Is there any indication in legend that one of the HotH is spectacularly lucky? We don't know a lot about those. I'm thinking Mat may be one of them reborn (though one we didn't see at Falme).

 

there are many times forsaken think/speak of lews therin as having a lot of luck, or making a lot of luck. to me after awhile I just thought that mat was that luck come back, for rand, meaning of course perrin has a gap to fill but can't recall anything the forsaken may have thought/said in regards to him

 

In Knife of Dreams, Birgitte does mention that they'll need Mat Cauthon's luck for this plan to succeed.  When Elayne asks her what she means, she senses that Birgitte is amused, and asks Elayne if she's ever seen Mat play dice.  Elayne says, of course, that she doesn't frequent places where there is a lot of dicing, and Birgitte comments that Mat Cauthon is the luckiest man she's ever seen.  Elayne dismisses Mat from her mind, but at the end comments that if Mat is the luckiest man Birgitte has ever met, he must be lucky indeed.

 

Now, I know that it's not the best evidence, but I sort of get the feeling from the way that exchange is worded that when Birgitte says that Mat is the luckiest man she has ever met - she means EVER, speaking as a Hero of the Horn.  But, like I said, that's not the best evidence.

That is how I've always interpreted that quote too - and I'd take that to mean that Mat was not a Hero of the Horn before this (though one would think he might be after this life  ;))

5- in the wastes it is obvious that the aiel grow tomatoes (in the old tongue t'mat (sp)), but in that same part there seems to be another veggie beign described but i could never figured out what it was. anyone know?

I think this is what you are talking about, right?

From tSR Ch. 49:

a dish of bright yellow kernels and bits of pulpy red that Aviendha called zemai and t'mat

Like you said t'mat is tomatoes. I think that zemai must be corn - it is described as yellow kernels and is basically the word maize rearranged (and later we see that they make flatbread out of zemai flour - tortillas, anyone?). Also algode is cotton in case anyone hadn't gotten that one yet (it's very similar to the Spanish word for cotton: algodon)

I laid out a theory on my blog in January that the dice are how Mat feels the tugging of the pattern (which Rand and Perrin have also felt before, just in different ways):

http://telaranrhiod-awheeloftimeblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/dice-in-mats-head.html

In The Dragon Reborn, after being healed from the taint of the Shadar Logoth dagger and his extraordinary luck makes its first appearance, Mat begins to feel the sensation of dice tumbling in his head. While he eventually decides the dice mean something important is happening, he often has no clue why they start and stop or what they mean. Many believe that the dice are tied up in his luck, or merely indicate that Mat is coming to an important decision. However, the dice may be more significant. There is evidence that they are no less than the pattern’s tug on Mat’s thread.

 

We know that Mat is ta’veren. Ta’veren are woven more strictly by the Wheel– not only do they pull on the threads around them, but they are kept more strictly to the pattern laid out for them because the Wheel uses them to guide the whole weaving. Now that we have several books of information since the dice in Mat’s head first started, we can figure out what they mean by looking at specifically what events have caused them to stop rolling and then why those events ended up being significant later on.

 

As an illustrative example we will look at some places where the dice stop in ACoS, WH, and CoT and see how these events turned out to be important in later books (for a complete listing of dice events see the page on Mat on http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/).

 

· The dice stop when Mat agrees to move into the Tarasin Palace. We now know that this directly led him to meeting Tuon.

 

· The dice stop when a wall falls on Mat in the chaos of the Seanchan attack. This kept him from leaving the city, again making sure he meets Tuon.

 

· The dice stop when Mat meets Tuon. Obviously because she is the Daughter of the Nine Moons and he will marry her.

 

· The dice stop when Tuon and Mat agree to terms guaranteeing she will not try to escape. This continues to ensure the series of events that lead to the completion of their marriage ceremony.

 

The sequence of events above all led toward Mat marrying Tuon, as well as the course he has taken in getting to Caemlyn. For example, he would have left the city if the wall hadn’t collapsed on him. The events are all ways that his path has been set out before him, the Wheel tugging him into being in the right place at the right time. The dice appear to start when his course begins to be pulled by the pattern, then stop when he’s been tugged into place.

