That vote was made under the impression that "breaking the game" meant trying to, well, destroy it, which was incorrect, and he since unvoted.

 

 

In other words (sorry, but I was managing 3 things at once), he had an incorrect impression of what was happening. And with the impression he had, that vote is logical.

Don't care, his stated reason for his vote isn't why I have a problem with it.

 

Eh?

 

His reason for the vote isn't why you have a problem with it? What does that even mean?

 

You have a problem with a vote for another reason than somebody's reason for it? Only other way I see one could have a problem with a vote which is unrelated to the person giving it is if that vote is on a scum mate.

 

And that's part of why I said it did terrible things to me.  At first, I read as that's why he had a problem  - and was ready to crucify him for it.  Then I read it again and realized he said isn't why, and I was confused.  Then I thought about it with his previous post and realized it actually makes a lot of sense.

[V]SK[/v]

 

This is actually less about him and more not wanting to vote Ben (n0 town). Outside of him, my Do Not Lynch pool is probably Niniel, BFG, DJ, and Sooh in that order. Maybe throw in Nolder if I'm feeling froggy

for most obvious takes - BFG, Niniel & Nolder all look good to me

 

Perhaps Clov too

Oh, okay.

 

Vote Count

SK (2) - Dice, Clov

Marsh (1) - Sooh

Clov (1) - LZM

Ben (3) - Cory, SK, Nolder

Cory (2) - Ley, Ben

 

Vote count needs more BFG.

 

That vote was made under the impression that "breaking the game" meant trying to, well, destroy it, which was incorrect, and he since unvoted.

 

 

In other words (sorry, but I was managing 3 things at once), he had an incorrect impression of what was happening. And with the impression he had, that vote is logical.

Don't care, his stated reason for his vote isn't why I have a problem with it.

 

Update: I am feeling froggy.  

Also update: This post did terrible things to me.

 

[v] Cory[/v]

Ok this is too desperate even for me.

 

[v]Ben[/v]

 

Heh.  His push on Cory is why I unvoted him.  The other reads he gave in his explanation post seemed reasonable enough to me, and his justification of Cory seemed honest enough that I don't think he's the best lynch at this point.  I'm not sure I would lynch Cory right now, but I don't see any issue with HIM pushing Cory.

Okay, let me rephrase that Nolder. 

What reads do you have at this point because of it?

You say it rattled Sooh - okay, cool.  Do you think her being rattled makes her more likely to be town?  More likely to be scum?  I was involved a lot - what does my involvement with it say about me?

[V]SK[/v]

This is actually less about him and more not wanting to vote Ben (n0 town). Outside of him, my Do Not Lynch pool is probably Niniel, BFG, DJ, and Sooh in that order. Maybe throw in Nolder if I'm feeling froggy

* same thoughts as me

Talk to me about Leyrann?

 

 

 

 

About the naming someone thing? Is everyone supposed to do that?

 

General thought: game seems to be a bit more complex than usual for me, but this is my third full game, so I'm still pretty new to mafia I guess.

 

Thoughts on other players? Don't really have much yet. Other than curious as to why SK would vote for self and want others to vote too. Still trying to get a feel for folks.

This is an open game. Which means it is potentially a breakable game. Open games are games where the setup is known. How many town, how many scum, and their respective roles. Refer to page 1. The goal of the town or rather the cops is to figure out what flavor they are and then reveal their innocent/guilty. The goal of the mafia framers is to obfuscate the issue. The traitor is a player that wins with the mafia, but is not in their chat. And the mafia does not know whomst the traitor is. I am a fan of open games. In fact I am dogged with some of them and live to find the most optimal way to play as town in the setup. Do the cops claim? Probably not since their is no doctor, but when should they claim. The mod already made it hard for the scum with a night zero. the two sane cops are working away. You might say, but what about the two framers and insane cop? I say meh. They have to choose precisely the same person and the cops are persons they can choose from as well makes it harder for scum to win. So one must do drastic things to win this mountain of a game...Hence the self vote.

