[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[alannalynn]

I gave up and fell asleep.

I'm only here now because my blanket made me hot and I wanted to see if you'd posted yet.

Sorry. Don't wait on me.

lol

[Shad_]

• I completely disagree.  I think its quite relevant and your dismissal of it is telling imo.
• Ok this is YET ANOTHER CONTRADICTION FROM YOU....you said you pegged the entire GAME for SPEC CHAT!!!!  No one interacted with you there now did they Lenny!!!!  BBBBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
• See above response.
• Dont throw big words at me to try and confuse me!!!!  lololololololol
• Ive touched on the excuses part more then enough this game.  Add that to everything else Ive brought up you i feel it certainly is telling.

Second point isn't bad at all. You get a cookie.

 

For the first one, you raised the same point repeatedly. She addressed it once. Was there something more to this one that you feel she's dismissing?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Okay it was worth a shot.

 

Is there any point in continuing to not say what I saw? Is anyone else still looking?

 

I'll reveal it when the folks in this chat agree to.

[alannalynn]

I've lost three years of my life waiting for you pizza

[Shad_]

If it is all a wash and I've wasted an hour or so and a few pages of everyone's time, I apologize, but this is due diligence and part of what we're supposed to be doing.

I missed the word "If" here on first glance and about smashed my forehead through my laptop.

[Shad_]

Have at it.

[alannalynn]

 

If it is all a wash and I've wasted an hour or so and a few pages of everyone's time, I apologize, but this is due diligence and part of what we're supposed to be doing.

I missed the word "If" here on first glance and about smashed my forehead through my laptop.

 

I just choked on air and couldn't breathe for like a minute

[Askthepizzaguy]

I've lost three years of my life waiting for you pizza

 

Aww, you're sweet, but you have a wonderful boyfriend and I'm with Sooh.

 

wakka wakka wakka

[alannalynn]

 

I've lost three years of my life waiting for you pizza

 

Aww, you're sweet, but you have a wonderful boyfriend and I'm with Sooh.

 

wakka wakka wakka

:dry: :dry: :dry: :dry: :dry: :dry: 

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's everyone, right? I don't think Csarmi or Pralaya are doing this.

[Shad_]

I'm up to where Pizza's ISOing Celeste on p66 and I'm done doing catch-up for the night. It's been a brutally slow process and it's after 3am, going to wait for Pizza's theory and start winding down.

 

I think my real-time picked up in the early 70s, maybe 72? So I'll be playing absent ~6 pages of content for the time being, for whatever that's worth. It's been a meaty game and high volume to boot.

[Cass]

Re-read to 50 with notes, skimmed forward some from my last post. Going out for a few hours but here's roughly where I'm at:

 

 

4. Turin* 

 

Town

 

1. Shad

8. Leno

5. Pizza

9. Wish-tree

11. Celeste

7. Laine

3. Zander

2. Kaylee

10. Pralaya

12. Nolder

6.  Csarmi

 

 

@Shad, in case you feel like cementing my reads or disappointing me, giving up your spot as my top town and moving to possibly deep, derp wolf, how serious are you with the Cass intro post thing being indicative of me as Town? The claim and excitement were genuine this time but the logic you present there is seriously flawed. I absolutely make that post or something similar as a wolf. 

[Shad_]

I never saw you make anything remotely like it as a wolf before.

Did want to know if you've been playing elsewhere while you were on break from DM.

I don't normally ISO other games the way I've been doing here. I usually limit that to refreshing my memory on things I already think I know.  The out-of-game ISO-heavy play is just something I'm doing in this game.

I'm not terribly interested in digging further into the intro post matter at this point though.  It was one point among many, albeit one that I felt pretty good about.  I'm not lynching you today.  I'm not lynching you tomorrow.  I'll start investigating you further if we're both alive and this game's spiraling down hill.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This is the quick and dirty, even-Zander-will-actually-read-this version:

 

a) At least twice so far this game, Kaylee has stated that she usually struggles day one. So it's characteristic of her villaging game, in her own words, that she will struggle with day one.

