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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

SinisterDeath

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Everything posted by SinisterDeath

  1. Depends if they see it coming or not. They 'can' make shields of air around them afterall... A well placed arrow or bullet could take them out... But prolly only if they are A) not actually 'grasping' the source. B) If they are, weak enough or slow enough to react.
  2. But it was the CK whose creation led to the breaking. There were basically two opposing strategies during the War of the Power. LTT's idea of sealing the bore (which he meant to do with combined Seidin and Seidar) and the Lara Pose's faction to use the huge Sa'angreals to do the same. The second approach was ruled out when the access keys were all destroyed or lost, but they still refused to cooperate with LTT, leading to him going with only (some of) the men. If the CK were not created, the women may have gone along with LTT and then perhaps the bore would be sealed properly and Seidin would not have been tainted. Of course, it could be that that both halves would be tainted... The point is that the very existence of the CK affected the decisions made at the time, and thus in a sense the CK were in fact the cause of the taint. If the CK were not created and the female Aes Sedai went along with Lews Therin, both halves of the True Source would be tainted and the world would be destroyed. Using the access keys wouldn't have affected the Dark One any better except for the fact that he'd have the chance to taint saidar along with saidin. The access keys have only done good in this series, and there were no negative effects from their creation. If the access keys were never created, the end of the war against the Shadow would have been far worse. I agree with sheikh; the Choedan wasn't too powerful when it cleansed saidin but now it is conveniently right before the Last Battle. They may as well destroy every angreal and sa'angreal while they're at it, since those are too much power for a single person supposedly. The DO lashed out before he was sealed away, and in that lashing he tained Saidan. There were only 100 males there, performing escentially half a shield. If they had 100 females there to perform it, they may well have went from 'shielding' (WHICH if you don't realize, is similar to shielding channelers, and those 'shields' can be 'broken', or like in the DO's case, 'lashed out against). But with both male and female powers, they may verywell have done Severed the DO's connectino from the world entirely. (aka completely fixing the 'bore' no 'seals'. The female Aes Sedia wanted to create the Choden Kal becuase they thought they could use Brute Force against, basically a FORCE in there universe! You can't fight 'time' with brute force. (in the case of weathering, you can't fight 'water/wind/gravity/time/ect' either) Rand destroyed the CK because it was so addictive, read his chapters over again in TGS if you don't believe it. As soon as he got his paws over it, he was practically slobbering all over it. Nyneave is the same way, her 'POV' indicates that she's still suffering 'withdrawls' from that amount of power. She'd love to get a taste of it again. There is a REASON the aes sedia talk about not training through excessive use of the OP, because it IS addictive. And like almost all addictive substances, you tend to take more, and more and more until you Die. Whats the point of using the CK when callandor or the lil fat man are just as good? Also Irony about Egwenes speach to Elidia about her 'putting rand in a box'. She stated that, if he was the dragon reborn, putting him in that box wouldn't have allowed him to fullfill his prophecies, so her plan was doomed from the start. The irony is, had Elidia not done that, Rand maywell not have fullfilled the other prophecies, like the '2 becoming 1'!
  3. Oh, yeah. Definitely. I was just pointing out that NetSlider had good reasoning, but then again, one of the developers said that the Wheel of Time and another fantasy series served as some inspiration or something to that effect. Hopefully, there'll be a WoT game released soon. Fingers crossed! Its inspiration and not wholesale plaguerism... What was that other book series that RJ practically called 'plaguerism' on? Wasn't it something done by terry goodkind? Now if there magic system in that game had all 'males' using magic as 'evil', and were to be killed on the spot. That be somethign entirely different! Given some of the sideboob I saw in that game (From the previews) Perhaps its close to Conan? (RJ also wrote conan, so you know he's good on the huge chested women in games/movies :P)
  4. As proven with the begger prophecy, it was metaphorical, this could be to. And thats 'only' what cads/min are discussing. It could be reffering to the nations (Theres already that ONE where rand has to unite the east/west together, and the north?) The 3 major factions, non magic/female magic/male magic into one against evil. or the 3 ta'varen. Hell it could even reffer to rand/lewis/moridin. (doubtful) Won't work. The TP IS The DO. Just as Saidan/Sadar is the CREATOR. Only the DO says 'who can and can't' use his power. All the DO has to do, to screw that 'plan up' is to deny Moridin use of his power. If the DO suspects the TP is being used to seal his prison, he'll simply deny it use. I believe the key is Saidan/Sadar/Singing/and the 3 most powerful Ta'varen (that already warp the pattern) The bore was only sealed with saidan, not sadar. Thats like using 'half' of the power of 'light' to destroy the full power of darkness. All you'll get is Gray.. dark gray. Put up both, and they may very well destroy each other. And hey, if it drives both males/females insane... Well they got sul'dam don't they? :P Bela, Padan Fain, and Shadar Haren are going to merge into one super horse/evil/evilness thing to destroy the dark one. Because the DO killed Shadar Haren's little sister/wife/mother. And Padan Fain just wanted to be in a 3-some like Rand.
