The ‘On Your Knees’ from Moiraine was such a horrible gif, tumblr, Twitter moment. It has specifically been put in there to be forced into a meme and go viral. 
 

Horrifically cringeworthy. 

I felt the cold opening was ok but even in the moment I couldn’t help but be baffled about why she got off on a punt and her dad just stiff around. He had nothing to stay for and wanted his daughter to survive and thrive. She has to get through Tear when the local population know who she is, that she can channel and hate channellers. At least lead her to the edge of the land…

The AS politics came across like scheming teenagers, rather than intelligent adults. 
 

The wayhate being lowered means that there has to be a lot of DF channellers / forsaken out and about just opening doors for people at the minute. Seems like a change that can’t possibly add anything but does make plot holes easier to appear. 
 

The central characters being reduced to lying around and having zero impact on the story, again, is annoying. 
 

Under no circumstances can they horcrux the goddam DR. 
 

Loial *shrug*
 

What was the point of the Oath Rod? If an AS cannot tell a lie, then her just stating the same thing without an Oath Rod amounts to the same result. Also, isn’t the Oath Rod not allowed to be use for punishments?

Moiraine using multiple pet names for Siuan during her PUBLIC punishment makes it ridiculously obvious that this obvious reward (not punishment) is exactly what it is. 
 

The lead Sitter of the Blues reminded me so much of Sherlocks brother from the BBC series. 

29 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

I don't think it's necessarily a problem that Moraine didn't know Nynaeve could channel.  It's something women can sense but it's also something that can be overlooked.  In the books Moraine is not injured after Shadar Logoth and when Nynaeve creeps up on them Moraine doesn't notice for a while before suddenly realizing.  

Combine that with her dismissing Nynaeve for her age right away and maybe she just never bothered to check.  Kind of like hearing a noise outside but being so sure it's just the dog that you don't look out the window.

"I have people watching for their arrival." ("To the white tower since they're supposed to stay at the inn until I call for them.")  Just like last episode with telling Nynaeve "When I find them I will take you to them" despite already knowing where two of them were.

 

In the scenario, I’ve always wondered what would happen to an AS. Moiraine tells Nynaeve that she will take Nynaeve to them once she finds them. 
 

What would actually happen to Moiraine if she just never bothered taking Nynaeve to them?

Called Perrin fancying Egwene immediately on episode one and that causing the problems in the marriage. Was told that I was completely wrong on this forum, despite the obvious way it was directed. 

1 hour ago, Masha said:

I think Aran'gar has to be there, perhaps revised to avoid cringy parts. Because him infiltrating Aes Sedai, manipulating and murdering them and them being completely unable to recognize what is happening and being left helpless due to them being hidebound, their rigidity of belief and inability to think beyond gender bound roles of One Power is a great storyline. And then Aran'gar attacking and killing one of Rand's Asha'man is such a shock to the system and change of paradigm... I'd hate to lose it.

I don’t think they can possibly have the stories only representation of a transgender (I know it isn’t but it’s the closest in the story) person be evil and a serial killer, it just will not sit well in the modern world. 

3 minutes ago, Frenata said:

 

It's funny how much different individuals diverge. My relation to WoTPrime is so far "enjoyed a somewhat bumpy first season, excited for the future", while I thought Jackson's Hobbit movies were so bad that they actually made me enjoy the excellent LotR movies less.

 

And had I been involved in a forum at the time, I would have been as hyperbolic against Ender as the most passionate people here are about WoTPrime. ?

 

It's legitimate to check-out early, I might be inclined to do so if I felt the way some do, although even subverted nostalgia has a way of dragging you back in.

 

 

Come now, you have to give the season room to grow? I agree that 4 was the strongest to date, but I expect 6 and 8 will end up better. Unless your scale "goes to 11"?

Episode 4 was the best of an average bunch of episodes. If this series is being compared against peak tv then it doesn’t hold a candle to it at the moment. 
 

I’m enjoying it enough but there are some pretty significant issues in writing, world building, sets, cgi, dialogue, making the world feel real, pacing etc. All of this together, whilst not to say someone shouldn’t enjoy the series, does massively mark it down against peak tv, so agreed, no chance there has been a 10/10 episode objectively.

Just now, Windigo said:

Forget family, that is why I stopped watching it. 

One of the best aspects of the later seasons was the removal of nearly all the pointless nudity from the early seasons. 

