For the part on the banner perhaps the hero's follow whoever blows the horn, UNLESS the dragon is reborn and is at the current location.

The horn summons, but only one with the banner can command the host. I suspect that over the centuries, this little tidbit of information got lost to history.

One word...Ta'veren ! Rand did not blow the horn, Mat did. I feel that is the "something wrong" that Hawkwing mentions. The prophicies say the Dragon will blow the horn but being Rand and Mat (also Perrin) are Ta'veren (and as Min has pointed out on numerous occasions) they are tied together.They came because of the horn but follow the "banner".So if Rand was turned they would follow the "banner" which ever side he was on. "The weave of this moment is set",all 3 are there,Rand,Mat and Perrin. They will all have to be together to defeat/re-seal the Dark One.

I hope this makes some sense, It seems odd but don't know how to put into words what I am thinking.

I am also reminded that Artur Hawkwing himself did most of the talking for the dead heroes. And Tuon is one of his direct descendants. And she married Mat. And he blew the horn.

I wonder what influence this will have on Tuon if she should actually witness Mat blow the horn again, recalling Hawkwing, and then seeing the Dragon issue commands to Hawkwing. That could possibly change a few things about those pesky altered Seanchan Prophecies, don't you think?

As for the Eye, perhaps it served to shield Rand from the taint all this time? Or at least, it did once he accepted his own history. The brilliant lines that Nynaeve sees in Rands mind along with the shadow tendrils... hasn't anyone wondered exactly which veins the chapter "Veins of Gold" referred to? I don't recall that phrase actually appearing in that chapter, except for the title. Perhaps those are the "veins" referred to? I'm probably wrong. I'm often wrong. It's part of my charm.

Rand in my opinion has not done anything considered "mad." The only time I can remember Rand doing anything that might make him mad was in the EotW when he is on the boat with Mat and Thom and he just goes crazy on the mast. However, after the Eye incident he does not really do anything mad (except talk to Lews Therin but thats normal since he is the dragon reborn). So I think it is fair to presume that the Eye is what is keeping the madness away. Also, maybe the Eye had something to do with all of the stuff blooming around Rand in ToM. Once he accepts his role then maybe the power of the Eye really kicked in.

Oh, Trollocslayer, I think that Rand was deeply mad indeed... The ultimate proof of that is the unhealable mess which Nynaeve found in his brain while Delving. In the latest books we learned that the male channellers' madness can have as many shades as many personalities there are. Rand's madness was: getting always harder and harder, growing self-condemnation (wasn't counting the dead women quite crazy?), building the wall between himself and the world, sudden outbursts of anger, constant fear of beig manipulated and controlled... As the story develops it gets harder to dfferentiate between the taint-caused madness and the growing dark influence through the bond with Moridin, but still - I think there's enough of it. On the other hand, Rand going crazy on the mast in tEotW wasn't crazy at all, it was a spontaneous act of a still innocent boy... IIRC.

Gwenifer, I am not so sure. You hear about asha'man that are going crazy by seeing fades that do not exist or turning into a child and playing with blocks. I will admit his trying to become harder and harder could be influenced by the taint. Counting the woman he has killed might be thought as crazy but we see that Mat also remembers the women he has killed and also hates it as much and he is not mad. Also there are many accounts of people who don't want to be manipulated. I feel it is worse with Rand because he is around Aes Sedai all of the time. The pressures of his role as savior are good enough excuse for his outbursts. Who wouldn't be angry all the time with Cadsuane around? Like you said it is hard to tell what would be consider madness when there are so many other variables like mordin, and annoying people and the pressure that he has to save the world. However, I have read the passage on the boat many times and I feel that it was a glimpse at madness. Even Rand is surprised at himself for what he was doing. It is hard to tell. I guess I expect madness to be more evident like with the asha'man. I have a feeling that the Eye was keeping the bigger part of the madness away and that gives him the light that is between his brain and the black mess of thorns. I guess I could be looking for a more complex reason when the reason for the light is probably because he is the dragon reborn or because he now understands why he fights. (Both are fine I guess). I just feel that I would probably do the same thing in Rands situation and hopefully I am not mad hahahahahaha. If you knew you were going to die and your only hope is to maybe save the world while you do it then I would be a little touchy. Not to mention half the world you are trying to save blames you for one thing or another and hates you to boot. Duty is heavy as a mountain, death is light as a feather.

