[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

        

 

Askthepizzaguy presents: Smileys through the ages of history

 

A study in what the sleep-deprived mind does when confronted with an unsolvable Zander.

 

 

i dunno brother you could like maybe talk to me to see if you can garner the information youre looking for.....

 

 

 

I'm looking for sharp, clear town-tells.

 

You make them often. I know this. It's just a matter of patience.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am looking for a certain quality that the French call... I don't know what.

 

It can't be forced or faked or deliberately provoked.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I could put the knight smiley again to represent game of thrones.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Shad/Lenlo being cute

 

 

Current thoughts on these two are that there's ?probably too much interaction and Town-Town calling there for them to be W-W. Lenlo possibly a more likely candidate for non-Town (but this with full disclosure that I'm reading Lenlo much the same as everything I read of his in the Diablo game and he flipped Town).

 

@Laine, can you explain 'being cute' and why it was important to you? Ie - what's your assessment of the cuteness in relation to initial reads?

 

 

 

 

Why would Len be more likely to be non Town (interesting choice of terms considering Nol brought up a 3rd party comment as Scum in Worlds End).......then Shad atp?

 

What made you think that "Cute" was something more then just a joke or off cuff comment Cass?

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Work with me brother what do you think of my reads??? 

 

What are your reads.  We've seem to be on the same page and my strongest Town read atp lets go!!!!

 

*bump*

 

 

AORN I'm updating my listy list.

 

It's approximately this:

 

 

Askthepizzaguy (again!)

Cassy +6

Shad +4

Laine +2

Lenlo +2

Wish +2

Zander +1

Nolder +1

Csarmi

Pralaya True Null

Turin -1

Kaylee -1

Celeste -1

 

But this doesn't factor in many recent pages. Sooh just woke up so the updating of my list is slow going and I'm also trying to absorb the differences, if any, in Zander's current game and Zander's scum games of yore.

 

[alannalynn]

#604 Zander asking the real questions.lol

[Zander?]

Woo. I am awesome. That value.

 

 

 

i call this one csarmi.gif   lololololololol

 

 

 

 

I would actually say Lenlo (I originally just wrote Lenlove? wtf) a little more likely to be town than Shad, due to his willingness to give Shad a town lean like that.

For now..

Lenlo

Shad

 

 

Really???!!!!

 

I dont think that is in anyway shape or form alignment indicative my dear.  Why do you do???

LET ME DO MY THING ZANDER OMG

 

 

im rereading so forgive me if my memory's off but did you address this Alanna?

[Sooh]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Shad (2): Turin, Celeste

Celeste (1): Lenlo

 

Not voting (10): Shad, Kaylee, Zander, Pizza, Csarmi, Laine, Wish, Pral, Nolder, Cass

 

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

No deadline has been set at this time.

[Zander?]

 

@ Cass, I would say that Lenlo posting in that manner is completely null for him (1). Also too early for it to mean anything about Shad as they were basically the only two in thread at that time (2).

 

Ty! (*Numbers added to points for reference)

1) What differences would you expect from Lenlo as either alignment? 

2) Do you have a read on either?

 

I can believe Lenlo's tone is null, given my complete and utter misread of him in Diabolo. But still, this post stood out:

 

 

 

Shad, please attempt to describe your take on Lenlo's meta.

 

Also, Cass, who is Penny?

 

I like the first question here.

 

Penny is Celeste (and a million other names :P Penn :P ). I've played with her/both of us as Town twice, for a total of 2 in-game days.

Once on PersC where I advocated her mislynch cos she didn't make sense and recently at theOrg where she got taken out by Scum n1. She's a good player.

 

 

 

Again where you earlier say Len is more likely to be "non town" then you say is tone is null so again wondering why you felt that way?

 

 

 

First read done but now re-read.

 

I think I found one villager already which is good. I just want to see if I can agree with my gut on it.

 

 

Is it top secret or can you tell us who it was and why atp?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I had it as Turin, but then it became a wash of uncertainty.

 

Or is it awash.

 

Either way, it's still not clean.

[Zander?]

 

:dry:   Thought I would get a chance to find out from Cass, but I'm going to bed. Goodnight all

Noooooooooooooooo!

 

In a nutshell, Zander feeling a little forced and you... something. Potentially related to something I half-remember from our scum-game, potentially nothing. 

 

Way too early for any of it to be significant, so don't stress. Unless you're a wolf. Then stress.

 

Because Cory and I will catch you! :P

 

 

What was it you were referring to here and did you feel she actually did it???

[alannalynn]

Just gonna take some notes as I read since quoting responding is gonna be ridiculous right now. #000 refers to post number just so I can keep my place of where I had particular thoughts or references, and if I need a response I'll probably quote/link it.

#224 Lenlo: You asked why you were over Shad. I recall you being very awkward as mafia, and Shad less so. But it doesn't matter much, those were ~leans anyways and not entirely due to your back and forth at the start of the game.

