[Standard] Chrono Trigger Mafia - Town wins Day 5!

[Yates]

 

I'm also a little worried about AJ. It's been a while but he seems off as well. Not going to expand on that at this point in time.

 

Can you guys touch on your AJ reads please.  Id like to see what it is you guys are seeing irt to AJ.

 

Yup.

 

I know I haven't played here in a while but this game isn't playing out how I would expect. Dice isn't acting like Dice, you aren't a lolercoaster spam poster [TM], Hally tried disarming me with her first post [one of her first posts?], and Verb isn't posting spidey.

 

BUT the thing that sticks out to me the most is AJ's play. Through that post [and as of the post I'm quoting here], AJ has been remarkably non-confrontational. Even where he's challenging people [like the Nolder thing comes to mind] I'm not really seeing any "teeth" in his handling of what should be suspects. I was thinking maybe it was early in the game and he was feeling out the game state given he hasn't played with me, Verb, or Leelou in a while [part of the reason I was convinced to play was because it was the return of the later two] but I don't think that's it. I have a "playing to the crowd" scum tell I like to use that's pretty effective and he's precariously close to tripping that red flag.

 

I'm not ready to call him scum because there are a number of possible reasons for him to be playing this way but he has my attention.

[Verbal32]

 

 

Why are we talking about tone reading as if it's a foreign concept?

We aren't?  Nobody is saying it is bad, and we all know what it is.  I don't know why you felt the need to ask this question, though?

Mostly because I don't get your line of questioning or what you think you're going to accomplish with it.

 

Do you think it's alignment indicative for Dice, or do you just disagree with the premise in general?

 

 

Mostly that.

 

 

 

 

I'd like to double down on my Tina vote and call for more votes on her.

She didn't even react when I voted her, completely ignored it.

Thought maybe she just missed it but she ended up posting more later so I don't see how she could have.

 

Ignoring the vote reads to me like she's nervous and doesn't want to discuss buddying.

Maybe I actually hit the nail on the head there lol who knows?

Anyway if I'm right more votes will obviously make her more nervous and force her to address it.

 

Anyone with me?

 

I'm pretty sure she did address this.

 

You should all change your avatars to Mario Kart characters.

 

Do it.

 

Don't tell me what to do!!!!

 

@Nolder - Tina did address your vote fwiw.

 

That said its a wagon I could potentially get behind.

 

Did you have a reason to suss Tina or is this just to start a wagon?

 

 

This bothered me, and subsequent posts have made it worse.  (not for you, Z)

 

 

 

 

I'm not protecting Tina, I'm just making sure your facts are straight bro. Why would I join a wagon based on a case that isn't even factual?

 

I have explained already I had a light suss on Tina that isn't related to anything you're talking about. My current vote is on Verb and I'm waiting on some responses from him before I decide what I want to do from there.

 

I'm not sure I recall this.  I think your explanations came pouring in once Nolder started in on you.  At first I totally agreed with your initial stance on Nolder misreading Tina's post.......but the way you defended yourself seems a little....frantic.  You then pushed out in multiple directions in what looks to be an attempt to deflect attention elsewhere.

 

 

 

I want to see Nolder respond to my questions. That was a pretty bad mistake he made earlier and I know it's kind of his scum play to pull stuff like that. Act confused, etc.

 

I would agree with Nolder's scum play there, but he's explained how he misread Tina's post and how it wasn't clear for him.....and reading the exchange again, I can kinda see where he's coming from.

[Verbal32]

Summary:  I've got a town lean on Nolder and based on his responses, a scum lean on AJ.  I feel like Zander had some of the same observations that I did when I read through, but I haven't landed on a read for him yet.

 

 

[v]AJ[/v]

[Yates]

In general, not feeling too bad, so prolly town in my head, are the following people: AJ, Turin, Nolder, Zander, Dice.

Great. I only disagree with the people in red.  

 

I don't understand how you have ANY of those 4 in your Town pile based on the current game state never mind ALL four.  Like, I think all 4 of them will admit in thread that they aren't playing to their usual meta.  I know Zander, for one, has already stated as much in thread and AJ and Dice more or less hinted at it as well.

