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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Terez

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Posts posted by Terez

  1. Re: Verin being tied to the horn.

     

    Yes, Verin's role was amazing and she did bring down nearly the entire BA, or at least outed it so they couldn't manipulate behind the scenes anymore. I am not belittling any of that.

     

    But she was BA for 70 years....

     

    I have a hard time seeing how she could have been considered a hero of the horn, after a life like that, whatever her motives. 

     

    Hawkwing was under the influence of Ishamael during crucial years of his life. Farstrider was under Compulsion for almost half his life, and hinted he'd done some dark deeds. The Dragon soul has turned to the Shadow before. All heroes. They don't always live virtuous lives.

  2. So.....now that it's all over, how does all the theory fit into the ending?

     

    Why did the DO not just kill Rand early on?  It seemed like that would ensure his win and not just provide a stalemate.

     

    Similarly, why did the DO want to turn Rand to his side?  It seems like that would provide him with no advantage.

     

    These are big questions that I am pretty upset were not somewhat clarified.

     

    Another question: what was the point of the dagger to keep the Dark One from sensing Rand's presence? What exactly would he have done if he'd felt Rand coming? He clearly needed Rand to come. And if he didn't feel Rand coming, wtf was up with the cave?

     

     

     

     

     

    Just read the entire book in one sitting so I'm a bit disoriented and unclear on some stuff towards the end but.

     

    When Rand comes out of the cave carrying Moridin - is that still Rand as Rand, or Rand as Moridin?

     

    I think it's deliberately unclear.

    so terez tell me,

     

    didnt they say there was going to be significant deaths in this book from the forces of light? i mean sanderson and co?

     

    we got quantity of deaths but certainly no quality except for eggy.

     

    it begs the question did rj dictate who died and who lived in his notes?

     

    He did dictate that for the main characters, but I think once you get below Gawyn level, Brandon had more freedom. I'm not much into death tolls, but some people expected an even more modest body count than the one we got. I'm mostly pissed about the metaphorical deaths re: the prophecies.

  3.  

    There is a quote somewhere in the series I believe from Rand that says something to the effect of A Prophecy sets the requirements for a thing to happen but even if they are met it doesn't mean it will happen or in the way believed to happen.

    The authors quite clearly stated all prophecies must be fulfilled. That they WILL happen, not always in the ways most obvious however.

     

    The only exceptions are 1) Dreams and 2) prophecies given after the Pattern began falling apart. Pretty sure the Broken Wolf prophecy doesn't qualify; it was given to us in TOM but according to Moridin's words it's probably much older. I think that one generally doesn't make any sense, and I wish Brandon hadn't written it, since it was apparently a waste of time to discuss what it might mean.

  4. Siuan dies. Leane almost dies but just about survives a direct meeting with Demandred. Beldeine and her Asha'man, Karldin, die together on the battlefield. I thought Yukiri was toast when Mat's command tent was attacked as she disappears in the resulting chaos, but reappears at the end as one of the Aes Sedai 'recruiting' Cadsuane as Amyrlin.

     

    Siuan and Bryne were also in the command tent. They all reappear at the same time, in the beginning of the next chapter.

     

     

     

    Sarene is Compelled by Graendal and appears to be dead (she's last seen collapsing with 'glassy eyes' as Cadsuane blows the living crap out of the area around Graendal).

     

    I figured Sarene survived since she was supposed to have a passionate love affair with someone, according to Min. I suppose it could have happened offscreen at some point.

     

    r />

    "Images and auras; a tempestuous love affair, of all things! The woman was ice, however beautiful. And there was nothing useful in knowing some man would melt her!" -TPoD

     

     

    She probably had an affair with her Warder.

     

     

    Sarene's secret vice was poetry, though she would never have let anyone know she could be interested in something so... emotional. She would have died of shame had Vitalien, her Warder, ever discovered that she had written lines comparing him to a leopard, among other graceful, powerful and dangerous animals.

     

     

     

     

    I'm pretty sure that Alivia is the one holding Rand after he seals the bore.

     

    Negative. The woman holding Rand is wearing Aiel garb and is very old (i.e. she looks really really old, which Alivia does not). She matches description of Nakomi in ToM.

     

    She also fits with the descriptions of Sorilea and Bair.

     

     

    The 'Creator avatar' thing is still the most likely possibility...

     

     

    Why would you think that? I don't think it's likely at all, especially considering RJ's confirmation that the Creator does not interfere. The voice, lame as it is, doesn't contradict that, but Nakomi certainly would.

     

    Someone asked Brandon if Nakomi was a Jenn Aiel, and he said they were on the right track.

  5.  

    So instead of asking about the Bore....he asks about the Dark One? How does that make sense?

     

     

    if i recall, and as i said before in the quote you directly quote, Moriane states specifically "you cannot ask questions touching the shadow, these are punished by death."  its either near the end of tDR or in the beginning of tSR where this is explained and rather bluntly so by Moriane to the girls.

