1 hour ago, pretty_blossom said:

the girls burning in the circle was unnecessary,

I actually think this part was necessary and important to have at this point in the story. I would have had Nynaeve club Amalisa over the head when she wouldn't let go to skip the weird healing bit, but overall I thought it was good they depicted burning out.

Many have complained even in this thread about female Aes Sedai and channeling being too powerful in the show. Showing people burning out introduces the stakes and consequences of channeling, something the books explain through internal thoughts of fearing it happening, but this was a way to 'show, not tell' the concept.

This concept of burning yourself out needed to be introduced at this point because in the storyline Egwene and Nynaeve (and Elayne) are about to start their Tower training, probably in the very next episode. This sets a lot of the stakes in that plotline around the danger while you learn to channel.

I haven't posted on the last few episode threads because generally I like the show, but have found this Dragonmount forum to have gotten pretty negative and hostile in some ways that made me feel unwelcome here generally, so I've been talking offline with other book reader friends instead.

But as we are at the end of the season I thought I'd try a post again.

AoL scene 

I LOVED the Age of Legends opening, it looked futuristic just like it should and I liked the portrayal of how before the Aes Sedai were men and women working together. The symbolism of LTT wearing black and Latra Posae wearing white with the ancient symbol of Aes Sedai, and making it clear they were friends who disagreed. I actually think they may be setting up some paralleling with Rand and Egwene for the whole series which I think would work well.

Only irk on this scene was I twitched when they called him the Dragon Reborn, I think that was intentional as something to make it simpler for show viewers to understand but I think that underestimates the audience's intelligence.

I do still hope we get the aftermath of LTT madness from the prologue soon to show the stakes, maybe cold open for beginning of season 2 since Rand left at the end of this season out of fear of killing everyone he loves.

Lan and Nynaeve

I have liked them showing more Lan and Nynaeve romance onscreen but have been waiting for Lan to say this speech. Be still my heart - it was wonderful. I liked Nynaeve telling Lan how to find them as a character moment. I hope next season we get a "mashiara" and the signet ring.

Fal Dara/ Tarwins Gap plotlines

I thought putting the Horn here made sense, as well as moving up Fain stealing it. They also seeded the Ingtar betrayal with Fain knowing the password and the cut drawbridge. Fain is pretty good but I can't help but think this would have worked better with Mat and that seems to have been what they were intending having set up some antagonism between him and Mat in episode 1 - can't fault the showrunners though as they got put in a tough spot by the casting change.

I liked them having the channelers defending here, and while I am a little unsure of some of the implications of letting people burn out while in a circle as someone else can force you to burn out, I thought showing burning out in a more visceral way was a good move for the medium. It was also good to introduce it now as they so far had shown no consequences or risks of channeling for women. This will be good setup for our Tower training next season. Maybe having this possible in a circle also helps explain potential plot holes of why you would not just always link all the time.

Egwene healing an almost burned out Nynaeve I was more iffy about though, I think it was unnecessary. I thought Nynaeve might have just stabbed/clubbed over head Amalisa when she couldn't let go.

The Blight and the Eye

Ishamael is great. I liked the change to the confrontation to be something more about tempting Rand, as early series that is the DO plan is to turn him. And tempting him in a way that mirrors the end of the series I think will work well later. I loved Rand choosing to keep Egwene's agency, that is in character. It also shows a nice flip of the cold open with LTT and Latra Posae which I think will parallel the overall Rand and Egwene arc for the whole series of ultimately needing to work together better in this life. They might even make Egwene be Latra Reborn, at least parallel them pretty hard.

I thought the channeling with Rand looked good, this sa'angreal I think is taking place of the fat little man one. And of course book 1 Rand does think he defeated the Dark One.

Unsure about Moiraine stilling/shielding but I'm ok with it if she still takes out Lanfear in epic fashion later, and she doesn't need to channel for that.

Seanchan

Blood and bloody ashes I am hyped. They looked great.

