4 hours ago, NetNightmare said:

I do watch the show, I will stay awake till 1 am tonight to watch the new episode. I do somewhat enjoy it, but to be honest I was hoping to love it (which sadly is not the case) especially this one we will se the next see you in the next thread he he

I'm in a similar boat. I enjoy aspects of it of the show. Most of the actors are terrific. Rand was perfectly cast (but I kinda have this nagging suspicion the writers just aren't going to give him the focus he received in the books). But I want to love the show, I want it to be an improvement on the book series. And so far the show's writing and production just aren't very good. This is 90s/00s cable channel stuff with a few larger set pieces and slightly better effects.

5 hours ago, deathgate said:

 

It worked for GOT. Of course the book readers know they aren't big characters (Logain is later) but it does add some of that GOT/SoF&I dread that one of your favorite characters may die at any moment. I almost stopped reading GOT because of that but it slowed way down after the first book. WOT is almost the opposite where all of the favorites live so adding some that may seem favorites that die or are tossed aside makes the others vulnerable (to the non book readers).

One of your favorite characters.... for two episodes? I don't think this analogy holds up.

16 minutes ago, Bruan said:

all they’re missing a one ‘e’ to make it an anagram. Makes you wonder if the name was originally ‘Stepine’ or something lol.

He was clearly transitioning toward the end, so that makes a lot of sense. 

1 hour ago, grayavatar said:

 

In the books Loial is very expressive with his forehead and eyebrows but in the show that whole area seems like inflexible rubber.

Exactly. It’s a mess. At least he can move his mouth but everything around the eyes is just totally immobile and fake. 

5 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:

Since, I tend to think that the makeup for most fantasy races mostly look like crap anyway, I've gotten used to not paying too much attention to it.   I'm also a child of the 80's so mileages can vary greatly.

 

Overall, it is a very weird thing to get too upset over to me.

Oh believe me, I’m there with you. Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, etc. etc. But while I loved those as a kid I now expect a lot better from production these days. 
 

I mean it’s frustrating because I agree that they got the actor right, and the actor got the demeanor right, and that’s the hard stuff. And then go and whiff on the easier stuff like not making his prosthetics look cheap and fake. And now that’s all I can think about when I see him - how’d they screw up the easy part?

I’m happy for people who can look past Loial’s fro and phony prosthetics and just enjoy him as a character. I can’t get over how fake his head looks. I don’t give a fig about the height if they could just make him look real.

5 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

Rand "seeing" Dragonmount again.

 

Or it may be a vague memory from when hes being brought past it as a baby?

[envision Mat’s “that’s not how roads work” voice] That’s not how infant memories work.

7 hours ago, LordyLord said:

I think this Review below succintly explains the issue with the episode and to an extent the whole series.

 

Its a very objective critique

 

Woah. Look, there are some things here that I personally find too nitpicky, but pretty much every bit of this critique is justified. She hits on two major shortcomings: the physical production, and the writing.
 

I don’t know how much can honestly be done about the writing - I suspect that may be a lost cause - but I dearly wish Rafe would get every member of the production team together and make them watch at least the first ten minutes of this video. Maybe it’s the lighting, maybe it’s the focus, or the aperture, or the lack of dirt, or not enough extras, but they have somehow got to make the show look more real.

On 12/4/2021 at 5:51 PM, Ralph said:

I assumed [Rand's recognizing DM was] supposed to be memory of prior life seeping through. Not seeing it but creating it

LTT's "memory" of creating DM would basically be "gah I'm dead!" He wouldn't have "seen" DM from a distance such that this image could be transferred forward. And of course Rand was way too young to have any memories of DM himself. Maybe Tam brought home a postcard from the war? That, or we're down to dreams and visions and such. Could also just be more sloppy writing that they don't care to clean up, but that would real sloppy.

I haven’t read all 26 pages, but what’s the theory on Rand having seen Dragonmount before? Dreams or visions and such?

2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

By the way, speaking of minor nuisances, while I like the scenery it chafes that we never see any farm or plantation. I mean, the buildings yes, farms with barns and everything. But not actual fields. they aren't growing anything. even tar valon, a huge city, what do they eat? it's all woods around as far as the eye can see. it spoils a bit the atmosphere

They eat persimmons. 

So if you watch the "making of Epi 5" feature, the whole warder funeral thing was just totally made up. Doesn't sound like they even really tried to borrow from the books. The writer just looked for cool funeral rituals to cobble something together, and that's how we got this whole designated mourner bit. I don't really care about little changes like Lan showing emotion, but just FYI.

5 minutes ago, caemlyncal said:

I felt like a kid on Christmas morning seeing Loial for the first time!! Who cares that he isn't tall enough, he brought me the most joy of the series so far. not saying other parts didn't bring me joy. Unlike the nitpickers I absolutely love everything they have done so far. ONCE AGAIN THIS IS NOT A BOOK IT IS A TV SHOW ADAPTATION!!!

This one's for you. Loial's prosthetics look about as real and expressive as....

It's not about height - it's the mask. It's not good. The dude can't even move his eyebrows!