  5. Ummm...What? Plenty of false dragons channelled before. And what were Red Ajah doing? Precicely. Gentling men who were channeling. Were red ajah AS just sitting around on a holiday last 2000+ years?-) Must be reason they are biggest ajah then! Join red ajah and you are quaranteed of not having to DO anything ;-) Channel, yes but actually doing something with it? Not so common. Theres shit rand does in the books, completely untrained. Do you think Logain had anywhere near rands level of 'progress', '1 year later'? Rand did it all virtually unaided (till Asmodean). Those had to have come from 'old memories', that rand started to develop. Besides, the Red Ajah found and gentled men before they could really DO anything with the power. What happens if any channeler tries to weave and fails at it? Very bad things. Thats what happens. (generally resulting in there own death)
  6. ITs to early to tell which of the '3' they are talking about... Heres my bets. The 3 major Ta'varen. (Rand/Mat/Perrin) The 3 Major factions of the world. Seanchan/Dragonsworn/Aes Sedia (Aka, Seanchan/WT (pro women)/BT (pro men) or, Non-magic/Female magic/Male Magic all working together) The Calandor Theory... OF course, there is a '4th' possibility. those 3, are the 3, becoming 1. ;) As for the two becoming one, that is obviously completed as Rand + Lewis Therin are now 1 person. We saw them merging more and more, specially after he killed Semi(or did he! :P) He started recalling memories, without his lil voice in his head telling him about it. I believe that that 'voice' of lewis therin was both real, and imaginary. Someone said that in the 'ogier prophecy', they mentioned that rand was supposed to have memories of his past lives, and he didn't. So the simpleist explanation is through the same link mat had through the 'old blood' (so to speak). In time, rand should have remembered more and more about the past, which we kinda actually DO see through the first few novels.. (like him instinctively channeling even though NO MAN has actually 'channeled' in 2000+ years.) When Elida had him thrown in the box though, To me that broke rands psyhe, forcing those memories to gather together, and form a new pysche, with everything that lewis therin knew. IE, in moder psychology, rand would be quite insane hearing another person voice. But in this case, it was both real and fake. The memories were real, they were from the past. Lewis Therins own emotions/personality was there. But rand had 'seperated' himself from his past life, so it was like 'split personality', only different. After rand finally tipped the scale and realized what he was doing, its obvious that he broke down that final wall, and destroyed lewis therin. (Didn't min say that one will live, and one will die?) Most of the prophecies rands completed now pretty much were 'straight up, right in the face'. The last one about the 'begger/staff/blind/ect' was far more metaphorical. With this in mind we really, really have to look at more of the unsolved? prophecies in the books through a metaphorical angle. DO's Prison. Lewis Therin basically said "You can't defeat the DO through brute force" Talking about how him and the 100 other men sealed the DO', and the women wanted to build the choden kal to 'destroy' the DO. Aka, Women were using Brute Force, Men were using something that wasn't 'brute force'. (I call this Irony ;) ) Last but not least. I believe that the whole 'to live you must die', has been asnwered by Lewis Therin/Tam. Death/Rebirth is there '2nd chance'. Rand has to die, to kill Moridin. All 3 ta'varen have to be at shayol Gul, possibly the song involved, and a few other things to finally seal the prison. But Moridin Definately hast to die. Death is going to be How Rand can 'live again'. Be it via the horn, or through his children, but I do not believe rand is going to 'live happily ever after'. ;)
  7. Wow, people totally miss-what was going on in the book. Destroying the massive sa'angreal was a GOOD thing. Part of the reason why Rand started going 'darker and darker' was Because of the the access key! It was his meth, he HAD to have it near him at all times to 'carress it'. It was deeply addictive and manipulative. Theres a reason Shadar Haren did not take it. And worse yet, what if demodred got his hands on it? Destroying it pretty much gaurntees that no one person good or evil can have access to something that is 'too' powerful. And besides, Rand has tons of sa'angral laying around that gives him the edge over any forsaken. ALSO Lewis Therins memories indicate, that you CAN NOT DEFEAT THE DARKONE through BRUTE FORCE alone! His armies fighting the armies of the dark one, is only going to be a 'minor portion' of the upcoming battle. Thats not even the real 'final' battle. The real 'final' battle is not going to be fought with armies. I can almost gaurntee that.
