7 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Except Rand did not exhibit "immense respect for women" in either our modern world context or the world of the books - his attempts to prevent the maidens of the spear from participating in battles were not well received (to the point where they were willing to commit mass suicide rather than permit it to continue), his attempts to choose on behalf of women who loved him that they could not be near him had a similar effect and even in the last book Egwene had to speak severely to him about the right o each person to choose.   He was taking away their choices, in effect objectifying them or infantalising them which is not much better (ethicaly)  than the misogynist attitude of treating women as sex objects.

Here we go again.... I did not want to get into this.

Well if you think that's true, as a woman myself, who was born in a muslim country and had to face ignorant Men trying to dictate her life, I disagree with you wholeheartedly.  I understand the women's pov( aes sedais to maidens), and would've thought the same if it was a man who was anyone other than Rand Al'Thor. But even after reading and knowing his mind and inner turmoils if you still do not understand him; well If RJ couldn't convince you, what can a lowly reader like me do? 

Everyone has their own opinions, and are entiltled to it. So i would just leave it at that. If you disagree please go to another post and rant. 

9 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

But she herself plays no real part in the story in terms of role, she has no real arc, she is a character who just kind of exists, for me it is part of the reason why there is no real tension at the end. I don’t care about her enough in the books to feel any real emotion about her final fate, and it felt like there were no real stakes. In the tv show she is getting a real arc which we know will end at the last battle, 

@Scarloc99

THISSSSSSSS

Thank you! I appreciate you! 🙏 

13 hours ago, Yamezt said:

Also, for being made a warder without consent, Lan's case is more interesting IMHO because, while it was done without his consent, it was done to save him and keep him alive. Doesn't make it any less a gross violation.

 

Rand's case was just a gross violation

I also want to point out the fact that they didn’t really go anywhere with this Alanna vileness. It just another way to make rand hate the aes sedais. Which was kinda made unnecessary, as the box would serve as a solid reminder of Moiraine's words of not to trust any aes sedais. Well not unnecessary, but to play the force bonding card twice within 2 books, with two of the main characters just seemed repetitive.

Rand AND Lan got forced bonded. The wo real gentlemen! Come on robert! Are you saying being a decent man with immense respect for women will get you raped? That's what bothered me. 

And they didn't go anywhere with it. And I saw some people pointed out it gave rand the warder benefits. Yea maybe getting the girls to bond him should've been done earlier. Anyway, thats my thoughts on that vileness with Alanna. 

I know not very well thought out, but I just woke up, and every time I remember that it just boils my brain.

1 minute ago, Yamezt said:

Also, for being made a warder without consent, Lan's case is more interesting IMHO because, while it was done without his consent, it was done to save him and keep him alive. Doesn't make it any less a gross violation.

 

Rand's case was just a gross violation

Exactly 💯 

23 minutes ago, Yamezt said:

This kind of strengthen the case that they will probably merge Myrelle and Alanna unless they are going to merge Myrelle with another green.

 

Myrelle is the Aes Sedai that is rumoured to have married all her warders. Don't really need 2 like that in the show (with the existing Alanna) unless they are going for all greens like having a harem rather than warders.

Thank you for strengthening my case! ❤️

4 hours ago, Elgee said:

I never thought of combining her with Joline too ... now that's an interesting thought! Some people really disliked the Joline / Mat interactions, but personally I loved them. I really wouldn't mind that particular merge - I think the chemistry between Alanna and Mat ... wowee

 

As for merging the character with Merise ... I don't like that so much. Not saying they won't do it, it just wouldn't really work for me. Opposite type of characters like that are needed, or this world will become very flat.

I loved joline_mat_teslyn_edisina_ & the suldams interactions. That was a very good way to show Mat with aes sedais. Him,  unlike perrin and rand, mostly escaped interacting with aes sedai in earlier books.

So it was very refreshing to see Mat with not only different factions of  Aes sedai trying to maneuver, but also be a buffer between two different race(type) of channelers. 

I still think it was the creator's funniest joke on Mat that He saddled him (mat) with an unwilling channeler. Mat finally meeting the daughter of nine moons is one of my favorite aspect of his story line. That says a lot as I relate to him the most amongst the 5. I love all his storylines.

8 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

But creepy (or not in some cases, e.g. the relationship between Sleete and his Aes'Sedai) in very different ways.  Conflating all of these into Alanna would rather reduce the green to the "orgy Ajah".

Yes, I do agree that making everyone like alaana would make it an orgy ajah. But that's what the show is it making out to be 😕 and if you have noticed I mentioned only the two others who kind of are like Show Alanna. I didn't mention she will replace all other greens. I mean i could've said she will replace Careane Fransi but i didn’t. Or merise for that matter, like someone in my post mentioned.