 

 

About the naming someone thing? Is everyone supposed to do that?

 

General thought: game seems to be a bit more complex than usual for me, but this is my third full game, so I'm still pretty new to mafia I guess.

 

Thoughts on other players? Don't really have much yet. Other than curious as to why SK would vote for self and want others to vote too. Still trying to get a feel for folks.

This is an open game. Which means it is potentially a breakable game. Open games are games where the setup is known. How many town, how many scum, and their respective roles. Refer to page 1. The goal of the town or rather the cops is to figure out what flavor they are and then reveal their innocent/guilty. The goal of the mafia framers is to obfuscate the issue. The traitor is a player that wins with the mafia, but is not in their chat. And the mafia does not know whomst the traitor is. I am a fan of open games. In fact I am dogged with some of them and live to find the most optimal way to play as town in the setup. Do the cops claim? Probably not since their is no doctor, but when should they claim. The mod already made it hard for the scum with a night zero. the two sane cops are working away. You might say, but what about the two framers and insane cop? I say meh. They have to choose precisely the same person and the cops are persons they can choose from as well makes it harder for scum to win. So one must do drastic things to win this mountain of a game...Hence the self vote.

I like this. I actually understood 95% of what you said.

 

And you clarified something for me as well.

Ignoring the multiple factual inaccuracies of it, what do you like about it? As far as I can tell, he's suggesting that he's trying to find the optimal way to play it by self-voting. In what universe is that ever going to be the optimal way for town to play it?

 

And I'm pretty sure the bold is another scum claim, so yeah...I'm at a loss.

 

Then where's your vote?

 

Still on you?

He's sweatin. He's confused. He wants to vote, but what do. Sack up dude no pain no gain. ladies and gentlemen put this guy out of my misery. This is game 1. if aj runs this game 20 more times a optimal way to play comes out by like game 6, or someone breaks it sooner. Just because I like open games and enjoy finding the best way to play the game for the town does not dictate how I will play in game as town. I have more town reads than you do, so I say I am doing pretty well for myself on my way to letting town let me do whatever I want.

 

I'm not worried about anything, I'm not confused by anything, and I have my vote exactly where I want it at this point.

Bold - Iol

 

About the naming someone thing? Is everyone supposed to do that?

 

General thought: game seems to be a bit more complex than usual for me, but this is my third full game, so I'm still pretty new to mafia I guess.

 

Thoughts on other players? Don't really have much yet. Other than curious as to why SK would vote for self and want others to vote too. Still trying to get a feel for folks.

This is an open game. Which means it is potentially a breakable game. Open games are games where the setup is known. How many town, how many scum, and their respective roles. Refer to page 1. The goal of the town or rather the cops is to figure out what flavor they are and then reveal their innocent/guilty. The goal of the mafia framers is to obfuscate the issue. The traitor is a player that wins with the mafia, but is not in their chat. And the mafia does not know whomst the traitor is. I am a fan of open games. In fact I am dogged with some of them and live to find the most optimal way to play as town in the setup. Do the cops claim? Probably not since their is no doctor, but when should they claim. The mod already made it hard for the scum with a night zero. the two sane cops are working away. You might say, but what about the two framers and insane cop? I say meh. They have to choose precisely the same person and the cops are persons they can choose from as well makes it harder for scum to win. So one must do drastic things to win this mountain of a game...Hence the self vote.

 

 

 

About the naming someone thing? Is everyone supposed to do that?

 

General thought: game seems to be a bit more complex than usual for me, but this is my third full game, so I'm still pretty new to mafia I guess.

 

Thoughts on other players? Don't really have much yet. Other than curious as to why SK would vote for self and want others to vote too. Still trying to get a feel for folks.

