[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

Celeste · January 15, 2016

Sleeping now too.

Nolder · January 15, 2016

Nolder, did you read everything in this game at least once over?
Yeah.
I'm sure I glazed over a few posts here and there but I never fell behind an entire page and didn't catch up.

I guess I don't understand why you would have thought me a good lynch candidate going into D2 if you were actually informed on the course of events prior. How did you reconcile your initial read on me with my treatment of Zander?

How does anyone reconcile such things? They shrug and say it's WIFOM and focus on more substantial concerns.

Wait.

WIFOM?

Then why did you drop your case on Pizza before he claimed the vig shot?

Or try this: briefly summarize (no rereading needed) how you recall my posts irt Zander on D1 and N1.

A lot of it had to do with guilt believe it or not.
I felt bad for pushing him so hard.

I recall you guys fighting. Why?

Guilt over what? He might have been scum.

"Fighting" is an odd characterization of it. Do you recall what conclusions I drew?

Over being wrong mainly. Embarrassed too. Like I said to Alanna I thought I made a post about this and it turns out I didn't.
I spent like 15-30mins typing and retyping a post to him and I thought I finally posted it but I didn't.

I mean IDK I don't want to get weird and emo about it I just didn't feel good about being wrong ok?

I said that from the getgo at start of D2 although I was combative about it.

No I don't.

I'd have to reread it's been 120 pages since then you know?

Do you think it's important that I do?

How does it help us resolve today when I'm not aiming to lynch you today?

It's between me and Celeste (and maybe Cass I guess? IDK)

I heaped a mountain of suss on Zander while Pral and Kaylee were the leading targets. At a point when csarmi was getting strung up, I drew a ton of attention to that and started shouting for Zander's head. After csarmi was lynched, I presented a hard case on him and created a scenario where Zander was never living to see N2. These are things you shouldn't have to pay terribly much attention to notice. Hell, Pizza brought up that I lead the kill on Zander repeatedly long after the game had slowed down.

I don't know how you can have me as your second lowest scum read and not notice these things.

I thought you switched to a town lean on Pizza because he wrecked csarmi D1?

Can you answer my question about how any of this is important?

I think you're just trying to waste my time here and keep me off Celeste's case which is why I ask.

Why is this relevant to today?

Nolder · January 15, 2016

Nolder, I recognize you're occupied with other things atm. Please address my last post to you at some point tonight.

Sorry I missed your post. Got it now.

Nolder · January 15, 2016

p6 first mention of Rustlemania and end of page 2/9

[unvote] Ok. Shad is actually shaping up it seems. Ugh I need to reread I think.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

[unvote] Ok. Shad is actually shaping up it seems. Ugh I need to reread I think.

Can you explain what changed?

Thinking about your recent scum hunting while at work. I need to interact with Turin, Pral, and Csarmi more.

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Writing a reads list now.

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Pizza: Scum hunting and overly good townish tone.

Cass: Reminds me of the two games I have played with her where we were both town. I haven't seen her as mafia but she is analyzing the thread and scum.

Wish-tree: Gut vibe and the fact that is she is spewing how well she reads me. The only reservation I have is buddying.

Laine: I want to see her post thoughts and I have a tiny voice in my head saying she is probably town.

Zander: He baffles me and honestly I don't know how to read him. His thought process of Wish/I read though is townish.

Csarmi: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Turin: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Leno: Absolutely null.

Shad: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Kaylee: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Nolder: Something about his question reminded me of Rustlemania. It just doesn't seem like he is town. Although he is fairly absent which makes him null.

Pralaya: Needs to post more but he also reminds me of his play in TUS.

FIRST MENTION OF RUSTLEMANIA. NO EXPLANATION OF HOW SHE WAS REMINDED OF RUSTLEMANIA OR WHAT IS SIMILAR/DIFFERENT

Only page 47?

That's okay. I'll be able to deliver today. I had my Sooh time and my rest.

Today was slow catch up after I came back from work.