 

So, uh, can you expand on these Town reads a bit?  For a friend?

[Verbal32]

How is my post different than others in the game. For example Dice answer to my vote? 

 

hi Tina hugs  hows u?

 

 

Do i have to lynch you this game?

 

Why did you decide to vote me?

 

 

Here is the post from Tina that Nolder misread.  While I know it was literally the next post, she does ask the question directly after quoting Dice.....so I can understand Nolder missing that.

 

Honestly this looks to me like Nolder casing AJ based on something that wasn't actually true, but AJ responding in a way that exposed himself.

[Verbal32]

 

In general, not feeling too bad, so prolly town in my head, are the following people: AJ, Turin, Nolder, Zander, Dice.

Great. I only disagree with the people in red.  

 

I don't understand how you have ANY of those 4 in your Town pile based on the current game state never mind ALL four.  Like, I think all 4 of them will admit in thread that they aren't playing to their usual meta.  I know Zander, for one, has already stated as much in thread and AJ and Dice more or less hinted at it as well.

 

So, uh, can you expand on these Town reads a bit?  For a friend?

 

 

I really think Nolder is town here, broseph.

[Yates]

 

I dont see Town!Dice, I see Neutral!Dice. And Neutral!Dice is not a normal thing to see imo. 

My last game he did start village and become a mafia recruiter though, so I  might just be off on him.

 

 

I understand what you're saying here in a generic sense. I don't see the trouble people are having with Dice atm, but perhaps it's my meta on him that's outdated at this point.

 

This actually piggybacks off my post above. What is your "outdated" meta on Dice? Because my Dice meta may also be outdated but I'm pretty sure I have a later version if you think this looks anything like "normal" Town Dice.

[Yates]

I really think Nolder is town here, broseph.

I'm leaning that way myself as of some later posts - as in posts that came after Thane's reads list - but I don't see how he got there at the time. Also, to be clear, me having them in red in that post doesn't mean they are scum reads. It just means they are people not playing to their usual meta [though Nolder actually may be playing to his usual meta in retrospect] and people I hadn't resolved yet.

[Yates]

Zander - post 257 is more like what I would expect from a Town AJ.

 

Maybe you're right, but regardless she wasn't clear. That's not my fault.

 

She was pretty clear after Turin asked her for clarification imo.

 

So that's YOUR fault for not reading carefully enough.

 

Speaking out in her defense instead of just leaving her to defend herself is what I would consider protecting her.

That's why I said it was weird because I don't understand why TownAJ wouldn't just let Tina defend herself.

 

Any defense of Tina was done through proxy by pointing out the wrongness in your case.

 

You said she didn't respond to you. I corrected you, thus rebutting your argument. Get your facts straight.

 

 

That post stands in fairly sharp contrast to what I had been seeing as of the post you had asked me about.

[Verbal32]

Pretty random.

 

Like idk why she would want his analysis on me specifically atp?

 

Or why it came up in general

 

 

 

Just generally kind of a weird topic to bring up.

 

Someone else asked why? So I don´t have to. 

 

Pretty random.

 

Like idk why she would want his analysis on me specifically atp?

 

Or why it came up in general

 

I was talking to Dice and I remember him saying that he could read you well and managed to catch you as mafia after just one post. There are several people in this game that are good at reading each other and I think it´s good to hear what they have to say. 

 

current spot reads

 

Leelou Town 

 

Aj  probably town

 

So here is the first impression. I´ll see what you think later. (I had thought I would wake up to more pages and more to judge from. Not that I´m complaining, fewer pages will make it easier for me to play.)

 

 

 

 

[v]Tina[/v]

 

Cuz I feel like it. 

 

 

*hugs Leelou*

 

Cuz I feel like it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty random.

 

Like idk why she would want his analysis on me specifically atp?

 

Or why it came up in general

I was talking to Dice and I remember him saying that he could read you well and managed to catch you as mafia after just one post. There are several people in this game that are good at reading each other and I think it´s good to hear what they have to say.

Fair response. I just found it strange to ask about me only at that time.

 

And ftr, I was actually a SK in that game

 

 

 

 

To AJ:

 

I'm not really liking Dice right now about his LOL Zander push. Felt like using a jokey thing to fuel a real push. would like to hear what he has to say about it. 

