason has made snarky comments every now and then, little helpful, wasn't on notbob iirc  is part of the dpr/crusher-thinky group

 

DPR/Thinky group? Snarky comments = scum? Well hell then, this game easier than I thought.[v]cloviz[/v]

 

hehehehehehe

 

I missed you today. Waited till you got back to vote you.

 

Awww, that's sweet pumpkin <3

 

But you realize why that's a tactical error, right?

 

Seriously, you're making this so much fun :D

[BFG]

Cuth

Eldrick

Seph

Liz

WiFi

 

DPR*

Cass*

 

Kronos

Hallia

Crusher

 

Tinker?

 

Darthe?

 

Dice

 

Roughly ordered

 

I don't have many reasons beyond 'gut' 'vibe' 'feels' which I sort of hate, but /YOLO

[BFG]

Now you're really making me think about it BFG :P

 

I think the reason I used it here and the reason that I used it in Orphan Black (if I did...I know I did a really long post explaining why the player was the SK and no one paid attention to it) is that I'm trying to find a way to communicate the idea of what I'm seeing to different people who don't seem to be getting it when I explain it one way first.

 

Like, I explained pretty clearly in a few simple posts why Darthe's mindset slip followed by the lie basically guaranteed that he was scum, but people didn't seem to get it (other than the Cuth and Seph who already saw it and Eldrick after I explained it in full).

 

So I try explaining it in story form and people still dont' seem to get it. :(

 

If you see it, can you please try explaining it to people?

Honestly that's what I figured (explanation type thing) lol, I'll try - want to spend some time doing thread homework on Dice though first

[BFG]

 

 

 

Liz, you made a massive post pointing out who kept momentum going on your train (unless I'm misre,embering horribly) who do you think is most likely scum out of that group?

Right now I'm thinking Darthe > Crusher > Tinker > DPR in more or less that order.Have you played with the last 3 before? I'm trying to figure out how much to make of the inconsistencies I'm seeing in their posts vs. actions.

 

:blush:I don't think I've ever played with DPR, although I subbed into a game after he'd been lynched (I was mafia though so didn't pay much attention to what he'd posted)Pretty sure I've played with Tiinker, and modded games he's played; couldn't begin to tell you how he plays though, he's mostly played while I've been on an intermittent break and I don't remember much from mafia in the last 6 monthsCrusher again, I've modded a game he was in, I don't remember if we've played a game or not thoughSo basically no help

 

Never played together but yes you modded a game I played in. Glad your in.

 

<3 likewise happy to play with you :)

[BFG]

 

This is going to be hard :(

It's not really. How caught up are you?

 

 

 

i agree with the sen

 

 

 

This is going to be hard :(

It's not really. How caught up are you?

 

i agree with the sentiments in this post

 

Eh 500-1000 scattered posts, I'm missing most of the build up of your train, I think I've caught most of Day 2 but was distracted by fun things like killing mosquitoes for parts of it and without Day 1 context I'm a bit wary of my opinions

[Lizabeth]

When you go back and look at NB's moves, you'll see that his last vote was to move off Kizzy's train to Eldrick's. 

 

When he did, Kizzy's vote count dropped to 5. NB's vote count was already at 5, and the momentum had been building on his train and dropping on hers.

 

Ergo, suicide as he - scum - intentionally voted to put his train even with another player's.

Hmmm...that is interesting...I wonder what we should make of that *cough*

 

I actually thought his last vote was on us. I forgot he moved over to Eldrick. But can I also remind you that he and certain others were hoping that Seph would move over to Eldrick since that's who Seph was saying he wanted to vote?

 

If my theory is correct (and I believe it is...but of course I do, because it's my theory :P) then that was just another desperate attempt to shift the train to the second wagon.

 

Sooh moves to NB at 1082, making it three votes.

 

Eldrick Moved to NB at 1100 making it 4 votes.