 

Perhaps a better question to ask is, if the dice are the pattern pulling Mat as a ta’veren, how come Perrin and Rand don’t feel the same thing? Well, each sort of does in his own way. Perrin has felt Rand’s pull before, or felt he had to be somewhere, and Rand often has similar hunches. However, Mat’s more acute awareness of the pull may in fact be the interaction between his luck and his ta’veren nature, or it may be a Talent all its own like Min’s viewings. Importantly, Mat starts hearing the dice at the end of tDR, before he has gone through either of the doorways to Finnland, so we know it has nothing to do with the Finns. Likely the exact reason he hears the dice will not be answered until we learn more about the exact cause of Mat’s luck, which will require its own discussion.

Does anyone know if Ilyena could channel, or why she got her third name? I don't suppose it's a very relevant kind of question, but I've wanted to know for a while. :-\

Ilyena could channel.

From Theoryland quote database: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_65hcgdp7gw

Bailey's Crossroads VA 2005 - John Nowacki reporting:

 

Q:  Was Ilyena Aes Sedai?

RJ:  Yes.

But I'm pretty sure we don't know how she got her third name (and probably won't find out in the main series - seems more like something that could get put in the encyclopedia to me)

 

Really though, thanks for pulling that quote out and summarizing its meaning.  Although now I am even more curious as to why Cyndane isn't as powerful.

 

Coz she was burned out and healed by a woman.

I'd say its because she transmigrated into another body, not as strong in the power (see Osangar for example).

I'm going to pull out this quote, since it seems relevant to the discussion that's been going on here:

Matt: Okay, so at the end of that answer he said this...we were asking a specific question about stilling and burning out…he said, “And neither burning out nor stilling affects that except in this lifetime, your current lifetime”. In other words...

Brandon: ...that is consistent...

Matt: ...it doesn’t affect your souls ability, your soul’s connection. So stilling and burning out do not affect the ability to channel, which seems to be integral to the soul as it pertains to a new life. That being said, Aran'gar and Osan'gar, they were transmigrated and we see that they can channel in their new bodies, which makes sense because the ability comes with the soul...

Brandon: ...and because of that if you were male before and reborn (in a female body)...you are channeling the wrong Power.

Matt:  Exactly.  He was transmigrated into a different body, but still channeling the same Power the soul inherits. So, considering Jordan's statement about stilling and burning out not affecting the channeling ability of the new life of a soul, is the same for the new life of a soul transmigrated?

Brandon: I’m going to say that transmigrated...if you were burned out and transmigrated you would still be burned out, is my guess.

Matt: Is that a MAFO question? Or...

Brandon:  That is my guess, and you can MAFO it if you want to send it to me, but that is a “I’m pretty sure” answer.

[Maria clarifies: Yes, you would.  Jim said that “neither burning out or stilling affects that except in this lifetime, your current lifetime.” (DragonCon), but transmigration is not really a different lifetime; more than just the soul moves.  The new person (I’m at a loss for words here) also has the memories of the previous person, and its personality, and such.  So Brandon is correct.]

So if Lanfear was stilled then transmigrated she would still have to be healed (and note that this is different than if she were just naturally reborn - in that case she would not have to be healed).

 

Really though, thanks for pulling that quote out and summarizing its meaning.  Although now I am even more curious as to why Cyndane isn't as powerful.

 

Coz she was burned out and healed by a woman.

I'd say its because she transmigrated into another body, not as strong in the power (see Osangar for example).

 

I wonder about this.

 

The assumption has been there for a long time that you must be of the opposite gender to fully restore someones strength and the only pieces of evidence are Suian and Leanne being weak, and the woman Damer Flynn Healed. Cant remember anything about his patients power level being mentioned though but is been a while.

 

Couple of thoughts that go both ways on this... How do we know anything at all about a man who has been Healed? We never got a PoV from one who was gentled then Healed, nor have we had any sort of hint on Ishamael, Aginor or Balthamel strength-wise in comparison to their post-reincarnation power levels. Given that male and female channelers are similar, but not parralel or opposite in the rules, I wonder if the reduced strength might be something that happens to women only.