 

b) from the start of game onward, she gives people a villager read, starting with Cass, then Pizza, then Lenlo, then Zander, then Shad, then Cass, then Laine. In each and every one of those cases, there was no struggle to formulate the read visible in the game. There was only posts by that player, and a conclusion of villager, which then only moved in one direction. There wasn't a whole lot of reversing of any of those reads, and updates on those reads were sparse, essentially only to double down on established reads.

 

c) the players that did not post were null, but excluding those, Turin was null, Wish was null, and Nolder were null. (no point is being made here, just noting for the record)

 

d) Her negatives: She began with Celeste and is "unsure" of Celeste and Wish-tree, but only pushes on Turin who was her null after I've laid out a case, then says "maybe" she'd push Nolder if Turin were revealed to be a villager. Okay, so generically, section d is "struggling". Fine.

 

• Where's the struggling/hesitation/doubt in section b?

 

 

Compare with other villagers in this game. While most of us have strong town reads we haven't been diligent in re-examining, I don't believe we simply went "yep, you're a villager.... yep, you are.... yes, you are.... you're a villager.... you're a villager..." and had little difficulty arriving there.

 

For someone who describes herself as usually struggling day one, her villager list and the process of creating it looks entirely politically motivated and reveals not much in the way of solving from a perspective of not being in the know.

 

This should be extremely easy to compare to another Kaylee game where she's town. My premise is that if she's a villager, she's going to have greater difficulty getting those villager reads in her villaging game, and some of those reads should reverse during the course of the first day. I think I should be able to see a difference.

 

If this is null, I'll find out and/or you guys are going to tell me that it is.

 

The bottom line is that she's giving off the general appearance of village solving, but I don't think it is, because the process looks improbably even and too easy for someone who is "struggling". Compare and contrast with Celeste.

 

 

Minor stuffs:

 

 

 

There's other negative indicators, such as the fact that generally, she's behaving much like Besie was in the previous game, playing the role of the peaceful mediator type.

 

That can just be her normal personality, but she's taken it up to 11 this game.

 

And she was kind of awkward around the time that Turin posed the question about if not Turin, who dies today. "Maybe Nolder", and then, "Csarmi then" when I deliberately copycatted Alanna's Csarmi and Kaylee response to who to kill today besides Turin.

 

This section is the minor stuff which can be dealt with separately. The main point is the major problem and means -20 points if it's esablished to be different from her normal behavior.

 

 

I'll post the actual work in a minute. Just wanted to make my main points read-able.

 

[Pralaya]

That's everyone, right? I don't think Csarmi or Pralaya are doing this.

 

I haven't come there yet. What do you want us to do?

[Shad_]

Started looking at this game and her town game side by side but my brain is fried, will try again tomorrow and leave this for others to comment on.

[Shad_]

sleeeeeeeep

[csarmi]

 

That's everyone, right? I don't think Csarmi or Pralaya are doing this.

 

I haven't come there yet. What do you want us to do?

 

He wants us to read Kaylee ISO.

[csarmi]

This is the quick and dirty, even-Zander-will-actually-read-this version:

 

a) At least twice so far this game, Kaylee has stated that she usually struggles day one. So it's characteristic of her villaging game, in her own words, that she will struggle with day one.

 

b) from the start of game onward, she gives people a villager read, starting with Cass, then Pizza, then Lenlo, then Zander, then Shad, then Cass, then Laine. In each and every one of those cases, there was no struggle to formulate the read visible in the game. There was only posts by that player, and a conclusion of villager, which then only moved in one direction. There wasn't a whole lot of reversing of any of those reads, and updates on those reads were sparse, essentially only to double down on established reads.