 

Seph moved to NB at 1117 and started making the plea for other people to move. (seph is now 5 votes)

 

NotBob moves to Eldrick at 1132. (which by the way, makes no sense if Eldrick is his team mate)

 

The ship was already sinking. I noted in my notes that certain people were trying to nudge Seph in Eldrick's direction. But Seph stayed on NB (again, makes no sense if Seph is NB's team mate) and then finally Darthe and Crusher abandon ship and vote for NB (which makes no sense if they ended the day thinking MrsClov/me were sure scum).

 

Let me know if I'm missing somethign from the sequence. I'm reading MrsClov's chart and eating dinner at the same time, but I think that's correct.

[Lizabeth]

 

Now you're really making me think about it BFG :P

 

I think the reason I used it here and the reason that I used it in Orphan Black (if I did...I know I did a really long post explaining why the player was the SK and no one paid attention to it) is that I'm trying to find a way to communicate the idea of what I'm seeing to different people who don't seem to be getting it when I explain it one way first.

 

Like, I explained pretty clearly in a few simple posts why Darthe's mindset slip followed by the lie basically guaranteed that he was scum, but people didn't seem to get it (other than the Cuth and Seph who already saw it and Eldrick after I explained it in full).

 

So I try explaining it in story form and people still dont' seem to get it. :(

 

If you see it, can you please try explaining it to people?

Honestly that's what I figured (explanation type thing) lol, I'll try - want to spend some time doing thread homework on Dice though first

 

Yeah, there's stuff that's been bothering us about Dice too. Glad you're looking into it because he gets mad at us and tells us we're icky every time we do

 

But Darthe isn't even a question for us right now.

[Kaylee]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

 

Miss Kizzy Clov (3) - DPR, WiFi, Crusher

 

Tiink (1) - Cuth

 

Darthe (2) - Eldrick, Miss Kitty Clov

 

Eldrick (3) - Kronos, Darthe, Tiink

 

Not Voting: Cass, Hallia, Dice, BFG, Seph

 

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to string 'em up!

 

Deadline for Day 2 is Friday, 2/17/17 at 9AM MST  

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

But what do you think of the fact that cuth and seph were basically responsible for NB getting lynched? If in your scenario Darthe is town, why not flip the lynch onto him isntead of a teammate who was basically flying under the radar up until then?

 

And you've been at perc? What's your username there?

1. I think that was already mentioned: He was low on the totem pole and they were looking for deep wolf equity. Darthe likes to bus don't know about the rest of you.

 

2. no I haven't been at perc....don't even know what perc is??

 

1. No, you're missing the point wifi.

 

I know you said you don't understanding wagonomics, but this is what I'm saying.

 

Cuth was probably the first person to get all riled up about the infamous post 309. He's the one who started saying there is no way that post could come from town. Actually, when you look at the vote count, he put his vote on us at #300, before that post was even made.

 

Eldrick was on us even earlier. First at 93 and then again at 424.

 

Seph was on us from 277. Again, long before the infamous post 309.

 

So what you're saying is that our 3 team mates built a wagon on us over nothing. But if we're so important to the team, why would they do that.

 

But add in this fact. Cuth unovtes us at 436. Seph and Eldrick followed after that. But then crusher tinker and notbob rebuild the wagon.

 

Now, notbob did not focus on pretty much anyone else but us (and to a lesser extent eldrick) all day long. He had no other real suspects at all, unless you count his first vote on Darthe, which darthe said he would do before he did it.

 

What kind of dumbass scum team focuses only on it's team mates for a whole damn game? That would be ridiculous.

 

There is one mafia team member who's identity we know for sure. That's NotBob.

 

We know that instead of seekign other candidates (dice woudl have been a good one, darthe would have been even better) our scum team decided to bus each other for an entire day adn then build a wagon on another member at the end of the day with no effort to find other targets?

 

That's dumb.

 

But now look at what happened with Darthe.

 

Darthe does not sus NB at all for a whole day. All day he's claiming that mrsclov/me are scum and his backup is eldrick.