 

The other side of it is... how do we know Logain, Moridin, Osan'gar and Aran'gar werent weaker? For all we know they could be slightly weaker and only they could tell. I know nothing has been mentioned in their PoVs, but I dont count that as an outrule.

 

And as for opposite gender healing being necessary: (From RJ's blog 4 October 2005)

- For Alys Kinch, the Healing of stilling must be done by the other gender to be fully effective.  A woman Healing a woman or a man Healing a man results in less than full restoration.  It all ties into that theme I keep harping on.  Men and women have to work together to be their most effective.  And while the weave used by Flinn for Healing is not exactly that used by Nynaeve, either would use the same weave on a man or a woman.

And we should also allow for differences in the methods men and women employ to achieve the same ends.

 

Even if we did say this was the male method of stilling someone--which I find problematic. The female method is an adaption of the shield weave, and the male shield weave is much the same as the female, suggesting their stilling weave should be similar--plus, the Age of Legenders named it severing, which sounds very much like the knife sharp shield weave Nynaeve described, and nothing like what Rand did--but even if we did say this was the male method then it is still not the knife sharp weave that is described to result in severing someone from the Source and still leaving them able to sense it. The glossary is clear. Stilling or gentling is done by an Aes Sedai--which means the knife-sharp shield. Robert Jordan was similarily clear--the clean cut method is what results in someone still being able to sense the source.

 

What Rand did is in no way similar to the Aes Sedai method, and cannot be phrased as a clean cut. A cauterization on the other hand...

I'm not sure if you meant this to be taken this way, but ... when you keep saying that the stilling where the subject can still sense the source must be done by an AS, you make it sound as if you believe that only a woman can do it - which I have to disagree with. I don't think we've ever found a weave in the books that a woman can do but a man cannot (albeit via a different method because they use saidin instead of saidar).

I thought it was commonly accepted that hte seanchan version was the corrupted one, especially since it would be much easier to corrupt something that is being moved that somethign that is sitting still, and its more likely that Pendraeg had very few copies making the job that much easier

Either both the original Seanchan version AND the Kraethorn Cycle (neither of which mentioned Rand bowing to the Crystal Throne) are corrupted, or the version brought with Luthair (which does mention Rand bowing to the Crystal Throne) is corrupted. One or the other of these premises must be true -- unless all three are corrupted, in which case the gloves are off. If one or the other is pure, reason would say that Luthair's version is the corrupted one, especially considering that he was sent at a time when Ishy had the ear of Artur Hawkwing and would be in a prime position to corrupt the prophecies sent with Luthair to the Seanchan.

Likely they are all three slightly corrupted just because of the passage of time, retelling and retranslations. However, the big corruption I think was with Luthair's copy IMO. And I think it was done by Ishamael. Ishamael had been an advisor to Hawkwing and had been part of getting him to send off his sons like this - it would be relatively easy for him to corrupt Luthair's copy. Either that, or Luthair's copy was corrupted later by Emperors/Empresses changing it for propaganda purposes (kneeling to the Crystal Throne and all). That may be the simplest explanation, actually.

EDIT: Fixing grammar fail.

Do Ogier still have one of those talismans of growing for expanding the Ways?  If so why not just make one in the blight to sick that evil fart on the DO

A lot of people suspect that the talisman of growing is one of the ter'angreal Elayne has in Caemlyn - specifically a blue stone root-like carving that Aviendha identifies as being used for growing something and only requires singing the right song to activate (KoD Ch. 15)

Are there female fades?

All Myrddraal are male, and they can't reproduce with humans. (See the Myrddraal page on http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/)

Simple question: Why don't the Forsaken go after Mat and Perrin personally?  We've heard so often how they demolished whole cities in the AOL and are so greatly feared.  Why then don't they just Travel (they know where Mat and Perrin are), fireball away and split?  What are they afraid of?

 

If we look at the following passage from KoD, we can discern three things:

 

1. The Forsaken don't have a clue where Mat and Perrin are

2. The Forsaken can't make much use of their ta'veren nature to find them because the Pattern is all topsy-turvy and difficult to read.

3. The other Forsaken didn't even know what Mat and Perrin looked like before Ishy showed them. Classic failure to share information.

