[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Askthepizzaguy]

Zander feels reasonable the wrong way and stubborn the wrong way in that exchange.

 

Reasonable in that he's sitting and discussing it at length with you.

 

Stubborn in that he won't budge from his positions and that his positions wouldn't budge regardless of how the player reacted.

 

The lengthy numbered exchange felt worse from Zander than anything else I saw this game.

 

Zander doesn't feel like that in the previous couple of games. His suspicion was more spread out and he wasn't as interested in calmly discussing it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

 

I'd probably lynch Wish purely because that's where Turin is voting. No other real reason comes to mind.

Turin is voting me because he thinks there's a conspiracy between me, Cass, Laine, and you to get Celeste lynched.

 

He thinks I hard defended her but am also willing to vote her....

 

This is not a good reason.

 

 

I'm going to vote with my village if I can't get my main suspects lynched.

 

 

 

Pizza this is starting to feel like your scum tell with your reads man.  Leaving yourself to back and blame following others as a reason.....im not liking this,

 

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Zander

[Cass]

 

 

 

 

 

then just go out on a branch with your own reasons for reads and thoughts and the like. Townies arent afraid to be wrong or sound bad nearly as often as Scum are my dear.

Well I've given my POE.

Csarmi, Pral, Celeste.

Not sure I trust Turin yet bit time will tell and I don't feel comfortable voting a claimed town PR.

Csarmi and Pral have been catching up ama giving thoughts, which is good. I want to wait on Pral for now since he is catching up and yes he haS a hard time as either alignment when it's busy. When he's town he's a good asset.

Csarmi I haven't read anything that's for me saying "he's town". Still null here could vote here. I'm torn he seems to reading correctly.

Celeste I'm more waiting for content to make a better read on her.

Wish going with the meta read Shad did ands her recent posts she's higher on null pile. I'm now leaning if one of Celeste/Wish is scum that it'd be Celeste. For lack of content. (Kinda pot and kettle).

I could be wrong about my read on Cass or Leno. Those I'm kinda tinfoiling on. Cass because she's fooled before and Leno could easily do the same.

Pizza and Alanna are blue reads for me. I just see them being like this as town. The questions they're asking, the follow through...townie.

WTL Celeste, Pral or Csarmi. Mostly because of POE.

Kaylee - what's meant by the bold wrt Csarmi??

What D1 meta do you have on Pral?

1. I mean I'm town and he thinks I'm town. Thought that was clear.

2. Pral plays catch up as either alignment when it's a busy game. I've said exactly that once already. That's all I have.

 

1. What was the bold meant to say?

2. Ta, still catching up so haven't seen that yet.

 

 

 

 

So then answer the question you've missed twice now (in bold/underline) ...

 

I don't understand the question.

 

Maybe you should try again?  

Your case on me is wrong btw.

 

 

 

ok this is getting out of hand

 

everyone provide top 3 wtl

 

go

 

Still rereading you, buddy.

 

I'm less willing to lynch Kaylee

 

still want a csarmi, Pralaya, Nolder lynch.

 

Nolder is putting in more work than either Pralaya/csarmi, so take it in csarmi>Pralaya>Nolder order.

 

*mindmeld*

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok this is getting out of hand
 
everyone provide top 3 wtl
 
go

Nomi, Celeste, Cass.

 

 

 

 

ok this is getting out of hand

 

everyone provide top 3 wtl

 

go

 

Still rereading you, buddy.

 

I'm less willing to lynch Kaylee

 

still want a csarmi, Pralaya, Nolder lynch.

 

Nolder is putting in more work than either Pralaya/csarmi, so take it in csarmi>Pralaya>Nolder order.

 

 

Not willing to lynch Nolder today despite his annoyances.

 

Agreed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WTL atp:

 

Wish

 

Kay

 

Id have said Turin but claim so prolly Csarmi.

knowing that scum has fake claims, is there a possibility that Turin's is a fake claim?

 

The specific character and role claimed means it's irrelevant even if it were fake.

 

He always dies, so he shouln't be in anyone's POE

 

 

vote wish with me Pizza.  where do you have her?

 

 

I don't have a proper leans list, and the reason why is the original note-taking method I was doing kept falling further and further behind.

 

As such, it was going to always be behind the current events.

 

More useful was to iggy everyone but one player and do ISO of that person.

 

With Turin removed from the POE, I did Celeste, and found very little to dig into. I felt if there's a scum by analysis, the best way is to continue ISO'ing.