 

c) the players that did not post were null, but excluding those, Turin was null, Wish was null, and Nolder were null. (no point is being made here, just noting for the record)

 

d) Her negatives: She began with Celeste and is "unsure" of Celeste and Wish-tree, but only pushes on Turin who was her null after I've laid out a case, then says "maybe" she'd push Nolder if Turin were revealed to be a villager. Okay, so generically, section d is "struggling". Fine.

• Where's the struggling/hesitation/doubt in section b?

In her head.

[csarmi]

Kaylee scum: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/81647-the-hunger-games-mafia-advanced-game-over-town-and-tg-wins/

Kaylee town: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/84758-basic-die-hard-for-mafia-game-thread/

[Askthepizzaguy]

The full ISO of Kaylee.

Postive comments:
Cass- no struggle to read
Pizza- no struggle to read, strongest town read, blue read
Lenlo- leaning town, no struggle, still getting town vibes, dark green
Zander- leaning town, no struggle
Shad- no struggle, feeling good.
Cass- light green, behavior associated with town game.
---------------
Alanna- town lean likely

Null comments:
Turin (before)
Wish
Csarmi
Pral
Nolder

Negative comments:
Celeste's unvote of her joke vote. Says it's meh, doesn't know her well.
Unsure why wish-tree needs to defend Celeste.
Unsure about wish-tree and Celeste (Penny/Lenny)
Turin, 1036
"Maybe Nol" 1086

Kaylee Iso:

 9 Hi, and goodnight.

147
I like posts like this from Cass. Makes me feel good about her.
Her last comment here for Alanna I'll touch on. I can't speak for Laine but I myself felt it could come from town Len. It's meta reasons for me. I haven't seen enough from either Shad or Len to have a read on them, but Lenlo I know better than Shad.
I will be in catch up mode for awhile since this is apprently a very active game. Will post more as I'm able to catch up.

208  I agreed with this. Liking Pizza's tone.
210  We've played a game together but it's been awhile. I try to play the same as either alignment. I could say more on my playstyle but as you said it's better when it's not coming from a biased source.
215 I like the feel of your posts. You don't seem to be reserved as you do when scum. I've been scum with you and as scum you tend to come across as being careful. This game you seem to be trying to figure things out. Basically saying things \pointing them out as you see them. You're thinking things through but don't seem to care as much how you're coming across... More focused on the game and less on yourself I guess is what I'm saying.
On Leno: As town he's more likely to say whatever pops in his head, less filtered. As scum he's very careful what and how he says things. As I said it's early yet but leaning town.
216  Depends. If the one with the bat looks like they're planning on using it on me then duh them. Otherwise why would I shoot either? If there's no threat I'm not using the gun.
221  Why are you voting Shad?
223  Lenny: Yes but I don't recall the game. Either that or it was the game I modded...
226  Hi Lenofinger!
228  Yup that was it

268  Ok makes sense. I don't have a read on him yet. I questioned your vote because it came without explanation.
273  Please don't keep requoting a post to only make a small comment. It's better to snip it down to contain only what you're talking about...or just reference it. Otherwise it's hard to read.
280 Turin: apprently not clear to me. It is now though.
I sometimes miss things when playing catch up. Besides, I'd rather ask to clarify if I'm unsure then just assume I know what someone's point is.
291  I'm curious why the unvote? The timing, seeing as Pizza had been questioning/pressing your on it, just feels...off.
303  That's what I asked. Curious why you asked soon after me.
305  I don't get the comment Zander. It's not like that's the only comment I've made.
315 It's not that he also asked, just that I had not long before. I now realize he's catching up, but thought he ignored me saying it and was trying to like he was first.
I point out things as they stand out. Found the timing odd.
317  Pizza: yeah I just realized as I said to Leno just now.
338  It was me a long time ago. I had a typo and it stuck.
339  Me too
341  It wasn't your unvote itself but the timing that stood out.
343  Lenocorn?
362  As I told her, it wasn't the fact that she unvoted, but the timing that was off. Not sure why you feel you need to defend her though she's already said the same thing. She didn't address the timing which is what was being questioned.
367  She unvoted shortly after being questioned by Pizza. He didn't realize it was a joke vote.
381  Fair enough I suppose.
387  Aww someone loves me. Zander
409  Zander: I don't know her well enough. Could or be coincidence? Perhaps. Hence the fair enough comment. It's possible. Do I suspect her enough to vote? Not at this time. It stood out, I said as much and she gave an explanation. I agree it's meh.
412  I'm only caught up for now...going to take a nap and I'm sure they'll make it happen. It's not fun to play catch up every morning though which I'm sure I'll attempt to do. New job starts tomorrow so I won't be able to be as active.
418  I'm here Zander and I like interacting IRT. Any questions for me? That goes for anyone.
421  Night Pizza, night Sooh. *hugs Sooh*

