11 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

About which part?

"(b) Mat wasn’t very well formed by this point in the books either. "

I respectfully disagree with the above statement, and your follow up comment did not sway me. 🙂

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I'm not saying he wasn't an 'established character', I'm saying that his personality wasn't fully formed by this point in the books. RJ was still trying to figure out what to do with him.

 

To your point about where he was 'by this point in the books': We have seen him being an avid gambler and carouser. And we've seen him go through some of his arc with the dagger. He 'escaped' Tar Valon here too. So all we are missing is 'masterful quarterstaff user' and 'humorous post-healing eating sequence'. So it doesn't seem like we're too far off. And that's before acknowledging that we lost 3 episodes of Mat content when Barney Harris left the show.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here. 😉

On 4/6/2024 at 7:13 PM, Elder_Haman said:

I find Perrin very true to his book personality. Mat is certainly further away from where he is in the books but, (a) he hasn’t had much screen time; and (b) Mat wasn’t very well formed by this point in the books either. 

What?! By this point in the books, Mat is established as a masterful quarterstaff user, an avid gambler and carouser, has his arc with the dagger and humorous post-healing eating sequence, is persuaded to "escape" Tar Valon, et al. 

He's not full-on Mat yet, but he's still Mat. Definitely an established character by this point in the books. Sorry. 

My 5-year old uses my old legos from the 80's to build copies of the OG D&D 80's cartoon characters. She does a pretty impressive job!

 

Whenever I encounter these I always immediately think of Greek diacritical marks that denote differences in aspirations.

Honest feelings about the end: 

To be brief, kinda disappointed. 

The series seemed (to me) largely to lose traction after LoC. RJ spun out some crazy threads that were just too much to gather back in successfully, especially without RJ alive to do so himself. 

Sanderson did okay. I'm glad he finished the series. Definitely not trying to rag on him as an author. He did a reasonable job, even if I don't particularly care for his style (vs. RJ's). 

I think the more I reflect on the impossible pipe ending, the more I'm okay with it; however, too many loose ends just floating about without proper resolution. Rand as a father?  Rand as a son? Rand as a lover? All "off" at the end...imho.

I should note I haven't read any other BS work, so when I make statements regarding his writing style, I'm only speaking in reference to his stint with WoT, and in comparison/contrast to RJ. 

I'm sure he's a fine writer in his own milieu. 

While Sanderson did a fair enough job wrapping up the series, he writes in a markedly perfunctory manner, especially in dealing with subjects of emotional depth, especially between two or more characters, something at which Jordan excelled. 

It felt to me like he was going by a checklist of plot points to tick off, without adding much in terms of emotional impact. 
 

Obviously I paint with broad strokes, and there are some notable exceptions (e.g., Egwene's ending), but Sanderson just doesn't punch at quite the same weight as RJ.  There's a quasi-mystical element to RJ's style that Sanderson simply couldn't reproduce nor find a suitable replacement. 

The best romance in the book that felt the worst in BS's treatment was the Gareth Bryne/Suian Sanche arc. Man, I was pissed off at how that ended. Not necessarily the actual outcome, simply how it was written. 

No spots for Thom/Moiraine? I'd put them somewhere in the middle category. 

Mat and Tylin's "romance"? Probably dead last. 😐

On 2/5/2024 at 7:28 AM, Elendir said:

R. Jordan isn't known for writing romances well. But how bad it was or was it bad for you at all? Let's stay with main characters only and sort them in ranking. Also which romances were good, which bad and which in between?

My take on it:

 

GOOD

1. Min-Rand; only one well done romance probably. I would sacrifice quartople in second for it. Min character is reduced to viewings only in TW show now however, no wit no    independence, so I am quite afraid.

2. Nyn-Lan; I wrote that there is only one well done romance. It is because we don't get to see intimate moments between Nyn and Lan. It is probably good if we look at other romances. I feel that they has good chemistry together. So they deserve place her in good category.

IN BEETWEN

3. Tuon-Mat; marriage established on prophecy is hardly romantic construct. However they started respect each other and so it could play well if it has more time to be build in the books.

4. Avi-Rand; although tsundere type can work well in romance building. Their relationship froze in some moment and didn't develop father. They still get to respecting each other so only time was missing.

BAD

5. Elayne-Rand; they never get over crush on physical level. When I understand why Elayne teared down Rand`s banners, her renaming of Rand`s school show that she didn't understand Rand at all. His deepest fears and desires meant nothing to her.

6. Faile-Perrin; oil and water bad chemistry, they don't match at all. They were more like domestic violence then romance. Yet they are not last.

7. Egy-Gawyn; poor country girl and prince charming? Mighty aes sedai and her warden? No fairy tale like this. Self absorbed prick who made her fall and her greatest moment, but later wasn't his merit.

 

What is your take on this?

There were other couples, but I think that they shouldn't be compared with main characters. You can make separate comparison for them.

This sums it up pretty nicely and I agree with your order. 

I loved the romances during RJ's books, but they mostly fell flat for me during BS's part of the series. 

While I thought RJ had some questionable moments (to say the least!) I felt his characterizations to be more...believable? Lived in? Not sure exactly what, but even during the worst of The Slog, Perrin-Faile still had "life" to their relationship, if that makes any sense.

On 2/3/2024 at 12:41 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Bea Arthur from the golden girls 🤷‍♀️😂

Now I'm picturing Rue McClanahan as Berelain! 😮

(Golden Girls one of my all-time fave tv shows.)