 

I pushed Celeste up into a category above Lenlo. And yourself because I'm still not sure. I haven't had time to read Matrix again.

 

This is what I had before falling asleep about 9-10 hours ago.

 

 

 

Askthepizzaguy (again!)
Turin - Doc claim
Shad <----Blue
Cass <---- Skating on early good stuff.
-
Celeste <----Post ISO
Lenlo <---Isn't doing enough to justify being this high. Had good feelings earlier.

Zander <----I want to hard clear, but I can't. It's just going to be generically villager.
Nolder <----He's not acting like his scum game but I can't completely clear him. I gave him points. The best thing about his game is his reads are unique and not copycatted.
Wish <---- Probably was the next one to be ISO'ed because there's nothing really to see when iso'ing Pralaya.
Pralaya <--- Essentially null but had good feelings
-
Csarmi <-----this is prior to even opening the thread this session. I felt like Csarmi was letting others do the work, much like Kaylee.
Laine <----Got bad vibes around the Turin-claim region
Kaylee

 

I have no specific reason not to lynch Wish.

 

I will consolidate onto Wish to ensure a lynch if pressure does not move onto Csarmi.

 

I will consider other candidates but now we're under the clock.

 

 

I'd Fire-drill Cass, because if Cass flips scum it looks excellent for Nolder.

 

So,

 

willing to lynch

 

Csarmi for the main, Wish for consolidation, Cass or Laine are the folks I think fooled me today if they're wolves. Would be willing to YOLO either one right now.

 

 

Pizza, your earlier read of me was GOAT. The only reason I've been 'skating' on my early good stuff is because THAT approach is all I inherently know how to do, and it provided me an opportunity to go learn and practice a new, and hopefully better game approach. I've a long way to go, but certain things are much better already. Just saying. And also, you're freaking me out.

 

 

On the subject of claims

 

 

Let's just assume that Tommy has no objection 

 

http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/XJBYZAGL8Gt

 

At the risk of destroying Csarmi's opinion of my GOATmod status, you'll see I didn't mention at the outset whether or not there were safe fake claims available - I'd decided to allow character claims after I finished the setup and saw that there were 4 or 5 potential town-side characters that weren't used, but hadn't decided whether or not to list the characters available right off the bat or just say "safe fake claims available on request", and forgot to do either until Tommy asked in PM.

 

(I have a complicated history with safe fake claims, dating back to the first game I co-modded with Kaylee in which we went to a LOT of trouble to set up safe fake claims for mafia, reserving the main character of the movie for a bulletproof safe fake claim, and creating flavor names for several unnamed extras - with screenshots - as TOWN characters so that there were enough named characters from the movie to give to the mafia... who never used ANY of them.)

 

 

 

As a side note, if any of you are ever in a game I'm modding or co-modding where character claims are allowed, and safe fake claims aren't mentioned right off the bat in the mafia QT, don't hesitate to ask.  I won't allow character claims in a themed game if there aren't enough extra town-side characters to give safe fake claims if they're wanted.

 

 

 

I'm out most of the day now. So much for sleep! 

[wish-tree]

Zander feels reasonable the wrong way and stubborn the wrong way in that exchange.

 

Reasonable in that he's sitting and discussing it at length with you.

 

Stubborn in that he won't budge from his positions and that his positions wouldn't budge regardless of how the player reacted.

 

The lengthy numbered exchange felt worse from Zander than anything else I saw this game.

 

Zander doesn't feel like that in the previous couple of games. His suspicion was more spread out and he wasn't as interested in calmly discussing it.

 

why is it the wrong way?

[Askthepizzaguy]

The way you keep bringing up my pregame stuff as opposed to dealing with me now is a bad look.

[Zander?]

 

I'm sure he was provided a fake claim.  It's just not an intuitive move for scum to make.  It's an incredibly easy move, just not something I've seen scum think to do.

 

I'm not going to defend him or anything for it.  Specifically Ysera intrigues me in a way that's far too speculative to be applicable, but I'll comment later for yucks once his alignment is known.  Where my head's at I'd still probably lynch Kaylee today.

 

My mind is turning to jelly, but I don't remember getting a lot of support for lynching Kaylee. You're saying you were one of those persons?

 

 

 

I know you mentioned both Kay and Csarmi but where did Wish come from?  Have you sussed her yourself or you just doing this cause Turin and I are.  Which would be strange since you dont trust me....