433 I'm not really sure on Penny/Lenny. I've noted Wish standing up for/defending Celeste regarding the unvote. Not sure if there's something to it yet though...just noted for now.
I have Pizza, Len, Cass and you as town leans. Don't really have scum leans atm. There's a lot I'm not sure on as I've not played with them or at least not often.
Cass I've already explained my town lean on.
Pizza and you are for being vocal and the focus of it. Meaning I've liked what he's had to say and thought the same on some of the same things. Zander- is more how you've latched onto Lenny/Penny and yet aren't tunneling. You're still addressing other things as they happen.
Leno- Part meta part I've liked how he's responding as he's catching up. Feels genuine and like his townie self.

436  I got that too when Wish jumped in to answer for Celeste. Seems almost like there's a knowing. I could be reading too much into that though.
437  Looking forward to it.
443  Kinda creepy
445  It's not just Zander. Leno and I have commented on it as well.
448  I'm not sure how I feel about being in your head. Scary place
451  Yeah and it's scary! Lol
453 Bold: Hold on, first off nobody is voting you so not likely a mislynch if you're town. We've mentioned it felt off. For me it isn't just the timing it's her defense of you as well which I said could be just strange. No reason to jump to saying you'll be mislynched. If you're town help us see it.
458  I have seen them, been a part of it. Nobody has voted you. You can't be mislynched if you're not voted. You have plenty of time to show us if you're town.
468  What? I don't get question. I don't like when posts are requoted to the point you can't tell what they say anymore. That's all I meant. I don't get what the question has to do with this game or the quote you used.
474  Shad: I only won as scum in Frozen because my scum team was acting scummy and it made easy for me to then "scum hunt". Typically as scum I'm more reserved and cautious about what I say and how I'm being perceived.
479  I think I know why, but please say the reason.
497  Goodnight everyone

...

683 Hun you have all of one vote on you so no, you didn't call anything. Your insisting that you'll be mislynched might actually get you there unless you show us you're town.
Please explain on Shad. If you've since explained then thanks.
Also, good morning.
684  To your last point: some of us are trying to give you the chance to move on and show how you're town.
685  It wasn't a blind acceptance but rather a I suppose I can see that response. I wasn't voting her and like to give people a chance to show effort... Esp since as a townie I've been wrongfully accused and lynched. I don't like her attitude of "I'm going to be mislynched now" though before even getting voted.
686  I too am hoping for examples.
687  There Verbal was talking about me using wall of texts, not using quotes requoted to the punt of not being able to read them. (I can only play on mobile most of the time and those get to be one letter inside the quotes... So people using that to say "yeah I agree" or other little comments gets frustrating. That's as either alignment BTW).
688  Feeling pretty good about Shad after this post. I like how he's explained where he's coming from.
690  Wasn't defensive about frozen. I wasn't sure what he was getting at.
691  Me too on your last point here.
692 Cass: From what I know he'll give content either way. It's the approach that changes. He'll care more about how he's coming across, choose words more carefully correct typos... As mafia. I don't see that here. He's trying something new, he's making his thoughts known and being active. Still getting town vibes.
693  Caught up. Will be gone for awhile. Have to get ready for work and bathe the kids.
698  Cass: no I didn't have a read on Turin there. I like that he's given thoughts on players with reasons behind it though. He's not one I read well tbh.
701  Feel better Wish

...