The reason of my speculation is purely for the sake of them bringing forth the thing with Lan. And the logistics of casting people to play essentially the same kind of roles. 

Sleete is a very different person and his relationship with Hattori is an exceptional example of how greens should be. 

1 hour ago, Yamezt said:

I think there is a good chance they will merge Myrelle and Alanna.

 

If they are keeping Alanna close to Rand and Cadsuane, then I imagine they might consider Merise instead of Joline.

 

Though if they pick to merge with Merise, then they might move the harem bonding forward so that Alanna/Merise can bond Narishma.

Ohh ohh I didn't think of Merise (yes, my beautiful one) Haindehl. Why are green always so creepy with their warders 🤣🤣?

but yea, if they deecide to move her to that part of the story, then I think merise instead of joline. Good point.

32 minutes ago, Yamezt said:

Though... In saying that, Alanna taking the role of Myrelle might mean removing either Lan or Rand as the person made as a warder without consent.

 

I hope is it Rand 🙏 i always thought that was extremely unnecessary. 

On 9/25/2023 at 5:17 AM, Scarloc99 said:

Hi good to see you, there are several posts here about the show and a few people who share your opinions, but the majority of us think the show is good, we understand the reasons behind many of the artistic decisions taken and while we may disagree with some overall this is the story told in the WOT 

3 posts probably worth reading fully and then commenting on are rather then starting another one. But I will say if your expectation is a forum full of hate for the show you are in the wrong place, there are some who will agree with you to a point, but many, like me, love the show I myself have read the series end to end about 15 times and I absolutely love what they have done to tell the story, and think many of the changes have enhanced the weaker elements of the books. You also need to consider that in book 2, which is where we are, Nymaeve was petulant, Matt was under the effects of the dagger and was a bit like this Matt, Lan, some feel like you, but others of us love this change to the character as it actually gives him an arc instead of just being the Aragorn rip off you see in the start of the books, this is the Lan that RJ tried to turn Lan into later on. 

But read the posts below and feel free to comment on any points you disagree with, there is a lot of back and forth about the points you have made.  

 

 

Thanks you for this post! And your words about, this is not a place where you can just hate on the show. I appreciate that and you for saying it. I disagree with a lot but i still think the show has potential. And the fact that they are pulling on from the future storylines, and the characters arc. I completely agree with what you said about Nynaeve. The way she treats the  4 in the show, it really reflects a more mature nynaeve. Just the way she touched Mat's head in the last scene. This is nynaeve on the inside, beneath the hard shell. I think this is what RJ has been trying paint for Nynaeve to feel like. 

My prediction:

Alanna going to also take on the role of Myrelle and then Joline.

This way they would not need to recast multiple greens, and use Priyanka Bose as a series regular. 

The reason they are building her up so much, well other than the fact I would rather not mention involving Rand, is she will embody and represent most of the greens(with multiple warders) in the book. 

P.s. Please no hate, just speculate with me. I know the show is not what we would've  rather have. But I just wanna have a conversation. 

I don't even know where to start, tbh. I have never role played.

For now I am just here to talk, and listen to people talk - about my most favorite story of all time. Robert rewrote my brain basically, and how I think both as a reader, and writer. His story made me grow as a person.

But, I am so intrigued by your experience, thank you for sharing!  ❤️

2 hours ago, Elgee said:

 

No they don't work that way. Other chanelers would feel her real strength she is capable of herself, whether or not she's channeling or even embracing the source. I can't think where to find it now, but there's a quote from Graendal along the lines of "people who knew her strength would be surprised by the extra bit she could pull through the ring on her little finger".

Same my friend- up to lord of chaos:: I've read them how many times, I've lost count. Crown to Knife maybe half of that count. 🤔 

But honestly never even looked for a community to join, been obsessing over it just my myself for YEARS, until yesterday. Don't know what made me join (maybe the TV show, oh i wonder why?). But I am glad I did, as i am absolutely loving the discussions. 

@Elgee

You are right, the whole time i was writing this speculation i kept thinking about the "thin gold ring".

The things is I always interpreted that Cadsuane is like Sorilia (not in power) and I really was hoping the aes sedais, unknowingly doing something that I absolutely love about the wise ones. How women are treated( and revered) based on their merit (and strength 💪 of character) and not on their "strength in power". Ah well, it can still be my headcanon. 🫠

Also, thank you so much for taking your time and indulging me and my speculation. This has been great! ❤️

22 minutes ago, Elgee said:

 

If you mean Cadsuane is not on the level of the Wondergirls, that is correct.

If you mean on a level with Moiraine, Siuan, Elaida etc, then not correct.

Cadsuane is among the strongest Aes Sedai living in the third era, and prior to the beginning of the series, hers is the highest strength level of any Aes Sedai for many hundreds of years.