@Gwenifer

It have been considered that his "madness" and talking to LTT is just him developing a split personality and he create LTT in order to cope with his sudden extra memories of past lives. All the weaves and memories that Rand would never know, but LTT would know, is just the memories Rand apparently already had since very early on (as mentioned earlier in these comments).

Basicly, he already had all this information, he just did not accept it and fought it.

Apart from that, there is nothing that could not be considered "normal" insanity, considering the pressure the man is under.

Just look at a sulky kid and Rand's actions are not that far off sometimes. Other times he is just acting the way he think it is ment for him to be. It is like looking at someone steeling him/her self after a dear relative have passed away, and you know that they are hurting so badly inside, but whatever you say just cant get through to them because they are so sure that this is the way it must be.

Thus, it is quite possible to say that The Eye inoculated him from the very start and that the only madness he was subjected to was what he channeled before The Eye.

However, he do mention the oily and sickly taint on Saidin even after The Eye, so clearly he sense it, but is he affected by it the way the others are?

Since he cleansed Saidin before Veins of Gold, we will never really know how him having that protection would affect his perception of The Taint.

I find myself wondering that if the Forsaken and/or their allies got a hold of the horn, the heroes that it summons may be very different from those that appeared for Mat. For example, they may find some of the greatest Darkfriends or Trolloc chieftains from history summoned to their call.

In turn, those Darkfriends (Darkheroes, really) may refuse to follow the commands of the horn bearer until, for example, Ishmael/Moridin raises his own banner.

Gwenifer: Rand's occasional bouts of craziness/sickness in EotW were reactions to toching the True Source, paralleling the reactions described by Moiraine. Notice that each reaction took place a short time after a known occurence of channeling or an extremely lucky event:

-- his odd (impetuous, feverish) behavior toward the Whitecloaks in Baerlon came little over a week after he washed away Bela's tireness while fleeing the Two Rivers;

-- his extremely risk-oblivious behavior on the White Spray took place a few days to a week after a boom broke loose and saved him from a trolloc while boarding the ship, just in the nick of time;

-- and his chills/fever/sickness on the road to Caemlyn (the sickness he was experiencing when the then-nameless Mili Skane tried to assassinate Rand and Mat in a barn between Market Sheran and Carrysford) came a few days after Howal Gode and his minions were suddenly struck by lightning, saving Rand and Mat's lives. Ba'alzamon later said that Gode had found Rand for him, and that Rand sometimes hid and sometimes lit signal fires.

That said, Rand was batshit crazy in the later books. The fact that Lews Therin was real doesn't mean Rand was sane -- he was still paranoid and talking to a voice in his head; he displayed obsessive and compulsive tendencies (e.g.: reciting the list of dead women, muttering about breaking the seals while holding one over his head in the beginning of LoC). His craziness happened slowly -- so slowly that each bit seemed natural, even rational. But imagine how you would view him if you first met him in book 8.

I have an alternate theory as to what the Eye of the World really was meant to do.

I think it was meant to provide a "clean" Saidin source to protect the Seals from the Dark One's taint (since they're practically in direct contact with the bore, the Dark One would just need to wear them down... leading to the question of why the seals lasted so long, but are now falling apart).

So essentially, the Eye provides a safe source of Saidin that is connected to the Seals, and keeps them from decaying and crumbling due to the taint (not unlike what happened in the Ways). When Rand used the Saidin of the Eye, it removed this protection, and the Seals began to weaken - at first, just being weak enough to be capable of being damaged by cutting, but eventually to the point that destroying them would be as trivial as dropping them from a short height.

It might also explain why Aginor so wanted the Eye - if he could be the one to break open the seal, he'd be nae'blis. The first step to that would be to deal with the Eye itself, and then he'd just have to destroy the seals physically, one by one.