828  Looking forward to it.
831  I agree it's not likely they're both scum. Willing to wait to see what Celeste has to say upon catch up-still giving her a chance to speak up and show if she's town.

899 He backed off of me due to my outburst. I told him, in game, that it wasn't alignment indicative. I was just genuinely pissed. Ask husband or Tress.
Anyway just wanted to clarify.

1022 I agree with this. I really don't make RL excuses. I say when things in RL come up to keep me away. Period. Done it as both alignments.
Anyway enough about this. It's becoming a distraction. Let's focus on this particular game please.
1024  If there's something I can clarify for you let me know. It's nice to see you stating to put in effort
1025 So you're strongest town reads are due to tone, and scum reads are for also tone more or less... Except maybe Nol. Can anyone who reads Celeste well say whether it's typical of her to give mostly tone reads?
1026  I like this question
1027  OK fair enough as I tend to be the same way. Will be looking for this to change as the game goes on then.
1028  I really like this. I can agree with this about Celeste. Turin is one I don't read as well however from what I remember he usually puts in effort. If have to look at his reason for voting again to see if I agree about that part.
1029  After your recent posts you're my strongest town read.
1030  I'm trying but I typically struggle early game. In fact I'm trying to change since my last town game I spent sheeping my strongest town read, Nyn.
1036 Shad has been in my town pile so I won't be voting him. I'm not sold on you however and I'm more willing to follow my strong town read, Pizza, onto you. Why shouldn't you be the lynch today? I also like what Pizza said about your list right after this post of yours.

Big major post
http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96393-basicstandard-warcraft-war-of-the-ancients-mafia-day-one/page-53?do=findComment&comment=3588222

I'll try, though I have a lot of null...

The order I copied from Alanna's list so as to not miss anyone.

Alanna - town lean. I'm looking the work she's putting in, explaining herself and giving reads and vibes all say likely town.
Lenlo - Town. Stronger lean than Alanna. Darker green. He's tone, style and overall liked what he's had to say.
Zander- About the same as Leno. Mind melded a few times. He's gone after what he feels is a sunny without ignoring the rest of the game. He seems genuine and I just find myself nodding a lot of at least able to see where's he's coming from and it feels townie.
Pizza - Blue read. You've made me think. You're approach this game and esp recently had me thinking you have to be town. If I'm wrong then bravo to you. The way you've put in work, and so early, I just don't see coming from scum.
Shad - Light green. He's one I'm not as familiar with. Why town? His willingness to go against the grain with his reads, how he's handled Celeste for example. He is putting in effort and fighting for what he feels is right. Also genuine and a "I don't care if you don't agree, but vote someone I feel is town and I'll fight it" attitude.
Cass - light green. She's fooled me before though. Here she comes across as more ready going and free thought which I associate with her town game.
Wish - Unsure ATM so null I suppose. I have mixed feelings.
Csarmi- Null I have a real hard time reading him.
Pral- Note enough from him Null
Nolder- Reserving since he's going outside what I'm used to. Null for now just to place him. Time will tell with this slot.
Celeste - I'm going with Pizza here and saying more time will tell. So she's between grey and yellow.
Kaylee- me town and I know I need to step it up. I'm trying to do better.
Turin - Yellow. I'd like him to answer my question. I like what piazza's had to say against him.

