Mats Spear.

[grump]

He asked for protection,memorys. and out of there. Where does the spear fit in , what is its final function?

[Guest Abaddon]

Self protection?

[Turgon]

Isn't his spear a tie-in to his fate with the seanchan? Tuon seems very interested in his spear when she first sees it.

[Guest Abaddon]

It could be, the sword has ravens inscribed upon the blade, and the senchean view ravens as the imperial animal.

[grump]

I wondered if maybe since it came from the finns that it might have some special use or power when he gets in the tower?

[Guest Abaddon]

Could be the key, seeing as when perrin see's the tower in his wolfdream it has no door.

[PrinceOfRavens]

nope.... i dont think the spear is bronze

 

you have to make a sign with a Bronze dagger

[Guest Abaddon]

Where does it say that??

[dragonlover]

bridget told oliver and oliver tells mat about it when he reads thoms letter

[PrinceOfRavens]

you have to make a sign with a bronze dagger....

[RobertAlexWillis]

Its the sign that is at the beginning of the Aelfinn/Eelfinn chapters.

 

 

 

(Just the triangle and the squiggly ... you don't actually have to draw the snake and fox heads)

[Yuril Strongbow]

IF I were to hazaed a guess on Matts's spear is that it is a power wrought item form the age of legends.

I think it is probley made out of the same Material that the Habor chain to the White tower was turned into.

[SI]

I dont have my book handy but wasn't the spear mentioned before he went throw the doorway as one of the things sitting in rhuidean?

[Guest Barmacral]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that the process to make the unbreakable weapons is different from the process of making heartstone, as heartstone becomes a different material, and yet the weapons are still steel.

[shred_jackson666]

the spear could be protection but also after goin to see the finns isnt that when his luck started? that could have something to do with his protection seein' as his luck has saved him on numerous accounts

[Guest Barmacral]

No, his luck started before then, right after he was healed by the Aes Sedai in TDR.

[Guest Abaddon]

I always thought that mats luck was attributed to the cursed dagger, wasnt it?

[Roxinos]

In response to Barmacral:

 

There is a special Talent that makes metals unbreakable. It is called "Aligning the Matrix".

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/main/true_source/weaves.html

 

Also, I don't remember too well, but I'm sure that Mat's luck had always been unbelievably good. Even before the events of the series. It just got better.

 

Some also believe that his luck is his manifestation of his being ta'veren.

[Guest Barmacral]

Thanks Roxinos,

 

And as far as Mat's luck goes, he was always lucky, this is said more than once in the series, but he was Ta'veran when Moiraine visited him in Emonds Field, and he had the dagger for book one, and the beginning and final parts of book two, and yet his luck doesn't truly shine until book three, after he is healed.

 

Of course, his luck could also be tied to the Horn, but personally I doubt it.

[Roxinos]

Sure, he'd always been ta'veren, however, we both know that his molding of the Pattern around him didn't really take hold until later. Just like Rand had always been ta'veren, but it wasn't until after tEotW that he truly began to affect the Pattern (chance manipulated beyond all logic, the incredible attraction of bubbles of evil, etc.)

 

His being ta'veren seems a much more reasonable answer to his abnormal luck than saying when it started. Him being Healed from his bond with the dagger doesn't make sense as to why it would bring out his extreme luck.

[Mathias]

I don't think Mat's luck is tied to the Horn. The Horn almost takes a back seat in the series after Flame and isn't a huge part of Mat's storyline. I think his real luck began with the dagger. Before that, I think, he was more known as a trouble maker, which would mean he was always getting caught, which would mean he wasn't that lucky.

 

The healing bit comes in, I think, in that the Aeis Sedai couldn't totally heal Mat from the damge done by the dagger. Thus, it seems possible that the part they couldn't heal could continue to be contributing to his good luck.

 

Whatever the case, I think his luck surpasses general run-of-the-mill good luck and passes into the realm of supernatural assistance. That could just be his being ta'veren, but Rand, for one, certainly doesn't have that great of luck so I don't think ta'veren is the sole reason.