Note that the Seals are half black cuendillar, half white cuendillar... which seems like it might mean half-male and half-female created... if true, then they weren't made at the sealing of the bore; maybe they were made at the same time as the creation of the Eye, an event that involved both males and females. This would also explain why the old Aes Sedai symbol was used on it - because it involved a unified effort.

So yeah, I think the Eye was the protector of the Seals (not physically, but in terms of the One Power), and as Herid Fel pointed out, you have to destroy the seal before you can undo the bore, so using the Eye was necessary. In effect, the Eye existed purely for the purpose of delaying the weakening of the Dark One's prison.

Mind you, that isn't to say that the seal wasn't already weakening. Even the Eye wouldn't hold it off forever, and the seal had weakened just enough that Aginor and Balthamel could get free, since they were sealed so close to the surface of it. But the use of the Eye's power by Rand allowed the seal to weaken rapidly, releasing the other Forsaken and producing decay of the physical Seals at a rate far beyond what it had been in the previous 3000 years.

The placement of one Seal inside the Eye was essentially a protection mechanism, so that even if the other seals were broken after some decay, one seal would remain protected until the Eye was used up.

That said, Rand was batshit crazy in the later books.

+10, totally cuckoo

About him having yet another power, Light, to wield, I don't know, I think Maradon was just an awesome display of how to use the One Power... efficiently. Imo there are/(were?) enough powers available to him via OP, Ta'veren and maybe still TP.

So, guys...

Padraig, we are of the same opinion then? :) As to tEotW, I admit I didn't remember those things because it's been a while since I last read it.

Trollocslayer, Ferdawoon - I think the word Mashiara used is accurate: paranoia. I've always considered Rand's hardness etc the natural result of the pressure he's been put under, his character developement, of course. But then I read what Nynaeve saw in his head.

I remember this beautiful deiscussion on whether the voice was real (the real madness, right? :) or was a result of developing split personality, like Ferdawoon said. I've never liked the second option (by the way, the discussion was one of the first things I read on DM and made me think: "these people are insane, I must join in!" :)). Therefore I don't think it madness.

What I really think is that all those Rand's natural predispositions and attributes became the foundation (sorry, I can't find the word since English is not my first language) for his madness which made them grow to the state of paranoia.

I like to think so, but, honestly, you may as well be right and maybe this is one of the WoT things we'll never really find out :) Especially after what you reminded me about tEotW. I'm not a person who says "it's this way, amen" and - by the way - I'm actually shocked to find such pronouncements here on DM, while, come on, this is all about the interpretation! I'm sure Shakespeare would be proud of Jordan, since this is exactly what he loved and how he created Hamlet, so that both it's characters and the readers try their best to interpret prince Hamlet... and all of them may be right, there's no one exclusive explanation.

I don't know. I have thought Rand's hardness was due to him believing he had to be steel so that he had no weaknesses for his enemies to attack. Which is a very real reaction people have when in situations where you are paranoid your enemies will only try to attack you at your weakest points (loved ones). Like when Semirhage was forcing him to strangle Min. He states he thought he was steeled enough but he had to become Cuellendar (spelling) at that point. Which in turn was pushing him closer to a point he would be more vulnerable to turning evil.

I do really like the idea that his insanity created LTT to protect his mind. Creating LTT in his head to grant him the information he was going to learn.

Aielyn, I really like your theory - maybe apart from the idea that the Seals were made after the actual sealing of the Bore, since according to the Big White Book the disks of cuendillar had already been prepared before LTT and the 100 Companions went on their mission (and this book is supposed to always be right, right?...). They used them as the focal points for making the real Seals of saidin.

I don't know if it's right, but I've always thought that the Seals were breaking due to something important Rand just and did that's why for the Shadow it's vital that he live. Using up the Eye would be first such thing. But then what about the remaining 2 if he can just break them with his bare hands... Maybe this could go together with your theory of the pool of clean saidin as a protection for the Seals until the Dragon comes.

One thing that I never got was how Aginor was starting to heal just tapping into the Eye. Given his condition, and the inability of people to heal themselves, the Eye seemed to allow him to do this .