 

But what does he do when he sees a build up on NB?

 

Does he say, lolguys go ahead. Doesn't matter who gets lynched because i thin they're all town, but I'm most sure of lizzy/clov who I've insisted all day will flip scum?

 

No. He does not. First he preps and says "oh, i might vote over there"

 

Then he says "okay, i'll vote over there"

 

Then after nb flips scum he says "but lizzyclov is still scum. let's lynch them!"

 

But then when I ask him what made him jump off our lynch in the first place, he says that he started to think we should have a chance to prove ourselves.

 

Except that's not true. Because immediately after the flip he says that we're scum for sure and need to be lynched.

 

does that make sense?

 

If someone's going to bus a team mate, does it make sense for them to bus one team mate all day and then bus the other one at the end of the day?

 

Or does it make more sense for someone to bus a team mate when that team mate's wagon is building steam at the end of the day so they can appear like they had town's interests at heart?

 

Except that darthe didn't even remember to pretend to have town's interest at heart, because he didn't vote NB to save a town read or even a null read. His statements after the flip said that he was voting a supposedly weaker scum read over his strongest scum read.

 

He can't have it both ways.

 

You sure do talk a lot for someone with so little to say.

 

And you don't talk enough, cornpie :(

 

You still haven't adressed post 1189. It hurts me when you ignore me *cough*

[Lizabeth]

Meh, i'm feeling lazy

 

Do i need to read it all or can we just get on with it and lynch darthe today?

 

(i'm kidding, I'll read it all *sigh*)

[Wildfire Sedai]

Well its bedtime for me.  I don't know what to talk about in next 15 min so I am getting ready early.  I will probably not be on for deadline tomorrow as I have bkfst, shower, PT/OT in morning and maybe even into afternoon.  I took today off mental health day that being said my vote is still going to stay on liz/clov. as she has the most equity for deep wolf, imo.

[BFG]

Well its bedtime for me.  I don't know what to talk about in next 15 min so I am getting ready early.  I will probably not be on for deadline tomorrow as I have bkfst, shower, PT/OT in morning and maybe even into afternoon.  I took today off mental health day that being said my vote is still going to stay on liz/clov. as she has the most equity for deep wolf, imo.

Why are you voting for a deep wolf possibility over anything else?

[Lizabeth]

 

 

This is going to be hard :(

It's not really. How caught up are you?

 

 

 

i agree with the sen

 

 

 

 

This is going to be hard :(

It's not really. How caught up are you?

 

i agree with the sentiments in this post

 

Eh 500-1000 scattered posts, I'm missing most of the build up of your train, I think I've caught most of Day 2 but was distracted by fun things like killing mosquitoes for parts of it and without Day 1 context I'm a bit wary of my opinions

 

Okay. Have you read the end of day yet and transition over into night? And have you seen MrsClov's voting chart?

 

The main thing we've been trying to explain to people about Darthe's progression is this:

 

Darthe started the day tunneling us. Basically went through the whole day until the last couple of hour saying he knew for a fact we were scum and he was going to make sure that we died that day.

 

A train built up on us started by Darthe and Dice, then Cuth, Seph, and Eldrick joined. We went around in circles after I made a comment that if they thought we were scum, who else would be on our team (gotta learn to play to the right crowds, because apparently only scum say that in some people's minds).

Eventually I demonstrated that I've made similar statements as town, so the argument that only scum would say it was invalid.

 

Cuth started seeing us as likely town and got off our train, and encouraged seph to do so too. Seph and Eldrick left our train. Then DPR voted us followed by Tinker and Crusher and eventually NB.

 

Cuth wanted to save us and he voted NB. I became convinced that darthe and DPR were just wrangly town (mrsclov wasn't convinced ftr) and we voted notbob.

 

Then, as I explained earlier, sooh voted NB, followed by eldrick and seph.

