21 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Look on the bright side - perhaps the timing is due to re-shooting/ recutting the last episode of season 1 because they realised that what they did there completely messed up the plotting for the rest of the show.

I don't know about ruining anything, but I'm on page when it comes to getting things just right. Also re-shoots are pretty common on high end productions. I just want some news.

I'm torn on whether no news is good news, or bad news. Its certainly frustrating, but is it that big a deal? Take your time and get everything right... obviously. But give us an update! Lol

What do the rest of you think?

23 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

On 10/30/2022 at 11:52 PM, templar7 said:

There were only 5 Wizards (Istari), White, Blue, Brown and two Blue...

I think you mean white, grey, brown and two blue?  You did ask to be corrected if you were wrong (although I consider that to be an open invitation on any post),

Yup, that is indeed what I meant. Thanks for the correction mate.

On 10/22/2022 at 10:16 PM, Harldin said:

On 10/22/2022 at 9:34 PM, templar7 said:

What a great perspective. I agree from a non readers point of view. 

As a fully read Tolkien and RJ fan, as I'm sure you are as well, RoP changed way too much. I think it's a problem of only having the appendices to work with though.  

Like what is Galadriel doing taking orders from Gil Gallad... Gandalf and the Istari came to middle earth by ship, and long after the rings were forged as Cirdan gave one to Him and the other to Galadriel. And the Numenorians should have had numerous settlements in middle earth by this time. 

Buy comparison WoT stayed much tighter to the source. 

Not yet convinced that the Istari is Gandolf or that we will ever know who it is, we may be left guessing with the Stranger and he may just leave Middle Earth at the end of the series, without giving a known name. 

That's possible. But wouldn't that be even more confusing to us students of the story and newbies? There were only 5 Wizards (Istari), White, Blue, Brown and two Blue... I admit I can't remember when exactly Radagast and the two Blue arrived in Middle Earth but I'm sure it was after Dagorlad. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I could digest it easier if they made him a Blue... In fact that would be kind of cool as Tolkien never expanded their story or names.

I'm just such a nerd with this stuff. lol

On 10/24/2022 at 5:57 PM, AdamA said:

Morfydd Clark is actually 33, the same age as Cate Blanchett in 2002. They kind of got at least that right in the sense that elves shouldn't age once they're past elf puberty. Of course, they go and squander that with having Celebrimbor look so visibly older than the other elves and Robert Aramayo looking truly like a kid compared to Hugo Weaving, who was already in his 40s when Fellowship was filmed.

Very surprised by her actual age there... She still looks 19 though... to me anyway. I guess Cate just had and elegance to her. 

Your point on Celebrimbor is spot on!

On 10/24/2022 at 6:42 PM, DojoToad said:

On 10/24/2022 at 5:57 PM, AdamA said:

I still waver with the Harfoot storyline. On the one hand, I thought the relationship between Nori and the Stranger was more touching than any of the other ones shown so far, and they made a nice worldbuilding touch with a fairly interesting culture. On the other hand, what is supposed to be the point of this? It feels like a completely disconnected plot that has nothing to do with the forging of the rings or the eventual last alliance of elves and men this is supposed to be leading toward. The analogy to setting a subplot in Shara seems apt. That could be done well, but why? It's just including a different show in a show for no reason, or in this case, it feels like writing by focus group, that some marketing suits told them the appeal would be broader if it included hobbits and wizards. The time could have been spent actually developing the Southlanders. I don't think this was their intention, but to me, the most interesting characters so far are Sauron and the head Orc Adar. I get trying to gray things up a bit, but do you want people to be rooting for your villains? But if you make the Numenoreans and Southlanders all jackasses or bland, uninteresting archetypes, Galadriel a genocidal maniac, the other elves except Gil Galad idiots and Gil Galad is barely in the show, who else are we supposed to care about?

Expand  

I figure that they were trying to build in why Gandalf was so fond of hobbits.  Thought they spent too much time on it, but that is what I came up with...

I agree, but i still bump up against it. The Silmarillion in my head keeps telling me that Gandalf came by ship and long years after the forging of the rings.... But I see your point.

On 10/23/2022 at 3:58 PM, MasterAblar said:

Having a lot of tall and slender actors play elves also helps.

Another great point! Elrond should tower over Durin and Galadriel should be at least the same stature as the Numenorians.