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Pizza: Scum hunting and overly good townish tone.

Cass: Reminds me of the two games I have played with her where we were both town. I haven't seen her as mafia but she is analyzing the thread and scum.

Wish-tree: Gut vibe and the fact that is she is spewing how well she reads me. The only reservation I have is buddying.

Laine: I want to see her post thoughts and I have a tiny voice in my head saying she is probably town.

Zander: He baffles me and honestly I don't know how to read him. His thought process of Wish/I read though is townish.

Csarmi: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Turin: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Leno: Absolutely null.

Shad: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Kaylee: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Nolder: Something about his question reminded me of Rustlemania. It just doesn't seem like he is town. Although he is fairly absent which makes him null.

Pralaya: Needs to post more but he also reminds me of his play in TUS.

Concerning Pral one post about catching up makes him your Top Scum read? Do you normally feel like low posters on inactivity is Scummy? Like nobody else in all their posting makes you feel worse then him?

It's a slight one and usually I don't have a lot of scum reads till after a flip.

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Celeste, do you think wish's scum game has changed a fair bit over the past few months?
She has only played scum in turbos and that is rare. Full games lately have been town roles.

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Besides what I have said in my reads list, it seems like fluff posts keep popping up after a discussion. That kind of gives of a safe area for scum.

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I would be shocked as hell if I ever had a day one that approaches my past 4 games on this site.

Even the Darthe game, you could see clear differences. Lots of post count, but I think i spent a lot more time complaining about the posts per page, the number of pages to read, pretending to be behind, and generally dipping out of the thread within an hour or so.

Like, my patterns are sadly obvious but no one gives a crap enough to see those patterns. It's shameful really. But hey, if that's what I can do, that's what I can get away with, and that's what wins as scum, I'm going to tell people to their faces that's what I do as scum and then keep doing it.

It's really up to the other players to make that change.

How many scum games have you lost and won compared with your town games.

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Turin seems to be looking for any loose info to twist. Reminds me of the time I tried to get away with Tanya's lynch in Raganorak but Mish called me out for wrong facts. It just looks like poor mafia play a bit.

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Shad_ · January 15, 2016

Nolder, did you read everything in this game at least once over?
Yeah.
I'm sure I glazed over a few posts here and there but I never fell behind an entire page and didn't catch up.

I guess I don't understand why you would have thought me a good lynch candidate going into D2 if you were actually informed on the course of events prior. How did you reconcile your initial read on me with my treatment of Zander?

How does anyone reconcile such things? They shrug and say it's WIFOM and focus on more substantial concerns.

Wait.

WIFOM?

Then why did you drop your case on Pizza before he claimed the vig shot?

Or try this: briefly summarize (no rereading needed) how you recall my posts irt Zander on D1 and N1.

A lot of it had to do with guilt believe it or not.
I felt bad for pushing him so hard.

I recall you guys fighting. Why?

Guilt over what? He might have been scum.

"Fighting" is an odd characterization of it. Do you recall what conclusions I drew?

Over being wrong mainly. Embarrassed too. Like I said to Alanna I thought I made a post about this and it turns out I didn't.
I spent like 15-30mins typing and retyping a post to him and I thought I finally posted it but I didn't.

I mean IDK I don't want to get weird and emo about it I just didn't feel good about being wrong ok?

I said that from the getgo at start of D2 although I was combative about it.

No I don't.

I'd have to reread it's been 120 pages since then you know?

Do you think it's important that I do?

How does it help us resolve today when I'm not aiming to lynch you today?

It's between me and Celeste (and maybe Cass I guess? IDK)

I heaped a mountain of suss on Zander while Pral and Kaylee were the leading targets. At a point when csarmi was getting strung up, I drew a ton of attention to that and started shouting for Zander's head. After csarmi was lynched, I presented a hard case on him and created a scenario where Zander was never living to see N2. These are things you shouldn't have to pay terribly much attention to notice. Hell, Pizza brought up that I lead the kill on Zander repeatedly long after the game had slowed down.