 

Not much else has caught my eye. I thought something was weird about Tina but that was me misunderstanding. I actually am leaning a bit more town with her right now because she is asking real questions. It is small but there. 

 

most of the rest of it seems to be just joking about. 

 

Wary of you as always. but nothing to justify it yet, so just watching. 

 

How about you?

I see the point you make on Dice, though I think it's kind of become a running joke from previous games? Btw, I won't answer for Dice the question you asked earlier but I'm pretty sure that I could lol. He seems okay to me for now. I'll reevaluate once we move out of the joking phase.

 

Tina gave me a slight ping for her question earlier but we'll see as she progresses. I feel pretty confident in my ability to sniff her out as scum if that's the case.

 

I get a general good vibe from Leelou.

 

Zander is more quiet than I'm used to but that could be his new play style?

 

Lenlo gave me a slight ping earlier which is probably nothing but I want to see more out of him.

 

 

@AJ:  I just don't see how Tina's question to (Dice I think) would still ping you after her response, which you labeled as "fair".

 

It really seems like you're making something out of nothing in order to defend against Nolder.  Nolder's attack was poor based on his reading of Tina's post, but I think your response to that attack was even worse.  Like, he was going after Tina, and then you kinda just jumped in front.  Really weird.

[Verbal32]

and Verb isn't posting spidey.

 

Spidey is blocked at work now.  Many tears were shed for this.

[Verbal32]

 

How is my post different than others in the game. For example Dice answer to my vote? 

 

hi Tina hugs  hows u?

 

 

Do i have to lynch you this game?

 

Why did you decide to vote me?

 

 

Here is the post from Tina that Nolder misread.  While I know it was literally the next post, she does ask the question directly after quoting Dice.....so I can understand Nolder missing that.

 

Honestly this looks to me like Nolder casing AJ based on something that wasn't actually true, but AJ responding in a way that exposed himself.

 

 

Correction:  Nolder voted Tina for something that was inaccurate, but then AJ did his thang.

[Zander?]

In general, not feeling too bad, so prolly town in my head, are the following people: AJ, Turin, Nolder, Zander, Dice.

 

Will need some more on the other people, haven't made up my mind about them

 

Can you expand a bit on these reads Thane?

 

In both of your last games, one as Scum and one as Town, you fired reads pretty early.  I like to see some reasoning on these so I can better read your slot.  Especially since you fooled me as Scum and I mislynched you as Town.

 

 

 

 

I just don't think you're reading very carefully Nolder.

 

She's quoting Dice in that post as an example to show that she's not the only person to respond in a "buddying" like way. It's kind of a "why me" question but it's a legitimate point irt you not reacting similarly to Dice after she voted him.

Maybe you're right, but regardless she wasn't clear. That's not my fault.

 

Look, I acknowledge you dont read the thread all that closely sometimes, but she answered and when people asked what she was talking about, she said you. Just cause she never directly quoted you doesnt me she didnt answer it.

 

 

This is a good point from Lenlo. I can't believe Im about to say this but after his catch up, I dont want to vote him today.

 

Am I sick?  Is the world ending?  I don't understand life anymore.

 

 

 

 

Earlier when I asked Turin if he had any reads he said he had Tina as a town lean because "she was asking real questions" I didn't really probe at the time but after looking at her post again to fact check myself in case I was the one mistaken regarding Nolder's argument, I realized what Turin was talking about. The question actually is pretty sharp and it's something I'd like Nolder to answer.

 

The timing bugged me, as I've said. It also a little meta based because I don't think Tina is particularly comfortable playing as scum and I've caught her before in the past after awkward exchanges. It just weirded me out, I really can't explain it better.

This sounds like you agree with me. But you defended her.

 

You want to make up your mind and stop playing both sides of this situation?

 

 

Can you expand a bit on this.  Im looking for something and I want to hear you elaborate please.

 

Thanks Len, that's much better.

 

 

Tinas on a clock to prove herself town to me, simply because I dont think she can keep up a good wolf game of fooling everyone.

 

That's fair. I'm not exactly town reading her either and I think my reservations are well noted.