On 10/23/2022 at 8:45 AM, DojoToad said:

I didn’t have a problem with her age. But that none of the elves looked distinctly different from the humans with the exception of the ears. They just weren’t ’pretty’ enough. They didn’t have the grace. Whatever Jackson did in LotR, it was missing in RoP. 

100%!! You nailed that. I think that's more in line with my issue. Like Celibrimbor looking like a high school geography teacher and Gil Galad, like Galadriel's uncle.. or something to that effect.

I agree man, the whole nuance of "The Eldar" and what they were in respect to the rest of the races of middle earth seemed to have been ignored.  The only elves that really look the part are Arondir and Gil Galad.

2 hours ago, expat said:

I just watched the 6th episode with my brother today.  While the overall series is slightly better than meh, this episode was very weak.  I was looking at my watch trying to figure out how much time was left.

 

I feel about the Harfoot storyline about how most people on this board would feel if WOT spent 20% of Series 1 screen time telling a tertiary story about some Sharans.  Yes, Shara is part of the worldbuilding so it isn't cheating to tell a story there, but it has no business being in the series.

 

The Elrond/Durin subplot isn't good. Maybe because I dislike both the look and the acting for both characters.

Hell ya. Is it me or does Galadriel look like she just turned 19. I would be happier if there were no hobbits at all.  The whole thing is over produced and under acted.

The only character that really fits their role is Elendil.

2 hours ago, Harldin said:

Not yet convinced that the Istari is Gandolf or that we will ever know who it is, we may be left guessing with the Stranger and he may just leave Middle Earth at the end of the series, without giving a known name. 

I hope you are right my friend. 

On 10/21/2022 at 9:45 AM, notpropaganda73 said:

 

I know you are saying you are much closer to the source material for WoT, but just as two standalone shows the only area that RoP is better than WoT is the production quality in my opinion. WoT probably a 6/10 for me (and significantly downgraded because of the finale, had they executed the finale better I'd have been delighted with S1) whereas RoP... probably 3/10? I'm just left having no interest in whatever they have planned going forward.

 

I'm a huge fan of both worlds and I was very relaxed about the story they would tell in RoP and how they would have to go about it (considering all the rights issues), but what we got was so scattered and outright bad at times I find very few redeeming qualities. At least with WoT I had some serious high points (personally) and there was really nothing in RoP S1 that had me thinking "well at least we got that" and looking forward to S2. The only thing that came close really was seeing Numenor realised on screen, but even that, after the initial excitement, felt like a pretty small city rather than the civilisation it is described as. Though the whole show suffers from feeling very small/empty imo. 

 

 

I really dont think they should have bothered without the rights to the Silmarillion in the first place. All the meat of the story is there. 

With that budget I'd rather see the story of Feanor and the Silmarills

On 10/21/2022 at 6:54 AM, DaddyFinn said:

Surprising, eh? 😉 I can't find many positives in the first season. It just felt so pointless.

On 10/21/2022 at 9:07 AM, SinisterDeath said:

 

In terms of faithfulness to the source; Rings of Power didn't just eliminate a few towns, and add a new stop at a location they would have rather avoided like WoT did. They literally rewrote a millennia of history, changed the importance of Mithril, and a whole slew of other stuff that if it had happened to WoT, fans heads would be exploding in anger.

 

Isn't it interesting though that if you can separate yourself from the source, how those changes largely become meaningless?

What a great perspective. I agree from a non readers point of view. 

As a fully read Tolkien and RJ fan, as I'm sure you are as well, RoP changed way too much. I think it's a problem of only having the appendices to work with though.  

Like what is Galadriel doing taking orders from Gil Gallad... Gandalf and the Istari came to middle earth by ship, and long after the rings were forged as Cirdan gave one to Him and the other to Galadriel. And the Numenorians should have had numerous settlements in middle earth by this time. 

Buy comparison WoT stayed much tighter to the source. 

11 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

4 hours ago, templar7 said:

I'm flattered you care so much about my self confidence.

Disagree with what? That wot is the better show, or that the budgets are disproportionately allocated? What am I missing here? lol

That WoT was the better show. I found RoP to be far superior. Sorry I wasn’t clear. 

So you're the one..

In Casting and final overall quality, who comes out as the winners?

I'm WOT on both fronts..

Make your vote.