I don't know how you can have me as your second lowest scum read and not notice these things.

I thought you switched to a town lean on Pizza because he wrecked csarmi D1?

Can you answer my question about how any of this is important?

I think you're just trying to waste my time here and keep me off Celeste's case which is why I ask.

Why is this relevant to today?

See this is such a town!Nolder response.

He's not even humoring the improbability that I would single-handedly take down my deep wolf second partner even as my outed first partner is going down then bank on no one wondering why I live to see lylo.

It's kind of nuts.

But scum!Nolder wants to appease me here, at least a little. Town!Nolder never gives a damn.

Could he be faking it? Is he really capable of faking it this well as scum? Not in my experience. There are plenty of other games to look at if I find the energy after investigating wish, but I have my doubts.

Shad_ · January 15, 2016

*I wouldn't say that he's not capable of faking it like this. That I don't know. I'd say I've never seen him try to. It's not how he scums, in my experience.

Shad_ · January 15, 2016

Going to bed for reals now.

Nolder · January 15, 2016

Goodnight Shad.

Nolder · January 15, 2016

p7

It also looks like a change of tone from the null posts you pointed out Pizza. It took a forced turn instead of naturally asking questions tone. The thing is it doesn't look like he follows up with his questions.

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Lenlo I really suggest you read Raganorak for differences in my play. I was a godfather in that game hydrating with Wish. We are different this game.

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@Zander Curosity and also for seeing inconsistencies down the road.

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Lenlo I really suggest you read Raganorak for differences in my play. I was a godfather in that game hydrating with Wish. We are different this game.
I was in Raganorak. I was 3/4 on my WTL in that game if I remember right to.

Looks like I have more reading to do.

I loved them!

Then you must remember that my focus was different. I was much more around to screw info and stick to one person here. My reads didn't have many nulls. Your wtl is wrong here.

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Lenlo I really suggest you read Raganorak for differences in my play. I was a godfather in that game hydrating with Wish. We are different this game.
I was in Raganorak. I was 3/4 on my WTL in that game if I remember right to.

Looks like I have more reading to do.

I loved them!

Then you must remember that my focus was different. I was much more around to screw info and stick to one person here. My reads didn't have many nulls. Your wtl is wrong here.

Well apologies if I dont take your word for it. People can play differently and still be the same alignment.

Why can't you just look over facts? All your doing really is sheeping a case you didn't even make.

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Celeste: who should we lynch today and why?

I'm really not sure because it looks like everybody is just townie and I need something more. A flip, a mislynch, even a slip so I don't make a mistake. What's really making me get sort of reaction like is that people won't even look at my other games here that I was mafia in except shad.

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Celeste: who should we lynch today and why?
I'm really not sure because it looks like everybody is just townie and I need something more. A flip, a mislynch, even a slip so I don't make a mistake. What's really making me get sort of reaction like is that people won't even look at my other games here that I was mafia in except shad.

I prefer to just work in the current game. I try not to swayed meta if possible. I can't blame you for not being sure since I'm in same boat, but at least give a few names you're less sure of.

Look at my reads list, I don't really have strong scum reads. Let me ask you this then Do I look uniformed or informed in my posts?

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Turin said he would be around yesterday right? Then why did he claim now when deadline is tomorrow and he said he would be around?

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Turin said he would be around tomorrow right? Then why did he claim now when deadline is tomorrow and he said he would be around?
Blah Ebwop

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Turin said he would be around yesterday right? Then why did he claim now when deadline is tomorrow and he said he would be around?
I presume so that he's not lynched between now and then since he said he'd be gone until tomorrow around deadline.

Isn't that a bit contradictory then?

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Nolder · January 15, 2016

p8

Lenlo I really suggest you read Raganorak for differences in my play. I was a godfather in that game hydrating with Wish. We are different this game.

