Canon, almost canon, non-canon, and cannons

[dexterryu]

I consider all of the books cannon. They are all officially sanctioned and therefor the final word... because that is all we have. I enjoyed the last 3 books, however as others have said the voices and characters aren't quite right. All of the male characters except for Perrin after TGS had a bit too much Kelsier in them (a little to happy and optimistic given the situation).

The female characters felt OK to me. 

 

That said, I'd have loved to have been able to read the last 3 books if they had been written by RJ. I'm sure that we would have gotten a different path to a very similar conclusion. Which is why they all count to me. I'm sure there are some mysteries that RJ would still be saying RAFO to if he were still here today.

[szilard]

Sanderson turned 100 pages of written scenes and 100 pages of notes into 2500 pages.

 

Just a little 'correction': manuscript pages != printed pages (usually you have to divide them with 2 or 3)

 

 

They are all officially sanctioned

 

Because of the advance which TOR paid for Jordan's last book + the first three books of his new series. As we know from Jordan and others, Doherty is a really greedy man (just one example: Jordan was on his deathbed, and Doherty wanted him to finish the book...), so yeah, money makes everything official.

[Guest]

If Robert Jordan himself did NOT want the books to be finished, (((and I have ZERO Doubts that he wanted it done, even knowing he probably wouldn't be able to do it))), then why did he spend many of the last hours of his life dictating notes about the characters and final plot lines of his book?  Robert Jordan himself authorized the books to be completed. Therefore, any attempt to label TGS, ToM, and AMoL as fan fiction .. or even authorized fan fiction... falls upon deaf ears to me. 

[szilard]

Don't worry, I see your deafness (trolling), so this is my last post for you.

 

Mr Jordan wanted to write 'a longer than a trilogy' at first, then it became 5 or 6 books (he had to write x books under y years; we don't know anything about his later contracts), then at least three more books, just a prequel, just a prequel trilogy, just three more books, a final book, then a few outrigger novels etc. Maybe in the end of Infinity heavens will some recognize the protagonist as Rand.

 

Read his final interview, then you will know that he wanted to finish AMOL alone.

 

After his death, they've told us that the book is almost complete, then  there are a few missing parts, then there are huge missing chunks, and in the end we got a 'basically there is nothing except a prologue'.

 

W H E R E   A R E   the notes then, hmm? They will never show us anything, because there is nothing (except a handful pages).

[dexterryu]

If Robert Jordan himself did NOT want the books to be finished, (((and I have ZERO Doubts that he wanted it done, even knowing he probably wouldn't be able to do it))), then why did he spend many of the last hours of his life dictating notes about the characters and final plot lines of his book?  Robert Jordan himself authorized the books to be completed. Therefore, any attempt to label TGS, ToM, and AMoL as fan fiction .. or even authorized fan fiction... falls upon deaf ears to me. 

 

To me the further point is that there isn't any other version of the story out there to conflict with... like say for instance Star Wars. For the longest time the official novels were considered cannon until until Disney bought the Star Wars franchise. There is now 2 versions of the story and fans can debate which would be better to see on screen. Wheel of Time only has 1, and it's endorsed by the original author, his Wife/Editor, and the publisher.

 

While we know much of the story had to be created by BS to fill in the gaps, we have no way of knowing what RJ would have done or how it's different.

[Sabio]

Seems more of people don't want those canon because they dislike BS.  He was asked to finish the series by RJ, worked with RJ and his wife, and finished the series.  How can it not be canon?

[dexterryu]

Seems more of people don't want those canon because they dislike BS.  He was asked to finish the series by RJ, worked with RJ and his wife, and finished the series.  How can it not be canon?

 

While I'm in the "they should be cannon" camp... BS didn't get involved at all until after RJs death. He and RJ never met. 

[Guest]

Who would know better than RJ's own wife, whether or not Robert Jordan authorized the WoT to be finished by someone else in the event that he died before he himself could do it???

 

 

To me, the trollers are the ones who are dismissive of THAT fact.

[Occams whiskey bottle]

Robert Jordan asked his wife to find someone to finish his series after he passed away. He dictated how he wanted the series to go, and even wrote the final chapter and he did it because he wanted the books finished. I don't think that you have to like that books that Brandon Sanderson wrote, but there is no question that they are in fact all canon. 

 

Here's the fact that seems to escape people. Robert Jordan is dead. The final book that he would have written will never be written. However, the essence of the book was written by Brandon Sanderson as dictated by Robert Jordan. That makes it canon. It's fact. Facts don't care what you think they are what they are despite of what you want them to be.

[wheeloftimetv]

Your misreading the "facts" though. Jordan did not dictate the whole book, only a small part of it.

[Guest]

However, one fact that shall always be true. The final three books of the WOT series, "The Gathering Storm", "Towers of Midnight", and "A Memory of Light", are ALL Canon in the Wheel of Time series. No one is saying that you have to like those books. But ignoring that they are indeed Canon is willfully ignoring the facts. 

[dexterryu]

Here is one thing that I think everyone forgets about when it comes to RJ and him wanting someone else to finish the series... I can completely understand him early on in his illness scoffing at the idea of someone else writing his story. Even well into it, there was hope he would beat the disease. If I were in his shoes at that point there would be no way I would agree to letting anyone finish it. As long as I had hope, this would not change.

 

I would imagine that very late in the game RJ realized his time was ending. At that point, a change of heart would happen and I would want my legacy to be completed and not left unfinished. According to this blog from Wilson even days before his death he planned on finishing the story himself: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/blog/4/entry-380-rumors-and-rumors-of-rumors/

 

Heck less than one month prior to his passing he was blogging himself: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/blog/4/entry-379-a-very-quick-check-in/

 

That is a big reason why BS was left with so little. That said, the ending was known and is the ending we got.

[Kesiera_Sedai]

I don't really accept the last 3 books as canon...only the parts that came from RJ's notes, because BS got certain things wrong that are explicitly spelled out. For example, he referred to angreal/sa'angreal as reservoirs of power, which anyone who studies the books in any detail will know is WRONG. We find out in Winter's Heart that such things do exist, but they aren't angreal or sa'angreal. It's a ter'angreal called a Well, and the only two known are possessed by Nyneave and Cadsuane. It's how they're able to channel in Far Madding. They allow you to store a set amount of the One Power sort of like having a cup of saidar on hand for when you're inside a shedding or some such place. If he got such a thing wrong, what else did he miss?

[Kesiera_Sedai]

However, one fact that shall always be true. The final three books of the WOT series, "The Gathering Storm", "Towers of Midnight", and "A Memory of Light", are ALL Canon in the Wheel of Time series. No one is saying that you have to like those books. But ignoring that they are indeed Canon is willfully ignoring the facts.

[Kesiera_Sedai]

(sigh) you're right, but still think that although he did an OK job, I've seen WoT fan fiction that was better written than the last three books. Some of it I even wished was written into an entire book, especially a story that included a being that was supposed to be Shaidar Haran Light-side counterpart, the Hand of the Light.