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Zander feels reasonable the wrong way and stubborn the wrong way in that exchange.

 

Reasonable in that he's sitting and discussing it at length with you.

 

Stubborn in that he won't budge from his positions and that his positions wouldn't budge regardless of how the player reacted.

 

The lengthy numbered exchange felt worse from Zander than anything else I saw this game.

 

Zander doesn't feel like that in the previous couple of games. His suspicion was more spread out and he wasn't as interested in calmly discussing it.

 

why is it the wrong way?

 

 

Difficult to describe.

 

I don't recall him sticking to one topic for such an extended length of time in the previous games.

 

I don't recall him investing that much in any conversation with any one person.

 

I think he spoke more directly to his suspects as opposed to just trying to lay out a case. It's also been stagnant for a long while.

 

In that exchange with Shad, I felt like Zander was acting more like a lawyer than the berserker I know him to be.

[wish-tree]

The way you keep bringing up my pregame stuff as opposed to dealing with me now is a bad look.

 

agreed

[Zander?]

Remind me why Lenlo is so high on people's lists?

 

 

Ya what happened to Len??  He like dropped off the face of the earth,

[Zander?]

 

 

The main thing holding me back on pushing Wish is that I don't completely trust Zander.

 

 

 

I'd probably lynch Wish purely because that's where Turin is voting. No other real reason comes to mind.

 

WAIT WHAT???!!!

 

This is the problem with stating everything I'm thinking.

 

Yeah, I don't see the reason.

 

Tell you what, reduce the size of your case on Wish down to one paragraph.

 

 

 

Dude read my TLDR ISO on her.

[wish-tree]

 

 

Zander feels reasonable the wrong way and stubborn the wrong way in that exchange.

 

Reasonable in that he's sitting and discussing it at length with you.

 

Stubborn in that he won't budge from his positions and that his positions wouldn't budge regardless of how the player reacted.

 

The lengthy numbered exchange felt worse from Zander than anything else I saw this game.

 

Zander doesn't feel like that in the previous couple of games. His suspicion was more spread out and he wasn't as interested in calmly discussing it.

 

why is it the wrong way?

 

 

Difficult to describe.

 

I don't recall him sticking to one topic for such an extended length of time in the previous games.

 

I don't recall him investing that much in any conversation with any one person.

 

I think he spoke more directly to his suspects as opposed to just trying to lay out a case. It's also been stagnant for a long while.

 

In that exchange with Shad, I felt like Zander was acting more like a lawyer than the berserker I know him to be.

 

Not town tunneling? 

Others have kept saying that this is null for Zander because of his stubbornness. You think otherwise because of the lawyer thing?

[Zander?]

Still here, just watching and observing.

 

 

We call that lurking my dear   lolololololol

[Askthepizzaguy]

I could just lynch you instead, if you like.

[wish-tree]

I could just lynch you instead, if you like.

you don't have any reason to XD

 

No thanks

[Kaylee]

Cass: The bold was supposed to say I'm torn, he seems to be reading me correctly

[wish-tree]

 

Still here, just watching and observing.

 

 

We call that lurking my dear   lolololololol

 

what's wrong with it? :/

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

I'd probably lynch Wish purely because that's where Turin is voting. No other real reason comes to mind.

Turin is voting me because he thinks there's a conspiracy between me, Cass, Laine, and you to get Celeste lynched.

 

He thinks I hard defended her but am also willing to vote her....

 

This is not a good reason.

 

 

I'm going to vote with my village if I can't get my main suspects lynched.

 

 

 

Pizza this is starting to feel like your scum tell with your reads man.  Leaving yourself to back and blame following others as a reason.....im not liking this,

 

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Zander

 

 

 

lolololololol...didnt you just say i wasnt a D1 lynch for you?  Cause I start to question you, you vote me man....thats just god awful...like you shooting me in WE awful

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

 

Zander feels reasonable the wrong way and stubborn the wrong way in that exchange.

 

Reasonable in that he's sitting and discussing it at length with you.

 

Stubborn in that he won't budge from his positions and that his positions wouldn't budge regardless of how the player reacted.

 

The lengthy numbered exchange felt worse from Zander than anything else I saw this game.

 

Zander doesn't feel like that in the previous couple of games. His suspicion was more spread out and he wasn't as interested in calmly discussing it.

 

why is it the wrong way?

 

 

Difficult to describe.