     

    not meaning to be snarky, but its rather point blank why Rand couldn't ask or didn't ask questions invlovling any aspect of the DO or his prison, seeing as you can't ask any question that concerns the Shadow. 

     

    Yes, everyone knows what Moiraine said (and it had nothing to do with punishment by death). That doesn't change the fact that all three of Rand's actual questions touched on the Shadow, and that his third-revealed question about killing the Dark One touched even more heavily on the Shadow than asking about sealing the Bore would have. So your reasoning makes no sense.

     

    PS—In case you don't remember them:

     

    1. How do I cleanse the Dark One's taint from saidin?

    2. How do I win and survive the Last Battle?

    3. How do I kill the Dark One?

     

    All three clearly Shadow-related, and the one that was left open until now (#3)—the one where he might have asked how to seal the Bore—was the most Shadow-related of them all.

  6.  

     

     

    Agreed, this was one of my major problems with the book. The Dark One does not equal free will. How can he, when there is still free will while he can't touch the Pattern? How does his existence outside the Pattern grant people free will? It's definitely borrowed from Christian philosophy, and I suspect this is a pure Brandon addition. Partly because the first time killing the Dark One was mentioned was in TGS, and partly because of Rand's comment about his third question, which gives the impression that RJ didn't leave notes for the third question and Brandon felt the need to make something up to explain why Rand didn't just ask how to seal the Bore. But I could be wrong. Either way, I don't like it.

     

    It's interesting-I didn't like this ending when it was described in the threads but found it more or less acceptable the way it was written. I read it as being that the DO's destruction actually removed people's capacity for evil. They weren't slaves as such, but human nature was irrevocably altered and screwed up when the DO was destroyed as opposed to merely being sealed away.

     

    While I didn't mind it so much on its own terms I do agree with you that it sounds suspiciously like something Sanderson* came up with. It seems like we get a lot of new cosmology dumped on us. 

     

    * I like Brandon Sanderson's books a lot, but for reasons I will expound upon later I did not think he was a good fit for finishing up this series.

     

     

    you both do recall Moriane explaining the questions touching the Shadow could not be asked tot he Aielfinn/Eilfinn right?  so Rand couldn't ask anything to do with the Bore.

     

    So instead of asking about the Bore....he asks about the Dark One? How does that make sense?

     

    I don't think the woman at the end was Nakomi; I think it was Sorilea, and others have suggested Bair. But then, I hate the Nakomi concept completely, and would rather pretend that Brandon didn't go there. It's theories like Nakomi=Creator that will help me say goodbye to the WoT fandom with little regret.

  7. His ponderous messenger sheep were foreshadowed in Winter's Heart.

     

    Also, the strength of will thing is just hyperbole. It didn't bother me too much; we've seen shields being resisted as opposed to being sliced a few times before.

  8. There's also a great moment when one character complains about something that has been mentioned throughout the series as fact - that if the Shadow blew the Horn of Valere the heroes would have to serve it - and Hawkwing turns round and effectively says, "No, that's nonsense." Quite a few things that people have taken as read are subverted or proven plain wrong in this book.

     

    The reason that one was taken as fact is because RJ said at two different signings that the Heroes would have to follow whoever blew the Horn, and one of them (a dependable community member) reported he'd said there would be some sort of breach in the Pattern if the Dragon was on the other side of the battle. Not all of these subversions are very consistent or logical (and I was also underwhelmed by many of those things taken for granted by fans that turned out to be correct, because not all of those were consistent or logical either).

  9.  

     

     

     

     

    THE VOICE also went unexplained, which was somewhat expected. Would've been nice to know though.

     

    I assumed that it was the Creator telling Rand to do his thing. Still, much less than I was hoping for.

     

    That was explained. If you have the book, reread page 431.

     

    I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. I understand that Rand recognizes it as the Voice from the EotW and that RJ has strongly implied that this is the Creator.

     

    RJ never implies it's the Creator. The Creator does not interfere. Rand steps into Shayol Ghul, hears the VOICE, and recognizes it from TEOTW. It's the Dark One.

  10.  

    This Egwene dream presumably refers to Moridin and not Jahar's role in the cleansing, though I'm not sure if Moridin would be described as a "dark young man"

     

     

    [ACOS: 10, Unseen Eyes, 203]
    A dark young man held an object in his hand that shone so brightly she could not see what it was.

     

    Narishma is not any more dark than Moridin. Narishma has pale skin when he doesn't have a tan, and Moridin's body is described as being as young as Rand's.

  11. It's not conclusive because Min sees viewings around non-channelers too. She also said nothing about viewings of Birgitte when she first met her in Salidar, but when she saw her again in WH she had more viewings than she'd ever seen around anyone else.

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