Angela Lansbury?? 😐

Convinced my wife to finally cut Amazon completely, after years of seeing diminishing returns. Enshittification (aka platform decay) is a real thing and Amazon is one of the world leaders at it. 

Certainly not going to help a show like WoT...

I'm increasingly glad I bailed after season 1.

On 12/4/2023 at 11:27 AM, melkah said:

I am in half of book two of wheel of time and I have never read a series where SO MANY characters as annoying as s***t. They are so unlikeable and idiotic - Nynaeve, Rand, Mat - Egwene is the only one of the two river fork who doesn't consistently act like a moron.  Do they ever evolve out their idiotic sheep wool heads? Love the magic system but I am not sure i can tolerate the super annoying characters. Is there hope?

I disliked the characters of Nynaeve and Egwene so much I almost didn't finish the series. Now, after a couple read throughs (and reading the earlier books many times over), I can confidently say they are my favorite characters, definitely out of the leads from Emond's Field, and Egwene's story arch is by far the most satisfying in the book (for me, at least). 

So, yes, there is growth and change. 

I think, without being too verbose, like most, my feelings are mixed. 

Nothing makes good tv if the writers are bad. 😐

Maybe the uncertainty of Myddraals' origin stems from the use of Unwanted Trolloc Baby Drop Boxes...

*young Trolloc couple give birth*
*see eyeless human slug thing*
*decide to try again, later*

I'll show myself out now, thanks. 😐

After seeing comments from others, I'm glad I reached the conclusion after S1 not to continue.

During my S1 viewing, I tried a variety of techniques from lowering my expectations, "another turning of the wheel," et al. in an attempt to jive with the show's vibe. 

Simply too painful. 
 

On 10/2/2023 at 2:30 PM, DigificWriter said:

I said this in the chat of WoTTuber KritterXD's most recent Wheel and Chill Show Livestream, but am going to repeat it here: with their TV adaptation, Rafe and his team of writers have taken all 15 books of The Wheel of Time and created a Remix.

Yeah, only we ended up with Girl Talk and not Raekwon....:(

4 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

I mean not sure how they are an illegal monopoly, they are certainly a monopoly in terms of the online shop, but, the ironic thing is that they could close Amazon and prime down tomorrow and it would barely impact revenue of the company overall because they make most of their profit on there Tech and web/cloud services AWS which ironically Netflix, Disney plus and Apple TV all use to host there streaming service. So Amazon powers pretty much every other streaming service on the planet lol. 

That shall be decided in court, as the federal anti-trust regulators are currently suing Amazon for the very thing. 

I mean, you have the option to NOT watch, too. 🙂

If it's offensive, don't subject yourself to it. Respect yourself as a viewer. 

Just cuz amazon serves some slop up on a platter doesn't mean we need to consume it. 😉

On 9/24/2023 at 7:08 PM, RitualM said:

Hello, new to the forums. Read the series twice. Love it. Browsed the forums a handful of times foe info on stuff.

 

 I am just so upset and almost insulted by how poor the show is I need to vent so a place where people might understand.

 

The way they ruined so many good characters just hurts me. I have no problem with adaptation and changes no show can be exact to a series and truthfully it rarely should be. They are different mediums and require different approaches.

 

This being said, their writing of Lan, Mat, and even Nyneve to a point is infuriating.

Mat is just.... awful, where is our playful trickster with insane luck?

Instead we get a cowardly kid who has none of the traits of Mat. 

Also Ta'veren being not spoken of is a huge mistake to me. 

Lan went for hard, badass cold swordsman to all the feelings sad puppy pining over his lost relationship to Moraine after her stilling. Like wtf...

 

Nyneve instead of strong willed and bull headed seems just petulant and perpetually stressed out.

 

Thom? Gone. Elayne? Her introduction was so awful.... 

 

I hate so many things they have done in this show. 

They take major plot points and just ignore them. 0 context for the seanchan. Hardly a whisper of what Artur Hawkwing was even in the conversation about the genesis of the 3 oaths. So much is glossed over in a throwaway line only to be noticed by a reader.

 

At this point I'm watching it just to see how much worse it can get

 

My only positive comment so far is that the actor who plays Logain is amazing. I want him to be the whole show at this point.

This very much sums up where I stand on the matter; however, I decided not to give S2 a go...I literally pulled it up the night of release, looked at it paused and ready to go for like 10 minutes just staring...and then said, nah I got too much other stuff going for me right now. 😛😄

Being an illegal monopoly (allegedly) isn't enough for Amazon? 

Gotta get some ads in now, too? Sheesh. 

Not renewing Prime next year if I can convince the spousal unit. 😐

2 hours ago, TamSwordsman said:

I'm halfway through S2Ep3...and I'm disgusted...

 

This Rafe bloke is destroying books I deeply love.

 

There is simply no purpose to so many of his/the producers changes.

 

This is truly "inspired by" or "based on"...in the most loosely applicable sense.

 

They are literally taking themes from the books and creating their own story...a story that doesn't even remotely follow details and plot lines accurately.

 

I get that at times Jordan was verbose and that there must be some changes in any adaptation...but the things that are true to the books are occasional homage and by far in the minority. 

 

What do others think???

If it bothers you, stop watching. 

I don't think I'm going to watch S2. Maybe later this winter if I get really bored. But right now I'd rather keep the novels pure in my mind rather than having a half-baked adaptation spoil things. 🙂

YMMV. 

I thought today was Tuesday until I saw this thread. :|