[Basic] I <3 the 90's Mafia: Music Edition - TOWN WINS!

[Guest]

*shrug* I just skimmed through it.

 

What do you mean 80% was back and forth? I said I had read about 80% of the to and fro / back and forth. Meaning, the whole thing was a to and fro - I had said the same thing ("to and fro") plenty of times in my Lenlo iso, which you said you'd started reading, but you never commented on it then.

 

The whole thing was a to and fro - you and liz - of which I only read about 80%. When I can I'll go read it properly.

 

I really want to lynch lenlo. I really think he's not town.

[Guest]

Oh, I iso'd liz previously - and I've not changed my mind about her.

 

What does tl;dr stand for?

 

I don't really understand the last paragraph of that post - would you please ask it in different words?

 

And yes. She's voted me before, iirc.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

I'm pretty sure I've been pretty clear.

 

I'm going to stop going in circles with you because it's clogging up the thread. But I will go back and find the exchange so there's no longer any dispute about it.

 

You refuse? Then okay. I said pretty much exactly that I didn't like your conclusion considering the evidence portrayed. I later came to the conclusion that wish's vote DAY 1 on wish at that critical moment was important. However, as evidenced by the post you were responding to I do not believe that this is infallible.

 

Not one centimeter of my progression here is hypocritical.

 

*sigh*

 

 

 

Okay, this is my last attempt at trying to be clear with you on this issue.

 

 

The issue that I have with you is that you seemed to be saying that I - me, Liz -  shouldn't be coming to the conclusion that Kat was next to impossible as lenny's partner based on what I pointed out. Is that or is that not what you were saying?

 

I say a lot of things, but that sounds close enough to the truth.

 

 

[unvote]

 

[v] Liz [/v]

 

Liz, you asked about me speaking for Besie: did you not see the post of hers I quoted saying as much?

No, I did not. Why would I ask that as either town or scum if I had seen it?

 

The fact you didn't see it suggests you weren't paying attention to the posts you were quoting. Compared to everything else it's not a big deal though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And like I said, I dont' care if you mislynch me today. I just hope town sees what I'm saying and follows up with lynching you tomorrow if they actually think I'm the one making up things in this exchange.

 

so fake.

 

if i am indeed a wolf, and i mislynch you then town is completely fooled and you should care. the amount of effort you've put in implies you do care about the game. therefore this is fake.

 

I do care about this game.

 

The reason I dont' care if I'm mislynched is because I think you've outed yourself now.

 

If we were in mylo, it would be different. But we're not. So if my mislynch is what it takes for people to see that you're actually scum, then so be it. The POE is narrow enough now that it should be easy enough to find your scum partner the next day as well.

how exactly is anything you've said ironclad?

 

incidentally you're okay with dying now, but you've said nothing about a second suspect yet.

 

 

Sili, let me explain what I mean as shading.

 

There's accusing someone saying "I think when you did X it was "wolfy" because of Z"

 

That's not shading. there are many ways to shade. lol. you shaded me in your iso when you alluded to a bunch of actions negatively that were not obviously wolfy.

 

Then there's characterizing a post as "verbose" "inflammatory" "silly" without actually addressing content, or making coy statements like "Oh, do you think it's better to say that liz just doesn't finish things". That's what I call shading.  I am of the belief that if you are unable to elaborate at the time, and when you can you do, using words like inflammatory, or verbose isn't a bad thing. incidentally verbose isn't very shady. inflammatory is role neutral and was meant as such - i didn't use it to push lenlo in the slightest. You arguments are silly because you're grasping at straws. That's wolfy because you didn't justify the tunnel earnestly.

 

Luckily it was easy enough to find because the link to the end of D3 is in the OP.

 

I was going to include the links to all the posts related to that conversation so Sili can't accuse me of "cherry picking", but it got tedious and people can just follow it for themselves.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667900

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667901

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667912

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667914

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667915

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667916

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667918

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667920

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667923

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667924

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667925

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667928

 

I'm done for now. I'm going to stop clogging up the thread.

This is pointless because i haven't seen you comment yet on the posts i think are villagery. So it'd still be cherry-picking lol.

