Beyond the Wall - Game Thread - GAME OVER

[Shad_]

Traditionally Masons are always town who know each other's alignment. Anything else would be Neighbors.

 

That's obviously not the case in this game because AJ, but it would still be completely bastard to lump a villager in a Mason pair with a wolf.

 

So basically I think Masons in this game are people who know each other's wincons and have some capacity to help each other achieve them. If one is non-town they'll both be non-town. Whether they're detrimental to town or something like Survivor, /shrug.

[John Snow]

  On 7/7/2016 at 3:15 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 7/7/2016 at 2:10 AM, dicetosser1 said:

my mason partner and back up role cop is BPFlea

I like how after being awkwardly reluctant to reveal the name of your partner you voluntarily role reveal for her as well like that bit's no big deal.

 

Well this should be interesting. Flea, care to confirm that you're mafia or brood aligned with Dice?

 

 

Yeah that bit is suspicious as hell. 

[Kaylee]

So in that senario Dice and Princess ate non town then. I've never seen role cop as a town role.

[Shad_]

There are a lot of other angles too, like Dice was a mason with AJ and since nothing's going to reveal that he told a partner to claim it so when Dice flips a dirty Mason we'll all assume the partner is Jester and leave them alive.

 

The mechanics of this game allow for a complexity of claim shenanigans that I'm kind of hesitant to even try to parse out.

[Lenlo]

Ok... But Occams Razor.

[Kaylee]

The updated OP doesn't say AJ is a Mason. So now I'm confused on if he was one or not.

[Shad_]

  On 7/7/2016 at 3:39 AM, Kaylee said:

So in that senario Dice and Princess ate non town then. I've never seen role cop as a town role.

I was a town role cop once.

 

If Flea denies it then who knows; read her on her own merit. If she confirms it then I think they're both non-town, but that won't necessarily make her mafia.

[Shad_]

  On 7/5/2016 at 11:13 PM, Darthe said:

Andrej, who was known as Cooler, the Mason Jester Survivor was found dead.

[Lenlo]

  On 7/7/2016 at 3:41 AM, Lenlo said:

Ok... But Occams Razor.

[Kaylee]

Well anti town, besides isn't the goal to get rid of anti town?

 

Anyway I'm going to bed. Goodnight

[Shad_]

  On 7/7/2016 at 3:41 AM, Lenlo said:

Ok... But Occams Razor.

You pretty much said to hell with that yesterday when I explained to you the improbability of Dice's claim being legit and why it made no sense for you to completely shift gears on him.

 

But whatever. In a normal game nowhere near lylo it would be stupid to not trust a mason-backed cop peek claim.  In a game like this you should just trust reads.

 

Like if we're busting out antiquated roles like Jester, it's entirely possible for scum to have a Silencer that accounts for Flea never posting this phase.

 

It's a waste of time trying to piece it all together, frankly.

 

I want you to tell me what about Dice makes him a villager here based on his game play.

 

We'll see if Flea shows up and if she rolls with the Mason claim later.

[Kaylee]

  On 7/7/2016 at 3:43 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 7/5/2016 at 11:13 PM, Darthe said:

Andrej, who was known as Cooler, the Mason Jester Survivor was found dead.

Yes but page one was edited today and doesn't say mason. Wasn't sure which one was a goof.

[Shad_]

  On 7/6/2016 at 5:43 PM, Shad_ said:

I just woke up and have a lot of work ahead of me before I can really sit down. Just a few points for anyone who seriously doubts this:

 

I've been a Mason with Dice before. He wanted to claim the entire game and I had to continually talk him out of it. He doesn't see it as some terrible thing that a villager only does as a last ditch effort.

 

He role and character claimed with zero hesitation but he's super defensive about revealing his Mason. If he was a town mason with a red peek on me he would know he's dead tonight and clearing his partner would be the most important thing on his mind today after getting me lynched.