 

Seph said he wanted to vote for eldrick. NB voted Eldrick.

 

Darthe comes in and sees the trains building on NB and Eldrick and says he likes all 3 and might move his vote to another train. (Note that he had also been saying he thought that Eldrick was scum alongside me/MrsClov - we were pretty much his only suspects all day from what I remember. someone can correct me if i'm wrong).

 

Eventually Darthe and Crusher moved their votes over to NotBob as it's gettign close to the end of the day and Seph isn't biting at jumping on the Eldrick train and nobody else is joining our train. (yes, i know that's editorial, but I hope you see why I'm pointing that out).

 

Kronos joined last, after having been away from the thread most of the day.

 

After NB flipped red, Darthe says that MrsClov/me are still scum (that's the post #1189 i keep pointing out).

 

Note that I did not come into the thread again until much later. This is important...

 

I ask Darthe why he moved his vote from us if we were his strongest scum read all game.

 

His answer was that he had always suspected NB and was starting to think that maybe we could be town and should be given a chance.

 

I point out to him that htat's a lie, since I wasn't even in the thread after the flip when he made the statement that we were still scum.

 

He disappears.

 

And everytime I ask him to resolve the discrepancy, he goes from bravado and makign demeaning comments (before I ask the question) to complete silence (after I ask the question.

[The Crusher]

 

 

 

 

 

What's the case on Tiinker?

slapped a vote on liz for no reason has made snarky comments every now and then, little helpful, wasn't on notbob iirc  is part of the dpr/crusher-thinky group

DPR/Thinky group? Snarky comments = scum? Well hell then, this game easier than I thought.[v]cloviz[/v]

hehehehehehe

I missed you today. Waited till you got back to vote you.

Awww, that's sweet pumpkin <3But you realize why that's a tactical error, right? :wink:Seriously, you're making this so much fun :D

It's a labor of love sarsaparilla. I leave tactics to the brainy kids.

[Lizabeth]

Well its bedtime for me.  I don't know what to talk about in next 15 min so I am getting ready early.  I will probably not be on for deadline tomorrow as I have bkfst, shower, PT/OT in morning and maybe even into afternoon.  I took today off mental health day that being said my vote is still going to stay on liz/clov. as she has the most equity for deep wolf, imo.

*snip*

 

Gonna let BFG handle this one

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's the case on Tiinker?

slapped a vote on liz for no reason has made snarky comments every now and then, little helpful, wasn't on notbob iirc  is part of the dpr/crusher-thinky group

 

DPR/Thinky group? Snarky comments = scum? Well hell then, this game easier than I thought.[v]cloviz[/v]

 

hehehehehehe

 

I missed you today. Waited till you got back to vote you.

 

Awww, that's sweet pumpkin <3But you realize why that's a tactical error, right? :wink:Seriously, you're making this so much fun :D

 

It's a labor of love sarsaparilla. I leave tactics to the brainy kids.

 

Well, given how your team's tactics played out yesterday and today *cough*

 

But okay. I'll explain it to you after Darthe flips.

[The Crusher]

 

When you go back and look at NB's moves, you'll see that his last vote was to move off Kizzy's train to Eldrick's.  When he did, Kizzy's vote count dropped to 5. NB's vote count was already at 5, and the momentum had been building on his train and dropping on hers. Ergo, suicide as he - scum - intentionally voted to put his train even with another player's.

Hmmm...that is interesting...I wonder what we should make of that *cough*I actually thought his last vote was on us. I forgot he moved over to Eldrick. But can I also remind you that he and certain others were hoping that Seph would move over to Eldrick since that's who Seph was saying he wanted to vote?If my theory is correct (and I believe it is...but of course I do, because it's my theory :P) then that was just another desperate attempt to shift the train to the second wagon.Sooh moves to NB at 1082, making it three votes.Eldrick Moved to NB at 1100 making it 4 votes.Seph moved to NB at 1117 and started making the plea for other people to move. (seph is now 5 votes)NotBob moves to Eldrick at 1132. (which by the way, makes no sense if Eldrick is his team mate)The ship was already sinking. I noted in my notes that certain people were trying to nudge Seph in Eldrick's direction. But Seph stayed on NB (again, makes no sense if Seph is NB's team mate) and then finally Darthe and Crusher abandon ship and vote for NB (which makes no sense if they ended the day thinking MrsClov/me were sure scum).Let me know if I'm missing somethign from the sequence. I'm reading MrsClov's chart and eating dinner at the same time, but I think that's correct.