5 minutes ago, AdamA said:

I was actually relieved at the funeral scene. It felt kind of pointless because the season is almost over and I didn't care about this character since I knew he was a redshirt as soon as he showed up, but people were really up in arms in the trailer at Lan showing grief. The explanation that it isn't actually his grief, but part of a ceremony where he is supposed to show grief on behalf of everyone else works fine for me. You don't get an exemption to sit on the sideline just because you're some super special snowflake borderlander who doesn't experience pain. This actually felt like less of a betrayal of Lan as a character. Lan does his duty, even when that duty is to cry in public.

 

That doesn't seem like a universal interpretation, though. A lot of people here seem to have taken the chest beating as Lan showing his own emotions. I took it as a ceremony where whoever was placed in that position would have had to do the same thing. It even seemed like the room might have been a ter'angreal to channel everyone else's feelings into him. As long as they're aping other IP casting Kerene's ring into the fiery chasm of Fount Doom, it was uncomfortably close to Holy Wayne's "let me take it from you" magic hugs from The Leftovers, though.

They could’ve just any other Warder if they wanted a designated screamer. Then they could’ve shown some close up shots of Lan fighting his emotion, rather than just screaming it out into the world. 

27 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Nynaeve may be breaking down his emotional walls already.   Some of what Moiraine says and does can be seen as her realizing that is happening.

 

 

The problem with that is that we haven’t been shown anything of Lan being stoic, emotionally stunted etc. He has pretty much been overtly emotional right from day one, including laughing and joking right through to screaming like something out of Meatloaf music video. 
 

I’m fine with things being brought forward, as the books can drag, but character development needs to have a basis to start from. The character as is, is completely alien to the book chapter. 
 

The rest have been sped along but they are at least recognisable as characters from the book. 

28 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I know I am in the minority, but I actually enjoyed the funeral scene at the end. I like the beating of the breast and the ceremonial rending of garments as an expression of grief. I didn't get any sense that Lan was weak in that moment - he was doing his duty. Leading a ceremony, the purpose of which was for him to express the grief and pain of all the people present in the room.

 

It’s not about weakness for me, it’s that the way his character is described is that he cannot express/feel emotion because of the trauma of his life and his sense of duty to Moiraine outweighing all else. This makes Nynaeve breaking down his emotional walls so much more impactful, which is now lost because he is willing to show so much emotion in public. 
 

I understand that this is an adaptation, so some liberties will be taken, but if nobody had used his name in this series, would you even be aware that this character should be Lan?

13 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

That was part of the funeral tradition. Lan was the "lead mourner". He expressed everyone's emotion at once. The shirt rip might have been a symbolic gesture to show his and everyone else's grief. 

 

Edit. I didn't manage to see his nipples. Maybe I should go through it frame by frame but tbh I don't care. Humans have nipples.

I’m not interested in him being the lead mourner. It is just another hit in the difference between book and tv Lan, which completely negates Nynaeve being the one to break his emotional block n

Lan screaming, tearing his shirt open to show his nipples and just generally being a 24/7 emotional wreck is a pretty big problem and ruins the point of Nynaeve being the one to finally pull down the walls he has built following the trauma of losing an entire nation. 
 

The other problem with Lan, as mentioned by someone else, is that he is possibly the single most incompetent character in the whole show up to now. I have zero faith in show Lan being able to hold off Trolloc hoards or train Rand to be a blademaster. 

Loial being relatively short was off putting, as whilst I understand they want to use practical effects, you can easily use camera angles ala Hagrid and Gandalf to easily make someone tower over regular sized people. 
 

Lan kneeling next to Moiraine was a really odd choice of set up, as he was a good foot away from her and looking somewhere else. The scene was another one meant to imply a romantic relationship I think for non-book readers. 
 

Lan screaming, tearing his shirt open to show his nipples and just generally being a 24/7 emotional wreck is a pretty big problem and ruins the point of Nynaeve being the one to finally pull down the walls he has built following the trauma of losing an entire nation. 
 

The other problem with Lan, as mentioned by someone else, is that he is possibly the single most incompetent character in the whole show up to now. I have zero faith in show Lan being able to hold off Trolloc hoards or train Rand to be a blademaster. 
 

Alanna and Moiraine lying on the bed like teenagers gossiping was really odd. The dialogue was fine but the framing of them lying on the bed like at a sleepover was really odd and doesn’t particularly hold up on viewing. 
 

The implication that if Stepin was bonded to Alanna he would have to become bisexual. Now that was baffling. To then kill him immediately after, made it look like his choice was death over being forced to have sex with one. Very odd.
 

Logain laughing was great and I think that will be called back to as him noticing Rand as a TV, which they may retcon as to why he reacted in such a way to Nynaeve i.e she is now TV. 
 