 

The only other explicitly Mason flip in the game was not a villager.  Sili and Zander were teamed as wolf and SK.  We already have reason to believe Dice can be a wolf Mason.  The fact that he refuses to reveal who pretty much guarantees this unless he's lying about the role in the first place.

 

Mafia have fake claims or else character names are not alignment indicative or else character reveals are not allowed. This has been true in every game I have ever played on DM as far as I can remember. Claiming Bran is worth exactly nothing.

 

He keeps pushing that he has to be town because he wouldn't claim Role Cop as a wolf. That is massively WIFOM and pretty much every wolf you've ever seen claim a PR that can be mafia has said something along these lines.

 

Dice played the Zander topic D1 exactly the same as he played Sooh in Dragon Reborn when Dice was a wolf, and anyone who takes 5 minutes to ISO that game will recognize it.

 

What Dice is pulling on me is literally the exact same thing a wolf pulled on him in Lost.  It's not some wild "wow never expected Dice to do that" play.  It's something that just happened to him and he came into this game intensely aware of its effectiveness.

 

I've been an obvious villager all game and Dice has been playing right in line to his wolf meta and plenty of you recognized this prior to his claim.

 

He was straight-up lolcatting at me last night.  I called him out for not addressing any of my D1 concerns like six times and when he finally acknowledged that I was doing this I quoted them for him and he literally pretended I didn't.

 

 

  On 7/6/2016 at 5:38 AM, dicetosser1 said:

cant find the quote huh shad?

 

 

He's been wavering back and forth between still trying and openly wolfing and this is really freakin obvious.

 

Anyone who is hesitant to lynch him today had better have a good answer for all of these points.  Especially Hallia and Lenlo.

 

 

Like, read this and explain to me how it is not dead on.

[Shad_]

And read his rebuttal.  Seriously.

[Lenlo]

  On 7/7/2016 at 3:58 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 7/7/2016 at 3:41 AM, Lenlo said:

Ok... But Occams Razor.

You pretty much said to hell with that yesterday when I explained to you the improbability of Dice's claim being legit and why it made no sense for you to completely shift gears on him.

 

But whatever. In a normal game nowhere near lylo it would be stupid to not trust a mason-backed cop peek claim.  In a game like this you should just trust reads.

 

Like if we're busting out antiquated roles like Jester, it's entirely possible for scum to have a Silencer that accounts for Flea never posting this phase.

 

It's a waste of time trying to piece it all together, frankly.

 

I want you to tell me what about Dice makes him a villager here based on his game play.

 

We'll see if Flea shows up and if she rolls with the Mason claim later.

 

Yeah, get that. But your entire defense is just.. it seems so desperate. Like, your saying I threw that out the window when you "explained" the improbability of his claim and yet here you are claiming possible silencers, complex shenanigans, dirty masons. Whats more probable? Dice was a wolfy PR D1, or any of that stuff?

 

As I said, im waiting for Princess. Dont throw crap like, what you should do in a game like this is X, when I have played in basically every Darthe game. Im probably the only one in this game who HAS played in every Darthe game, cept for maybe Kaylee and Hallia.

[Lenlo]

  On 7/7/2016 at 3:40 AM, Shad_ said:

There are a lot of other angles too, like Dice was a mason with AJ and since nothing's going to reveal that he told a partner to claim it so when Dice flips a dirty Mason we'll all assume the partner is Jester and leave them alive.

 

The mechanics of this game allow for a complexity of claim shenanigans that I'm kind of hesitant to even try to parse out.

What mechanics Shad? Do you know something I dont? Because all ive seen is a Mason Survivor Jester, a Wolf and an SK in the same "brood" and now a claimed Role Cop.

 

What mechanics do you know about that I dont, that make this game complex as all get out, beyond Darthe being the one who made it?

[Shad_]

  On 7/7/2016 at 4:02 AM, Lenlo said:

Yeah, get that. But your entire defense is just.. it seems so desperate. Like, your saying I threw that out the window when you "explained" the improbability of his claim and yet here you are claiming possible silencers, complex shenanigans, dirty masons. Whats more probable? Dice was a wolfy PR D1, or any of that stuff?