. It's so cute how you do the little things. You put Darthe before me to make it look like I was the last one. You say last to abandon ship like it was determined yet I moved before Darthe and was the lynch vote. Not late or after Darthe but the actual hammer. Also I explained it thoroughly and it's also very clear in my post my reasoning. Yet you make it sound sudden and panicked. But go ahead and tell it your way. It's special. Like a poopy pie. Wow. Your like little Scumetella, The princess of deception. .

[Lizabeth]

 

 

He might be a little lavish at doing so, but he's put a significant amount of work into legitimate scum hunting.  He's not relying on tone and meta - he is instead questioning motives and pretty solidly sticks to them.  It screams town to me.

Where did you see scumhunting? I know I might be biased, but what I've seen is tunneling. Where have you seen him actually trying to explore someone else's alignment?

 

 

And I'm starting to think that I might have a different definition for "scumhunting" than a lot of you people do...

 

 

You are like a lady magician. Turn anything someone says into whatever you want it to be . You ask him why he thinks DPR is town, he answers scum hunting , you response is us people don't be knowing scum hunting like Lizabeth be knowing scum hunting. Holy hell dear are you by any chance Kin to integrity28 also known as John McClane here? He retired from mafia. I missed him deeply. I hope you never leave me.

 

No, my response is asking you to explain what you mean by scumhunting.

 

It's easy to attach labels to things without definitions.

 

Here's my definition of scumhunting:

 

1) read the thread (that's a bit of a shout out to MrClov :P)

2) take not of things that you see in the thread and think about different possibiilties for what that might mean

3) ask questions about what you saw. Ask people to explain their statements and actions.

4) if you dont' get a satisfactory resolution, follow up

5) if you get a satisfactory resolution, move on to another issue to follow up

6) collaaborate with other people to explore what they might be seeing that you're not seeing

(note that you can be doing 1 through 5 simultaneously)

6) don't rinse, but repeat.

 

That's the simple answer.

 

Okay, now your turn. What is scumhunting to you?

 

And can I just explain that I know what you're doing? You keep criticizing the quality of my posts but you rarely respond to the content. And the effect that I assume you're hoping for (if i'm right about your alignment, which I'm increasingly thinking that I am) is taht people will disregard what I say because you keep saying it's nonsense or that I'm trying to tell other people what to think.

 

And yet you responded to a post where I asked you very specific questions by just referencing the fluff part and calling me a poopy head. I wasn't offended, but it's an example of the pattern you've shown all game. Adn the same one that Darthe has shown all game. And that DPR was showing up until D2 when he started putting more effort into his work.

[Cuth]

Cuth

Eldrick

Seph

Liz

WiFi

 

DPR*

Cass*

 

Kronos

Hallia

Crusher

 

Tinker?

 

Darthe?

 

Dice

 

Roughly ordered

 

I don't have many reasons beyond 'gut' 'vibe' 'feels' which I sort of hate, but /YOLO

well

 

if nothing else i am very thoroughly in your pocket

 

since dice is a different color, would you mind explaining why?

[Lizabeth]

 

 

When you go back and look at NB's moves, you'll see that his last vote was to move off Kizzy's train to Eldrick's.  When he did, Kizzy's vote count dropped to 5. NB's vote count was already at 5, and the momentum had been building on his train and dropping on hers. Ergo, suicide as he - scum - intentionally voted to put his train even with another player's.