Dude not everybody can be super obvious town and have the same generic tells. You might not like this post but it's true

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Celeste: who should we lynch today and why?
I'm really not sure because it looks like everybody is just townie and I need something more. A flip, a mislynch, even a slip so I don't make a mistake. What's really making me get sort of reaction like is that people won't even look at my other games here that I was mafia in except shad.

I prefer to just work in the current game. I try not to swayed meta if possible. I can't blame you for not being sure since I'm in same boat, but at least give a few names you're less sure of.

Look at my reads list, I don't really have strong scum reads. Let me ask you this then Do I look uniformed or informed in my posts?

You look lazy imo. I tend to find lazy scummy fwiw.

Well I have posted a lot more here than my other games I'm currently in.

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I'm willing to look at Celeste's last two wolf games.

Celeste, you said Ragnarok, and what was the other one?

Links please?

Another one is the bulba game Lenny linked. I did not play that well. A town game is the hobbit link that Lenny posted.

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I'm Alette on bulba and Lady Grinch in the hobbit.

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Celeste is pretty lurkerish.

I used to hate it too.

Can you really read her as scummy for doing so?

Some people make it a playstyle.

Why is being proud of posting bad? (Are you saying it is?)

ALSO

I'm in full gear now that my game has started.

(and plus, check out my excuses as town, too. :P)

I'm not as lurkish as Kito but I do tend to just observe at times.

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I'm iso'ing Celeste as she was the bottom of my POE after Turin.

I'm not done.

But a loooot of the early stuff is null to me until...

431 "I was just curious about that one little thing ok. I'm not a wolf and I know my role. This is very different from my last two DM games where I was mafia too. If you want to look for a wolfy post from me than see the difference between Raganorak and here."

***** ISO CELESTE IN RAGNAROK.

And....

438 If it helps you guys I'm not really an early game player so all I have are my gut reads and observations until a flip happens.

442 I already said she is slight town with the reservations I hold. I know you guys find this whole interplay thing we do weird but it's because we read and work with each other really well. It was weird how Zander is slightly pushing Lenny for defending me. It's completely within her town range too. If you won't listen to me than listen to Cass who knows we can read each other well.

449 Well than excuse you for not seeing that I don't have the average tells of a townie because y'all are too focused on average tells. I'm still looking and not certain with reads except for the one's on Cass and Wish. The whole fact that y'all are pushing into a defensive corner doesn't help because it blocks the scum hunting. If you guys are so adamant that I'm not a townie than congrats you have your first mislynch. I'm done defending this little issue with the timing of my unvote.

457 That looks like it would be the turn out if you have seen the events that have taken place.

498 Mmm called it.500 Vote: Shad I don't like the vibes i'm getting from him. His tone is scummy to me as well.****** Elaborate on Shad.518

1. It's because I actually know her meta and personality outside of DM so I can figure it out better than you.

2. I'm pretty pissed atm over the close minded thoughts you and others seem to be having

3. I don't AtE

4. If you haven't noticed the early suspicion always gets bandwagoned at the end of almost every D1.

I still have questions but this section of Celeste's Iso is a good look.

She might actually be really easy to read.

She's saying that she is, that this game is wildly different from her past 2 scum games.

Now, I'm not saying that clears her.

I am just saying if I can't get a handle on her game here by itself, it's worth looking into what she says her meta is in the past 2 consecutive wolf games and also her past townie game.

If it's really different and this game is in the townie camp then that's something. It's not proof but it's much more than a null lean.

I'm only half done and most of the rest of the iso looks more content heavy.

But my first inclination halfway through this ISO is to not lynch Celeste; to do the work and read those games she cited.

There's also a frustrated townie peeking through that green section.

@ Celeste, can you go into more detail as to what you felt about Shad (at the time, I need to know what you felt at the time. Now isn't what I'm asking about. Very specific.)

It seemed a lot like fluffing to just post and not be figured out. His chat with Lenlo was very odd to me. The tone just seemed null.

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Penny Post http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96393-basicstandard-warcraft-war-of-the-ancients-mafia-day-one/?p=3588497

It wouldnt let me quote this post for its too big.