 

I don't recall him sticking to one topic for such an extended length of time in the previous games.

 

I don't recall him investing that much in any conversation with any one person.

 

I think he spoke more directly to his suspects as opposed to just trying to lay out a case. It's also been stagnant for a long while.

 

In that exchange with Shad, I felt like Zander was acting more like a lawyer than the berserker I know him to be.

 

Not town tunneling? 

Others have kept saying that this is null for Zander because of his stubbornness. You think otherwise because of the lawyer thing?

 

I was just on the receiving end of tinfoil-berserker Zander. I also saw how he cased Tabor in the game prior. This is different.

 

He's very focused on you and has been for a long while at the expense of his usual pushing of half the player list.

 

I think he's more about laying out persuasion than hammering at the moment.

 

Like, his willingness to even engage at length with mostly just Shad for that long even feels out of character for him.

 

He's basically a toddler on crack who as ADHD. Getting him to stand still for even five seconds is out of character. To be focused for this long and be so measured in his approach, and willing to exchange with shad for that long feels wrong.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

I could just lynch you instead, if you like.

you don't have any reason to XD

 

No thanks

 

Dat was at Zander.

[Askthepizzaguy]

lolololololol...didnt you just say i wasnt a D1 lynch for you?  Cause I start to question you, you vote me man....thats just god awful...like you shooting me in WE awful

 

And now I won't move that vote.

 

Let's play a game: for each and every time you focus on my failures instead of my successes, I will kill you.

[Zander?]

The way you keep bringing up my pregame stuff as opposed to dealing with me now is a bad look.

 

 

ARE F@#@ING KIDDING ME>>>YOU TOLD ME TO SUSS YOU FOR THIS STUFF!!!!! YOU TOLD ME IT WAS YOUR SCUM GAME!!!!!  YOU TOLD ME YOURSELF!!!!!

[wish-tree]

 

 

 

 

Zander feels reasonable the wrong way and stubborn the wrong way in that exchange.

 

Reasonable in that he's sitting and discussing it at length with you.

 

Stubborn in that he won't budge from his positions and that his positions wouldn't budge regardless of how the player reacted.

 

The lengthy numbered exchange felt worse from Zander than anything else I saw this game.

 

Zander doesn't feel like that in the previous couple of games. His suspicion was more spread out and he wasn't as interested in calmly discussing it.

 

why is it the wrong way?

 

 

Difficult to describe.

 

I don't recall him sticking to one topic for such an extended length of time in the previous games.

 

I don't recall him investing that much in any conversation with any one person.

 

I think he spoke more directly to his suspects as opposed to just trying to lay out a case. It's also been stagnant for a long while.

 

In that exchange with Shad, I felt like Zander was acting more like a lawyer than the berserker I know him to be.

 

Not town tunneling? 

Others have kept saying that this is null for Zander because of his stubbornness. You think otherwise because of the lawyer thing?

 

I was just on the receiving end of tinfoil-berserker Zander. I also saw how he cased Tabor in the game prior. This is different.

 

He's very focused on you and has been for a long while at the expense of his usual pushing of half the player list.

 

I think he's more about laying out persuasion than hammering at the moment.

 

Like, his willingness to even engage at length with mostly just Shad for that long even feels out of character for him.

 

He's basically a toddler on crack who as ADHD. Getting him to stand still for even five seconds is out of character. To be focused for this long and be so measured in his approach, and willing to exchange with shad for that long feels wrong.

 

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

 

What are your thoughts about the earlier wagons for today? i.e.: Kaylee, csarmi, Pralaya, me

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

The way you keep bringing up my pregame stuff as opposed to dealing with me now is a bad look.

 

 

ARE F@#@ING KIDDING ME>>>YOU TOLD ME TO SUSS YOU FOR THIS STUFF!!!!! YOU TOLD ME IT WAS YOUR SCUM GAME!!!!!  YOU TOLD ME YOURSELF!!!!!

 

 

And you have me as your top villager.

 

You can't keep using it to try to control my behavior. That's manipulative.

[Zander?]

 

lolololololol...didnt you just say i wasnt a D1 lynch for you?  Cause I start to question you, you vote me man....thats just god awful...like you shooting me in WE awful

 

And now I won't move that vote.

 

Let's play a game: for each and every time you focus on my failures instead of my successes, I will kill you.

 

 

 

Well youre working up to another one Pizza unless ofc youre scum....