 

KOD, Chapter 3  pp. 148-149 (hardcover)

 

"If you want to kill someone," [Moridin] went on, "kill these two!" suddenly the semblances of two young men in rough country clothes stood in the center of the circle, turning so that everyone could get a good look at their faces... [Moridin continuing] "Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon are ta'veren, easily found. Find them and kill them."

Graendal laughed, a mirthless sound. "Finding ta'veren was never as simple as you made out, and now it's harder than ever. The whole Pattern is in flux, full of shifts and spikes."

"Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon," Semirhage murmured, inspecting the two shapes. "So that is what they look like. Who knows, Moridin. If you had shared this with us before now, they might already have been dead."

Moridin's fist came down hard on the arm of his chair. "Find them! Make doubly sure that your followers know their faces. Find Aybara and Cauthon and kill them...[and so on]

The "make sure your followers know their faces" part and Mat finding the portraits in TGS tells us that the Forsaken, unable to find them directly due to the above-mentioned problems, are resorting to having their followers find Mat and Perrin for them rather than waste the time trying to guess where in the Light they might be. If a Darkfriend reported back to them once positive ID was made instead of trying to take them in person, I'd assume that one of the Forsaken might try to go after them directly.

I agree that they probably just didn't know what they looked like. For one thing, I think a lot of the Forsaken have underestimated the other two ta'veren anyway, and hadn't gone to the trouble of trying to find out what they looked like.

Anyone else notice Semirhage's comment in that passage? I think that if she'd known what Mat looked like she definitely would not have just left him alone in Ebou Dar - they were even living under the same roof for a while! Actually, I doubt she knew that his name was Mat Cauthon while they were both in Ebou Dar (all the Seanchan called him Tylin's Toy and he probably seemed inconsequential) but if she'd known what Mat looked like she would have realized that this was one of the ta'veren right there within arm's reach. She really would have no excuse at all for not trying to kill him if she'd known who he was (and no reason to let him live, honestly) so I think she simply must not have been aware of who he really was. In fact, if she had killed him it would have saved her a lot of trouble because I have a feeling his kidnapping of Tuon messed with her plans a bit.

Could be.

 

On another subject.. Has the cleansing of saidin improved the Ways, and got rid of Machin Shin?

 

I would doubt it, and here's why: any insanity men already had as an effect of the taint stayed - they just stopped getting worse. So I think that in the same way, the effects of the taint on the Ways probably wouldn't get better, they just won't get worse. (though the Ways could still get worse from Fain's influence)

I wonder why the DO did that, anyway? Presumably it was so Rand would be corrupted by it or use it to kill semi and break his silly no-violence-against-women thing, but wouldn't just letting semi control him and thus serve the DO hav been smarter?

 

Another thing, Rand though about how he could resist the TP because he had the CK, now that he blew up the CK, will he succumb to the TP? Will his struggle to fight the urge play a part in the next book?

What you said above is actually the big reason why I think that Rand may have been able to access the TP without the DO's consent through his connection with Moridin. Brandon has very vaguely implied that there could be a way to use the TP without the DO's permission (his use of the word generally), but we can't take that as a confirm/deny because of what he says about Semi - he's kind of teasing us with both answers there - so it also could have been the DO trying to corrupt Rand like you said.

From the Theoryland quote database: http://docs.google.com/View?docID=dcjspjqg_59g3crchdk&revision=_latest

Matt: There was some confusion about Rand and the Dark One’s permission, so for clarification’s sake, did Rand have the Dark One’s permission to use the True Power?

Brandon: I have not answered that. If anyone says that I have, I have not. What I have said specifically is, this is recording3: generally one must have the Dark One’s permission to use the True Power. Semirhage believed that the Dark One had betrayed her by letting Rand use it.  It is good that you have asked this so I can make sure on the record that is the answer I have given.

As for the CK and the temptation of the TP, I could definitely see that coming up as an issue in the next book as it's supposed to be extremely addictive.

I'd like to know if anyone knows what the relationship with LTT & Ishy/Moridin is?

I had a thought that maybe Ishy was LTT's brother.

Does anyone knows?

I didn't think they were related in any way.

