Shai'tan

[Silver]

So, how does everybody know his name if nobody ever says it? I doubt it's any widely read books and if spoken, in the presence of a very small audience.

 

Granted, city folk would probably have a better chance of knowing the name. But what about Two Rivers? I doubt any person would teach their kid that name not to mention where anybody on the Women's Circle can hear it.

 

Plus there's the additional thought that anybody who has said the name once probably wouldn't want to do it again since there are visible bad luck reprecussions to doing so.

 

So, how does everybody seem to know the forbidden name?

[Zyrshnikashnu]

I ponder this every time I see the name, but I've so far been unable to figure it out.

[RobertAlexWillis]

So, how does everybody know his name if nobody ever says it?

 

People do say it. They're just not supposed to. But people do what they're not supposed to do all the time. Its the nature of people.

 

Look ... numerous cultures in the real world have had taboo words or phrases. So, how do we know about them? Because people really did keep saying them, and recording them in other ways.

 

Jordan acknowledges this obliquely with the anecdote about Bili Congar naming the Dark One. I seriously doubt Bili Congar is the only one in Randland to do it.

 

We probably get a disproportionate view of its effects through Rand al'Thor using it. When he uses it, the world spins, he goes batty, or whatever. Thats because ol' Shai'tan is really concentrating on Rand. Its probably not that bad in it's effects on other people.

 

Also, its probably worse to say it now than it has been in the past, since the seals are very, very weak, allowing Shai'tan to touch the world more easily.

[Silver]

yeah, i thought about that but the words in our world are just taboo. in randland world, saying the name has an actual, negative effect.

 

now i may be over estimating some peoples abilities but if somebody knows somethings bad, does it any ways and has a bad thing happen to them, they generally won't do it anymore :P

 

and then you have the observer of the action, he sees the person do something bad and the person had bad stuff happen back. you'd think the observer would realize not to say it. but lets say they the do say it once, it would be either in front of a very small audience or none at all.

 

with such slow and limited use of the word, how can practically everybody know the name

[kobra_khan69]

They write it down and tell their kids NEVER to say it out loud or bad things will happen to them.

 

 

LOL its just a theory but it is a definite possibility.

[Thor]

Nah, it's because some punk always say it out thinking that he's untouchable. Then other people pick it up.

[Tenshin_Xo]

Thats how Mat at least heard it. He baited Bili Congar into saying it since, in Congar fashion, he was talking about how he believed the DO didn't exist. I think it was Nynaeve who pointed out that just after Bili named the DO cutworm or some such pestilence got into his fields.

[Silver]

i guess i just can't believe that many people in randland are so stupid. like you see somebody jab a pin into their hand. you know they injured themselves and they're bleeding. now would you jab a pin into his own hand to see if the same thing happened even though you know it will? :roll:

[RobertAlexWillis]

now i may be over estimating some peoples abilities but if somebody knows somethings bad, does it any ways and has a bad thing happen to them, they generally won't do it anymore

 

Um .... Smoking?

 

People are stupid.

[Zyrshnikashnu]

Nicotine is addictive. Bad luck isn't. ;)

[Tenshin_Xo]

Nah, but stupidity is. ;) Its a good thing Moiraine had that nicotene patch in her palm when she slapped Rand for naming the DO.

[Hero of Satsuma]

I think what he is trying to say is that everyone knows that smoking is bad but people start smoking anyway.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Exactly. You're not addicted to nicotine the first time you smoke. People wouldn't have to say it alot.

 

Besides, I think that the actual effect in the books is the worst its been for a long, long time, because the seals are weak. Also, the people we see are the ones the Shai'tan is concentrating on. The effect probably isn't that bad for the majority of the people who say it, and they can rationalize it away.

[Guest Abaddon]

Exactly, think of it this way as well. People know that robbing a bank is ilegal, and they understand the ramifications of robbing a bank, and they still do it. Why? because they dont care about any eventual consequences.

[Silver]

yeah, but those examples give a positive effect as well. smoking gives some kind of euphoric effect (i assume, never smoked before) and robbing a bank gets you money :P

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well, some people probably get a thrill out of saying "Shai'tan", either in response to a dare, or to prove they're not afraid, or just from doing something forbidden.

[Zyrshnikashnu]

But the question is how they learned that name. In EotW, we get the impression that nobody in the Two Rivers ever says it, yet they all know it. You'd think it'd be weeded out of the vocabulary over 3,000+ years.

[RobertAlexWillis]

You'd think it'd be weeded out of the vocabulary over 3,000+ years.

 

Thats the whole point. It doesn't get weeded out, because there are always several like Bili Congar in any community, in every generation.

[Silver]

but the people like him are few in a large community. do they really say it often enough for the entire community to know it? and i'm going to assume that when they do say it it's to a very small audience

[RobertAlexWillis]

but the people like him are few in a large community. do they really say it often enough for the entire community to know it? and i'm going to assume that when they do say it it's to a very small audience

 

The way the boys remembered it, it seemed like everyone knew about it. And it probably gets done more often in secret clubs or out by the back fence, kind of the equivalent of smoking in the boys room.

 

People always do taboo things. Otherwise no taboo would ever last more than one generation.