This is an open game. Which means it is potentially a breakable game. Open games are games where the setup is known. How many town, how many scum, and their respective roles. Refer to page 1. The goal of the town or rather the cops is to figure out what flavor they are and then reveal their innocent/guilty. The goal of the mafia framers is to obfuscate the issue. The traitor is a player that wins with the mafia, but is not in their chat. And the mafia does not know whomst the traitor is. I am a fan of open games. In fact I am dogged with some of them and live to find the most optimal way to play as town in the setup. Do the cops claim? Probably not since their is no doctor, but when should they claim. The mod already made it hard for the scum with a night zero. the two sane cops are working away. You might say, but what about the two framers and insane cop? I say meh. They have to choose precisely the same person and the cops are persons they can choose from as well makes it harder for scum to win. So one must do drastic things to win this mountain of a game...Hence the self vote.

I like this. I actually understood 95% of what you said.

 

And you clarified something for me as well.

 

Ignoring the multiple factual inaccuracies of it, what do you like about it?  As far as I can tell, he's suggesting that he's trying to find the optimal way to play it by self-voting.  In what universe is that ever going to be the optimal way for town to play it?

And I'm pretty sure the bold is another scum claim, so yeah...I'm at a loss.

Ok, so why not answer me earlier?

fwiw ~not the dumb reason I expected

 

I did.

What were you expecting?

I'm pretty sure lurkers have been crushed in recent games, but that's besides the point.

As it relates to SK, I'll gladly lynch him if he doesn't do something to make me think he's worth keeping around.  I just don't think it's worth everybody jumping on him when essentially half the game has yet to make a meaningful contribution.  If he's town, you're absolutely right to say it's anti-town...but that doesn't mean he can't be.  It wouldn't be the first time town has claimed scum, for some bizarre reason.

And not going to turn this into a gun debate, but I'd much rather have access to one and never need it for self defense than be in a situation where I need one and don't have it.  I don't know any countries that outlaw kitchen knives.  Or machetes.

 

 

 

Why?  I see literally no point in this.

I don't want to play this like it's a vanilla game.

I want to play this like it's a game with a cop, an insane cop, a framer, and a mafia traitor.

 

 

That's fine.  That doesn't explain what benefit you think there is in discussing the contradiction. 

 

Two and a half phases from now when we have multiple flips and an idea of who was targeted?  It would be pretty dumb NOT to discuss it.  But right now, we have minimal information so any discussion on that specific difference (or any discrepancy between peeks) seems like it's going to do more harm than good.  It can lead to mislynches on cops, it can lead to mislynches on peeks, and it can lead to cops getting NKed.   

 

I think there's always benefit in discussion. Besides, a stagnant game is a boring game.

Just seemed like a contradiction was a good place for a starter discussion.

Better than the usual joke votes and mock outrage retaliatory votes etc etc that usually happens in most early games anyway.

 

Not sure I agree that it's any more useful, but I appreciate the variety.

If nothing else, it has me feeling ~good about you.  Really interested to see what takeaways you have from it, though.

[v]Gentled Ben[/v]

What else are you thinking right now?

 

 

[v]Gentled Ben[/v]

 

YOLO.

It looks like you want my one life to be a short one. 

 

You said that when you die, you will flip town, but that does not mean that Sooh's peek wasn't altered by framing. Is it possible that she is the insane cop, or will the insane cops reads all come back innocent regardless of alignment?

 

I'm pretty sure she would have to be the insane cop.  I assume the framer makes all investigations guilty, rather than reverse, so I don't think it would be a situation where she is sane and Iron is insane but they were flipped.

 

 

Why?  I see literally no point in this.

I don't want to play this like it's a vanilla game.

I want to play this like it's a game with a cop, an insane cop, a framer, and a mafia traitor.    

 

 

That's fine.  That doesn't explain what benefit you think there is in discussing the contradiction. 

