Yes, if I accept the premise that "RTE is Town, mod confirmed", that would change how I interpret their past interactions.

Imo, with the time we have left for the day, I saw more merit in addressing the weaker reasons for players I see as scummy voting me than I did in starting an argument with a confirmed town. If I make it to D3, I'll gladly try to do that. But I didn't want to bog the thread down arguing with our confirmed vig when I could focus on players I find scummy.

I don't care that it's your second game my guy, new people have just as much a chance of rolling wolf as old people. Your time in the game doesnt matter, wolfy moves are still wolfy moves. Should I just ignore tells because you're new and don't know they are tells yet? Well, I tried. You say you want to meet me half way here, but you're refusing to accept one of my core issues.

I'll repeat that I think the complete and total refusal to look into RTE is going to lose us the game, because it's not based on any actual in game information but personal feelings/dislike. I'd also repeat that my read of Cairos is not one based on inactivity, but on his interactions with RTE. It's not a policy lynch from me. Anyways barring RTE/Heavy, I'd go Dice, then Gud, then Turin in that order. The order matters because after removing the ones you mentioned, there are only 3 people left in the game, so I figured order would make that make more sense. 1. @HeavyHalfMoonBlade - Accepted PoE by you 2. @Gudrean 3. @Zander? Town Watcher Claimed 4. @Cass BLUE - Town Original Watcher. Lynched D1 5. @ReleaseTheEvil - Off the table by you 6. @Cairos - Off the table by you 7. @Turin Turambar 8. @dicetosser1 9. @Shad_ GREEN - Town Vanilla. Killed Night 1 10. @Lenlo Me Hi 11. @Verbal32 Vig Claimed

Like seriously, do you genuinely believe this is what I'm saying? After every other way I've tried to explain that the issue is with you attempting to setup lynches pre-flip, as if you knew what the result would be, and your following insistence of a team up between me/RTE despite the almost entirely one-way interactions and my continued OK of an RTE lynch? Do you not see, taking your hatred goggles for me off, how those actions can appear wolfy? How attempting to guide town based on information we don't yet have, and then following that up with incorrect information afterwards, appears bad? How many ways do I have to try and explain that before you understand what I'm saying and don't just completely misunderstand it? I'm not even trying to push you with this, I'm genuinely trying to figure out what the disconnect is that you go from what I said to what you said.

Sure, most of those are a bit more substantive than something I guarantee you I make regardless of alignment because I genuinely believe it to be a bad joke and that those traditions should die.

You're once again either missing the point of what I'm saying, or purposefully misrepresenting it

Then it sounds like you should go with your wolfiest read. I'm going to be frank Zander, the only person who I think has an actual justifiable reason for voting me atm is Verb. The other two are entirely because I was "mean" to them and didn't let them coast by. Do you really think that's going to catch you a wolf? Because I think it's going to lose you the game when you go into D3 down one of your most active and invested players.

Try to actually case someone else? From my pov, you've been locked in on me/RTE for the weakest of reasons and havent actually put much effort into casing anyone else in the game, just riding other peoples reads. I'd like to see some actual casing/reasoning from you on someone new. Sadly though, I dont see that doing much, because despite what you may think, my reasons for suspecting you are largely based on your late D1/N1 actions where you appeared to be setting up future lynches ahead of a flip

To answer before you do, my PoE is Heavy/Cairos/RTE, with Dice following up in 4th. The only "new" player in the last is Heavy, and you're claiming an RTE flip wouldn't give us any real information, so honestly it reads like you're just being really lazy here to be frank.

Ok so its game over if you're wrong today, but we also need to lynch the person who gives the move info even if we're wrong? Sounds like its not game over then, and you should lynch the person you think is scummiest. Who do you think my PoE actually is? Because I only have 1 person in my top 3 that is "new", but apparently that's enough for you to discredit the entire thing. You should really consider actually looking at the other half of this game.

It's not just my memory, it's there in the posts, you can go read them yourself. To be frank? No, I don't think the initial comment of "Bad joke" was in any way an over reaction or coming off to strong. After that, when I didn't back down from Zander's crap? Sure, which is why I backed off later because we were going in circles and filling up the thread with random crap. Not to say "Anyone who continues this is wolfy" as you imply. Yeah, one of those many people being you. I am well aware of how many people are using a single interaction for their entire read of me this game, they are currently voting me. I'm not? I was a participant in it, all I said was that Zander was the one to blow it up from "Bad joke bro" to "Why are you pushing me". You may not have realized this, but I really dont like it when people change what I say/make things up.

Well there's no random atm, so no reason you can't try to sell Dice to Turin/Verb. I know Heavy/Gud wont move because I've "been mean" to them and I'm the only read they've had since D1.

Dont worry, Zander will find a way to blame any resulting defeat on everyone else while taking all credit for any victory.

I never said the bold, why are you finding it so consistently difficult to repeat what actually happened in the thread? How am I not supposed to find this blatant lying about events to be wolfy? Yeah, what happened was I said "Bad joke bro" and then half the thread went "You think thats a bad joke? Why are you pushing him bro". I'm asking why people aren't pressuring her/thinking about her at all. I never asked why people weren't voting her, that's obvious.

They were fine, I was happy to get them. I was joking about how they suddenly switched the moment I finally started vocalizing my frustrations with people.

Yeah sure UNVOTE VOTE DICE I know I'm town and I'm not gonna let people who find it "rude" that they are being pressured stop me from figuring this stuff out. I'll be around at EoD, but obviously I'm not going to vote myself so I don't imagine it'll do much for you Zander

lol just noticed the votes. I guess calling out mediocre play is what switches huh? Man those dice reads must not have been very strong at all from y'all.

Except I'm not? I'm not voting her nor have I pushed a lynch on her? Why are you so consistently incapable of reporting whats actually going on in thread? "Beguiled" my guy, Zander lock cleared her from her first post, if she's wolf she won before she even had to do anything. "Work hard to cast suspicion on her" yeah, not actively participating much makes that difficult. Yes, that is how mutual exclusion of roles works.

Not what I said. What I said was that I didn't push Zander on a joke, he blew it out of proportion. I know I clapped back, there's no denying that, its in the thread. So, another point for misrepresenting what happened in this game. "Trying to help", you were actively insulting me. Well yes, making things up and misrepresenting things are wolf tactics, used by wolves to feed bad information to town and get them to mislynch people so wolves can win the game. I never called you a terrible player, I said your actions were indicative of wolfy behavior, which is no different from what you've done to me. But apparently when I do it, I'm an asshole, because god forbid I hold you to task for what you've said in game.

Now obv some information, such as roles, should be kept private as there is more power in keeping those secret, at least until the right time to reveal them. Reveal to early, get NK'ed, reveal to late, risk being useless. This balance of information is what makes mafia fun, for me at least. It's why I critique what I am.

It also just helps build a paper trail so that, as the game goes on, read/vote progression can be analyzed or looked back on in light of new information/flips. Mafia is a game of information, town want as much as possible while Wolves typically try to reduce the amount of (useful) information as much as possible. Hence it is pro-town to voluntarily provide as much information as possible.

No, of course not. No one is saying you're breaking the rules either. Who's being petty now?

It's also worth saying btw, some of the most charmed, charismatic players can be polite to a fault while wolf, and some town can be absolute raging arses. Imo, it's NAI, the content of the posts is what matters usually not the attitude. Esp cause attitude can be faked.

tbc, I dont think it's a purposeful tactic to get me to stop pushing them, I dont think its some thought out plan, if that's what you are assuming from AtE. Just seems like their default approach to the game.