 

I dont see Town!Dice, I see Neutral!Dice. And Neutral!Dice is not a normal thing to see imo. 

My last game he did start village and become a mafia recruiter though, so I  might just be off on him. 

 

 

I understand what you're saying here in a generic sense. I don't see the trouble people are having with Dice atm, but perhaps it's my meta on him that's outdated at this point.

 

 

I dont think youve been gone that long that you would now have trouble reading Dice.  I mean irt to Dice, you cant teach an old dog new tricks right?

 

lololololololol

 

 

 

Lenlo/Verb are on that fringe of scum range for me.

 

Neither have really done anything constructive, Lenlo especially so. This looks bad after seeing how he's played in our more recent games.

 

Verb has asked some game play-ish questions but I don't think they were truly progressive.

 

Atp I don't think they are bad wagon options.

 

I want to see Nolder respond to my questions. That was a pretty bad mistake he made earlier and I know it's kind of his scum play to pull stuff like that. Act confused, etc.

 

I'm not confused. Interesting that you're trying to discredit me now that I've voted you though.

 

It's not discrediting if my statement is true regarding your meta.

 

It's not really a secret that you play dumb as scum - I've outed you multiple times over this specific thing.

 

 

 

Can someone with more knowledge of Nolder and AJ answer me this, do either Scum!AJ and Scum!Nolder have a tendency to bus?

[Verbal32]

 

I really think Nolder is town here, broseph.

I'm leaning that way myself as of some later posts - as in posts that came after Thane's reads list - but I don't see how he got there at the time. Also, to be clear, me having them in red in that post doesn't mean they are scum reads. It just means they are people not playing to their usual meta [though Nolder actually may be playing to his usual meta in retrospect] and people I hadn't resolved yet.

 

 

When in doubt, ignore meta and judge based on their play in this game.  I feel like I say this a lot to people recently, and I'm not sure where we collectively decided that meta should guide our progression on people.

 

It loos like you're doing the bolded above, so that's cool.  I just get a little worried when discussions about past/current meta and how they are/aren't playing to it.

[Yates]

On reread I like his game even less than I did before. I think he latched onto the joke thing with Z as his "something" to go on about but he knows it isn't really valid so isn't giving it his all. More like the soft back and forth with Tina. If both hadn't happened this same game day I might not be so troubled.

 

vote: Dice

I have to think about this post. There is a LOT of spin in this narrative. I'd like to see Dice respond before giving my thoughts.

[Verbal32]

*looks

[Andrej]

Zander might be scum.

[Andrej]

Turin could be scum after that case, but Turin does narrative spin regardless. He's like Despot in that regard, as much as he'll hate that comparison.

[Verbal32]

Turin could be scum after that case, but Turin does narrative spin regardless. He's like Despot in that regard, as much as he'll hate that comparison.

 

Who wouldn't?

 

lol

[Yates]

I just get a little worried when discussions about past/current meta and how they are/aren't playing to it.

I don't want to bog the thread down in theory talk. BUT I will say that there is a "comfort" in seeing someone play the way you would EXPECT them to play as Town. Obviously I don't base my reads entirely on meta. However, meta absolutely informs my reads. That said, when people are playing in a way you don't expect? That comfort level is diminished and I feel like it takes more WORK to achieve a read. And in the case of Thane's reads post, I would like to see him show me how he achieved those reads because they seem to have come a lot easier for him than they are for me.

[Zander?]

 

 

Maybe you're right, but regardless she wasn't clear. That's not my fault.

 

She was pretty clear after Turin asked her for clarification imo.

 

So that's YOUR fault for not reading carefully enough.

 

Speaking out in her defense instead of just leaving her to defend herself is what I would consider protecting her.

That's why I said it was weird because I don't understand why TownAJ wouldn't just let Tina defend herself.

 

Any defense of Tina was done through proxy by pointing out the wrongness in your case.

 

You said she didn't respond to you. I corrected you, thus rebutting your argument. Get your facts straight.

 

As long as we're getting our facts straight you said it's a wagon you could get behind.

You want to clarify that for everyone?

 

 

 

Bro, you quoted it as your example for how I was agreeing with you.