 

This is another type of shading. Basically saying calling the post cherrypicking, saying you don't think it's villagery, without showing me the cherries that I supposedly missed. You dismiss the whole post without actually addressing the content.

 

THERE IS NO CONTENT IN YOUR POST.

 

 

 

Yes, because everything I've told you about my play says that I'm a normal villager.

 

And you keep making these statements about "normal villagers" as though that's actually a thing

 

Anyway, I said i was going to stop this. I'm going to look up that exchange now.

 

i suspect you fall under the broad range of typical villager. i don't know exactly what you'd do however, so i'm left to speculate.

 

all i'm doing is explaining why it was interesting however. i'm not sure if it means anything, but i speculate that it does.

 

You're saying that you don't know what I do when I've explained in pretty much excrutiating detail what it is what I do?

 

Okay. Let's go with that.

 

Goodnight.

 

 

you talked a lot about mariokarts, but i'm not very interested in that.

 

i suppose i could do more research on you. iso you in other games, but 95% of the time you're a wolf. Should i do more research for that 5%???

 

I think no tbh.

 

And here you go again. You are confusing shading for a statement of fact.

 

I believe that you are 95% of the time a wolf, and I explain to you why I don't feel obligated to do more research.

 

I don't mean to be rude, but when you spend a wot on something erroneous I'm not obligated to read it.

And you're right. You're not obligated to read it. But then you don't get to say that I didn't give you facts for you to respond to. Well you can say it, but it's bull*** and you know it.

I don't recall ever accusing you of not giving me meta info. My arguments about your alignment are not even meta-based. 

 

But now that I think about it I might have said you hadn't given me meta info after you attacked me for not having meta on you. sigh.

 

If that's so, I'm not blaming you for not dissecting your own meta for me. I'm blaming you for not doing that and expecting me to know better.

in red. idc.

[Sili Quirrels]

*shrug* I just skimmed through it.

 

What do you mean 80% was back and forth? I said I had read about 80% of the to and fro / back and forth. Meaning, the whole thing was a to and fro - I had said the same thing ("to and fro") plenty of times in my Lenlo iso, which you said you'd started reading, but you never commented on it then.

 

The whole thing was a to and fro - you and liz - of which I only read about 80%. When I can I'll go read it properly.

 

I really want to lynch lenlo. I really think he's not town.

Ah. I just conflated the two maybe.

 

The way liz is going this is going to be forced today or tomorrow, and I want it forced today unless anyone has a super strong reason to vote outside of me and liz.

 

As to lenlo far as i know clov went at him hard. i'm starting to think bfg was right when she called him town most of the time.

[Sili Quirrels]

Oh, I iso'd liz previously - and I've not changed my mind about her.

 

What does tl;dr stand for?

 

I don't really understand the last paragraph of that post - would you please ask it in different words?

 

And yes. She's voted me before, iirc.

it stands for too long and didn't read.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

I don't really understand the last paragraph of that post - would you please ask it in different words?

 

 

nvm. i'm too tired to think coherently i think.

[Sili Quirrels]

i'm not going to lie about lenlo. i just want to put him out of my mind as lock scum or lock town. if i have to learn from bfg and appeal to her wisdom i will.

[Sili Quirrels]

I'm going to try to power-skim before I get ready for work, but I'm going to do a thought dump first so I don't run out of time.

 

Sili, if you're actually town this game, then I really REALLY hope you take a good look at yourself and consider your responsibility in how you've approached other people and arguments. You've been involved in "thunderdomes" as you called them with at least 4 other players this game, and we know that at least two of those players (Hallia and Seph) were town. I still haven't read your argument with Hallia. But this is my point. It can't be all about "wolves are just out to get me!" i want to say you have purposefully poor reading comprehension. wolves aren't out to get me. most cleared me. but they shaded me from time to time.  that's really all i said. as to tdomes, do you know what tdomes are? I've had 2 of them and both were thrust on me imo.

 

I've played with you before so I was prepared for this game to get locked into arguments where you don't recognize your own blindspots in your logic. you are such a hypocrite.

 

But what feels wrong to me this game, compared to the last, is what I've pointed out as the patterns of you trying to undermine other people's logic with vague and coy statements, because i think you're a wolf i'm trying to undermine you. Sure.