 

This just occurred to me: Did Mat play dice, and win, at all in the series prior to his contact with the dagger?

[Guest Barmacral]

Mat did do some dice games in TGH, however, I don't recall how much luckier than the rest he ever was, and there is the very beginning of TDR when Hurin comments on how they always gambled for coppers... not enough evidence either way to say whether or not his luck was in.

 

And from what I understand, a person is not always ta'veren, but rather that a person becomes ta'veren at a certain point of their life, and after the sway of events that they were supposed to effect have come to pass, they will go back to being normal. If this is the case, then I suspect that Mat Rand and Perrin became Ta'veren shortly before Moiraine showed up in Emonds Field. (Well, Mat and Perrin in any case, Rand was probably always Ta'veren)

[bradg2010]

Quote Mathias:

"Whatever the case, I think his luck surpasses general run-of-the-mill good luck and passes into the realm of supernatural assistance. That could just be his being ta'veren, but Rand, for one, certainly doesn't have that great of luck so I don't think ta'veren is the sole reason."

 

Ok first off Rand is lucky. In TGH (p.150) he pulls his horse around just before an arrow streaks through where he used to be and instead scratches the Amyrlin and kills someone else. In PoD he leaves his rooms just before they are completely destroyed by Osangar and the rogue asha'man. Those are just two instances where he was very lucky not to die. Rand, who is more powerfully Ta'veren seems to have a greater effect on everyone surrounding him than mat does. i.e. he's near some people dicing and suddenly no one rolls anything but 5 sixes. I'm fairly confident mat's luck is just part of his being ta'veren. He speculates that it has something to do with the healing or dagger but thats just because at the time he's still in complete denial that he IS tav'eren. As mat became more powerfully ta'veren his luck got better. Just like rand. Originally mat only "won more than he lost " and rand had some wild adventures like meeting elayne and gawn but as the story progresses and they become a bigger part of the pattern their "twisting of fate" seems to increase as well. As in suddenly rand can walk into a town and every single person gets married while mat can walk into an inn and never lose at dice.

 

Quote Barmacral:

"Mat did do some dice games in TGH, however, I don't recall how much luckier than the rest he ever was, and there is the very beginning of TDR when Hurin comments on how they always gambled for coppers... not enough evidence either way to say whether or not his luck was in."

 

Actually it does imply that his luck was in.

TDR- "We gambled for coppers, Nynaeve, and he(Hurin) would not even do that after a while."

This implies that mat won much more than hurin did.

 

Also in The Great Hunt mat dices with the shienarans and wins much more than he loses.

Barmacral

"And from what I understand, a person is not always ta'veren, but rather that a person becomes ta'veren at a certain point of their life, and after the sway of events that they were supposed to effect have come to pass, they will go back to being normal. If this is the case, then I suspect that Mat Rand and Perrin became Ta'veren shortly before Moiraine showed up in Emonds Field. (Well, Mat and Perrin in any case, Rand was probably always Ta'veren)"

 

There is no evidence anywhere that rand was always ta'veren. I suppose someone could make the argument that he could have been since the pattern would want to ensure he lived seeing ah how important he would be to the whole world, but then again that would mean mat and perrin were also always ta'veren as well since they are also crucial to the pattern. I just don't know.

[Mathias]

Rand is SO lucky that he is blind, one-handed, has two festering wounds in his side, that not only can't be healed, are fighting each other... let's see what else...

 

I think there is a line between plot conventions that will allow the story to continue by keeping the hero alive, and ta'veren influenced good luck. But, even in the instance of ta'veren coming into play in terms of Rand's life being saved, the pattern's, and maybe the Creator's, will would hardly be served if the main catalyst for change were toasted before he/she/it performed its task.

 

That is still different than Mat's case, where he personally has unnaturally good luck. All ta'veren effect those around them (I think Perrin causes weddings too in the Dragon Reborn)

[PrinceOfRavens]

actually ONLY min is to blame for rands arm and eyes... Rand didnt jump away cause min was behind him. And min was so selfish and stubborn to insist to go :x