 

"Luke, I ...  AM ... YOUR ... COUSIN FIRST REMOVED ON YOUR MOTHER's SIDE"

 

There is a link between them I'm just wondering what that link is....besides the Great Lord.

 

I don't think they even really knew each other (or at least knew each other well, they would at least have heard of each other because they were both famous) before Ishamael proclaimed himself for the Shadow. Ishamael was a philosopher in the AoL, while Lews Therin was leader of the AS. I don't think they really were around each other all that much, and if they were it has never been mentioned. The only link that has been mentioned is the fact that their two souls keep getting reborn to battle it out. So I think they only really knew each other as adversaries.

If you want a Forsaken that's got a history with Lews Therin (other than Lanfear of course) you should look at Demandred. They were allies before Demandred turned out of jealousy/hatred of Lews Therin - this indicates they must have known each other well indeed. Sammael too, since he also seemed to be jealous of Lews Therin.

Wow, that's a clever question. Looks quite unlikely that none of the sisters taken had a warder left behind indeed.

 

Of course, there are several reasons why it may not work:

 

1) Warders are not very likely to be left behind. If they are there, they probably die before letting their sister be taken.

 

2) Those with their sisters taken are not likely to stay in the tower. Warders don't tend to think (too much) when their lady is taken, they follow.

 

3) Everyone forgot about it (well, Egwene, at least), then it was too late.

 

4) Maybe it's not so easy to take those to'raken off the sky when they don't fly low.

 

5) More likely for warderless sisters to be taken.

 

6) A limited number of sisters were taken at all.

 

7) Too scared to try and take them back? By the way, they can't use the power as weapon.

I think that all of the above are valid, just wanted to add one more reason:

Most of the AS in the Tower didn't know how to Travel - just Elaida (captured), Beonin, and Egwene. By the time everyone would share the weaves - after Tower reunification all that - it's already been a couple days so the captured sisters are probably far enough away that their warders (if still alive and not already following) wouldn't be able to know specifically where they were, just the general direction.

Has anyone ever asked if the Crystal Throne was a compulsion terangreal?  Based on hints that have been dropped here and there, about the overwhelmingly commanding presence of the Empress, and based on the sheer level of almost blind obediance the Empress is able to command, it would not be suprising to find that the Crystal Throne itself was putting the mojo on people.

 

Just curious if this has ever been explored.

sorry if this has been answered yet but i recall the Crystal Throne was said to inspire awe and fear of the person that was sitting on it i always pictured like the weave Taim uses to create a menacing aura around himself when rand and him go to confront Caddy (forget what book that was) but magnified

Yes.  The description of the Crystal Throne is that it inspires awe in those who approach.  It does NOT require channelling to do so. 

 

The Chair of Remorse in the White Tower does require channelling.  I don't have WH with me, but from the Encyclopaedia-wot, "Channeling into the hole causes one sitting on the Chair to relive the consequences of ones crimes."

Some have theorized that the red crystal chair from Rhuidean is another ter'angreal that is a twin of the Crystal Throne, but this has never been confirmed.

Quick question: I just started my first reread, and I've come to the part where Rand fights Aginor.

What happens here? What's the rope holding Aginor? How come Rand gets teleportet? Does he use the One Power? If so, why can't he see any weaves?

I just don't get this sene at all.

If you are referring to the "glowing white rope," that is Rand seeing Aginor draw on the pool of saidin that is tEotW. If you're talking about the "black cords" - that's probably Aginor's connection to the DO that filters the taint of saidin for him. Rand gets teleported because he wanted to be somewhere else really bad - so he unknowingly uses the One Power to Travel to Tarwin's Gap. In fact, in case it's not clear, he already unknowingly used the One Power earlier in the book when he helps Bela to keep going through the night (because Egwene's riding her), when he knocks a trolloc off of Domon's boat when they escape Shadar Logoth, and when he causes the lightning strike to escape Darkfriends in one of the villages. The reason he can't see the weaves is because it takes a little time as a channeler before you can see the weaves. At this point, where he is channeling unintentionally and doesn't know what he is doing, Rand is essentially a wilder and cannot see the weaves - note that neither can Nynaeve yet at this point in the story, even though she has unknowingly used the One Power to Heal some people.