 

Two and a half phases from now when we have multiple flips and an idea of who was targeted?  It would be pretty dumb NOT to discuss it.  But right now, we have minimal information so any discussion on that specific difference (or any discrepancy between peeks) seems like it's going to do more harm than good.  It can lead to mislynches on cops, it can lead to mislynches on peeks, and it can lead to cops getting NKed.  

 

[v]Gentled Ben[/v]

 

YOLO.

It looks like you want my one life to be a short one. 

 

You said that when you die, you will flip town, but that does not mean that Sooh's peek wasn't altered by framing. Is it possible that she is the insane cop, or will the insane cops reads all come back innocent regardless of alignment?

 

 

I'm pretty sure she would have to be the insane cop.  I assume the framer makes all investigations guilty, rather than reverse, so I don't think it would be a situation where she is sane and Iron is insane but they were flipped.

 

Two framers this game. If I was a framer, my list of framing N0 would probably be: Cory/Clov, BFG and then whoever. This is provided I'm not insane, which at the moment seems like a really real possibility.

 

I have thoughts on this, but I'm pretty sure it's better withholding them lol

@Chris: Ok, thanks. It just kind of confused me, as I have not played with these roles before, and from the way you phrased it, it looked like Sooh could not be insane, only that you could have been framed.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.  What I was saying is we wouldn't know if she's sane and I was framed, she's insane, or she lied (as either alignment).  

I really wish I knew why DM screws up my quoting every game.

[v]Gentled Ben[/v]

 

YOLO.

It looks like you want my one life to be a short one. 

You said that when you die, you will flip town, but that does not mean that Sooh's peek wasn't altered by framing. Is it possible that she is the insane cop, or will the insane cops reads all come back innocent regardless of alignment?

I'm pretty sure she would have to be the insane cop.  I assume the framer makes all investigations guilty, rather than reverse, so I don't think it would be a situation where she is sane and Iron is insane but they were flipped.

 

Why?  I see literally no point in this.

I don't want to play this like it's a vanilla game.

I want to play this like it's a game with a cop, an insane cop, a framer, and a mafia traitor.    

 

That's fine.  That doesn't explain what benefit you think there is in discussing the contradiction. 

Two and a half phases from now when we have multiple flips and an idea of who was targeted?  It would be pretty dumb NOT to discuss it.  But right now, we have minimal information so any discussion on that specific difference (or any discrepancy between peeks) seems like it's going to do more harm than good.  It can lead to mislynches on cops, it can lead to mislynches on peeks, and it can lead to cops getting NKed.  

 

[v]Gentled Ben[/v]

 

YOLO.

It looks like you want my one life to be a short one. 

 

You said that when you die, you will flip town, but that does not mean that Sooh's peek wasn't altered by framing. Is it possible that she is the insane cop, or will the insane cops reads all come back innocent regardless of alignment?

 

I'm pretty sure she would have to be the insane cop.  I assume the framer makes all investigations guilty, rather than reverse, so I don't think it would be a situation where she is sane and Iron is insane but they were flipped.

I think I'm in love with CLov.

Awww I love me too

And Soohbear :wub:

duel, dual, sure.

 

I like to suss out how people react to things.

 

I thought duel was an intentional pun.

 

 

Well, I'm heading to the pawn shop in hopes of trading a guitar I never play for a pistol I hope I never shoot (except at the range). BBL

What kind of pistol?

 

I bought the Phoenix Arms HP22A. The pawn broker didn't want to play my guitar either, so I just bought it out of pocket for a little under $200 out the door. It is a cheap gun, but it has a lifetime warranty. It's my first firearm, and I thought a 22 pistol would be a good way to start out and learn, especially because the ammo is cheap. I won't be able to take it to the range until Monday, though. I have to nap pretty soon before working a graveyard shift, and then I work graveyards again tomorrow, but I already bought some cheap Federal ammo for it, and I ordered a cleaning kit and an extended magazine (same capacity, but it's a little longer and should be a better fit) from the manufacturer a few days ago, and it should be here tomorrow. In the meantime, I played with the safeties and the magazine release, loaded and unloaded the magazine a couple of times to get a feel for it, and looked in the mirror to see if I look like James Bond (I don't).