1048  Yup computer hasn't worked in awhile.
1049  I'll be in and out all day. Will do my best to stay caught up and answer any questions.
1077  Who is doing the bold? Please examples because I know of anyone off hand who is calling her town and yet wanting to lynch her. I know some, like me, said they were conflicted about her.
1082 I like just voting unless I have a more solid feel/lead. That's just how I play.
Ok you say you're town, but I'm just not convinced as yet. I need to see moar.
1086  It wouldn't be Shad or Pizza that I'd vote. Maybe Nol. I'm just not sure tbh. I don't have a solid scum read atm. I do better finding scum by D2 or D3.
1088  I'm curious why me when the most you've said about me is that you don't remember what I've done so far. If there's another reason please share with the class.
1090  She actually called her town or at least likely town. I can't remember the exact wording she used.
1091  Was supposed to say I don't like to just vote.
1093  Curious as to why. Is it you think I'm scummy or just POE?
1094 Vote: Turin
Otherwise I'd go for one of nulls.

1112 I'd like to bit honestly I'm not sure. I'd vote Csarmi then. I've given thoughts and reads. I just don't feel strongly enough about anyone to push a lynch. I won't just to save myself either. That wouldn't help town win. Unfortunately D1 is hard for me so I often struggle.

I'm following along and being aS active as I can. The only other I'm not sold on my list is Nolder. I'd like to not say as to why just yet as it depends on how he proceeds.

1121
1) I liked his case it made sense, but Shad raised valid points about get meta which I'm not familiar with. I don't see her being wolf with Celeste. I could possibly vote there. I'm trying not to sheep.

2) No. I mentioned her earlier. The reads list doesn't give a lot, but I didn't say much about it since I know mine are the same. Pizzas points just made sense but as I've been saying since her "oh now I'm going to be mislynched" comment, I'm willing to give her time.

3) Not his typical meta. Plain and simple. The starting with the question. Hoping for more there but not seeing enough as of yet.

4) Funny as you want others to read your posts but you didn't read mine to know the answer. I asked why he shouldn't be lynched. Yes he's answered it. No I wasn't fully satisfied with the answer hence why I voted him.

1127  First Unvote I won't vote a claimed town PR. Csarmi was higher since I have little on him and I wanted to give Celeste time. I could vote her but I'd honestly like to give her time.

1145 1) I didn't say I didn't get the meta argument. I said Shad made a metà argument that made sense. At least that's what I wad getting at. That's why I'm conflicted on her.

2) Fair enough. I just don't make a lot of solid reads D1. It is what it is. Take our how you will. Unless someone does something really attending out anyways.

4) Not snippy. Remember text doest give tone. Just a realization. I'm up and responding to everything that stands out to me.