[alannalynn]

#1639 #1646 I like this case on Kaylee, I can see exactly where it is coming from and the conclusions reached. (the fanfare to get there was a little meh for me though)

@Pizza, I noticed on your most recent list that Kaylee isn't in your bottom 5, is there a reason for this?

Csarmi's interaction with Pizza page 83 looks like Csarmi is trying to find a way to negate the case

#1664 Pral agrees with Pizza's conclusion on Kaylee

 

/snip/

Alanna asked why I couldn't / wasn't town telling. I may be rusty as I have been away a while. I have also been busier than expected so haven't been able to be up to date and in thread as much as I would have preferred. 

 

My primary WTL is Shad, Alanna, Wish and Pizza. it is most likely that not all 4 would be mafia but I think some of them are taking advantage of others to get first me and then planning on Celeste lynched. I have some thoguht that my calling of the second thing caused a change of target. 

/snip/

The underlined makes me go Don't like this WTL at all. That's like, all my town reads.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question: What was "I guess the same could be said for you, as well, Shad" in reference to?

 

It was a continuation of this thought:

 

I'll be more worried later on if he hasn't caught any scum. I guess the same could be said for you, as well, Shad.

 

Basically, I expect you and Zander to find scum. If we keep going and you haven't caught any, I'm going to turn on you.

 

 

 

I feel like i already have tho....sadface.gif.

 

But what Im not a fan of is you putting the emphasis to do so on us and away from you!!!

 

TOWN!ALANNA FINDS SCUM WITH ME!!!!!!!

 

HEEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPP ME HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLPPPPP YOU REKKKKKKKTTTTTT WOOOLLLLLVVVVVVEEEEEESSSSS!!!!!

Zander I don't know how to tell you this but

 

 

I think Alanna might just be minority village

 

 

Bold: really Zander? I'm putting forth the effort, but I don't feel like you are listening to other people this game and responding like you should.

Lol Turin.

 

fwiw I would think....that you would think....that Scum!Zander would be much more likely to just agree with and pocket you.

Actually, I'm not sure how we would be on different teams because it hasn't happened yet.

 

Page 85 looks good for Kaylee, but then her responses on 87 have no fight in them.

#1732 Nolder --

 

 

 

 

The point is that we should be able to count on fellow town members to be here when we need them. If they can't do that, or are scum, we should lynch them. But FFS, let them get caught up and give them a chance first, please.

 

prolly a post Town!Alanna makes.  Cause jumping on inactives is a pretty easy thing for Scum to do on D1.

 

 

Here we go...

 

Go ahead and just use me as a punching bag.

No, really all of you just get it over.

Because this is the last god damn game I will even talk about inactives with anyone.

The next time anyone even thinks about saying "oh but Nolder usually pushes inactives so it's weird for him not to" don't because I will tell you to shut the hell up.

 

I don't mind it being my meta that I push inactives but not the way you all treat me because of it.

You expect me to do this thing which gets me bitched at and/or lynched almost every game I do it in and now if I don't do it it's weird and I'm off my meta.

Well now you know why I stopped pushing inactives in most cases because this is what happens.

 

You can all just policy lynch me from now on I don't care. I'm done.

Again Nolder --

This is a really bad post. You're over reacting when the post wasn't even directed at you and assuming you're being attacked. Major scum points, don't like. What's wrong with having a civil discussion about inactives in the first place? This post is just so bad.  #1767 Zander agrees

 

Alanna are you going to lynch our claimed Doc?

 

Cass where are you?

 

Nomi will you move your vote if no one else wants to lynch Kaylee? Who will you vote if you do?

No, not lynching claimed doc with one vote. [unvote]

 

#1779 good work from Nolder, looks like some fence sitting though

 

 

They didnt to me hence why I asked.  Thats a good question Shad.  Why do you feel we are?  I mean we've disagreed on reads before and obv sometimes I miss stuffs but I feel like youre not talking to me enough and trying to work WITH ME like you usually do, as much this game.

I would say I'm not working 'with you' because I've pretty fundamentally disagreed with many of the things you point out.  Normally where we differ as v/v it's a matter of you seeing something scummy in behavior I find null, and sometimes you're right and I'm missing it and sometimes I'm right and you're reading too much into it, but I can usually get where you're coming from.  In this game you're raising questions and drawing conclusions that I struggle to grasp the origin of in Zandermind.

Hmm.

Back and forth between Zander and Shad has Shad coming out looking better.

/stop top of 91