On 10/16/2022 at 11:28 PM, DaddyFinn said:

On 10/16/2022 at 9:40 PM, templar7 said:

https://winteriscoming.net/2022/10/16/the-wheel-of-time-shouldve-gotten-amazons-billion-dollar-budget-instead-rings-of-power/

 

This article perfectly encapsulates my point... WOT is the superior show.

I don't think WoT actually needs that big budget. RoP was pretty but lacked in everything else.

I do agree that the Wheel of Time doesn't necessarily need as big a budget as Rings. We both agree that (more money) doesn't ensure a home run on it's own. In fact -and to your point- what Rafe was able to do with far less resources proves that fact.

I just think with a similar commitment, tWoT would be a grand slam. Objectively the failures I saw in season one were almost exclusively editing and special effects.

On 10/15/2022 at 3:59 PM, Jacobr said:

I gotta disagree here. HoTD is basically trying to be Succession with Dragons. It’s a completely different show that allows for different scenes and different styles of storytelling. 
 

WoT is trying to tell it’s story in a much more action/adventure style vain. It’s much closer in tone to Indian Jones than HoTD or GoT ( GoT spilt the difference a bit more by the end, for better or worse).

 

It’s Shakespeare vs Marvel. Both have witches, heros and villains with powers and fantastical elements but they are quite different.

I agree up to Shakespeare vs Marvel. I think WoT is more than that, both from a literary stand point and in its wold building. But I totally agree in disagreeing with the previous thread. I guess I would see it more as a Stephen King vs H.P. Lovecraft...

Good post mate 

On 10/17/2022 at 12:15 AM, Skipp said:

Thanks for the article.  I do agree that Amazon should be focusing on both shows a little more equally.  Lord of the Rings is the far far bigger name and will always get the majority of attention by the studio but the lack of interest that Amazon seems to have towards WoT is disheartening.  They barely marketed the show and during The Dusty Wheels coverage of NYCC Sarah Nakamura was in chat and said something to effect of "I have words for how the marketing was performed".

For sure. I get the fact that the brand power is way higher.

And to you point: We still dont have a release date. I hope we see a little more parody between the two franchises.

On 9/21/2022 at 3:34 AM, templar7 said:

If anything it should help level the playing field -budget wise- between the two shows. They put 80% of their cards on lotr and a small fraction of that on the long shot WoT.  Hopefully we see some rings money funneled Rand's way.

Rings of Power had a blank cheque budget and somehow missed the target entirely.  By comparison or not, the Wheel of time is a huge success.  Despite having a much smaller budget, fewer episodes and casting turmoil, Rafe delivered a better show...

On 10/17/2022 at 4:29 AM, DojoToad said:

Couldn't disagree more.  But glad you found an article you liked.

I'm flattered you care so much about my self confidence.

Disagree with what? That wot is the better show, or that the budgets are disproportionately allocated? What am I missing here? lol

On 9/21/2022 at 3:34 AM, templar7 said:

If anything it should help level the playing field -budget wise- between the two shows. They put 80% of their cards on lotr and a small fraction of that on the long shot WoT.  Hopefully we see some rings money funneled Rand's way.

Rings of Power had a blank cheque budget and somehow missed the target entirely.  By comparison or not, the Wheel of time is a huge success.  Despite having a much smaller budget, fewer episodes and casting turmoil, Rafe delivered a better show...

https://winteriscoming.net/2022/10/16/the-wheel-of-time-shouldve-gotten-amazons-billion-dollar-budget-instead-rings-of-power/

This article perfectly encapsulates my point... WOT is the superior show.

On 10/8/2022 at 8:52 AM, DojoToad said:

That would be awful if true…

Yes that would suck!...  Say it ain't so...

On 9/23/2022 at 5:06 PM, king of nowhere said:

It's quite funny to read the back and forth between those that love the silmarillion and those who find it boring. it puts things in perspective of individual tastes. To further keep things into perspective, a lot of tolkien hardocore fans disliked the lotr movies.

 

I haven't watched rop and I have no idea how it is, but all this further reinforces my impression: nothing will ever be as successful as got because now there are too many competitors. got came out and it was the first tv show of its kind, and everyone who wanted that kind of content had to watch it. now we have lots to pick from, so the fans will be more dispersed

I totally agree... And I'm one of those hardcore fans of Tolkien, pretty hyper critical to the films. But I do like them to point. I think they are as good as they could have been.