29 minutes ago, Rand the Plumber said:

LOIAL! … The expression on his face was subtle, but conveyed much.

I’m going to need to rewatch, but I don’t recall much expression at all. His face reminds of the Burger King mascot. Looks like a wooden mask. 

29 minutes ago, Rand the Plumber said:

 

I now get what some people have been saying about the sets looking too clean and polished: the grubbiness seems artificial.  It detracts from the atmosphere.

Welcome aboard. 

57 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

Episode 5 is finished and we still haven't mentioned blademasters yet.  Lan still hasn't shown his prowess, Rand doesn't have any special relationship with Lan and hasn't practiced swords, we haven't had special mention of Tams sword, there was no Two Rivers quarterstaff competition to show some of the skills these men had growing up, no Garrth Bryne scene to point out Rands heron mark blade, no Lan killing a fade....

 

They really need to start building some of that stuff up soon.  Otherwise Rand it won't be believable for Rand to defeat a blademaster at the end of season2.  And if they delete that from the show then they have missed some of the best moments in the books

‘cause misdirection, yo. I assume we’ll get this stuff next season. As book fans, we all find it extremely annoying. Maybe it works for the general audience. I dunno. 

Ok, so in addition to my responses just above, other thoughts....

1. Those are some shallow graves. Hope Perrin's wolves aren't nearby.

2. That little dinky bridge they cross as they approach TV was pretty LOL. Like, you know they put a lot of effort into that. Probably at least $10k. To cross a 5-foot gully. It's little stuff like that that just looks so cheese.

3. Yay - more gay humor! These are the important updates this show needs.

4. Rand is terrific! Or he will be, once we get the focus where it belongs. They really nailed the casting.

5. CG TV looks terrific.

6. Real TV (street scene) is back to the 90s YA / CW / Xena vibe. It's just so bad.

7. Did you guys notice the easter egg in in Karaethon Cycle?! They updated it to "he or she"!

Final point - lot's of folks saying this was the weakest episode. I don't know what you're watching. At least this episode has some pretty great dialogue. Episode 3 was easily the worst so far. Followed by 2.

11 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Liked/Disliked: 

#1. Liked that we got mention/foreshadowing of Forsaken (though not as happy about the only named Forsaken being Ishy - we had better get Lanfear as well ... She can't be cut can she?) 

They're not cutting her. The forsaken idol thing was weird but very effective. A much more effective way to introduce the concept of Forsaken than another boring Moiraine monologue.

11 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

#2. Liked that we got Loial (didn't like that he was 2 feet, at least, too small -- it's not that difficult to use camera angles and stuff to make him HUGE). 

They're definitely getting the character right. The look is awfully cheesy. Getting a real 90s makeup and prosthetics vibe. Biggest problem is that because of all the prosthetics, his mouth and his eyes don't move enough when he talks, which makes it look extremely fake. And of course he's too small, but that's really not the problem here.

11 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

#3. Liked that we got Logain laughing in the cage scene (reeeally disliked that they're strongly implying he's laughing at Matt & not Rand ... That ruins one of the most iconic book scenes.) 

I think the scene was effective. I don't mind the misdirection.

11 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

#4. Liked that we got some WT politic-ing. Disliked that they're making it seem as if they're gonna combine (I'm guessing of course but based on this episode I think it's a pretty reasonable conclusion) Liandrin with Elaida. 

Oh they're def combining those characters. Which is fine, I guess.

11 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

#5. Simply did not like that they spent a bunch of time on Steppin ... every minute counts on bringing our beloved WoT to screen ... don't give me a sob story about tears shed with cuts that needed to be made if you're going to invent a character & ceremonies & give 10 min or more of screen time to something that isn't WoT ... and then just kill him (to show the significance of the Warder/Aes Sedai bond??? You've already spelled that out for us - we get it! 

Did not really bother me, provided they really pick it up in these final episodes. Get your butts into the Ways and onto the Eye!!!

11 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

#6. Did like the wolves & that they're not doing CGI wolves & Golden eyes. But am hoping for some more communication. 

Wolves were all kinds of not good. The practical effects have been rough, that's for sure.

11 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

#7. Don't especially like that the WC are Nazis. We could definitely be getting a more ... I dunno ... relatable telling. Perhaps we still will when it's not just Questioners. 

I thought the WC / Valda stuff was quite effective. Got no issues here.

13 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:

We got a Blood and Bloody Ashes...

No we didn't. We got "Bloody Ashes." That particular wager is still OPEN with three episodes to go. 

3 hours ago, Arie said:

Example of constructive criticism.

"The writers fridging Perrin's wife was a mistake. It goes against his character, and they could have given his character motivation without falling on that tired trope."

Example of trollish criticism.
"This show is woke liberal feminist trash. Rafe should go die in a gutter. I hope this stupid show is cancelled, and these SJW clowns stop trying to shove their trans feminist gay agenda down my throat."

I would agree that your example of trollish criticism is worded quite rudely. But is any criticism of making changes to the story to appeal to Woke sensibilities de facto trolling? That seems like a valid viewpoint to me, even if some disagree. I ask because at least one moderator has previously opined that the very use of the W word is grounds for censorship, which strikes me as a little odd that that word is now considered a pejorative.