Hmmm...that is interesting...I wonder what we should make of that *cough*I actually thought his last vote was on us. I forgot he moved over to Eldrick. But can I also remind you that he and certain others were hoping that Seph would move over to Eldrick since that's who Seph was saying he wanted to vote?If my theory is correct (and I believe it is...but of course I do, because it's my theory :P) then that was just another desperate attempt to shift the train to the second wagon.Sooh moves to NB at 1082, making it three votes.Eldrick Moved to NB at 1100 making it 4 votes.Seph moved to NB at 1117 and started making the plea for other people to move. (seph is now 5 votes)NotBob moves to Eldrick at 1132. (which by the way, makes no sense if Eldrick is his team mate)The ship was already sinking. I noted in my notes that certain people were trying to nudge Seph in Eldrick's direction. But Seph stayed on NB (again, makes no sense if Seph is NB's team mate) and then finally Darthe and Crusher abandon ship and vote for NB (which makes no sense if they ended the day thinking MrsClov/me were sure scum).Let me know if I'm missing somethign from the sequence. I'm reading MrsClov's chart and eating dinner at the same time, but I think that's correct.

 

. It's so cute how you do the little things. You put Darthe before me to make it look like I was the last one. You say last to abandon ship like it was determined yet I moved before Darthe and was the lynch vote. Not late or after Darthe but the actual hammer. Also I explained it thoroughly and it's also very clear in my post my reasoning. Yet you make it sound sudden and panicked. But go ahead and tell it your way. It's special. Like a poopy pie. Wow. Your like little Scumetella, The princess of deception. .

 

Umm, no. It doesn't matter which order you two were in. The emphasis was on Darthe. Sorry if I got the order wrong. That's why I asked people to check my work, pumpkin. Thanks for doing that <3

 

 

(you don't mind if I call you pumpkin, do you? It makes MRsClov giggle and I like to make her happy :) )

[The Crusher]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's the case on Tiinker?

slapped a vote on liz for no reason has made snarky comments every now and then, little helpful, wasn't on notbob iirc  is part of the dpr/crusher-thinky group

DPR/Thinky group? Snarky comments = scum? Well hell then, this game easier than I thought.[v]cloviz[/v]

hehehehehehe

I missed you today. Waited till you got back to vote you.

Awww, that's sweet pumpkin <3But you realize why that's a tactical error, right? :wink:Seriously, you're making this so much fun :D

It's a labor of love sarsaparilla. I leave tactics to the brainy kids.

Well, given how your team's tactics played out yesterday and today *cough*But okay. I'll explain it to you after Darthe flips.

My team caught scum Day 1 and after we lynch, you Day 2 as well. 2 for 2. Honestly would have liked to just lynch both of you Day 1. Save the bandwidth. You are a dream weaver. I hope some day you come play with me at my board. I got my very own mafia board. It's a bit different than most.

[Cuth]

can we not do the whole "team" thing

 

i think it's actively scum-sided 

[Lizabeth]

Also I explained it thoroughly and it's also very clear in my post my reasoning. Yet you make it sound sudden and panicked. But go ahead and tell it your way. It's special. Like a poopy pie. Wow. Your like little Scumetella, The princess of deception. .

Oh yes, with regards to this, you reminded me. I noted this in my observations post.

 

you gave a lot of explanation about it. maybe too much explanation. And it bothered me, and I asked you about this - if you know NB's meta so well, why did it take Sooh and Seph's cases to convince you?

 

If i know someone's meta really well, they're the first people I try to sort out. Makes the game a whole lot easier if I can figure out my easy reads first.

 

But I don't recall you ever trying to explore NB at all. It wasn't until his train started building that you decided to move over. And yes you hammered him, but I also explained why that can be seen as a viable strategy as scum.

 

Now I think it was a tactical error in this case, but I can see why you might have thought it was the best move at the time.

 

And WIFI already explained how Darthe thinks about bussing as scum.