Liandrin sullying herself by walking in the Men’s/warders quarters isn’t something I felt was in character. 
 

Padan Fain hanging around is a great touch and should make his descent into whatever the hell he becomes even more impactful. 
 

So confused as to why Valda thought Egwene could channel, why he didn’t think a channeler would be able to remove the bonds of Perrin and why he wouldn’t have physical back up. 
 

It did look like the fireball melted when it hit Valda and I could really do without him having a fox head medallion or similar. I think they may be moving in that direction as they can then lean heavily into the ‘he’s a hypocrite, like all fascists, because he is using a ter’angreal’ but it ruins Mat’s journey to get his. 
 

The episode was pretty weak for me and even without book knowledge, felt that a lot of the moving parts just didn’t stack up. 
 

The Forsaken idols were a nice touch and those were some huge boobs on the Grandeal one ?

Anybody worked out what Moiraine was looking at behind the gold wall ornament?

7 hours ago, rowdie said:

I enjoyed the episode.   I'm not sure why they chose to deviate from the book so much?   ?  I absolutely love the special effects.   I wish they would incorporate a map somehow.  I don't believe it will have the success as G.O.T. or Lord of the Rings movies.  

 

What's wrong with Liandrans head?  Is that just how her face is really shaped or are they making it look ageless somehow.  

It’s the shape of the actresses face. It’s very off putting if I’m honest but not going to criticise someone for having their own face. 

2 minutes ago, divica said:

If the warder retires to someone's tent, there is a single bed and she has an intimate talk with that someone then yes.

 

If the idea wasn't to make you assume that the warder is going to have sex then don't show several warders retiring to have sex and your female warder doing the same at the same time...

 

It is a matter of knowing how to write a scene...

I know I’m coming into this argument late but I would 100% say the intention from the writers, with that scene, was for non-readers to assume that Moiraine and Lan are about to have sex. 
 

It’s all geared up to be a shock when he starts dating Nynaeve.

The camera lingers on the green coming over to take her warder. Then a coy discussion about maintaining energy and then the Lan immediately stating that he is going to see Moiraine, with knowing looks from the other warder and Nynaeve looking annoyed. 

Really enjoyed the episode. Logain was fantastic right the way through and I really enjoyed the little smiles before he broke the shield. It was a great way of showing that he was playing with the AS and using just enough strength against the shield to tire them but not break himself out too early. 
 

The representation of the taint was great, especially the two whispering taint ghosts on his shoulders. 
 

I did find the lack of linking a bit odd, especially when they did it at the end. 
 

The leaving of the scar didn’t sit well with me as the original healing method was either healed or not healed, so didn’t leave scars. 
 

I don’t think Logain was overawed by Nynaeve’s power display, I think it was Nynaeve being a TV. It’s similar to how Nicola describes seeing a TV, like a blinding light. No problem if they do make Nynaeve an equal to the more powerful men but they then need to allow the men to link as well. 
 

The Reds being described as essentially AS police for all channellers, including other AS, was a great touch and sets up the storyline of them taking over the tower via a military coup. 
 

The fight choreography continues to be wonky but that’s a limit of tv, so no huge gripe in reality. Struggling to see the full £10m an episode budget but I can imagine that Covid swallowed a lot of the budget up sadly. 
 

Alanna was alluring, sexy, playful, emotional and a devastating fighter, just like imagined her. 
 

I did want the Warder to go more beseker and I didn’t really like that the AS shield could be broken by a physical axe. 
 

Definitely more invested in the series now. 

Really enjoyed reading that, thanks for posting. 
 

I appreciated the explanation about the VFX and bringing together ensembles, outside of the lead characters is always more difficult than people think. 

2 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

I'm fine with the casting but that said... what kind of long ass generations is that?

Agreed. Since I’ve been born there have already been Millenials, Generation X and Generation Z. That’s within 30 years!

There have probably been close to 100 generations in a 2,000 year period. Considering intermingling and cross contamination of close-ish family relations in a very small, very remote village, the likelihood is that the Two Rivers at least would have homogenised by this point. 

5 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

While I disliked what they did with Mat's family, it was one of the least bothersome changes. I thought Barney Harris was one of the better-cast out of the main parts, along with Pike. At least his character felt believable to me, unlike Rand and Perrin's wooden walkthroughs.

 

Not sure how a replacement of one of the main protagonists is going fare...do we know who's the new actor, if season 2 is already being filmed? 

 

 

I definitely thought he was the best actor of the lot. He’s being replaced by Donal Finn, who looks a bit more like Rand’s actor. 
 