Predictions

For Rand, I'm wondering if he's heading for the Waste. They can have the Lanfear stuff on a solo journey, and just put Callandoor in Rhuidean? Egwene has to get to learn from the Aiel though so maybe we can't speed up quite that much. Alternatively, will he hit up Caemlyn and meet Elayne, then Stone of Tear for Callandoor. Have the Seanchan be landing at Tear, BAM you have books 2 and 3 combined in 1 season.

I think they'll either merge Mesaana and Semi or Graendal and Semi.

Graendal in the books is all about pleasure/hedonism and controls others absolutely with Compulsion to meet her every whim, she also was the psychologist right? I think they could easily combine her with the torture/sadism aspects of Semi, as another of her hedonistic vices, and can just be another means of her breaking/controlling people (or she could do more psychological torture).

On the male side, merge Rahvin and Sammael if you want to keep their plots at all, cut Be'lal and have it be Sammael in Tear at the Stone. And I hope the show makes Taimandred show canon.

On 11/28/2021 at 3:13 PM, Kudzu said:

As long as they do a good job of making it clear it's a character flaw of Rand's, rather than a common thing in world, I think it's fine. I can understand why they might want to steer clear of it, but I do like tension it adds to Rand's relationship with the Maidens.

The way to handle this correctly IMO is to very clearly link it to the fact Lews Therin killed Ilyena as a major source of this character trait for Rand, it becomes more about his personal guilt and struggles over who he is and fear of making the same mistakes. Could be done a number of ways with Lews Therin comments, memory flashbacks at key moments, etc.

VERIN. Of course.

That Moiraine is still alive!! Can you imagine this with Rosamund Pike voice over when Mat reads Thom's letter, or a flashback to her writing it, a couple seasons after she "dies"?!

The Black Ajah Hunters, when they first catch a Black Ajah sister with the Oath Rod (just read this part again, so awesome)

The Cleansing

Rhuidean sequence/flashbacks

Nynaeve healing Logain

I'm on my reread in TPoD now and I know I NEED the Black Ajah Hunters (e.g. Seaine and Pevara). Maybe they'll be different characters in the show but I just got to the part where they first catch a Black sister and it's so awesome! Pevara in particular they should keep as she is an example of an actual non-corrupt Red, and then the evolution of the Red taking Asha'man warders

Episode 5 theory:

In the books, there is a scene after Shadar Logoth where Moiraine explains channeling sickness to Nynaeve that is used to foreshadow to the reader when they see Rand getting sick (and there's Mat dagger sickness thrown in there too, a little like show throwing sus that way). Now, Rand channeled in episode 3 and then Nynaeve had her big moment in ep. 4. I'm thinking they could show Nynaeve having channeling sickness in ep. 5 and also show Rand being sick too as a foreshadowing? Now that they already showed Mat being sick and Thoms suspicion in ep. 4.

3 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Rand "did" heal Bela from a distance.. right? 

 

Or can we finally admit Bela is one of the few cases of creator intervention in the series?

Ahem, don't you mean the Creator healed *themself* ?

2 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

How the doll the little girl gave Mat was named Birgitte and she wants to see the world

Yes I LOVED this a great way to start seeding more lore and also - love Birgitte 

9 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Moiraine left with scar on initial healing

I actually thought maybe this wasn't supposed to be a scar but like new pink skin. But I also had another thought-

The other healing they have shown, with Logain healing the king of Ghealdan and with Moiraine healing others hasn't shown scars. 

But this was a wound from a Trolloc/Fade. Maybe they'll have those be especially nasty and leave a scar - something about thakan'dar blades.

I've been a member of these forums since before the series finished. Reading these threads last night, I was getting pretty frustrated with a bunch of comments making it seem like folks think anyone who actually *liked* the first few episodes must not have really been a true book fan or understand the series, lots of saying they don't believe the showrunner (an avowed fan) read the series at all. So as someone who has read the series several times but like the show so far I am feeling a bit marginalized here. We are a diverse group of fans so we will all have different opinions, don't assume someone disagreeing hasn't read the books or "doesn't get them".

