Fremen vs Aiel

[paetric]

So I'm a huge fan of Dune. I read Dune way back when and forgot about it. A couple years ago I picked it back up and devoured the series.

 

I've been surprised to find out that a lot of people here haven't read Dune and I'm shocked. So the Aiel vs Fremen, Stillgar vs Rhuarc and has RJ had a single original thought when it comes to the Aiel has become standard questions.

 

So I'm wondering if anyone thinks RJ didn't lift the Aiel directly from Dune?

 

Discuss.

[paetric]

We'll discuss the Bene Gesserrit vs Aes Sedai next week.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

complete ripoff by RJ here, and a very lame one. washed out all the honor, strength, integrity, independence, magnificence, and sheer determination of the fremen.

 

anyone who hasn't read dune really has to, and not just to see this lift for what it was. theft, pure and simple. and badly done.

 

i knew chani, and aviendah's no chani. nor is rhuarc.

[paetric]

Yeah this argument/non argument aside, if you haven't read Dune you really should. It is one of the classics. Dune will mesmerize you.

 

Skip all the Kevin J Anderson, Kevin Herbert books though.

 

Dune

Dune Messiah

Children of Dune

 

are masterpieces.

[Gabriel Kross]

Why can't you just take a book for what it is who cares if the original idea was ripped from something else he still made it his own, like the DM copyright rule say you can't copyright an idea, it's the idea he copied not the characters so in since just take it for what it is and enjoy it, you obviously enjoyed the books if you're here so stop bashing it now that you're here it doesn't change the fact that you thought the books were good just because you found out where the idea for a people came from does it? if so news flash the Domani probably came from gypsy like stereotypes or like the people in Aladdin (notice the dress style for Jasmine compared to the similarish style of domani women) just sayin

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

and the next couple aren't bad. better than a lot of the later WoT books.

 

i just don't get how anyone can even get to WoT or any other moders sci-fi/fantasy without having read dune... it's just... wrong.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Why can't you just take a book for what it is who cares if the original idea was ripped from something else he still made it his own, like the DM copyright rule say you can't copyright an idea, it's the idea he copied not the characters so in since just take it for what it is and enjoy it, you obviously enjoyed the books if you're here so stop bashing it now that you're here it doesn't change the fact that you thought the books were good just because you found out where the idea for a people came from does it? if so news flash the Domani probably came from gypsy like stereotypes or like the people in Aladdin (notice the dress style for Jasmine compared to the similarish style of domani women) just sayin

 

 

you haven't read dune have you?

 

and if you haven't you don't understand the scope of the thing.

[Gabriel Kross]

I saw the movie so I got the basic gist but still, my point stands

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

it's not an "homage" like the LotR bits or pirces taken from here or there.

 

it's direct aggregious ripoff, beyond anything else in the books.

 

you can like something and still see it for what it is.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I saw the movie so I got the basic gist but still, my point stands

 

 

i'm going to pretend you didn;t say that.

 

and if you ever read the books, you'll understand why.

[paetric]

Why can't you just take a book for what it is who cares if the original idea was ripped from something else he still made it his own, like the DM copyright rule say you can't copyright an idea, it's the idea he copied not the characters so in since just take it for what it is and enjoy it, you obviously enjoyed the books if you're here so stop bashing it now that you're here it doesn't change the fact that you thought the books were good just because you found out where the idea for a people came from does it? if so news flash the Domani probably came from gypsy like stereotypes or like the people in Aladdin (notice the dress style for Jasmine compared to the similarish style of domani women) just sayin

 

 

 

Where am I bashing it?

[Gabriel Kross]

ignoring the rest of this thread since aparently everyone elses opinions are wrong (fyi movies always are just a basic inactment of what's written it never fully justifies the book I've only seen 1 movie completely destroy what the book did and that was Eragon because they ruined any chance of having a second movie by detroying main enemies that would have been faced in said movie)

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

can you be any sillier?

[paetric]

The movie Dune didn't do the book any justice. They really did butcher the book.

 

The book really would be worth your read.

 

I'd still like to know where I'm bashing anything at?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i think he meant me

[WWWwombat]

A lot of authors borrow from each other. Aiel and Fremen are extremely similar, but there are Aiel aspects that were taken from other sources as well. Dune is my favorite novel and the world-building is much more impressive than WoT's imo, but I'm not pissed at RJ. Also, how does one tell the difference between homage and ripping off?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

the authors acknowledgment goes a ways.

[paetric]

A lot of authors borrow from each other. Aiel and Fremen are extremely similar, but there are Aiel aspects that were taken from other sources as well. Dune is my favorite novel and the world-building is much more impressive than WoT's imo, but I'm not pissed at RJ. Also, how does one tell the difference between homage and ripping off?

 

I'm not pissed at anyone either. I do find it odd that ppl defend RJ like they do though with comments like "Well RJ says the Fremen aren't the basis for the Aiel so they aren't"

 

I just find that kind of crazy.

[Turin Turambar]

Paet, those are the zealots that will accept no wrong from the "Creator". They are very similar but I do not mind so much as the Fremen were some of my favorite characters and I absolutely love Dune. The Feature film stunk big time but then the times were a little odd too. The treatment that SciFi did was much better.

 

A lot of people are saying the Fremen would wipe the sand with the Aiel, but I am not so sure. It might matter as to when they battled. Pre Maud'dib Fremen vs. Pre Rand Aiel would be pretty even I think.

[Guest PiotrekS]

Dune is fabulous. I love especially the first book though, the later ones got too convoluted and less interesting for me. And the computer games, Dune and Dune 2, the magic of my childchood. That night with Chani among the dunes And that haunting music...

 

I'm beginning to see the ornithopters raising from the desert and the sandworm swallowing the harverster. Damn, I need another dose of the sweet melange

 

I agree that the Aiel are extremely similar to the Fremen. I'm not very outraged by that, since the Fremen were hardly very original and unprecedented to begin with. There are also important differences between the two groups. Aviendha is definitely no Chani, while Stilgar and Rhuarc are both pretty generic types so no wonder they are similar. Strong and honorable chief of a warrior tribe and not much more can be said about either of them.

 

I love WOT, but I'll be the first to say the reason is not its originality.

 

who haven't done that already, do read Dune. It is a masterpiece.

[paetric]

Hopefully those who haven't read Dune will so they can see what we have been talking about.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

it would be a shame not to

[Talmanes]

I did quite enjoy Dune, have only read the first one so far though.

 

Personally, while I do think the concepts for Fremen and Aiel are very similar, I think it is the interaction afterwards, and the character and worldbuilding thatare done very differently that make them quite different.

 

I always looked at a same base concept, that was branched off in different ways.

[paetric]

You should read the next two books at least. You'll change your opinion then. You've barely scratched the surface dealing with the Fremen.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

and world building... lord, noone built and rebuilt worlds like herbert. not even close.

 

really book one is like an intro. like judging the WoT as a series based on the EotW.

 

my favorite book, but.... notrepresentative of the whole series, tho i wish it had been.