Do you mean archetype? I have never really liked that theory much because there would still be some differences from Age to Age, and they clearly look like their recent (perhaps most archetypical) incarnation.

The second bit. And come to think of it, it's a signing report anyway. I've noticed RJ do the same thing on book tours; if someone has missed something in the book, he doesn't usually point it out to them unless it's something major.

Yeah, I noticed, but I also noticed he used past tense.

Yeah, not sure if you missed it earlier but the AS bond requires a weave of spirit to compel and doesn't work on male channelers. It is rarely used and highly looked down upon however.

I don't think we can say for sure it doesn't work on male channelers. It might be strength-dependent, i.e. it doesn't work on Rand because he is much stronger than Alanna.

The Ashaman experimented widely with bonding and know much more about it than AS. Their bond with the "extra bit" can compel with just a though, channeler or no.

Technically the Aes Sedai did start experimenting around the same time, and they can also do a bond with the extra bit:

“The Warder bond could be modified slightly,” Maigan said. “As it is, you can make the man do as you wish with a little tweak­ing, but the need to tweak could be removed quite easily.”

 

“That sounds too much like Compulsion,” Egwene said firmly.

I see no reason to believe that the 'new fog-thingy' is not Mashadar.

Reading ToM (or, actually, the sample material), that was my initial thought as well. I'm under the impression I've since read a quote of Brandon's saying it isn't, but as it turns out I can't find anything of the sort.

The only other comment I can think of that's relevant is (edit: the pre-TOM quote already posted above).

If Samm just died from Mash, why didn't the DL rez him?

According to Brandon, his thread was corrupted by Mashadar, preventing the Dark One from resurrecting him (but presumably not preventing the master of Mashadar from using him).

2) Can a Fain zombie say coherent things? It has to give orders that spawn understand.

Torval and Gedwyn were talking in Far Madding.

These weren't zombies like the Shadowspawn we've seen in ToM. It was merely an illusion for Rand. Indeed, the ones from ToM were showing signs of no longer being 'ordinary'.

You are taking my usage of the term 'Zombie Sammael' way too literally. A friend of mine at TL has that username, so I have taken to using it to refer to this iteration of Sammael because Sammael is dead, and for no other reason.

3) Can Fain reach out and control any victim of Mashadar (post the mordeth-Fain melding)? As far as we know, he was nowhere near Aridhol in ACoS at the time of the incident.

The assumption is that Fain's connection to the evil of Mashadar gives him that access, so his proximity at the time is irrelevant because it's a part of him wherever he goes.

But Mordeth's connection to Aridhol was broken when he became Fain

It doesn't matter because Aridhol ≠ Mashadar.

So I see no particular reason to assume he could use Mashadar in the same fashion he did that new fog-thingy.

I see no reason to believe that the 'new fog-thingy' is not Mashadar.

Why not? He's crazy. He trusted the Whitecloaks not to kill Rand despite having ordered them to do exactly that.

 

The theory that Fain used zombie Sammael to order trollocs into the Ways in KoD hinges on several things, all unconfirmed.

Not all. And it has more going for it than any other theory.

1) Does the Chosen mark stay on after Sammael's been "eaten" by Mashadar? Else the Spawn won't obey him

No reason to believe otherwise.

2) Can a Fain zombie say coherent things? It has to give orders that spawn understand.

Torval and Gedwyn were talking in Far Madding.

3) Can Fain reach out and control any victim of Mashadar (post the mordeth-Fain melding)? As far as we know, he was nowhere near Aridhol in ACoS at the time of the incident.

The assumption is that Fain's connection to the evil of Mashadar gives him that access, so his proximity at the time is irrelevant because it's a part of him wherever he goes.

4) Whoever reported to Moridin on the KoD event of ordering spawn into the Ways didn't mention that Sammy looked strange in any way. Difficult to believe that a zombie Sammael who has been kept "on ice" for a longish period would not have tattered clothes, other more disgusting signs of beng zombied, etc.

For an example, see Mordeth himself. His body was, according to Brandon, not exactly real, but not exactly illusion either.

Why not? He's crazy. He trusted the Whitecloaks not to kill Rand despite having ordered them to do exactly that.

Your point about his lack of control early on is well taken, though. Even in Far Madding, he apparently had to kill Rand physically while Rand was caught in the vision, so that does raise a question as to the effectiveness of the trap from TGH.

 

Well, his illusion of Torval and Gedwyn was not really a trap—just a distraction, which Rand didn't buy because he had seen the bodies in the attic.

I wonder if this means that Fain was the one who sent the trollocs through the ways while masquerading as whoever.

That's what she meant by the "Sammael zombie", I think. But, while Fain's now capable of corrupting Shadowspawn (that's an odd conjugation), he can't simply make them obey (in unconventional methods, i.e., by using something other than fear).

It doesn't matter, because Sammael can.

That's what I meant when I said earlier in that very same post that it might also be what happened with Zombie Sammael.

IIRC in WH, Fain pulled a similar illusion of replaying something that had happened in the recent past when two rogue Ashaman climbed up the stairs into his lair in Far Madding.

One might also say he did it with Zombie Sammael.

people have been known to give very different accounts of the same questions and answers. The important thing is, Fain did it.

In this case, however, we have two separate accounts of the same signing, so I tend to trust their understanding.

To the point that time itself was actually looping? In other words, my response was to the implication that Fain could control time. He's not controlling time itself (taking the 'time-loop' thing too literally) but rather controlling Rand's perception of time (at best).