  8. She could be 'bound by honor' to rand. Much like the Aiel. They commented in the book, thats the only thing the aiel and seanchan have in common, is there 'honor'. If Tuon uses that oath with rand, she won't break it.
  9. I was planning to ask brandon Sanderson this question at the minneapolis signing, but I was unfortunately unable to attend. (another year or two until I can!) Has brandon sanderson, ever watched the anime, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. That question actually has a reason... Try reading mistborn, while watching that anime. There are sooo many parrallels its psychotic! (Course the ending of that anime is competely different from the final book, but the end of Mistborn was like the end of the 'halfway' mark of the anime.) The other obvious questions are, (If you are standing in line) Is the one we are lead to believe to be toasted, Toasted? (aka grendal) The one we saw who was toasted, by other means, can we assume the toaster acts the same as any other toaster?
  10. The answer is simple. A - Rand talking to min B - Rand has domination band on his neck C - Rand starts choking min D - Rand chokes her some more E - Rand Balefires the forsaken & the other lady. Balefire was weak enough to balefire there threads to D And not B. Had Rand Balefired that forsaken to A, The band would have disapeared. HE only did a 'weak' balefire. As weak as the one he did on his SHIRT! It wasn't a minutes or hours balefire, it was a 'seconds' one. It should be noted, that balefire isn't always consistant. And if you use Quantum Mechanics, some of those inconstistancies have to remain. Basically that going 'back' in time, can completely negate the grandfather effect, simply by replacing the timeline you are on. Prime time line is a straight line. Go change something in the past. It has no effect on you, but everything around you changes. For all we know, because rand was touching min, at the time, it could have effected how balefire affected everything... Idea being like that 'mat pose' guarding the door. If rand blasted it 20 minutes into the past, mat shouldn't have been at the door. So, while rand blasted the two women away, the timeline still sees it as him choking Min. And heres another possibility. The weaker the blast of balefire, the weaker its effect on the timeline. Not just in 'how far' back it goes, but also how many threads around it, it affects... And just to throw a monkey wrench into it all... Rand used the TP, from the DO. If this balefire works differently because it used the DO's Power. She may not actually be dead. :P (course, DO's a prick and has no reason to ressurect her, assuming becuase it was a balefire using the Do's power the DO could siphon her soul before it was destroyed, or even the balefire made from the DO could siphon it to him instead of destroying it.) <_< But, do you REALLY want to go down the train of thought that TP balefire works differently? ;)
  11. So, I'm 100% right. :P That link listed that the difference in power between levels, isn't neccisarilly the same. Aka if it were 500 points between 1 and 2, it could be 600 between 2 and 3...