This was in another thread but my question was off topic so I'll post it here.  I apologize if this has been brought up somewhere else.

 

Could Rand be the "strongest" male channeler ever(to the best of our knowledge)?

 

Quote from: TGS, Veins of Gold

He closed his eyes, drawing in more and more power, feeling as he had only twice before. Once when he had cleansed saidin. Once when he had created this mountain.

"Then he drew in more."

He knew that much power would destroy him. He had stopped caring.

 

This "did not" kill him but was even more than LTT drew in the creation of Dragonmount(the other Dragonmount) which killed LTT.  

 

Could it be possible that Rand just grew?  That his maximum amount of power he could hold was increased?

 

When creating Dragonmount, LTT channeled far more than he could unaided. That's what burned him. Rand had the immense power of the CK at his disposal, so it wasn't all that exceptionnal to channel as much as LLT had when creating Dragonmount.

 

LTT and Rand are the same person, so I expect they have the same level. The same as Ishamael.

I think the question is, if the Choeden Kal is a sa'angreal, and sa'angreal prevent you from drawing too much, HOW was Rand even able to draw more, since one would think he drew as much as the Choeden Kal even could when he cleansed saidin? It should be impossible to draw more than the max capacity of a sa'angreal, yet Rand did. It could be that Rand has grown in strength since cleansing saidin?

Note that the poor Fade can't shut his eyes to cut off the glare because he doesn't have eyelids, in fact he doesn't have eyes.

It doesn't matter why Fain did it, it's still torture - some creatyre is chained down within the glare of brights lights.

Classic technique.

 

Well, I didn't say he wasn't being tortured (I think the passage makes it pretty obvious he is), just that you'd have to do the light thing anyway to keep a Fade from escaping.

the trollocs and myrdraal helping  mordeth was because he tortured the one myrdraal until it agreed to help him

The only instance of Fain tortureing a Myrhdral was in the Great Hunt, fleeing from Fal Dara with the Horn, to assert his authority over both the Darkfriends and the Trollocs with him. Is there any actual Fain PoV of that ?

 

EDIT: I'vejust reread Fain's PoV at the end of Book 4. Yes there's a Myrhdralk with him, not too happy, but I don't see anything implying Fain tortured him.

 

TSR

The Myrddraal began to sweat as Fain talked about agreements and accords - he'd tied it spread-eagled in a pool of light.

LoC Chapter 28:

" A rustling caught his ear, and he glanced toward where the Myrddraal sat waiting his pleasure on the far

side of the room. It did not try to meet his gaze; he had broken it of that long since.

He tried to return to his contemplation of the blade, to the perfect beauty of perfect death, the beauty of

what Aridhol had been and would be again, but the Myrddraal had broken his concentration. Spoiled it. He very

nearly went over and killed the thing. Halfmen took a long time to die; how long if he used the dagger? As if

sensing his thoughts, it stirred again. No, it could be useful still."

 

You don't think torture is implied at the sweating?

He must have used kindness and patience to break the Fade of trying to meet his gaze?

And chaining something spreadeagled tight in a pool of bright light is gentle treatment? 

 

Yeah, I think there's pretty clearly been some torture going on. But the pool of bright light is probably there because otherwise the Myrddraal could use a shadow to slip away all freaky like they do. ( Try not to be blown away by the eloquence in that statement, haha  ::) )

It transforms a few others too.

Richard Rahl = Richard Rahl

Amrylin = Mother Confessor

Tam = Kahlan Amnell

 

Others I've found (I'm using weird spacing so they'll actually show up):

D_ark O_ne = Emperor Jagang

A_es S_edai = Confessors

W_oT = SoT

O_ne P_ower = Sword of Truth

E_layne = Kahlan Amnell

We have a dozen AoL channelers including the AS-in-Chief, LTT himself.

No mention of any such notation, which by analogy with professional musicians, they would read and write at sight.  

If it had ever existed.

We have an entire body of women who are dedicated to remembering whatever scraps they can of OP.

Their knowledge is enough to tell them that there are lost Talents like Travelling, etc.

Again there's not even a hazy memory that some form of notation existed.

Also, no attempts to even create such a secret code intra-ajah.