Agreed on Rand and Perrin being by far the two weakest actors. Rand is very breathy when he talks and Perrin seems to have no ability to talk like a human being. 

8 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

I don't actually get where they're going with Mat. With his and Perrin's changed backstories in seems more likely that Mat would want to return to the Two Rivers for his sisters sake whilst Perrin now has a very good reason to move on and not return.

 

So now I'm wondering how they write themselves out of the corner they put themselves in, because it's kind of hard to believe that this Mat wouldn't return for his sisters if the Two Rivers was in danger.

That is the confusion caused by the change really. 
 

The only way around it is if his dad still walks to Tar Valon and due to the attack has turned his life around. Explains how well his mum and sisters are doing and saying that Mat deserves a chance to explore the world. 
 

or some such similar nonsense. 

Main things to remove for me are

Bowl of Winds

Rand and the Sea Folk

Tylin raping Mat

the length of the Faile kidnap

a lot of the breaking of the tower 

the circus

I would prefer Mat not to end up with Tuon, as it still didn’t feel earned in the books 

Forsaken constantly being resurrected, just leave it at Moridin.

Anything to do with succession and Morgase. For the tv show, you may as well just actually kill Morgase. 
 

For the sake of a tv series a lot of the superfluous stuff, outside of Rand’s journey specifically will likely have to be cut. Once he is the dragon, it should be a 50% focus on him with 20% each on Mat and Perrin and 10% on Egwene. 

I don’t know why I had these pictures in my head but when reading I had the general areas pictured more as:

Andor - Northern English, moving to Southern English closer to Camelyn

Cairhien - Chinese

Bordelands - Japanese

Tear - Spanish

Ebou Dar - Middle Eastern

Domani - Indian

I’m not hugely wedded to the above, just how I pictured the general feel for the continent. I’m happy enough with the casting, except for one, I just would’ve preferred a homogenised look for each location. Again, I don’t care which homogenised look you go for i.e. West African look for Andor, just a way of keeping areas distinct and helping people stand out as ‘foreign’. 
 

Appreciate a lot of this may be picked up in dress or attitude as we go on but just where I am starting from. 
 

The only casting choice I’m not 100% on board with is Moiraine. Her being very short felt like an innate part of her character, with people underestimating her and being so much like a Cairhien. Rosamund Pike to me is just too physically imposing and her acting is very much coming across as bored. 
 

Two actors I hope will improve are Rand and Perrin. 
 

Rand sounds like he is breathily narrating everything and Perrin, whilst I understand is probably trying to express grief, appears to have some sort of speech difficulty and sounds a bit like Lenny from of Mice and Men. 

16 minutes ago, pretty_blossom said:

I watched the 3 episodes, and i can see why they changed things, some for the better and some because there's no choice in a different medium. I find that Leila was a necessary change, as well as Abel Cathoun - but I don't understand why they made Mat a thief, or what's with the changes to the power. Aes Sedai do not need hands or mouth to work the power, but they do need to see the threads - so what's with Moirain telling about a blind one, or the poor yellow getting her hands cut off and being gaged?!

The story that Nynaev told about the previous wisdom getting rejected from the White Tower for being poor is also fishy - if she really could channel, thr Tower would have kept her no matter what. Still, Nynaeve does need a better reason to hate Moirain other than "she took my people out of my village and ruined their lives" - that one always was a weak motive to me - it's not Moirain's fault Rand can channel, or Perrin talking to wolves.

The book literally states that AS need their hands to channel and you can tell who taught them by the movements they make. 
 

The difference is that you don’t need your hands to channel, which is why the Wise Ones have open contempt of the silly waving about that the AS do. 
 

The Nynaeve one, again, later Tower accepts anyone but the Tower at the beginning turns away people who are deemed to be ‘too old’. 

7 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

It accomplished a great deal in a short amount of time: the general take of the show towards nudity (it's not going to be gratuitous); the intimacy of the bond between Mo and Lan; Mo's ability to do magic; the fact that a Fade is in town and they have to speed up their plan. The fact that it was a shoutout to a Lan scene that had to be cut for pacing is icing on the cake.

 

It was one of the scenes that definitely felt more natural and allowed an exposition moment without it being an exposition dump. 

Just now, Joe B said:

I'm okay with the bath scene. I do not, however, like the dialogue. ["it could be hotter"] It's not just Lan, I strongly dislike this type of statement outside of observation. If you want it hotter, then say it. Otherwise, you'll get a "noted" from me.

Maybe that is meant to be an inference to her slight weakness in weaving fire?

I seem to have a distant memory from the books that it was her weakest weave or maybe I’m conflating it with men typically being stronger in weaving fire?