  12. I don't believe her 'circle' was that full, Read the chapter again, There were 'several' novices, forming 'smaller circles', guarding various 'entrances' like stairwells and hallways. So if there were say, 20 novice/accepted on that floor, she could have had 5 gaurding one set of stairs, 5 guarding another, 5 making rounds around the hallways, and another 5 sitting in that room, while Egwene plays anti-airplane-turret. I still don't think her power in that circle + sa'angrael increased her power to as some said 'super sedia level 3'. I'm betting it did something closer to 2x, or 3x. Assuming angreal/sa'angreal aren't 'addative', but... increase based on multiples... Course, if the sa'angreal brought someone who could 'barely knock over a can', up to Egwenes level, And if the circle alone brought egwene to egwenes level, If its addative, that would make Egwene x2. IF its multiple, that be like say... Egwene x75. This also begs the question. Ranking Aes Sedia on there Power, is it static or is it closer to 'warp factors' from star trek? Warp Factor - C = speed of light 1 - 1c 2 - 10c 3 - 40c 4 - 102c 5 - 213c 6 - 393c 7 - 656c 8 - 1024c 9 - 1516c 9.5 - 2548c 9.8 - 4472c 9.99999999999999 - 20868565745c 10 - ∞ Nyneave would be an 8, Egwene a 7, and a Sa'angreal could bring her to a 9.0, Her + circle + sa'angral could bring her to a 9.5.
  13. I don't think Egwene was using as much as you guys seem to think she was... She was probably in a small circle of 4 or 5 accepted, with that sa'angral which 'barely' brought her to her 'normal levels' outside said circle... If anything she was probably near 'nyneave' levels all said and done. ;) Course, the fight wasn't won by shere power, but by egwene actually getting off her ass and doing something. Unlike the accepted, She knows deadly weaves... (most taught by the seanchan noless. <_<)
  14. I'm half expecting her to require all aes sedia returning from absenses of any length, to retake the oaths and declare they aren't a darkfriend infront of no-less than 4 aes sedia. <_< Also, the accepted/novice, unlike the full fledged aes sedia, even if they are dark friends, they may not have had any 'oath', like the black ajah had. I think I remember Verin saying the black ajah only recruited from aes sedia, because of there 'oaths'. (Replacing them with that dark oath) Still wondering what the 'black ajah' oath rod is though, she mentioned it was '...different', implying it was probably the DO himself? Definately not 13 BA/13 Mydraal method spoke of in the earlier novels, which makes for a complete 'personality reversal'...
  15. I think your all forgeting, that rand may have only balefired Semi with a 'tiny' bit of balefire, Bringing events back only seconds instead of hours.
  16. Your looking at that comment though, completely OUT of context. Face value if you will. Lets assume your a guy. Lets apply some random sexism from daily life into it. Blonde Women = Dumb. Women who dress scantaly, want you too look at them. ect Obviously not true. (Except for maybe the 2nd one... Thats sometimes true, course not all will admit that) Those are mild compared to other sexism out there. But you reverse the tables, in this Universe where men, specially those who can channel are Not to be trusted? and its like being a white guy in a black panther meeting citing a black joke? Are the people in Randland sexist? Damnright. But all things considered, How can "egwene" Trust rand, specially after all he has done (that she doesn't know about)? They've only 'heard' rumors that the taint is cleansed from Sadain, but to them, wheres the proof? They have reason to believ men are going to go insane, and Rand with them. And they 'need' him to save the world. So if that means trying to lead an insane man across a tight rope, so be it. Its not as 'black and white' as her statement makes it sound. And at least Egwene, unlike 'others' of the Aes Sedia, actually want to 'talk with', instead of 'talk' and be 'obyed'. Egwene really can't trust rand, Specially since right now (well prior to the very ending) he don't trust any aes sedia as far as he can throw them without the power. If the person yoru talking to doesn't trust you, how can you trust them? + Look at the womens circle in 2 rivers when it comes to Men. You really only have to look that far to see how she came to her conclusions. Course, the guys from the 2 rivers will tell you that the men are really in control.