I've also been a bit frustrated with some of the vocal fandom complaining of the show being too "feminist" (along with some of the racist complaints mentioned elsewhere). Made it feel a bit hostile here to me. WoT takes place in a world that has some very matriarchal aspects so why shouldn't the show be showing the Women's Council running things etc - it helps quickly convey some key aspects of this world for a new viewer! Nynaeve tracking Lan happens in the books too, she startles him when Moiraine notices her first! And then I saw people complaining that the show is performing best with women in their 20s as if that's proof it's not performing well with book readers.

So some of the complaints really just start to make me feel like there is a set of fans out there that really want to draw a line around who is really a fan of this series and are excluding a whole bunch of folks, including myself. I don't think that people intend this (I hope), but it is the way some of the discourse here reads.

You can not like the show, and I have some of my own complaints about it, but having a thought before you write up your opinion about how you say it, matters. Basically speak your mind about your own opinion, but don't make assumptions about who has read the books and "understood them" or is a fan. We are all fans or we wouldn't be here on this forum, and people have different interpretations of literature and art - that's what makes a forum fun or else there is no discussion just an echo chamber.

3 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

Episode 1 :
The windows in the ruins/towers shot that makes the landscape look like it's grown-over skyscrapers. 

I *squealed* loudly when they showed this. I want more of these subtle things that hint at the cyclical nature of the Wheel and that this is our world, it is one of the coolest and most unique things about the WoT setting. Gimme a Mercedes hood ornament! It also made me think of what we might get in Rhuidean AoL flashbacks, one of the things I most want to see onscreen.

Also episode 1, very beginning I liked how they depicted the madness by having a guy who is not there. They could do such cool things for depicting LTT later, I hope they do it in a similar way.

Did you guys see the overgrown skyscrapers at about 4:15?! I squealed. I hope they put more of this stuff in as the series goes on, I always thought the cyclical time was one of the cooler and more unique things about WoT as a whole.

I loved this episode, most especially my girl Nynaeve! She is my favorite character in the books and I have loved her portrayal and actress so far on the show. I especially loved all the Nynaeve / Lan interaction in this one. When she's tied to the tree and giving him the death glare, then when she says "it's not a demand, it's a threat" - pure Nynaeve ferocity. ❤ As Lan says in the book, "You are a lioness, Wisdom."

Maybe a different kind of gear, but I want tea sets. There's so much tea drinking there are many possibilities- Sea folk porcelain, Morgase royal tea set, etc. Seanchan kaf set

And I want a great serpent ring

On 10/3/2021 at 2:46 PM, JaimAybara said:

Bayle! Also a good choice. What do you think his accent will be like? 

Ok I will confess: in my head his voice do be the Sea Captain from the Simpsons.

Verin

Tuon

Birgitte

Bayle Domon

I started a reread in the run up to the show and just got to LoC. I read the first Taim/Rand interaction where he takes him to the farm/proto Black Tower, immediately thought how much it feels like setting up Taimandred and how it would be a better reveal at the end. And that this would be the perfect thing to combine in the show. I fired up my 10 year old account to come post this but as I should've suspected you guys have had the same idea ?

Anyway I think this would make a more satisfy ending to these plotlines on the show.

They used portal stones. And you'd use channelers probably, since you'd need channelers to be able to use the portal stones anyway and channelers would probably be the most effective means of capturing these things without killing them - just wrap them up in Air.

No, I'm pretty sure the Seanchan exotics are just that, Seanchan. The grolm were seen in the mirror world because they somehow got from Seanchan to the mainland in that world. It would be pretty hard to find mirror worlds strong enough to be accessed yet have that many major evolutionary differences. Unless the BWB says otherwise, since I have yet to read that.

The BWB says that they were brought via Portal Stone within the first thousand years after the Breaking, and that this is likely how all the Shadowspawn on the Seanchan continent were killed off - they used the creatures from Mirror worlds as weapons against them. It also says that the knowledge of how to use the Portal Stones was later lost (before Luthair arrived).