 

Look, as far as I can tell I've gone about refuting your reasons first, established your inquiries as loaded questions secnd, and then called you out.  I did the same with lenlo. That defeats the meat of this argument here unless you want to insist I haven't attempted to refute your arguments.

 

Though I wouldn't be surprised if you did, sigh.

 

and then turning around and accusing them of doing that to you. THAT'S what feels scummy to me. But I'm tired of running circles with you, and as I've told Zander in the past, these types of circles wind up being a distraction. the information is there for people to judge for themselves.

 

Have I accused people of libel and slander? Yep. You've done it. I think I established where and how adequately.  Now, maybe it's just poor phrasing on your part, but it's a very consistent throughline here and you haven't justified your claims adequately imo. Instead there's a bunch of loaded questions and changing the goalposts.

Sincerely, if the 5% of the time you're town is reality, take a good hard look at yourself before you start accusing me of poor logic. You are really terrible at it.

[Sili Quirrels]

I would not be so blunt except you keep condescending to me, and you reap what you sow.

 

If you want a clean game play one yourself.

[Sili Quirrels]

But I'm tired of running circles with you, and as I've told Zander in the past, these types of circles wind up being a distraction. the information is there for people to judge for themselves.

 

Truth is there is repetition because you decided to tunnel me without establishing a good case, and because you're a wolf and your reasoning is reductive. I've pointed out a couple times that I have content you are not mentioning, which is cherry-picking. There are many comments lying around I don't think you've responded to effectively - basically all of them in fact. I've said your questions were loaded, but I don't think you've refuted that either. You've yet to establish that I'm a hypocrite despite the best intentions. You've accused me of being irrational not only in this game but other games, but haven't fairly demonstrated this.

 

You tell me accusing people of playing bad after they play bad is bad, but you accuse me of being irrational. You tell me that I pick fights, but I didn't pick this fight. You say I said the wolves all come at me, but that's mischaracterization.

 

You weren't around day 4. You respond to it like you were when you say you 'agreed at the time'.

 

You and clov are close but it's not until page 50 you interact with him meaningfully and only because he asked you 4 questions. You say that's not unusual but it seems unusual at a glance.

 

You are convinced I am a wolf, but you do not vote me until I remind you.

 

You are confident I will be lynched after you even though it seems I'm not in the poe (at a glance anyway). There is no justification for this. If I am a wolf I am most certainly not outed. And you still need to establish a second wolf which you've not done effectively. Head's up, town has one mislynch. If you are 'mislynched' then you need to establish that Besie is a wolf and not Laine before you die.

 

You quote Besie's post where she says her reflection on me is tinfoil and then ask Hallia why she said Besie was tinfoiling. You are not reading all the posts you quote. This is further edified when you say I did not show that Lily was implying two town peeks, when it is clear by the sequence of posts that I had. Either you lack basic knowledge of mafia or you are trying to justify grasping at straws.

 

You try to say mafia vigilante's don't exist, and you exclaim profanities because I suggest such a thing exists. Why? Do you not know that I have 200+ games under my belt? Do you assume you know everything just because you don't want to think I know something? This is an example of a pattern where you accuse of being irrational to shade me.

 

So Lizabeth, why should town think you are town?

 

It's the same question I've asked lenlo.

[Sili Quirrels]

^summed up my progression. =/

[Sili Quirrels]

i'm off. cya. liz won't be around for a while anyway. eod is coming up. no one is around. ppl should consolidate. i hope onto either me or liz but that's not up to me.

 

i think we should lynch liz for a bunch of reasons listed a couple posts ago. but i'll put it like this for brevity, i'm not a wolf, and a villager doesn't just tunnel someone out of nowhere based on a fraction of an iso and really believe they've outed a wolf to the village.

[Hallia]

I'm here, and will be.

[Sili Quirrels]

I'm here, and will be.

kk, and appreciated.

[Hallia]

<3

[Katiora]

Sorry... I"m back reading... I'll post my thoughts as soon as their ordered... trying to find a certain post and I just ain't got there yet lol gimme a sec lol

[alannalynn]

I'm eating and then I'll be back to catch up on what I missed since last night.