 

As I said, im waiting for Princess. Dont throw crap like, what you should do in a game like this is X, when I have played in basically every Darthe game. Im probably the only one in this game who HAS played in every Darthe game, cept for maybe Kaylee and Hallia.

  On 7/7/2016 at 4:03 AM, Lenlo said:

What mechanics Shad? Do you know something I dont? Because all ive seen is a Mason Survivor Jester, a Wolf and an SK in the same "brood" and now a claimed Role Cop.

 

What mechanics do you know about that I dont, that make this game complex as all get out, beyond Darthe being the one who made it?

This is pretty reaching mate.

[Lenlo]

How is it reaching? Explain it to me? Dont dismiss it with 5 words, tell me. Weve got time. Im waiting for Princess.

[Shad_]

I'm not even sure what to respond to that with.  I called Dice out on D1 quite a bit, and so did you, and we were pretty well in agreement on it.  I proceeded to build it up into a really solid case today while you took a back seat claiming the game was too confusing for you to piece together.  Pretty much everyone who actually commented on it agreed that it was pretty damning of Dice.  You choose to focus on some minutia about my thoughts on the implication of non-town Masons that I presented when specifically asked.

[Lenlo]

  On 7/7/2016 at 4:11 AM, Shad_ said:

I'm not even sure what to respond to that with.  I called Dice out on D1 quite a bit, and so did you, and we were pretty well in agreement on it.  I proceeded to build it up into a really solid case today while you took a back seat claiming the game was too confusing for you to piece together.  Pretty much everyone who actually commented on it agreed that it was pretty damning of Dice.  You choose to focus on some minutia about my thoughts on the implication of non-town Masons that I presented when specifically asked.

Thats not explaining how the previous comments were reaching. Its also not explaining the mechanics you apparently know about. Its also not explaining the plethora of reasons, outside of his wolfiness, your trying to use to disprove his claim.

 

I never said Dice was town. I never even said he was towny. What im saying is, does that mean he is lying about a view on you?

[Lenlo]

Im waiting on Princess, Shad. That is what I am doing. If she never shows up, we shall see what happens. If she does show up, well should be interesting.

[Shad_]

It's reaching because it blows off a bucket-load of content including points you raised yourself in favor of pulling up some tangential role spec based on known flips, and it's reaching because it switches to an awkwardly aggressive/defensive 'don't tell me how to play' tone irt me saying you should consider your actual read on Dice and explain how it fits into the equation.

[Lenlo]

  On 7/7/2016 at 4:16 AM, Shad_ said:

It's reaching because it blows off a bucket-load of content including points you raised yourself in favor of pulling up some tangential role spec based on known flips, and it's reaching because it switches to an awkwardly aggressive/defensive 'don't tell me how to play' tone irt me saying you should consider your actual read on Dice and explain how it fits into the equation.

I know my read on Dice. I know I dont think hes town. Im not blowing off anything in favor of some "Tangential role spec". Role cop is not tangential. Your also attacking my tone instead of talking about these mechanics you apparently know about.

 

That doesnt mean he is lying about viewing you

[Lenlo]

Im waiting for Princess before I vote, as should the rest of you. Weve got time.

[Shad_]

  On 7/7/2016 at 4:14 AM, Lenlo said:

Thats not explaining how the previous comments were reaching. Its also not explaining the mechanics you apparently know about. Its also not explaining the plethora of reasons, outside of his wolfiness, your trying to use to disprove his claim.

 

I never said Dice was town. I never even said he was towny. What im saying is, does that mean he is lying about a view on you?

That wasn't my response to the "reaching" question.

 

What reasons am I trying to use to disprove his claim beyond explaining why he's been incredibly wolfy all game? He claimed Mason in a game with an unconventional Mason. Flea will either support or deny this. It's not defensive to consider the implications of the former.

 

Like, it hasn't even happened yet.

 

To the last bit, do you think Dice is a wolf role cop who peeked me a wolf in a sort of multiball set-up?