#232 Wish- like that she's giving reads and explaining herself. Expected her to come out more and , maybe if she was mafia, in an attempt to cover herself like she did in TUS where she was super flirty. Even if I didn't remember how she was in TUS d1, her TOANNN seems to be good. Would put her above Celeste, who I currently have as nullish.
 

Zander felt abit defensive about Cass and hasnt done much since. That worries me with him.

 

Nolder im gonna let do his thing as I believe he will reveal himself as wolf or town on his own. I dont feel he has alot of lasting power, like he skews towards one direction or the other as the game progresses.

 

Kaylee havnt played with in forever. Same with Turin.

 

Ill agree with Pizzas read of Shad for now, but im going to want more from him before he gets out of my PoE

Do you think Zander's defensiveness with Cass is due to his trying to understand her or because he's worried he's been caught? I had a follow up question to this but now I can't remember lol it may come back later... (continuation of this exchange #321)

 

#275 completely null for Zander, but I wanna ++

#278 Turin, I want to point out that this is now a false meta on Lenlo. He's been changing how he plays. Zander comments on this #363 too, and I agree with his statement. Lenlo all growed up now

 

Zander, are you really having issues trusting Turin, Kaylee, and Celeste?

 

That's my exact bottom 3.

 

Not that they're super scummy, I just don't think we've ever mindmelded that hard this early before.

Can we add Pral to this pile? I also don't think I've heard anything from Csarmi...

Pral

Csarmi

Celeste

Kaylee/Turin

#315 Not sure why Zander asking about the unvote after Kaylee is a big deal...? Odd interaction on that page.
 

I unvoted because it was a joke vote. Is it really that scummy to you guys? A joke vote is simply for entertainment and reaction testing.

Celeste, pretty sure this was a #timing issue. But also pretty sure the vote was a joke..?

#340 Zander :wub:

pg18 <3 for LenWish

#373 Hey ZanZan, I know you're suspicious of Kaylee from Frozen, but what are you reading of her from this game? Anything that she's doing here which would lead you to believe she's the same as in Frozen?

pausing top of 21

[alannalynn]

Zander, would you hate me if I said I assigned alignments for funsies but I actually now kinda like those reads?

[Zander?]

I had it as Turin, but then it became a wash of uncertainty.

 

Or is it awash.

 

Either way, it's still not clean.

 

 

Re-read complete, and my villager leans are thusly

 

We're not giving points for everything this time, that leads to runaway (Lenlo) scumreads which are sucky and don't reverse until it's problem. Instead posts which are likely town but more easily faked as scum are 0 with the word town next to it.

 

Askthepizzaguy (again!)

Cassy +5 initial wtf reaction has been clarified a lot. Yeah blue.

Shad +3 not outside his scum game but much improvement

Laine +2 Not confident but in my top 3

Zander Null points, but +1 overall (Not outside his scum range but I get good vibes)

Csarmi Null points, but +1 good feels

Turin Null points, but +1 good feels

Kaylee Null

Lenlo Null

Celeste Null

 

Wish True Null

Pralaya True Null

Nolder True Null

 

 

ok Pizza what was it from what we were talking about it the first post quoted to the reads list that dropped Turin so low.....what was it you said about yourself and easy to flip reads.....

[Zander?]

#604 Zander asking the real questions.lol

 

 

 

????

[Zander?]

Zander, would you hate me if I said I assigned alignments for funsies but I actually now kinda like those reads?

 

I could NEVER hate you Alanna  :wub:

 

But Id prolly hate the answer tho

[Shad_]

Ok, caught up.

 

Csarmi

Cass

Pizza

Leno
Wish-tree

Zander

Nolder

Pralaya

Turin

Kaylee
Celeste
Laine

 

Gee Shad, that's a lot of scum and not many strong town.

 

Very briefly:

 

Yep.  Salami I've explained.  Not someone I would have ever expected to have as top town but stranger things have happened.  Cass has made the sort of observations that my gut instinctively susses, but when I look at what she does with them I see a player who is using initial weak concerns to develop reads and isn't settling into a cozy comfort zone where she can coast through the rest of the phase despite being fairly well town read.  Pizza is playing a clean game and attempting to rally a town core.  It's pro-town.  I'll be looking for how he sustains it.  His progression seems to have stalled a bit on Zander, but that's understandable from my pov.  Lenlo not being himself, but he knows this, and it's not in a scummy way.  He has made a few comments I don't recall off the top of my head that struck me as, at worst, on the fringes of his scum potential.  I think scum!Lenlo is more likely to attempt to attempt to emulate his town norms than to fake taking a different approach.  Wish feels like a pretty proactive town to me, and I'm not really bothered by her protective posture @ Celeste the way a lot of people are.  Zander hasn't really said or done anything out of his wolf range so far.  Nolder's felt fairly absent--a few things I've liked that don't add up to much in the overall lack of much content.  Has Pral even checked in yet?