I agree Gwenifer. One can't be 100% sure about these kinds of speculations but it is fun speculating.

Orderofolde, very interesting question. I don't know. Maybe if you do not channel for 3000 years it takes away the age slowing but if you channel again it takes affect and you become younger. I doubt it though because he becomes A LOT younger. That brings up some more questions. What is the relationship to age and channeling in men? Will men live as long as women? Do men age slowly?

I just thought of another theory. Maybe if using up the Eye slowly gave the Dark One more influence (like discussed by weakening seals or exposing seals to weakness) so the Dark One could give Aginor a more youthful body. Just a theory.

If using up what was within the eye weakened the seals and gave power to the Dark One, then why, when they left the Blight, was the Blight receded and weakened? wouldn't giving power to the Dark One make it more menacing and powerful? Or was destroying his army at Tarwain's Gap enough to weaken him? If that is true, then are Trollocs and Mydraall (spelling) somehow connected to the Blight?

So many questions. Very few answers.

If the connection between shadowspawn and the Blight is true, then later when Rand destroys the humongus army in the Blight in Towers of Midnight, then was the blight weakened once more? Or was the Dark One so powerful then that it didn't matter?

I'm loving this discussion...

Aielyn - Love the theory. I think you're on to something, but I've wondered for some time if the taint itself was what caused the seals to slowly wear away and break. What if the very act of channeling saidin, and thus the taint that used to come with it, was what weakened the seals. Aes Sedai hunting down men who could channel for 3000 years would certainly push back the expiration date on the seals, because they're reducing the amount of saidin being channeled in the world. But as you say, the seals would eventually wear down because there was still SOME male-channeling going on. So maybe Eye was actually meant to BREAK the seals intentionally. Rand has determined that the seals would have to be broken in order to truly seal up the Bore, which means Lews Therin must have known that'd be the case when he went ahead with his Strike on Shayol Ghul. Perhaps he planned ahead for the next Dragon, leaving a way to ultimately break all the seals when the next Dragon started channeling. Using up the power in the Eye started the countdown. My latest looney theory. That one's got some holes, though, obviously.

As for "How Crazy was/is Rand," I would say that Rand, if he were alive today, would need a psychologist, but not a psychiatrist. Was Rand starting to go off the deep end? Surely. Was he "padded cell" crazy? Almost. Was it CAUSED by the taint? I don't think so. I think it was caused by the pressure he was under, which was self-induced as much as it came from external sources. The analysis of Rand's self-destructive behavior in EotW is spot on, that's early signs of channeling sickness, not taint-induced madness. It was said over and over that many male channelers held off the madness for years, even decades, but here's the important part: Rand is clearly not mad now, and Nynaeve's delving proves that the taint has certainly taken hold, and had been in him for quite some time. But no one has healed Rand's madness yet. Ergo, if he is not already suffering from taint-induced madness, and has not gone through any form of healing that would reduce the impact of the taint's hold on him, then he could not have been suffering from taint-induced madness at any other point in the series. Whatever madness he was dealing with was a function of stress and pressure, like normal people deal with, and not saidin.

Also, I really like the idea of love being the veins of gold that are possibly holding off the madness. This explains a lot more about why the Dragon needed three lovers. He'll carry more of the taint, and thus the pattern gave him 3 times the lovin'. And also Rand as an Aiel gives him a precedent for polygamy in his own time. Love is the shield that slows the taint. I like that a lot.

@Captain Musenge, The reason the Blight was receded at the end of tEotW was cause of the sacrifice the Green Man made.

that makes much more sense. Thank you Pawan.

@ Metal Head:

I just reread the Rhuidean sequence from TSR. The Aiel are sent packing the same time as the plan for the Eye is made, and presumably, the mentioned Foretelling is the bulk of the prophesies of the Dragon. Nothing to indicate that Lews Therin anticipated the backlash/taint. The strike at the Shayol Ghul seems exactly the last ditch effort it was made out to be. I don't believe the seals were made with the intention of being broken by Rand. It seems like the prophesies were given during the Breaking, well after the fact. I do agree with the part about Rand's madness, though.