1147  Zander: it wad more effort than I felt she'd given all game.
1148 I don't want to rush a lynch. Looks like Wish, Celeste, Kaylee, and Csarmi are who everyone's recently talked about lynching. I'd go Nol too.
What are cases thoughts on these? Who should be lynched? I'm looking for more reason than POE.
1150  Celeste: who should we lynch today and why?
1152  Nolder, Wish sane question. I'd especially like you three to answer.
1163  Looking forward to it.
1168  I prefer to just work in the current game. I try not to swayed meta if possible. I can't blame you for not being sure since I'm in same boat, but at least give a few names you're less sure of.
1207 I done either yet I have some I'd be willing to vote for. I can't decide on you so I said it'd like to give it time. I don't like this question. Looks kind of like "well look at how I don't strong reads, I can't be mafia because I'm uninformed". I'm not calling you scum. I'm trying to get you to say who's on the table from you're POV. Who are your bottom?
With everything that's gone on you don't have one or two that stood out?
1210  She has
1217  You left off Laine, whom you briefly talk about later and Pizza. Others too,but come on Pizza had been active. Why leave him off?
1220  I'm liking how you're putting things together here. On your own. I'm willing to see where you're going with this mystery stuff.
1227 That was a typo. It was supposed to say I don't like to....
Anyway yes I liked the case and had Turin in my bottom. I've also since said I'd lynch from Csarmi, Wish (mostly since I don't know how to read her and I did like your case against her), Celeste (for what's been said previously and Pizza's case against her). No longer Nol though.
Nol does bring up an interesting point about Pizza.
I'm leaning more likely Wish than Celeste because I want to give her time.
1231  Except fois the understanding Pizza part this is more where I'm at on Celeste as well.
1234 Well ok then. So Leno, myself, Csarmi, Pral, Nol, and someone else I'm forgetting.
Any one of these are fine.
1244 No longer Nol,but I guess your haven't read that from me yet.
Csarmi I said because he's on my bottom,a null POE. I've said as much.
1299  It's What I got. It's also better than voting a claimed town PR
1302  Pizza: didn't you say you believe Turin's claim or that it at least checks out? Why then not unvote him?
1307  Lol I'm distant? Been around and posted since the started. I've made my opinions known and given reads. You don't think it takes effort to make even a simple reads list? Ok fine there. I don't get the comment though honestly. I was basically saying it was nice that she was making effort to show she's town as I've been asking. If someone isn't going to contribute then they can't expected to be seen as town.
1319 Yeah I agreed with Zander too. I said it was the most effort she'd given so far.
Fair enough I suppose on the rest.
1358 Kay admitted she's lost and sometimes sheeps her town leans.
Nice of you to give thoughts though.
Honestly I'm fine is I'm lynch. I'm lost on who to vote, haven't been able to contribute much and it might help the town win by eliminating an unknown. I'm nor giving up just pointing out facts.
1361 Well Wish hun you don't seem to like anything else said so no surprise there.
As I've said I'm not giving up just seem to be at bottom of a few POE's. I know I'm town but I'm not sure who to vote. Which doesn't help.
1364  Btw I'll be gone for awhile. I don't leave for another 15-30 mins so if anyone has any questions I'm here
1370 Last time I'll say this: I'M NOT GIVING UP.
Ok now maybe that'll sink in. Anyway yes I'll to do that but it'll be later. Pral could be one. Maybe Wish. Cass and Alanna could easily fool me.
I honestly doubt it's Pizza or Zander. To a lesser extent don't think it's Shad.
The others are less certain. Still thinking maybe Csarmi. I don't know.
1372  No worries just frustrated with myself for not having a better handle on things.
1375  I'm not. Then I wouldn't be trying.
1385  I agree with this question.
1389  This made me giggle
1391  Why? I can't remember what you've said about him.
1393  Ok heading out soon, will be back later

 
Issues one by one.
 
1) See above main point with the issue I'm having with her game. See post 1030, and again in 1112. What she says and who she is are two different things this game. That's the main problem. She isn't struggling at all, in any way other than to place a vote. Otherwise, she's got half the village as clean, and easily so. 1145 she reiterates how she doesn't make solid reads D1.
 
2) "Why are you voting Shad", "Why the unvote?", "You left off Laine, Pizza. Why leave him off?" kind of questions. It reads generically like questions a villager might ask but it never leads to any kind of convictions on the person. Every person towards whom she poses these questions remains null and she doesn't vote that person. So this is essentially filler.
 
3) Posts like 436 which read as smudging someone and painting them as scummy, but being unwilling to actually push there.
 
4) Generally being chummy with everyone like Besie was last game. It's nice but it's also part of a good scum game. 1022-1029 example of this. Playing the role of a mediator and the voice of reason. 448-479 as an example, 683 as a major example. 684, 685. 1022.
 
5) Wants others to make cases and push them, prompts people to do this multiple times, unwilling to do so herself. 1025 is just one example, there are several. 1121 is another example, she says she doesn't want to sheep, but this is contradicted by her behavior so far in letting others push cases while pushing no one herself. Contradictory behavior isn't always scummy, but in this instance, yeah. 1148 is another huge example. 1150. 1152.
 
6) Typical of scumbags, when someone suspects her, she's very curious to know the reason, in just about each and every instance. This happens at least three times that I can recall, check above if you're not sure. This can be a poor indicator, since good villaging tends to ask these questions, but at the same time, I find a correlation. Scumbags always want to know why they're being lynched, nothing infuriates them more than being lynched without making mistakes that they can learn from, or having a case they can defend against. So this alone is not a strong point.
 