 

Turin's vote on me was lazy at face value.  I would have liked to prod him for more info on it before explaining why but our availability time hasn't really overlapped tonight.  Kaylee felt a bit disinterested and unopinionated, but picked up the slack some when she started going at Celeste.  Celeste bothered me for a lot of the reasons that wish explained as town signs, tbh.  The unvote/timing, not so much.  Not at all, really, though I find the follow-through of "so I don't forget to unvote later" pretty weird.  Frustration at the attention the unvote drew was most certainly honest but null, and I'm pretty annoyed that she won't put in the effort to develop her read on me.  It's one of those things where why would scum keep doing it if she knows it's drawing attention, but lazyscum don't necessarily stop being lazyscum when you call them out on it.  Laine's comment about me and Lenlo still bugs me, and I know that as scum she tends to provide commentary for the sake of looking busy, but I sometimes get the same impression from highlydistractedandshortontimetown!Laine.  She made a comment irt Cass that I found interesting, want to see how she progresses over the next day or two.

[Zander?]

 

Question - Are you more a head or gut player usually?

They are often in conflict. I try to go with whatever I feel has been historically more accurate for specific kinds of situations.

 

Sometimes someone looks really scummy to me based on principles I have, but they can't be likely scum because scums haven't done that before in my long term memory.

 

Head must override gut at times but I do follow my instincts.

 

 

 

Wordy way of saying just saying depends imo......lolololololol

[alannalynn]

Not sarcasm. At least, what I said wasn't sarcasm.

I feel like Cass is going to nitpick everything I say this game and ask my why I put my left sock on instead of my right and I'm not going to know how to answer. LOL

 

 

Zander, would you hate me if I said I assigned alignments for funsies but I actually now kinda like those reads?

I could NEVER hate you Alanna  :wub:

 

But Id prolly hate the answer tho

Well, we'll just say that they weren't totally serious, mmk? <3

[alannalynn]

lol!Shad

[Shad_]

ok Pizza what was it from what we were talking about it the first post quoted to the reads list that dropped Turin so low.....what was it you said about yourself and easy to flip reads.....

Probably a towny observation for you.

[Zander?]

@ Shad dude wth are you seeing with Csarmi man???!!!  I dont get it....I mean not just a Town read but YOUR TOP TOWN READ???!!!?!?!?!?  WTF

 

And also Alanna has your scummiest is also pretty bad imo.

 

Sorry brother not seeing either of those like at all!!!!!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm painfully chewing through a Zander-only read of Belichick.

 

Absorbed: Not much.

 

He uses the word gross a lot

 

He is constantly defending townies for no real reason, generally being combative, disagreeable a lot, and yet +1s a lot of comments. Essentially he's just generating noise and attempting to replicate townie enthusiasm in a generic way.

 

His casing is sloppy as hell and it's getting people to notice that what he's saying isn't based on any sort of fact.

 

It's a lot of emotion and I like this and I don't like that and confrontationalism and townie cheerleading but it's all on the surface.

 

There's no real soul or paranoia to his game there.

 

That's my summary of Belichick so far, by page 35. It's just his D1 stuff.

 

The worrisome part is that a lot of what I'm seeing in this game gives me a similarly null impression. Like there was nothing in Zander's game in Belichick that I would have thought was overtly scummy.... or even that much of a town tell other than his general enthusiasm levels which we know now are exactly null.

 

But, there are some clear differences.

 

I'm noting the constant superlatives are not happening this game, he doesn't say gross a lot. And there's not as ostentatious town-like showboating.

 

I did notice Zander actually checked into the thread before doing reads to catch up in Belichick and that his catch ups just seemed to be mostly filler and pushing/defending, rather than substance.

 

With that in mind, chewing through another read of Zander.

[Shad_]

#232 Wish- like that she's giving reads and explaining herself. Expected her to come out more and , maybe if she was mafia, in an attempt to cover herself like she did in TUS where she was super flirty. Even if I didn't remember how she was in TUS d1, her TOANNN seems to be good. Would put her above Celeste, who I currently have as nullish.

Yes!  I wouldn't say "flirty" but I remember scum!Wish being really playful and jokey in TUS, far moreso than here.

[Zander?]

Not sarcasm. At least, what I said wasn't sarcasm.

I feel like Cass is going to nitpick everything I say this game and ask my why I put my left sock on instead of my right and I'm not going to know how to answer. LOL

 

 

Zander, would you hate me if I said I assigned alignments for funsies but I actually now kinda like those reads?

I could NEVER hate you Alanna  :wub:

 

But Id prolly hate the answer tho

Well, we'll just say that they weren't totally serious, mmk? <3

 

 

ok to the sarcasm part

 

Truthfully imo

 

Alanna you know I love ya but that answer makes me both uneasy and sad.....