Post-Breaking, they didn't lose written language and some records have come down.

Again no mention that any OP-related notation existed.

Ergo it didn't exist.

 

 

Could they perhaps have had some sort of visual recording devices and documented that way? Like watching a DVD where someone demonstrates weaves. Then people wouldn't have the means to view said visual records anymore because the technology is gone - it would be like someone in a medieval society discovering a DVD - they'd have no way to watch it, hence no records left. It seems like the kind of technology they'd be capable of, given the airplane-like devices and that ter'angreal that stores thousands of books worth of info (like an E-Reader).

This is absolutely pure speculation of course, without any proof whatsoever.

[i realize now, after listening to Brandon’s answer that I was making an assumption about the One Power too, that it is separate from the Creator because of what we have been given in the books and the BWB, but I should have asked [b]if instead the One Power is the essence of the Creator[/b]…]

 

Matt: Ok. So, obviously a channeler uses the True Power. We’ve discussed this before they weave the True Power just as they weave the One Power...

 

Brandon: ...they do and you don’t have to learn, and so that should tell you that the weaves are similar if not identical to the One Power. There are certain things the True Power can do that are different and it goes about things in different ways, but you don’t have to relearn everything.

(my emphasis)

 

We've seen many times in the text, and from several different PoV's, that the male and female ways of creating any weave with the OP are quite different.  Dealing with fire, and traveling are just two examples.  Those differences are attributable to the differences between males and females of course. 

 

But in the quote, Brandon seems to be saying that functionally the OP and the TP are close enough that the user does not need to relearn how to create a certain weave when switching from OP to TP. 

 

So whether or not the OP is the essence of the Creator (if that had been asked im sure it would have been RAFO'd anyway) this connection between OP and TP has some disturbing implications for the nature of the OP.  Anyone have any insights into this?

 

 

 

This has bothered me for some time.  Every post I read about how men and women are different when channeling refers to the way men and women travel as being different.  I believe, and think am strongly supported by the books, that this is false.  When Egwene goes to Rand and asks him how he Travels, he tells her he connects two points and then burrows through them.  Egwene is scared by this and thinks it's dangerous.  She then creates a replica of her tent using spirt to enter the Dream World and travel to Salidar.  She meets Moghedien and tells her how Rand told her how to Travel, Moghedien says that's how men Travel and then discribes what Egwene did to enter the Dream World as how a women Travels.  Egwene creates a Gateway to the Waste and then tells Moghedien to never think that she might not already know how to do something and that she will punish her severly if she ever catches her lying to her again.  This implies that a women Travels the same way as a man, anyway that the concept is the same.  That may not mean that the weave is exactly the same, and we have learned that the weave for something may differ from women to women.  For instance we know that Aviendha created a Gateway when fleeing from Rand, but cannot remember how she did it.  She has difficulty creating one with the weave shown to her by Egwene.  If you think about it the principles for doing something with the power would be the same, but the way you put it together may differ.  To create a flame you would use fire whether man or women.

First, we've seen both Rand and Egwene make gateways, and the descriptions are different. Second, I think you are misinterpreting what Egwene meant. She says, "Never be too sure I don't already know the answer...Remember. Lie to me once." (LoC Ch. 37) She was not saying that what Moghedien told her was wrong. She was instead threatening Moghedien by saying, oh look, I already knew how to do that, I was just testing you, and warning her for the future in order to establish her authority over Moghedien and to frighten the woman into always telling her the truth. She did this just to get Moghedien to be easier to handle in the future, not because Moghedien actually told her something incorrect.

 

Show me where it is described differently.

Egwene describes making two places similar (LoC Ch. 34) "She had just created a place where the interior of her tent was so similar to its reflection in Tel'aran'rhiod that there was no difference at all right there".

Rand's conversation with Egwene about what he does(LoC Ch. 27):

First Egwene suggests making two places similar, which she ends up trying later in chapter 34. Rand's response: "That sounds like changing the weave of the Pattern. I think it would tear me apart if I so much as tried. I bore a hole."

The differences in the two methods make sense with the differences in the way saidar and saidin work - saidar must be gently guided, you have to surrender to it and just let it happen (therefore making a similarity), whereas saidin has to be seized and forced rather violently in a constant struggle (boring a hole).