Resorting to name calling now are we.....lololololololololol

I read quite well....Hooked On Phonics Worked For Me!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcITeGy-U6w

Lenny he did it again..

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@ Celeste and since then your read improved, yes?

Where would you say was the tipping point for you on Shad?

when he decided to ISO Lenny and I.

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Lenlo I really suggest you read Raganorak for differences in my play. I was a godfather in that game hydrating with Wish. We are different this game.

Dude not everybody can be super obvious town and have the same generic tells. You might not like this post but it's true

I dont like this post. And you guys seem too sure of each other especially Wish,

I wish that you would read what I wrote to you....

Zander.

So that means you can ignore my posts?

:/

this reminds me of Liz in the hobbit. (I love you Liz and hope Chris doesn't tell you about this)

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Nolder · January 15, 2016

p9 IF YOU READ NO OTHER PART READ THIS ONE

also end of page 3/9 posts

gonna take a quick break before starting page 4

@ Wish

Laine hasn't done anything wrong, per se, but I've got too many people high on my list for her to be dark green.

Using your scale she should be light green imo. If she's a wolf that might explain why I'm struggling so damned hard.

I think Cass should be higher.

I think Nolder should stop screwing around. Otherwise yeah, that list looks okay. But my reads are changing due to the Iso process. I'm going to see things I didn't notice before. So I don't know. Let me get back to you.

The thing that makes me iffy with Nolder is this reminds me of Rustlemania and how he pushed Razen.

ANOTHER REFERENCE TO RUSTLEMANIA, THIS TIME WITH A TIDBIT OF AN EXPLANATION BUT IT WOULD REQUIRE MASSIVE DIGGING AND QUESTIONING OF CELESTE TO FIGURE OUT HOW PUSHING RASEN IN RUSTLEMANIA IS SIMILAR TO THIS GAME. INSTEAD I COULD JUST ASK CELESTE AND I DO.

@Pizza http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=2011

LINK TO RUSTLEMANIA

@Laine What is your read on Nolder currently? Also does he remind you of rustlemania at all?

RUSTLEMANIA AGAIN, IIRC THIS IS THE POST I FINALLY QUOTED AND ASKED HER WHAT SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT

I will explain tomorrow once I wake up. Pretty exhausted from mafia already.

ANNNND SHE'S GONE

One more post before I go to bed. I have explained the nolder thing before. Maybe not in great detail but I did talk about it. I'm exhausted and most likely will respond back if I can't pry myself away from my phone.

READ THIS POST. READ IT AGAIN. READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS I WENT THROUGH. THEN GO READ HER ISO FOR YOURSELF. THERE WAS NEVER AN EXPLANATION.

One more post before I go to bed. I have explained the nolder thing before. Maybe not in great detail but I did talk about it. I'm exhausted and most likely will respond back if I can't pry myself away from my phone.
I must have missed it because I don't remember you talking about it.

Seems like some posts of mine are just being glanced over.

I THOUGHT AT THE TIME I WAS JUST MISSING IT BUT NOPE. THERE IS NO EXPLANATION. SHE ARGUES PREEMPTIVELY THAT SHE DID EXPLAIN BUT DIDN'T GO INTO DETAIL. WILL SHE EVER GO INTO DETAIL? LETS CONTINUE AND FIND OUT.

Nolder · January 15, 2016

Alright I've been playing around for awhile now.

Back to work.

Nolder · January 15, 2016

p10

@Pizza Is it her saying fair enough and not really having a stance on much. (Bah I should be asleep)

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My main concern with holder is he is feeling off in his posts like I got in Rustlemania. I don't know why he seems off to me but he does. Also what is the basic setup here?