 

Zander asked me why I bothered me, so I reiterated for like the second or third time.

 

Aj did explain it but I can also see where Nolder is coming from irt Tina.  This whole back and forth is reading awkward to me.

 

 

These posts from Hallia read odd to me.

 

 

 

I wanna give spot reads -

 

Yates - town

 

Zander & AJ - townish

Hallia gives her "spot reads" because she wants to. 

 

Leelou, you did notice he had a space between my actual reads right?

Not sure what this means. There is no discernible difference in the formatting of the lines that I can see.

Are you confirming that your Yates read is a joke but that your Z & AJ reads are legit???

 

@AJ - I responded, he asked if I was legit about him being town. It was just an "I missed you."

apparently Yates is not a town read after all. There isn't really any indication that it was a joke. Feels deceptive.

 

Yes, Yates' was.

 

 

 

Dice, how do you have "tone" reads already? Regardless of alignment, people are messing around to begin with......yet you're reading them based on tone?

You can easily read tone from joking. Some people do it poorly as x-alignment, or differently, and so it is a good place to start.

 

This is general theory talk. My 2pence is that there are always things to look for and that everything that is put in thread is done for some purpose. 

 

I guess you do you in this case.

 

[v] Nolder [/v] I didn't like the whole Tina thing. For the moment I will be here.

Odd phrasing. here. Do you plan to move prior to DL? 

 

 

 

 

Hallia can you  give your reasoning for why you would put Yates as Town (jokingly) without actually feeling it to be true?

 

Ya I asked this to.  Id like to see an explanation as well.

 

 

Dice:  

 

 

 

 

 

hi Tina hugs  hows u?

 

 

Do i have to lynch you this game?

 

*hugs*

 

I´m fine. I´m having a week off. Wonderful. You?

 

It depends on your alignment. If you are town you should not lynch me. 

 

 

 

im good.

 

Right so no lynching tina then :D  lets smash the wolves together then hun

 

This little bit was prefaced by Tina voting Dice with basically no reason and then asking him for his take on AJ in what read to me as a joking manner...

Dice's response reads as pure buddying to me. Hugs in direct response to the vote but with a bit of bite. Tina basically claims "Town" at him and he immediately goes back to treating her as town. Seems weird to me. 

 

shes right ive said that but yeah bit odd to bring up.

 

if left at   want to see ure intial impressions then no problem

Here he goes back to casting a bit of shade and shifts the conversation toward the theory of "spot reads".  

 

Dice What is your actual current read on Tina? 

AJ  should we lynch Zander?

 

it has all sorts of benefits.....

Now He shifts toward the "joke" push on Zander. Again getting away from the Tina interaction.

 

a)  it will lower the size of the game significantly

 

b) it would stop any possible challenge to your "King of Gifs" title

 

c) it will drive him NUTS and that will give me fun for weeks

 

d) it will stop those damned lols before they gain traction.

 

 

 

so  you in AJ?

All bad reasons. This is at best talking about nothing to be seen talking and at worst an attempt to get  a form of policy lynch going. 

 

 

Lol nah.

 

If you have legitimate reasons to think he's scum I'll be happy to lynch him, but I'm good on the PL thing.

 

 

not policy lynch per se     just a fun idea lol

 

AJ doesn't bite. Dice backs off calling it "just a fun idea".  Hypothetical Dice: If AJ had agreed to vote Z, what would it have meant to your read on him? and would you have joined him?

 

 

 

 

AJ should we lynch Zander?

 

it has all sorts of benefits.....

What for?

 

a)  it will lower the size of the game significantly

 

b) it would stop any possible challenge to your "King of Gifs" title

 

c) it will drive him NUTS and that will give me fun for weeks

 

d) it will stop those damned lols before they gain traction.

 

 

 

so  you in AJ?

 

Dice. did you base your AJ read on his response to this query? 

 

 

not that alone   those spot reads are tone based. I loved leelous tone and i think ajs is good 

 

To AJ:

 

I'm not really liking Dice right now about his LOL Zander push. Felt like using a jokey thing to fuel a real push. would like to hear what he has to say about it. 