[i realize now, after listening to Brandon’s answer that I was making an assumption about the One Power too, that it is separate from the Creator because of what we have been given in the books and the BWB, but I should have asked [b]if instead the One Power is the essence of the Creator[/b]…]

 

Matt: Ok. So, obviously a channeler uses the True Power. We’ve discussed this before they weave the True Power just as they weave the One Power...

 

Brandon: ...they do and you don’t have to learn, and so that should tell you that the weaves are similar if not identical to the One Power. There are certain things the True Power can do that are different and it goes about things in different ways, but you don’t have to relearn everything.

(my emphasis)

 

We've seen many times in the text, and from several different PoV's, that the male and female ways of creating any weave with the OP are quite different.  Dealing with fire, and traveling are just two examples.  Those differences are attributable to the differences between males and females of course. 

 

But in the quote, Brandon seems to be saying that functionally the OP and the TP are close enough that the user does not need to relearn how to create a certain weave when switching from OP to TP. 

 

So whether or not the OP is the essence of the Creator (if that had been asked im sure it would have been RAFO'd anyway) this connection between OP and TP has some disturbing implications for the nature of the OP.  Anyone have any insights into this?

 

 

 

This has bothered me for some time.  Every post I read about how men and women are different when channeling refers to the way men and women travel as being different.  I believe, and think am strongly supported by the books, that this is false.  When Egwene goes to Rand and asks him how he Travels, he tells her he connects two points and then burrows through them.  Egwene is scared by this and thinks it's dangerous.  She then creates a replica of her tent using spirt to enter the Dream World and travel to Salidar.  She meets Moghedien and tells her how Rand told her how to Travel, Moghedien says that's how men Travel and then discribes what Egwene did to enter the Dream World as how a women Travels.  Egwene creates a Gateway to the Waste and then tells Moghedien to never think that she might not already know how to do something and that she will punish her severly if she ever catches her lying to her again.  This implies that a women Travels the same way as a man, anyway that the concept is the same.  That may not mean that the weave is exactly the same, and we have learned that the weave for something may differ from women to women.  For instance we know that Aviendha created a Gateway when fleeing from Rand, but cannot remember how she did it.  She has difficulty creating one with the weave shown to her by Egwene.  If you think about it the principles for doing something with the power would be the same, but the way you put it together may differ.  To create a flame you would use fire whether man or women.

First, we've seen both Rand and Egwene make gateways, and the descriptions are different. Second, I think you are misinterpreting what Egwene meant. She says, "Never be too sure I don't already know the answer...Remember. Lie to me once." (LoC Ch. 37) She was not saying that what Moghedien told her was wrong. She was instead threatening Moghedien by saying, oh look, I already knew how to do that, I was just testing you, and warning her for the future in order to establish her authority over Moghedien and to frighten the woman into always telling her the truth. She did this just to get Moghedien to be easier to handle in the future, not because Moghedien actually told her something incorrect.

In a voluntary circle, can one party (not the leader) unilaterally exit without permission from the person controlling flows?

No. This is made clear several times.

 

References please?

LoC Ch. 14

"Reflexively Nynaeve tried to pull back from the link, and nothing happened. Until Anaiya broke the circle she was part of it, and that was that."

There are no references to a lake either.

 

 

You're right about there being no textual references. BUT...

From the Q&A part C Luckers posted http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,50707.0.html:

18. Question What’s up with Rand’s sword? Was it LTT’s?

 

18. Answer: There are some really good theories out there on the message boards and I don’t have anything to add on this.  [Luckers: I’m not sure if this following sentence means kfc asked a follow up question about Brandon, or whether he found this elsewhere—like on a board. I think he asked Brandon] ---I followed up on where it was found, basically ‘In water, under a statue, not near Falme’

So BS has given us a hint to where it was found.

I don't know why I thought it was found in a lake, but I do remember reading some discussion about BS supposedly confirming that it was found in that stedding Perrin and Egwene found in TEoTW, near Hawkwing's statue. Am I making a fool of myself here?

I hadn't read confirmation of this - the only quote I've seen is the one I put above - but it sounds like a really good theory to me.