 

It's back in the box until I am comfortable firing it, and then it will be a nightstand and range gun until I graduate to a 9mm or something better for home defense.  That might be well down the road, though. I've survived this long without a firearm, so I probably have time to learn on this one first. I do plan to get a Ruger 10/22 Take Down from Bass Pro shops while they are still running their 4 month payment plan on purchases over $100. That makes the rifle almost painless, and I always had fun shooting my friend's .22 rifle, so I know it will get some use. I like how the Take Down model comes with an extra magazine and a little backpack; that makes it super convenient to take camping and stuff, and the whole idea of it breaking down is just neat, like a little sniper rifle or something. The cool factor is pretty high on that one.

 

As a reminder, any firearm - even a .22 - is capable of pulling a small piece of metal through flesh and bone at an exceptionally high rate of speed.  To the point that the target, whether intended or otherwise, may die.  I greatly appreciate (and commend) your stance for not rushing it and taking the time to learn to safely operate it, but nothing you do with a weapon should be considered playing.  

On a side note, Sig or bust.

[v]Gentled Ben[/v]

YOLO.

While I would like to see more results given we should probably discuss the contradiction between Sooh and Ironeyes.

So what are the possibilities?

 

1) IE/Sooh are both villager.

2) IE is Villager, Sooh is Sane Cop. Vis Versa

3) IE is Villager, Sooh is Insane Cop. Vis Versa

4) IE is Sane Cop, Sooh is Insane Cop. Vis Versa

5) IE is Sane Cop, Sooh is Insane Cop and Clov was Framed. Vis Versa

6) IE is Villager, Sooh is Lying Scum. Vis Versa

7) IE is Sane Cop, Sooh is Lying Scum. Vis Versa

8) IE is Insane Cop, Sooh is Lying Scum. Vis Versa

 

And...I think that's it? Maybe? My mind is starting to melt so someone else will have to finish that list if there are more possibilities I'm missing.

Although I think 16 options is plenty to mull over jfc...

Why?  I see literally no point in this.  Unless we start getting hard claims, we're not going to be able to confirm/remove basically any of them.  From an uninformed POV, there's no way for the game to know which one is the sane cop/insane cop right off the bat.  If I get lynched, I'm going to flip town, but that doesn't immediately mean anything about Sooh because we don't know if I was framed.  

You also removed the scenario where they're BOTH mafia (though that would be an interesting way to play the peeks, I guess).  

 

While I would like to see more results given we should probably discuss the contradiction between Sooh and Ironeyes.

So what are the possibilities?

 

1) IE/Sooh are both villager.

2) IE is Villager, Sooh is Sane Cop. Vis Versa

3) IE is Villager, Sooh is Insane Cop. Vis Versa

4) IE is Sane Cop, Sooh is Insane Cop. Vis Versa

5) IE is Sane Cop, Sooh is Insane Cop and Clov was Framed. Vis Versa

6) IE is Villager, Sooh is Lying Scum. Vis Versa

7) IE is Sane Cop, Sooh is Lying Scum. Vis Versa

8) IE is Insane Cop, Sooh is Lying Scum. Vis Versa

 

And...I think that's it? Maybe? My mind is starting to melt so someone else will have to finish that list if there are more possibilities I'm missing.

Although I think 16 options is plenty to mull over jfc...

Out of these possibilities I've bolded the ones I think are most likely.

I know there's plenty of actions floating around but the odds they collided on N0 are still pretty low I think (anyone want to do the math?).

Odds are someone is lying, and also someone might be wrong.

Given that Sooh was the one with the negative result which in theory could result in Clov being lynched I am going to make an educated guess she is the liar.

Now normally I would put my vote on her and advocate for a lynch but not only do I think we need more results and discussion first I am also not sure of the usefulness of lynching someone right off the bat.