On 9/21/2022 at 11:28 AM, Jake Sykwalker said:

Great suggestion.  The audiobook is very helpful to get through it.  That is what eventually got me through the first couple of chapters.  Even then I had to pause and rewind many times because it is so dense and moves so fast.

 

The hardest part of the Silmarillion is the first couple of chapters.  If you can force your way through them there are very good stories in there.  The first part is the creation of the universe and the Valar.  It is very dense and covers a ton of ground quickly.

 

If you just wanted to get some history on Galadriel and the Elves for the show you could read "of the Darkening of Valinor" and "of the Flight of the Noldor."  You would be missing a bunch of back story on the elves, but it would get you to the point of the beginning of the intro where Melkor wounded the trees which provided light to the world.

 

The problem is the Galadriel and Finrod in the show are not like what is in the book.  In the show Galadriel is an angsty American teenager and her brother is a throwaway we know nothing about.  They basically fridge Finrod and ignore that he was a king and did other things.  Tolkien's world is very rich with history, but they don't use much of it.  Not sure if that is due to licensing, or lazy writing.  

 

From of the flight of the Noldor: 

 

" But Finarfin spoke softly, as was his wont, and sought to calm the Noldor, persuading them to pause and ponder ere deeds were done that could not be undone; and Orodreth, alone of his sons, spoke in like manner. Finrod was with Turgon, his friend; but Galadriel, the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day tall and valiant among the contending princes, was eager to be gone. No oaths she swore, but the words of Feanor concerning Middle-earth had kindled in her heart, for she yearned to see the wide unguarded lands and to rule there a realm at her own will. Of like mind with Galadriel was Fingon Fingolfin's son, being moved also by Feanor's words, though he loved him little; and with Fingon stood as they ever did Angrod and Aegnor, sons of Finarfin. But these held their peace and spoke not against their fathers."

 

Feanor swore revenge on Melkor (or Morgoth as he came to be known), but Galadriel left because she wanted to see the world.  With the trees gone the only light left was in the Silmarils that Feanor created and Melkor stole after slaying Feanor's father the king of the Noldor.  The Valar wanted the Silmarils to heal the trees, but Feanor wanted revenge and his gems back.  

 

Finrod did die after fighting with Sauron personally, but it was at the hands of a werewolf after he was imprisoned.  It wasn't on a generic battlefield, but on a quest for a Silmaril to help Beren whose family he swore an oath to.  He died after killing the werewolf protecting his friend and keeping his oath.  The story is called The lay of Leithian. 

 

 

 

On 9/21/2022 at 3:43 AM, templar7 said:

I found it very difficult until I got the unabridged audio book. Its exceptional in its presentation and read with near perfect pronunciation and delivery.  Once I got through all 14 hours. was hooked. since then ive read it a dozen times and listened to it again a dozen more. you'll thank yourself when you do.

If had more patience I would have written something similar. I totally agree! \

You also make a great point that the Silmarillion is in fact a collection of stories told in brief, of the history of Middle Earth.. and beyond.

"Of the Rings of Power, and the third age" is where things may be more familiar maybe.

But Ya. you can explore the book nonlinear.

2 minutes ago, Terry05 said:

It's a book I've tried to read a few times - I'm going to give it a proper go this time

I found it very difficult until I got the unabridged audio book. Its exceptional in its presentation and read with near perfect pronunciation and delivery.  Once I got through all 14 hours. was hooked. since then ive read it a dozen times and listened to it again a dozen more. you'll thank yourself when you do.

If anything it should help level the playing field -budget wise- between the two shows. They put 80% of their cards on lotr and a small fraction of that on the long shot WoT.  Hopefully we see some rings money funneled Rand's way.

Rings of Power had a blank cheque budget and somehow missed the target entirely.  By comparison or not, the Wheel of time is a huge success.  Despite having a much smaller budget, fewer episodes and casting turmoil, Rafe delivered a better show...

6 hours ago, Terry05 said:

I might be wrong here and correct me if I am, but didn't the Tolkien estate knock back any offer involving the First Age i.e. The Silmarillion? This might be something that we can't blame Amazon for.

They did as far as I know. The appendices of LotR -all they have- still seem greatly underused or ignored. I love the Silmarillion. its my favorite book of all time...  Personally, I wouldnt have bothered at all without its rights.