(Also, I know that the BWB isn't always canon, but as the Seanchan exotics have an entire chapter dedicated to them and we have some Jordan quotes about them too, I'd say on this point it's probably a safe bet).

To'raken = Dragon ?

 

No.  I think BS said we will not see a dragon in this series.  

I think a to'raken is some kind of modern day dino, that the seanchan grabbed from a mirror world.

I would like to ask how the seanchan got to such a mirror world, captured an wild animal and returned?

They used portal stones. And you'd use channelers probably, since you'd need channelers to be able to use the portal stones anyway and channelers would probably be the most effective means of capturing these things without killing them - just wrap them up in Air.

@Majsju who else would be in command of Manetherens troops at Manetherens last stand besides the king of Manetheren. Of course it was Aemon

 

Chain of command. The king orders a number of high ranking officers, who then returns to their troops and orders them.

Comparing with our world, most nations (in Europe) stopped having their kings going into battle in the 17th century.

 

Granted, it is possible that Aemon was stupid enough to forget such a basic thing as The king leads from the rear, but it is in no way confirmed. Of course, given Mats attitude towards nobility, it would be quite hilarious.

I agree with you Majsju - I've always thought that rather than Aemon, Mat's previous life was probably the top General in charge of all of Manetheren's forces, and would have been Aemon's military advisor (just as Davram Bashere was for Tenobia or Gareth Bryne was for Morgase)

I know that for obvious reading smoothness everybody has to speak the same language, but that's something that's always bugged me from the very beginning. How come in this whole world, supposedly as vast as our real world, has there ever been only 1 single language for all the peoples. I mean, come on, even in 1 country alon you have so many dialects, and there would be the same language, albeit slightly different accents, on the whole world of WoT including across one huge ocean?

 

I can't buy it. RJ must have thought about this being illogical given all that he's been thinking through.

Is there any reason to that, 1 language for all, aside of making the story easier to write?

 

 

Besides, I have 1 other thought, who the hell is Jack-o the Shadow which is referenced in the song?

Could it be an important character? Or only a metaphore of death?

I think the reason that there is one language is because in the AoL everyone spoke one language because it seemed to be a completely globalized world at that point - meaning the whole world was essentially one government, one culture, and one language, because they were very technologically advanced. This let them be able to communicate instantaneously across the world (some of the cell-phone like ter'angreal) and they could travel quickly around the world (via flying machines and through actual Traveling). So for the AoL it makes sense to have one language.

So when you think about the Third Age, your starting point is for everyone to have the same language. Now, in the intervening time language would probably drift some, and it seems to have a bit in WoT in the fact that people have developed accents and stuff (the Seanchan, Illianers, Taraboners, etc.). The reason that the Seanchan speak the same common language despite being on another continent is because they started out in Randland and then went over in Hawkwing's time - so they haven't been separated that long - the people they conquered when they arrived in Seanchan may have still been speaking the Old Tongue or another language, but we don't know. For all we know, they might speak something else in Shara - though they do seem to have had contact with merchants through the Sea Folk, so at least some of them must know the common language so they can trade.

EDIT: Ok, I should have read you other guys posts better, because I think you already said the same thing. Sorry.

But I do still wonder if they speak the common language in Shara, and if they do, why? How did it end up evolving from the Old Tongue in the same way there, when they are so decidedly isolationist and xenophobic?

Well, there is fairly strong evidence that Mat is Aemon reborn, the last king of Manatheren.  After all, he began shouting Aemon's battlecry even before they went to Shadar Logoth, and had a dream of leading the King's personal bodyguard into battle against the Trollocs.  So I think he's definitely reborn... I'm just not sure if Aemon was super lucky or not... although his battlecry was "It is time to toss the dice" so it's certainly possible.

Mat could be Aemon reborn without being a hero of the horn - everyone gets reborn over and over in WoT, normal people too. I don't know that he necessarily is Aemon though, because some of it could be just the old blood thing, enhanced by the dagger and later by the finns.