 

Hi all!

[Hallia]

Hello you two

[Sili Quirrels]

wombats.

[Lenlo]

Alright. Sorry ive been mia. Been really busy these last 32 hours. Today has not been a good day. :(

 

Saw Liz's case on Sili. I also saw his response. I really really want him to be a wolf... but I also really dont want to be wrong.

 

 Still learning toward lynching Besie today.

[Sili Quirrels]

Alright. Sorry ive been mia. Been really busy these last 32 hours. Today has not been a good day. :(

 

Saw Liz's case on Sili. I also saw his response. I really really want him to be a wolf... but I also really dont want to be wrong.

 

 Still learning toward lynching Besie today.

Can't say I understand where your head's at from just this.

 

 

I can't remember right now why you want to lynch Besie either, but I think I'm just forgetting that.

[Lenlo]

 

Alright. Sorry ive been mia. Been really busy these last 32 hours. Today has not been a good day. :(

 

Saw Liz's case on Sili. I also saw his response. I really really want him to be a wolf... but I also really dont want to be wrong.

 

 Still learning toward lynching Besie today.

Can't say I understand where your head's at from just this.

 

 

I can't remember right now why you want to lynch Besie either, but I think I'm just forgetting that.

 

I really want you to be a wolf so my pride can say F U.

 

But id rather win the game then lynch you just to satiate my pride. Thats what thats saying.

[keyholder21]

Official Vote Count:

 

Liz (2) - Sili, Hallia
Lenlo (1) - Besie

Besie (1) - Alanna

Sili (1) - Lizabeth

 
 
Not Voting (2): Katiora, Lenlo
 
 
Deadline: Wednesday, June 15th, 10:30 PM CDT
 

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

Alright. Sorry ive been mia. Been really busy these last 32 hours. Today has not been a good day. :(

 

Saw Liz's case on Sili. I also saw his response. I really really want him to be a wolf... but I also really dont want to be wrong.

 

 Still learning toward lynching Besie today.

Can't say I understand where your head's at from just this.

 

 

I can't remember right now why you want to lynch Besie either, but I think I'm just forgetting that.

 

I really want you to be a wolf so my pride can say F U.

 

But id rather win the game then lynch you just to satiate my pride. Thats what thats saying.

 

Well I think your pride can be satisfied by your alignment =)

 

So you're conflicted I take it. One part of you wants to be right? The other part thinks odds are you're wrong?

 

Makes sense if so. I've been in a similar situation with you but we all have to get over our biases at some point if we want to win. *shrug*

 

I think Liz is a wolf. I believe I've explained why. What are your thoughts on Lizabeth?

[Katiora]

*facedesk* I had quoted like 20 posts from d1 and was typing up this long thing... and i had to close my window because someone came over to my desk *cries* 

 

 

So what it amounted to was... Lenlo was on Clov's crap list from early in the game... Even when no one else was on  Lenlo, Clov was. Now this could be a thing where Clov could say "oh I just knew he was a wolf and I've been on him since day 1 which wouldn't surprise me. But then he voted him, with no one else REALLY going there. I don't see Clov as the kind of wolf that does that from what you all have said about how he is... I also saw Alanna join in on that really quick afterwards, then jump back off a bit lately... not sure what to think about that. 

 

 

There were some other things that hit me. Zander was hard on wish. I think that's the main reason why he died... but he also tinfoiled on "WHAT IF" Clov and Liz are in together... and i just wonder if that's not what put the nail in the coffin for him. What if he was suspicious on 3 of the 4 mafia? 

 

 

I wish I still had my stuff... There were some other quotes I wanted to sort through and get ya'lls opinions on, however it was something like 142 pages of stuff i went through to get relevant quotes and I don't have time to do that again... it literally took me like 4 hours or more. I feel lost and depressed. Long story short I really am suspicious of Liz the most. Clov was very wishy washy about her. There was one post I quoted where he was like... well liz DOES do this but I don't know. She's kinda not towny but I could see her as town... blah blah blah. Then him defending her on "what kind of wolf would say they meant to vote for the dead towny, I can't ever see her being wolf after that". which to me is mehhhhh looking back.