 

Not much else has caught my eye. I thought something was weird about Tina but that was me misunderstanding. I actually am leaning a bit more town with her right now because she is asking real questions. It is small but there. 

 

most of the rest of it seems to be just joking about. 

 

Wary of you as always. but nothing to justify it yet, so just watching. 

 

How about you? 

 

its an on going joke from clovs last game where i got the dead pizza to kill town zander

 

he even referred to it where he said about shooting him in the back

 

 

 

I'm not really liking Dice right now about his LOL Zander push. Felt like using a jokey thing to fuel a real push. would like to hear what he has to say about it.

I was going to post a one-liner but this is where I'm at as well. Dice is currently striking me as un-Dice-like. It's almost like he's trying to intentionally shed a particular meta device we currently use to find scum Dice vs town Dice but he isn't comfortable in it.

 

Cory would know what I mean. It's his gif...

 

 

nope  dice is just posting and having fun.

 

and if it was a real push thered be a vote in there somewhere.

 

In both of these responses Dice basically says "it was all a joke, LOL. Nothing to see here." Further accenting it in saying if it was a real push there would have been a vote in there. Maybe from Town!Dice there would be. The fact there isn't is part of what is bothering me about it. Especially since I don't think Dice was/is voting anyone right now. 

 

 

 

On reread I like his game even less than I did before. I think he latched onto the joke thing with Z as his "something" to go on about but he knows it isn't really valid so isn't giving it his all. More like the soft back and forth with Tina. If both hadn't happened this same game day I might not be so troubled.

 

vote: Dice

 

Turin trending up for me.  He's seeing what I am as well.

[Yates]

He's like Despot in that regard, as much as he'll hate that comparison.

I get what you are saying. I wasn't aware that Turin did that. I wonder if Turin agrees that he is a narrative player??

[Andrej]

Once again - my whole intent was to make Nolder recognize that the reason he doubled down wasn't true. I stated it passively at first, and even showed him a quote, to then which then which he immediately attacked me over. My response, if anything, was a bit emotive as I ramped up in a sort of "are you kidding me?" way.

 

I had my own reasons to be leery of Tina, unrelated to Nolder, which is why I said I could support it.

 

I used "fair" to describe her response for a reason. I didn't say it was good or it was bad. That's basically the only way she could answer my question reasonably and I have consistently maintained that her doing it in the first place has bugged me. Tina doing weird stuff = scum!Tina in my experience.

[Verbal32]

 

I just get a little worried when discussions about past/current meta and how they are/aren't playing to it.

I don't want to bog the thread down in theory talk. BUT I will say that there is a "comfort" in seeing someone play the way you would EXPECT them to play as Town. Obviously I don't base my reads entirely on meta. However, meta absolutely informs my reads. That said, when people are playing in a way you don't expect? That comfort level is diminished and I feel like it takes more WORK to achieve a read. And in the case of Thane's reads post, I would like to see him show me how he achieved those reads because they seem to have come a lot easier for him than they are for me.

 

 

I sit corrected.

[Zander?]

Dice: I find him scummy. The only thing he has done so far is joking about voting Zander and given "spot reads" and then clarifying/defending spot reads. After my request he agreed with AJ that it was a bit weird. Later he had him as townish because of town. In a vague way. When Turin asked if it was because of certain posts he said it was more the tone. I get that spot reads means tone reads but it felt like he brought him up just because I asked him and with the vague " townish". I don't know how to explain this but it felt he felt forced to say something because of my request.

 

AJ has said Dice looks town but recently he said to Turin that he is not against a Tina or a Dice lynch. Maybe that says more about AJ? Anyway, Dice is suspect for not doing much although posting.

 

Turin: I have a strong town lean on Turin. He tried to understand me and have asked a lot of good questions.

 

Thane: I don't understand his vote on me. Is it a pressure vote for me to get back to the game? Will he unvote now that I'm here? I'm not really getting a scummy feeling because scumThane are usually more spammy as mafia. He could of course have changed his play.

 

Verbal: suspect because of posting without contributing. Asking a lot about spot reads but the answers doesn't seem to get him anywhere.

 

More in next post.

 

I dont know if Tina's actually seeing what others are seeing or just regurgitating what others have already said.