7) 1220 is an example of something I actually felt off about at the time. She has me as a strong town read, but has little to say in 1220 except that she likes what Nolder is saying there.
 
 

 

 

 

You think if she's a wolf she's an obvious wolf and it will only get worse over time.
You'd rather hunt the wolves that are still under cover than take the easy lynch.

It makes sense but I think I disagree with it strategically.

More specifically, I think she is more likely to be a mislynch than a wolf at the present time, not that she is especially villagery. And that she should get resolved at some point, but when we have more data on her, thus reducing the odds that it is a mislynch.

If she's a villager I don't want to give the wolves a freebie pass to skate through day one hounding someone who can't defend herself.

If she's a wolf, I want people to continue to pay attention to her, resolve her at some point, don't forget about her. Until she starts to shine like a villagery beacon, she should be in the POE.

I just think it's not the best move to make her first in the POE.

And if she's a wolf, I understand how this looks. I will be dead before I get mislynched over this if she is a wolf.

 

Ok I'm glad I went back to reread because I knew this post wasn't sitting well with me and I wanted to look over it again.

Nomi is basically agreeing that Celeste looks scummy.
His thought process is if that's WRONG then he wants to give her time to improve and if it's RIGHT it will remain right.
Think about that for a minute. If you think someone is scummy you want to lynch them for what they have or haven't done.
Whatever your reasons are you had them...well for a reason. He seems to be playing on towns fear of mislynching.
Mislynching really isn't a thing when you think about it. You have suspects and at the bottom is the guy who looks the dirtiest.
You get rid of him for a reason. If he's a villager well oh well but he was lynched because he looked like a wolf.
So that's why I don't like this defense of Celeste. Nomi agrees she looks like a wolf...but we shouldn't lynch her. Because mislynches.

I don't like it.
This smells all wrong to me.

 

I'm liking how you're putting things together here. On your own. I'm willing to see where you're going with this mystery stuff.

 

 
 
If I'm one of her top town reads, actually her top town read at one point, that this is her only comment on this post is a large incongruity.
 
So if she's not actually absorbing and then challenging the statements made by people who disagree with her, nor is it actually changing her mind, what is she doing here?
 
Answer: Handing out gold stars to people to thank them for their villaging efforts.
 
Something a wolf would do way more often than a villager. A villager would actually have an opinion and talk to Nolder about it to resolve the difference between her strong villager read on me and Nolder's work painting me as scum.
 
 
That's the long-and-not-dirty version.
 
 
Before I lynch Kaylee today I want to check into that village game of hers that was linked, to resolve my biggest and most salient point about her play.
 
If that's how she villages then it's null. But I don't recognize that as typical villaging from essentially anyone I've ever played with.
 
Not in this game, not in any game. So she'd be a pretty special butterfly if that's her typical behavior.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Kaylee scum: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/81647-the-hunger-games-mafia-advanced-game-over-town-and-tg-wins/

Kaylee town: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/84758-basic-die-hard-for-mafia-game-thread/

 

Page 10 of her town game and I'm already seeing huge, radical differences of the sort I mentioned.

 

She's been far more aggressive and has actually cautioned against putting people villagery that eary, and hasn't given any town reads at all.

 

That's 3 very big differences, one of them a fundamental aspect of her villaging game.

 

Let's continue.

[csarmi]

Yea that was 1.5 year ago (found it in my siggy).

 

This Kaylee looked normal town!Kaylee for me, but I'll check what you have. Not sure I can formulate why.

[csarmi]

That was in a DM meta where finding villagers was frowned upon, a couple of years ago. Then Cory came.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Page 20 of the linked town game and this is night and day. She's shifted her vote like 5 times and she's still got no one she's marking off as townie.

 

This is a much, much more aggressive and scum-hunting Kaylee.

 

She's challenging everyone, she's spending almost no time being a mediator. She's far less cautious.