13 minutes ago, Kudzu said:

 

So you think she'll be at the White Tower already? That would be the most logical place.

 

Thinking on Min and the rumour (really getting nit picky now lol). The problem is with the first oath.

 

"There are rumours of 4 ta'veren". If Moiraine has the information directly from Min, or even from Min via an eyes and ears contact, then that statement isn't true. The same would apply if for example a ta'veren seeing Aes Sedai had been through. For "rumours" to be true the information has to be circulating somewhere.

 

Like I said, really nit picky, but it does annoy me. There are so many other ways to phrase that to make it more believable. I tell you what if they resolve it nicely, it will be a very positive indication of attention to detail. 

But you can fix anything with “maybe Moiraine misheard/misunderstood”. So problem solved. 

3 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Don't see that as a disagreement. Alanna might have meant "What if we're supposed to fight with the Dragon  (but he is a male) and the reds gentled him?"

And then Mo should have responded “welp, maybe the Dragon will be a girl!” to make Alanna feel better. You know, because maybe Mo (who has devoted her life to finding the DR) “misunderstood the prophesy.” LOL

14 minutes ago, 2RiversFan said:

I think that the Dragonmount scene will be the start of Ep. 8.  My theory it will be very close to the way it appears in book, but it is going to be the intro to Rand being the DR.

If by Dragonmount scene you mean The Prologue, then I can get behind this. I hope it happens.

I'm not sure how they do the birth scene as a flashback because that would be Tam's flashback. So I guess it'll be a dream or something. Or maybe it'll be Rand having a flashback of Tam's flashback? A flashback within a flashback?!

56 minutes ago, MarcusM said:

 

A fan’s thought on the show so far...

Agree with most of your points. A few nits....

56 minutes ago, MarcusM said:

We have a total of 14 + 1 books to turn into a show of maybe some 8 seasons. I highly doubt that we would get 14 seasons of this. That means 2 books roughly per season

Not if you massively trim down the latter half of the series. Which Rafe has already said they'll have to do. TEOTW makes a very good Season 1 all by itself. TSR better damn well get a full season's worth of episodes.

56 minutes ago, MarcusM said:

Also – it seems now that the series is out that we put these chronicles upon a pedestal! As far as I remember the books, we had many many almost unnecessary plotlines and the middle of the series around book 6/7-10, pace was infatuating slow. Fans were seriously disappointed (not only with the speed of writing) but also with the actual content of these books. Given this, there is a potential to actually make the TV series better than the books. Pray the light! (and please don’t flame away)

BINGO. I agree completely. My hope for WOTTV was that it could be better than WOT by cleaning up the bloat, fleshing out the characters, making the Forsaken actually somewhat competent, etc. There IS room for improvement.

56 minutes ago, MarcusM said:

To all the fans out there that expected no changes – go make a reality check of your preconceived presumptions!

I don't think even the harshest critics here have suggested that.

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

I still posit this comes from lack of understanding.  Aes Sedai have some pretty set ideas about how much strength any given ability takes.  Logain has even less understanding than them.  Nynaeve is a prodigy healer who does things in weird ways with all powers.  

She just healed 12+ mortal injuries in a radius without physical contact.  Something the sisters would see as borderline impossible.  On top of that he can't see the weaving to see that she's doing something odd.  So from his perspective she just used overwhelming force when in reality she just used more finesse and control.

....and I've seen NFL wide receivers perform some mind-bendingly spectacular feats of athleticism, but I've never described them as "like a raging sun." We know from the books that massive displays of power have a visual radiance to those who can see the weaves. Beating dead horse - I'll stop now.

Well, except one more example. Rafe gave an interview specifically detailing the reasons the writers deliberately opened up the DR to be male or female (to "update" the work) and how they realize this will have ramifications. Then after a couple of weeks of blowback from the book fans, he gave a completely different explanation in a Reddit AMA that "hey, maybe she doesn't understand the prophesy." And you and other fans are actually trying to reconcile those positions. They can't be reconciled. Not every decision the writers make is defensible or needs to be defended. Sometimes they just goof. I still like the show, and I'm not trying to be nitpicky.

IMHO some folks on these boards are being overly nitpicky - just my perception, we all have things we find more important than others - and other folks seem to be bending over backwards to justify sloppy writing.

The Logain “like a raging sun” comment was sloppy writing. I mean, it sounded cool, but it deviates from the lore. Maybe he saw something, sure. He saw a bunch of people getting healed, and maybe Nyn even visually lit up the cave (like they do in an operating room!) but we all know “the raging sun” and the emotional way Logain said it, as a channeler himself, was prompted by him seeing the magnitude of Nyn’s channeling. We know this because there were several examples of this reaction in the books, except not in lore-breaking ways.

I get it, people want this show to be as real as possible, so they want to find ways to make the lore consistent. But the writers messed this one up. Doesn’t really bother me - I actually find the defense of the screw up funnier than I find the mistake irritating.