  17. And, that's what I mean about Egwene taking her eye off the ball. Sure re-uniting the Tower is important. But it isn't the be-all and end-all of everything - except to her. Totally wrong-headed. Becoming an entire SAM battery was a great thing. It was exactly what that single, short, situation required. It has nothing to do with her basic wrong-headedness. To Wit: The Tower is all. The Tower must be whole. The Aes Sedai must return to their rightful place as the ultimate arbiters in all things. That is so wide of the mark the bullet doesn't even land on the shooting range. Service. That's what being an Aes Sedai is supposed to mean. They're supposed to be servants not masters. They can't do that, ever, if they are destroyed, and left to roam. Rand set a precident with the black tower, meaning to balance the white tower. The land NEEDS a place to teach people those powers. The seanchan don't want to 'teach'. This is basically going to have 3 effects. Land that is 'headed' by female channelers. (White Tower, Those who are aggainst the seanchan, but not against rand, but not exactly buddy buddy either) Land that is 'headed' by male channelers. (Black Tower, Rand/Dragons sworn) Land that is 'headed' by no channelers. (Seanchan/White Cloaks) Theres more than one reason they 'all' need to unite. They can't just let channelers run amock. Nor shoudl they enslave them. Even among the Aiel the 'channelers' virtually 'rule' them. Egwene and Nyneave both share sentinments about taking 'power' out of the equation of aes sedia 'ranking', probably do away with 'ranking' entirely. That is leaps and bounds above anything the tower has done in a millienia. And you can't explore rand'land in the same context as 'our' earth. Our own history have 'men' who had no issue with going to 'harams', but find the very idea of women even talking to another 'man' to be punishable by death. The only difference is Jordan did a role reversal. You have to take alot of things into consideration here... 'Men' dropped the A Bomb on Hiroshima. Didn't do much in changing anything. in Randland 'men' 'stopped' evil, and in turn, became insane and killed everyone they knew. Thats going to have an effect, and if that means aes sedia can't trust 'men', so be it. Theres more than one way that 'trust' can be meant in the context Egwene said.
  18. Hrm... did we read the same passage? (following paragraphs from page 574 slightly paraphrased) (Emphasis mine) Seems to me to show the very epitome of a "reaction" to the existence vs. anti-existence. Since we're talking magic in nature, obviously it's not going to be the same thing as if covered by physics, but the bolded section above seems pretty clear to me that there was a reaction - both spiritual and physical, in the world and in the Pattern - and it was a major reaction. Just sayin'... String Theory + Quantum Mechanics + A weapon that destroys something before it actually hits it, before you actually see it destroyed, before you even rememberd seeing it. But still, because of those rules, you only see that it was there, then not. Pattern = string theory. Pluck a thread, shake off the info thats on it, and thats what happens. Course this 'event' was no where near what happened in book 11, where some experienced 'outer-body'experiences...
  19. ARE YOU reading the same book I am? Re-uniting the tower IS Important. If Egwene just abandoned the tower to the seanchan, let it collapse under its own weight, that could have been just as disastrous, had Rand Bale-fired Ebou Dar. I disagree. Look at what Tam said to rand. Its not What you do, but WHY you do it. Why is rand doing what he did? It is fundementally different then WHY egwene did what she did. And it is definately not 'wrong' of her to shoot down those to'raken with aes sedia down. It would have been 'VERY' bad if they got traveling... and its almost assured that they do. Her stance on rand? Look what he's done, in a matter of speaking, by 'not' being able to trust others. RAND is under the assumption he has to bear the weight of the world upon only his shoulders. Egwene & Others are trying to get it through his head, He doesn't. The entire World, should bear the weight, Not just one man. You can only hit Carbon Steel so many times with something that is heavier and harder then it, before it shatters. Rands weakness is his ties to those he cares about. The Forsaken know this. If he tries to bear that weight himself, instead of with others, its going to do alot more than just crush him. But The others also need to realize, that they can't just say 'jump' and expect him to jump. This is the lesson Tam is going to teach Cadusane, The lesson Moiraine learned. They seem to have forgot the Aes Sedai creed. Convince someone to do what you want them to do, by making them think it was there own idea. Cads, Egwene, Nyneave, Seanchan, they all want him to do what they want him to do, They aren't doing the above at all. But the important thing is, That they are trying to get Rand to understand, he can't do it alone. Rand maybe the Dragon Reborn, a 'savior', but that arrogance he has that he is above all others, is what is going ot make him fail more than anything else. Egwene doesn't have 'zero respect' for Rand, If anything she now understands his reasonsings for why he has done what 'she knows' that he has done. You have to remember, most of them don't even know he 'has' 2 wounds in his side, nor 1 hand. They are a bit behind, That isn't ignorance, Thats reality.