ANOTHER RUSTLEMANIA REFERENCE. THIS IS AFTER ASKING HER FOR AN EXPLANATION BUT INSTEAD OF REFRENCING THE EXPLANATION SHE SUPPOSEDLY ALREADY GAVE SHE GOES ON TO SAY I DONT KNOW WHY HE SEEMS OFF BUT HE DOES. THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. THIS IS WHAT THE 4TH TIME SHE'S REFERENCED RUSTLEMANIA? SHE IS TRYING TO DRIVE SOME SORT OF POINT HERE BUT IS AVOIDING ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT IT.

My main concern with holder is he is feeling off in his posts like I got in Rustlemania. I don't know why he seems off to me but he does. Also what is the basic setup here?
Pretty sure this is the 4th time.

How far are you going to push that with nothing more then "I don't know why, but he does" Celeste?

I don't have much ok but simple weird pings and stuff like that. I don't know how to be very obvious town and look for inconsistencies with players I don't know well. I'm going to be low posting today because I spent too much time with mafia games yesterday.

SIMPLE WEIRD PINGS DOESN'T TELL ME WHAT I AM DOING THIS GAME OR WHAT I DID IN RUSTLEMANIA THAT IS BOTHERING HER.
IT IS INTENTIONALLY VAGUE LANGUAGE.

Where's Celeste?
here.

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Ok caught up. I feel like voting pizza is semi outting but not sure why.

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Ok caught up. I feel like voting pizza is semi outting but not sure why.
what does this mean

One of my random thoughts catching up like getting caught.

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Ok caught up. I feel like voting pizza is semi outting but not sure why.
what does this mean

One of my random thoughts catching up like getting caught.

Ok. Lets dissect it. How does voting pizza semi out anything? Out him? Out you? Out Niel Patrick Harris? Who?

I'm curious too, Lassie

spur of the moment but I think I saw another vote on Pizza? Bah idk >.<

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Pral, Xander, Celeste, Csarmi all wasting their votes currently.
I'm trying not to maj if y'all want the full discussion period.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

Pral, Xander, Celeste, Csarmi all wasting their votes currently.
I'm trying not to maj if y'all want the full discussion period

When do you need to be afk?

I'm fine holding the hammer on Csarmi if it is at L-1.

I'm here now till the lynch.

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I need to read some pages I missed.

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Csarmi in TUS was very underwhelming to me. Not sure if that is how he usually plays as mafia though.

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Village Core: Laine, Pizza, Wish, and Cass

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I see csarmi at L-1. Is someone standing by to hammer?
I think it will be me or Pizza when deadline is closer.

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Nolder · January 15, 2016

p11

I see csarmi at L-1. Is someone standing by to hammer?
I think it will be me or Pizza when deadline is closer.

That is a very odd statement. Why?

Earlier on he said he would hammer I believe?

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MOD NOTE:

At my lovely comod's request I will attempt to make future deadlines during morning hours MST before I leave for work, in order to ensure that her mafia-obsessed fiance actually sleeps.

Busted by Sooh Pizza *chuckles*

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[v]Csarmi[/v]

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I read you town on approach and stress level Cass. I think you wolfing while Cory h3lping you would be hard. Not finding the right words sorry. You would wanna prove more and be somewhat froz3n? Is that the right wording?
I think this is Csarmi trying to shade cass. Looking into his post at the moment.

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Actually I will finish looking at Csarmi's ISO when I wake up.

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Celeste, how do you feel about wish aorn?
~~I should be asleep now but one last post~~

The way she analyzed and never actually stopped scum hunting while defending herself is very town like for Wish. I feel even better than before about my read on her.

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Ok. Sorry I haven't been here in a while. Zander pushed Lenny/me a lot which makes me think we were his scape goats. I also wanted to say earlier that Csarmi town read Zander before scum reading him I believe.

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3-4 mafia for 13 players? Agreed or Disagreed

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Kind of not feeling good on Kaylee with how much Zander said they are mind melding.

[v]Kaylee[/v]

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Ok. Sorry I haven't been here in a while. Zander pushed Lenny/me a lot which makes me think we were his scape goats. I also wanted to say earlier that Csarmi town read Zander before scum reading him I believe.