Is it worth sacrificing someone for another round of investigations? We get a lot of info but it is very very unreliable...

 

Basically IDK what to do right now lol.

Anyone got any input on any of that?

No.

 

While I would like to see more results given we should probably discuss the contradiction between Sooh and Ironeyes.

So what are the possibilities?

 

1) IE/Sooh are both villager.

2) IE is Villager, Sooh is Sane Cop. Vis Versa

3) IE is Villager, Sooh is Insane Cop. Vis Versa

4) IE is Sane Cop, Sooh is Insane Cop. Vis Versa

5) IE is Sane Cop, Sooh is Insane Cop and Clov was Framed. Vis Versa

6) IE is Villager, Sooh is Lying Scum. Vis Versa

7) IE is Sane Cop, Sooh is Lying Scum. Vis Versa

8) IE is Insane Cop, Sooh is Lying Scum. Vis Versa

 

And...I think that's it? Maybe? My mind is starting to melt so someone else will have to finish that list if there are more possibilities I'm missing.

Although I think 16 options is plenty to mull over jfc...

Out of these possibilities I've bolded the ones I think are most likely.

I know there's plenty of actions floating around but the odds they collided on N0 are still pretty low I think (anyone want to do the math?).

Odds are someone is lying, and also someone might be wrong.

Given that Sooh was the one with the negative result which in theory could result in Clov being lynched I am going to make an educated guess she is the liar.

Now normally I would put my vote on her and advocate for a lynch but not only do I think we need more results and discussion first I am also not sure of the usefulness of lynching someone right off the bat.

Is it worth sacrificing someone for another round of investigations? We get a lot of info but it is very very unreliable...

 

Basically IDK what to do right now lol.

Anyone got any input on any of that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I might guess Iron town for really dumb reasons, too, but I don't want to be wrong

Soooooo....... what changed?

Nothing?

 

So what made you guess he was town earlier, when now you think he's possible scum when I think all he posted inbetween was that he was camping?

That I talked myself out of caring very much about really stupid reasons, in favor of slightly less stupid reasons?

 

Basically the bad reasoning I would have guessed he was town was just the way he ran with the peek thing only because he was around and it was being discussed. It came across as "people said they think it will be helpful to do, so I'll do it", and he dropped me because I was here to talk to. Objectively, that means next to nothing and I'm relatively confident mafia!Iron would do it if he saw everyone else doing it.

 

That post was kind of the other side of that. Probably means nothing whatsoever in the grand scheme, gave me an impression, and not an overly strong one.

 

If reads were some sort of math problem, chalk it up as a +1 -2 type of tjing

Tsktsktsk, Clov. Good for you you agree with me.

 

For now anyway.

 

(disclaimer: I'm two and a half glass of red wine into the evening, so take everything I say from here on out with a pinch of salt.......ooooo did somebody say tequila???)

I'm just making things up as I go.

 

 

 

I might guess Iron town for really dumb reasons, too, but I don't want to be wrong

Soooooo....... what changed?

Nothing?

 

So what made you guess he was town earlier, when now you think he's possible scum when I think all he posted inbetween was that he was camping?

That I talked myself out of caring very much about really stupid reasons, in favor of slightly less stupid reasons?

Basically the bad reasoning I would have guessed he was town was just the way he ran with the peek thing only because he was around and it was being discussed. It came across as "people said they think it will be helpful to do, so I'll do it", and he dropped me because I was here to talk to. Objectively, that means next to nothing and I'm relatively confident mafia!Iron would do it if he saw everyone else doing it.

That post was kind of the other side of that. Probably means nothing whatsoever in the grand scheme, gave me an impression, and not an overly strong one.

If reads were some sort of math problem, chalk it up as a +1 -2 type of tjing

 

I might guess Iron town for really dumb reasons, too, but I don't want to be wrong

Soooooo....... what changed?

Nothing?