All living Aes Sedai (excluding Wondergirls) defer to her because of her strength.

You do realize why though? It is because of her "well" and the shrike. 

And the fact that Cadsuane is a "strong" women in the sense of being equal to Sorelia in strength of character. And also because her of Age. Cadsuane pretends to be very strong, and no one contradicts her, everyone who knew her when she was younger is dead.

She started collecting those ornaments right after she gained shawl "at the black hills" or at least that was hinted at one of those rare Cadsune POVs. 

The aes sedais didn't even know what a Well was until "lews therin rand" pointed it out - it is a "paralis net". Or am i remembering that wrong? So it is safe to presume they thought she was very strong but infact she isn't without her ornaments?

3 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

Actually your confusing things. The sa'angreal that was shown in season one episode one was in the possession of Moriaine BUT could only be used by a Male channeller.

 

In episode eight of season one, she gives it to Rand, and he uses it in the  "battle" with Ishamael. 

 

He should still have it so his lack of ability to prevent being shielded is even more odd if he had a sa'angreal that "thousands of male channelers had poured their power in" .

 

However, its never shown or mentioned that she had one for personal use IN THE SHOW, the books yes but NOT the tv show. Hope this helps clarify things. 

Thank you so much for clarifying it. I really thought i was losing my mind. I remember her giving him the "fat man angreal" or whatever the equivalent of it in the show. At this point in the story she should have the "Robed woman angreal" which she used in two rivers fight on winternight. But the show didn't make it clear as far as I know. Please tell me if I am wrong?

The thing is She CAN be an overpowered channeler with the robed women, or her "ivory bracelet" angreal. The strength of the latter almost equals an sa'angreal. 

Moiraine's strength in power equals to Siuan, Elida, and I think lelaine and romanda. Even Cadsuane is not on their level without her Shrike. And we know the shrike is not very powerful but it lets Cadsuane face some male channelers on equal footing. 

That was what I wanted to bring forth in my speculation. Giving the showrunners a loophole they can exploit, that can make Moiraine look a little less jarring on screen.

Also to distinguish the new generation of girls (our girls)

: Egwene_Elayne_Aviendha

Because Moiraine can be at their level with an angreal, however if they were on equal footing "our girls" will wipe the floor with Moiraine.

Not even gonna mention Nynaeve without her block. It would not be fair to put her against any of the above mentioned girls. 

@finnsss22 see I don't even remember! Which episode 🤔?

I need to rewatch season one. Damn, I didn't realize it was that unremarkable! I can remember adley had thick eyebrows and hopwil had a big nose, but i can't remember Moiraine using an angreal on a visual media?

Light help you,  Rafe Judkins.

Prediction: The showrunners will reveal Moiraine already had her angreal. And whatever she is doing can be easily explained. Honestly it would make sense for this version to have the angreal. I hope they address this. 

Is it a cop out? I don't know, but for real, they need to explain Moiraine's ability. And bring that storyline from book 13.

They need to establish she IS NOT as strong as the girls (Egwene, Elayne, Aviendha) let alone Nynaeve! They need to make it clear because the audiences are not aware of it at all.

Could be a complete speculation honestly, and I want people to tell me if this is wishful thinking but do you think Elayne just bonded Rand on the season 2 finale? I have a feeling they are bringing/replacing the Birgitte Bonding story line forward? I mean if you notice the weaves passed between Lan and Moiraine in the scene where she reopens the bond, and there was a weave for a moment that passed from elaine to rand, it looked identical. It could just be they are using all 5 elements and mistook that as warder bond weave. However, even Nynaeve can't heal a wound from shaddar logath dagger. It was Flinn and the two yellows together that saved Rand, when he got stabbed by it. This is not a wound that can be healed with only saidar, it needs saidin as well. I DON'T KNOW but I have a feeling they might just make the storyline where only reason Elayne could heal him is because she tethered Rand to her life-force. What do you think 🤔?

It's not very clear, i have to agree with @Godoggo. As much as I would like to support the show this is not made very clear. Also the fact that the sexes can not see each other's weaves. Though i think the show did a good job at showing the different elements (season 2) with colors which i think is very clever. And the fact that to the audience's eyes we will see both weaves and we can make the connection that they are infact channeling and drawing powers from the same elememts (earth, fire, air, water, and spirit). I think Jordan made it clear about the fact that the channelers can see and distinguish between the elements being used. So to translate it to visual media their use of color for each elements would work very well. But they need to make it clear to the audience that saidin and saidar even though the same but they are also different just because of your gender. Just like human beings, male or female we are still homo sapiens. It's funny in the age of gender politics Jordan's idea may sound very gender specific but that the story He was telling. If you don't like it then don't make it or better write your own story. Just don't eleminate a crucial idea of the story. Sorry for the rant. But thanks for letting me share my thoughts.