Kind of not feeling good on Kaylee with how much Zander said they are mind melding.

[v]Kaylee[/v]

I'm not opposed to this but I really need to figure you two out.

The vibe I got toward EoD was that Kaylee did a lot to get out of her lynch, and she did it well. This could come from Scum or Town Kaylee IMO. My gut feel later was that she could be scum bussing Csarmi and buddying me once Csarmi started going down (if I've understood correctly, this is in Kaylee's meta and something she does well). It was a strong feel and FWIW if she's the scum this fits with Shad's theory that I'm scum scapegoat in Zander's eyes. There were a couple of things she said that I thought were either indications that she was genuinely more confident that I was Town or buddying me. It freaked me out a little and I backed off to see how she'd respond today. I wish I could trust her, but I don't.

On the other hand, I always read Kay scum. She's impossible for me. She could be Town.

@Penny

I think you're probably Town, but I can't lock you in yet, and I'd feel better if I could.

1. Why are you pulling out Kaylee in particular? IMO he mentioned mind-melding much more noticeably with Laine.

2. What do you make of Nolder, Lenlo, Pral?

General thought: If there is a Godfather, it's probably not Wish.

Unless you think Zander hard busses his GF on day 1.

Also, love the hard work you put in last night but we have to reconsider EoD in light of confirmed competing scum trains.

blue was @ Laine btw

I can see Zander hard bussing GF D1, for sure.

Where are you at on Nolder and Pral?

1. Laine seemed to have some reservations to Zander saying they are mind melding I believe. Kaylee didn't have any hesitant thoughts at all to it.

2. Pral I have been suspicious of. This feels like his scum play. Nolder needs to be looked at closely today. Lenlo is still iffy because he tunneled me most of yesterday. Didn't seem to be looking elsewhere.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

1. Laine seemed to have some reservations to Zander saying they are mind melding I believe. Kaylee didn't have any hesitant thoughts at all to it.

2. Pral I have been suspicious of. This feels like his scum play. Nolder needs to be looked at closely today. Lenlo is still iffy because he tunneled me most of yesterday. Didn't seem to be looking elsewhere.

I like red from you. Shows you're thinking and paying attention.

That's pretty much my D1 if people want me to provide some facts later on with my gut reads.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

I need to look into Turin a bit more. I believe a clue could be in his posts. I'm on my phone though.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

I couldn't finish ISOing Zander last night.

a) I had seen enough

b) I was tired af

c) Sooh was going to bed and I wanted cuddle tiems

d) I was kinda hoping a vig would shoot Zander so I wouldn't have to continue

Good shot, vig. That was never a SK because a scum went down already, outed doctor, the scums would shoot the doctor, so you know you have a free shot on obvious townies like myself.

Ergo, we have a lock clear vigilante.

This isn't really clear to me since the SK would still have to get rid of mafia to win. Idk what basic setup is on DM. So I just might be blabbering.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

@Cass will get to your question once I get on laptop.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Nolder · January 15, 2016

p12

DONT KNOW WTF HAPPENED TO THESE QUOTES BUT NONE HAVE TO DO WITH ME OR RUSTLEMANIA

Anyways I really should sleep now.

IMO put Shad and myself on Ignore mode when you do re-reads.

Those people should be blue.

Nolder.

Pizza, I'm going to be honest and say it's posts like this of yours and Cory's that freak me out. I have you Town, but it's a silly move to ever put you blue IMO.

What's do you actually mean by 'Nolder'?

It's a silly move to say that certain players can never be blue.

Context, Cass. Nolder begrudgingly admits I'm not the top suspect.

I'm blue. Deal with it.

I'm going to be honest here, if I heard anybody say that on my home site I would place my vote ASAP. It's pretty pingy to me but not sure how other sites handle such statements.

Feel free.
i was just stating that. The rest of my statement was me not knowing how it applies here but just saying it's odd. Laine I need to sleep.

