1 minute ago, CaddySedai said:

To be fair the Hippocratic Oath is an invention of our age. 

Naturally. Hippocrates was a future life of Nynaeve.

1 minute ago, Agitel said:

 

Yes, I said that already. ?

Oh Light, you were totally correct - I absolutely see your point and you've completely changed my mind!

1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

He was using a Hammer.

I ?‍♀️ corrected.

Just now, Agitel said:

One can argue the world is flat.

And one can make inappropriate analogies but it doesn't win points in an argument.

1 minute ago, fra85uk said:

At that suggests me that Laila was a DF (and also the fact that the wolf was feeding on her in the dream).

Possibly. But there are other explanations for wolf behavior. Wasn't Perrin also chopping her body in a dream. Because she's a DF?

1 minute ago, Agitel said:

3,500 years of not severing male channelers would have resulted in incredible problems. We're told the Aes Sedai only started using severing as a last resort because other methods did failed.

Or, one can argue, thankfully, that the 3,500 years of mistaken behavior led to the catastrophe in modern times. 

Just now, fra85uk said:

"humanize" DFs as it was suggested by the character of Dana.

Her story and her motivations also made me think that Perrin's (fridge) wife was probably a DF.

Yes to point one. No to point two. 

Dana is a human, so good on them.

9 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

The taint - as described by RJ - inevitably drives male channelers mad. That's not something the Aes Sedai made up.

Agreed. It's a disease, albeit magical. What's does the Hippocratic Oath say, "First do no harm." The BA "cure" for the disease does ultimate harm. And again, the whole point of 15 Books is to NOT take that approach of the AS, lead by the BA.

1 minute ago, Agitel said:

I say this somewhat tongue in cheek, but you sound like a "The Breaking Denier".

Oh Light, you were totally correct - I absolutely see your point and you've completely changed my mind!

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

The taint itself is the evidence of that assertion. LTT's fate. The Breaking.

The 'taint is an obstacle to overcome. Not a license for persecution and annihilation. Rand's ascension is a counterpoint to LTT's fate and the Breaking.

4 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

I will absolutely agree with you that the task is handled badly in the series.

Not agreeing with me. It's handled fine in the series, the way Jordan would have wanted. Every male channeler shown, even "young man" is shown as a victim of the Reds, and no manifestations of "madness" except voices and ephemeral companions are shown. Isn't it odd that in a fantasy series with teleportation and magic, the immediate cornclusion of many is: "Voices...must be madness!"? Even non-Book readers don't see it that way.

There's a hundred % chance that everyone in every world will die. However, if they do good before that, what is the justification for murdering them and worse. 

On 11/30/2021 at 8:07 AM, danweasel said:

• Tarwin's Gap
• Falme
• Dumai's Wells

The big battles suggested have been.

4 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Did anyone mention the battle of Camelyn

If we limit to one big battle per season, you can probably make a priority list. Of course by the last season of GoT there were four decent-sized battles: Loot Train, Bastards, Winterfell, King's Landing.

2 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

I know you know I love merging your posts but still

I only exist to serve.

Every poster is important to me and deserves a non-merged response. If others feel differently, whom am I to argue?

9 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

That's one of them ,there were hundreds.

Those are examples of Evil. One could make the same argument by giving examples of Evil by the Aes Sedai. No one is advocating hunting them down and stilling them.

6 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

I meant the creator of our beloved series.

I am humbled that we agree. ?

8 minutes ago, Daenelia said:

I guess I am thinking of something along the lines of eggs, breaking and omelette making. Sometimes to save something, you have to sacrifice something.

Ok, I'm convinced. Later I will go wreck my car and go to the repair shop.

15 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

I believe in many ways that was Jordan's point too.

If we agree, great. Who is it?

13 minutes ago, Daenelia said:

and most likely do both

How does one save and wreck the World? Otherwise I agree with you and conclude that what was true for Rand is also true for lesser male channelers.

6 minutes ago, Theseus78 said:

necessary job of protecting the world from male channelers

Sheesh. Rand was a male channeler, whom 15 books showed was correctly protected against this "necessary job." This "necessary job" was a mistaken extermination campaign by the AS lead by the BA (revealing 'taint it?) that would have resulted in defeat of the Forces of Good in the Final Battle. 

If they would have put their energies into making a BT, or cleansing Saidin, then the big lie would be put to rest and the cause of saving the World from Evil, advanced.

3 minutes ago, Agitel said:

The world was ravaged for over a century when saidin was tainted and mad men in mass

And didn't the Dragon break the world? Using that reasoning all the Forces of Good should have stilled and killed Rand as soon as he was identified. The BT was instituted as a fight against the madness that succeeded despite the infiltration, and contributed to the final victory. The fact that the BA were systematically eliminating male channelers, as they understood their evil charter, should give one pause about the big lie that they were inherently mad destroyers. If so, they should have been protected and heralded by the dark forces.

Just now, Agitel said:

We're saying that they were on a path to collectively go mad in large numbers and cause a lot of destruction and even geography changes.

Evidence is always nice when there are assertions.

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

Nah. The taint is real. We know that. For your take to be correct invalidates the Cleansing entirely.

Nope. One could argue, correctly, that the people that overcome the 'taint including Rand are MORE heroic for doing it despite the Despite. The cleansing just puts Saidin on the same basis as Saidar. Before that Saidin was still used for good. Am I misremembering all the good that the BT did before the cleansing? 

16 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

 A man who has spent more years than Nyn has been alive training himself to NOT let stuff like that happen.

His karma admitted her dogma, knowing they would soon be making googly eyes at each other.

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

I'll be convinced to rejoin the show.

Fingers x-ed.

Just saw on TBS, Dame Helen Mirren hosts Harry Potter: Battle of the Houses. 20 years from now,  Zoë Robins hosts WoT: Battle of the Channelers.

Also considering the fascination with Bela or Bella here, horses have a big role in fantasy adapations. Shadowfax and Bill in LoTR. In Thomas Covenant spiritual horses are a major force for good.

Just now, Skipp said:

The Shadow had 3000 years to worm it's way through the WT, the BT was around for barely 1 year.

When did the BA form? The BT was formed in response to the last battle. The Dark One had to move fast. And his infiltration ultimately failed due to the fact that male channelers were not mad, destroyers but good people overcoming. 

Just now, Skipp said:

The Shadow had infiltrated the BT

The Shadow had infiltrated the AS at it's very root. The Shadow do what the Shadow does. 

1 minute ago, Skipp said:

has more to do with luck than not

Luck? That's the main force in fantasy worlds.

27 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

When I said the madness justifies the action, I wasn't talking about Reds gentling on the spot or ignoring tower law.  I was talking about the fact that Male channelers are a very real and very literal time bomb of death and destruction.  

But are they? Another way to interpret even the Book, is that a cadre of evil AS are out to get male channelers for nefarious purposes. And they use the big lies: they will go mad, they will destroy things, etc--a classic disinformation campaign. The BT was a significant collection of male channelers created to do good, and it succeeds.