Your point about his lack of control early on is well taken, though. Even in Far Madding, he apparently had to kill Rand physically while Rand was caught in the vision, so that does raise a question as to the effectiveness of the trap from TGH.

Well, his illusion of Torval and Gedwyn was not really a trap—just a distraction, which Rand didn't buy because he had seen the bodies in the attic.

I have a question:

 

In the Hunt for the Horn, Rand walks into the house and the whole "Blink...blink...blink" thing happens where he see the family who lived there get attacked by Fain's Trollocs and ends up covered in flies. How'd the blink thing happen when he wasn't by a portal stone?

 

It was a "time trap" set up by Fain.

 

I thought it was a bubble of evil?

 

What's a time trap.

 

Just saw the quote. Umm, ok odd. Wonder if that'll come back later. Fain can control time?

No, not really. At this point (and for a long time after) Fain can't really control his powers very well at all. He doesn't even understand them. The trap seems to have been mostly an illusion (if a deadly one), but it's not really clear what was going on there. I wouldn't take the words from the signing report too literally, either; people have been known to give very different accounts of the same questions and answers. The important thing is, Fain did it.

PS—As for thinking it was a bubble of evil, that's kind of funny because there was a bubble of evil in ACOS that most people thought was something Fain did. (The one in the rebels' camp in Cairhien, with the crazy fog.)

None of the bonders or bondees are aware of each other, though Elayne and Aviendha do have an awareness of each other due to the sister bond. I gather it's much weaker than the Warder bond in that sense. Alanna cannot feel the harem like she feels Rand (she thinks only one other woman bonded him), but she did pass out when he was bonded by the harem. (She did not know why until he told her in Far Madding.)

Correct.

lol.

They're not aware of each other, but she can feel that someone else is there. Didn't she describe it as she has less room in his head or something.

No, Rand described it that way.

None of the bonders or bondees are aware of each other, though Elayne and Aviendha do have an awareness of each other due to the sister bond. I gather it's much weaker than the Warder bond in that sense. Alanna cannot feel the harem like she feels Rand (she thinks only one other woman bonded him), but she did pass out when he was bonded by the harem. (She did not know why until he told her in Far Madding.)

Did we ever find out if one oath rod will remove the oaths from another oath rod?

The Black Ajah hunt (by the Sitters) seem to indicate that at least White Tower's Oath Rod could remove any oath.

Black Ajah oaths are sworn on the same rod, so that doesn't indicate anything at all. See Galina's confusion about the different markings. They use the Tower rod.

What exactly was happening in the scene in tFoH after Elayne and Nynaeve escape from Ronde Macura, and then she sends out two letters and another guy sends out a third? Where were those letters going?

First copy went to the Tower. Second copy went to the Seanchan. Third copy went to Darkfriends somewhere. Later on we see Macura with the Seanchan.

That scene I count as just speculation on the reason.

We know the reason.

Herid Fel's death; so far the books give no reason. And it seems that neither author commented on it.

You would be wrong about that.

Question. Why was that guy who made inventions (tovere?) killed and do we ever find out who killed him? Anybody know who I am talking about? Maybe it was mentioned but either I missed it or I forgot

 

Herid Fel? He understood the true nature of the wheel and knew this battle has been fought many times before. Fel was on the verge of giving Rand the information needed to seal the bore so a gholam was sent to kill him...

 

I think he's talking about the guy that made the looking glasses and telescopes. As far as I can remember he's still alive and making ever more powerful telescopes at Rand's academy in Cairhien.

Since Kin Tovere wasn't killed, it's probably a pretty good assumption he meant Herid Fel.

Question. Why was that guy who made inventions (tovere?) killed and do we ever find out who killed him? Anybody know who I am talking about? Maybe it was mentioned but either I missed it or I forgot

 

Herid Fel? He understood the true nature of the wheel and knew this battle has been fought many times before. Fel was on the verge of giving Rand the information needed to seal the bore so a gholam was sent to kill him...

This is the common assumption, but I rather like the theory that Sammael had him killed because he believed that Fel was Asmodean in disguise. After all, Sammael was the one who found the gholam in his stasis box. He told Carridin the very next day that he would send the gholam to deal with the channelers going after the stash. And Sammael appears to care nothing for philosophy, so the Asmodean explanation is more believable. He never believed that Asmodean was dead.

"You are washed clean of Nynaeve al'Maera from Emond's Field. You are washed clean of all ties that bind you to the world. You come to us washed clean, in heart and soul. You are Nynaeve al'Maera, Accepted of the White Tower." Handing the chalice to one of the sisters, the Amyrlin drew Nynaeve to her feet. "You are sealed to us, now."

"You are washed clean of Egwene al'Vere from Emond's Field. You are washed clean of all ties that bind you to the world. You come to us washed clean, in heart and soul. You are Egwene al'Vere, Accepted of the White Tower." The last drop splashed onto Egwene's hair. "You are sealed to us, now."

She observed that he was a good general. That's enough really. It also gives her a connection to unconquered lands.

Aram was a very troubled young man. I doubt that everyone who leaves the Way behind takes it as badly as he did. For one thing, his grandparents thought he found the Way difficult before he turned. For another thing, his transformation came about traumatically with the death of his parents and most of his band. For a girl who gets shipped off to the Tower, separated from the People completely, it's easy to see how such a change could come about with little trauma. Most girls spend ten years or more in training before having the freedom to leave the Tower.

I always assumed she left the religion behind when she became an Aes Sedai; there's nothing to indicate otherwise.