  20. I have never seen RJ say anything like that. He has however said that none of the main female characters are ta'veren, which rules out Egwene. Rand needs Egwene to be Amyrlin, so the Pattern has made it happen for him. Its an effect of Rand's ta'vareness. I would not give Rand all the credit, as a lot of the actions that lead to Egwenes ascension took place far from Rand, where not even his ta'vereness should be able to influence matters. And thing is, for most of the key events, it was not necessary. Mesaana and the BA played their part in bringing down Siuan, Egwene should have been the obvious choice for the rebels to chose, considering her connection to Rand. Grnted, it was very likely Rands ta'vereness that made Egwene leave the TR in the first place, but that is a different story. The one thing that we might give him direct credit for is the attack. Had Tuon agreed to his terms, the attack would not have happened, and Egwene would not get this combination of events that made the WT decide to offer her the Seat. Course if the seanchan didn't bow to him, he wouldn't have fullfilled the prophcecy 'before' he is to fullfill the one with the crystal throne. <_<
  21. I have never seen RJ say anything like that. He has however said that none of the main female characters are ta'veren, which rules out Egwene. Rand needs Egwene to be Amyrlin, so the Pattern has made it happen for him. Its an effect of Rand's ta'vareness. And we have seen what seems to be a giant expansion of this effect for Mat, and that means Rand (and prolly perrin too) will have an even larger bending. Course, there is Egwenes 'dreaming' that shows the tower getting attacked, and that test as accepted, combined with the 'dream ring' verin gave her, a more than 'accurate' depiction of one of the many possible futures (similar to the way stones, only combined with dream ring, gave one far more true). IT could be alike what Min's viewings... Also consider this. http://www.wotmud.org/directory/maps/mainmap.jpg Rand was in Bandor Eban during the events... Probably even Illian(tear?) Look at where Tar Valon is. If rand is that damned powerful.... Though we do know mat is now alot closer to egwene now then Rand was. And Perrin I think is somewhere south east of her... by along distance but enough.. Basically if rand's Effects of being Ta'Varen stretch that far, His 'effects' are touching like, 85% of randland. If he went to tremalking, I wouldn't be suprised if he could influence Seanchan... Though that could explain why at 'ground zero', things are more 'concentrated' and 'off balance'... Still theres that possibility the pattern made Egwene, Ta'varen, if only for a short while to make sure this event went down.
  22. From my understanding, she put them in the storage room, so They'd be safe, while she USED Them in the circle to take care of the seanchan. She pretty much stated bluntly that without a circle, and with that sa'angral she was just barely as powerful as she used to be. She mentioned she had the people in 'her' circle hide in a room, as not to put them in danger. When we see EWgwene go into valkyrie-mode, she forbids the novices to attack the Seanchan, and she also tells Adelorna she will have a novice show her how to remove the a'dam. That would not be possible if the novices had been in a circle with her, as only the one leading the circle can channel anything at all. There was more than one group of novices. One group guarding the stairs, another probably the other set of stairs... probably a few more groups behind egwene, and the group linked to Egwene, whom she said were 'hiding' in a room somewhere. Are = past tense, doesn't rule out the possibility of one 'becoming' ta'varen at least for a short while. ;)
  23. More like it causes insanity unless the flow is controlled by a female.
  24. From my understanding, she put them in the storage room, so They'd be safe, while she USED Them in the circle to take care of the seanchan. She pretty much stated bluntly that without a circle, and with that sa'angral she was just barely as powerful as she used to be. She mentioned she had the people in 'her' circle hide in a room, as not to put them in danger. Thats the same thing as a ta'varen though, its a plot device. Just look at how easilly people just 'fell into' her command. I don't care how good a leader she is, it almost seemed to happen 'to' easilly. That or she REALLY is that good. <_<
  25. I believe Egwene is Ta'varen after this book, not nearly anywhere as powerful as rand/mat/perrin, but some of the events almost 'require' one to be around...
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