Oh gosh I remember the last game I lost it in as town now. Yeah, I will link it once I'm on a laptop.

Turin's ISO leaves me unimpressed, he was pocketed by Zander big time. Shad was in his WTL a lot but I think he is slight town now. Kind of makes me think hypothetically what would a deep wolfing Shad look like? I felt like his points were wish washy in a way with his tunneling too.

Ok. Sorry I haven't been here in a while. Zander pushed Lenny/me a lot which makes me think we were his scape goats. I also wanted to say earlier that Csarmi town read Zander before scum reading him I believe.

Kind of not feeling good on Kaylee with how much Zander said they are mind melding.
[v]Kaylee[/v]

I'm not opposed to this but I really need to figure you two out.

The vibe I got toward EoD was that Kaylee did a lot to get out of her lynch, and she did it well. This could come from Scum or Town Kaylee IMO. My gut feel later was that she could be scum bussing Csarmi and buddying me once Csarmi started going down (if I've understood correctly, this is in Kaylee's meta and something she does well). It was a strong feel and FWIW if she's the scum this fits with Shad's theory that I'm scum scapegoat in Zander's eyes. There were a couple of things she said that I thought were either indications that she was genuinely more confident that I was Town or buddying me. It freaked me out a little and I backed off to see how she'd respond today. I wish I could trust her, but I don't.

On the other hand, I always read Kay scum. She's impossible for me. She could be Town.

@Penny
I think you're probably Town, but I can't lock you in yet, and I'd feel better if I could.

1. Why are you pulling out Kaylee in particular? IMO he mentioned mind-melding much more noticeably with Laine.

2. What do you make of Nolder, Lenlo, Pral?

General thought: If there is a Godfather, it's probably not Wish.

Unless you think Zander hard busses his GF on day 1.

Also, love the hard work you put in last night but we have to reconsider EoD in light of confirmed competing scum trains.

blue was @ Laine btw

I can see Zander hard bussing GF D1, for sure.

Where are you at on Nolder and Pral?

1. Laine seemed to have some reservations to Zander saying they are mind melding I believe. Kaylee didn't have any hesitant thoughts at all to it.

2. Pral I have been suspicious of. This feels like his scum play. Nolder needs to be looked at closely today. Lenlo is still iffy because he tunneled me most of yesterday. Didn't seem to be looking elsewhere.

Oh Penny, what am I going to do with you??

1. Ok, good point. Why is this enough to vote? Have you got anything else?

2. Give me examples of how Pral's play feels scummy to you. Explain as much as you can.

While we're at it, please find me some examples where you've cracked under pressure when Town.

If you're Town, I feel I intuitively get you now. I can't fully trust that yet though, I haven't seen all of your content and I haven't seen you scum :P

*snipped*
*snipped*

1. It just felt right in a way. I just feel like Kaylee has more wolf equity with her talking of Zander in a way than others.

2. I really can't explain gut vibes well, you just have to believe me on them. http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Ft5AzhkhYF4W I don't remember where it got rough but it was a horrible loss of temper for me.

Nolder · January 15, 2016

p13

Reading.

Where I'm at:

Popular opinion is- do not lynch- me, Pizza, Laine, Shad, Lenlo

Will start to answer about what I think about Celeste.

I actually haven't heard much from her on Skype in a few days. Unsure if it's work or other things keeping her.

Her lack of activity is null, but you're right, it isn't looking good for her atm. I'm not going to try to lock clear her for other people, and I will defend her, but if she doesn't step it up, it'll be hard for me to do so.

I can't just keep tone/meta reading her if she doesn't put in the actual work. Even I may doubt. (That's when you know you should put in more work, Lassie.)

Work, sister time, and my recently connected PS3...

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

And this went silent during my brief return and leave. Anyways Lenlo if your cop why didn't you just investigate me? Instead of always voting me every chance you get.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

All of Celeste's posts since the flip last night.

Ok. Sorry I haven't been here in a while. Zander pushed Lenny/me a lot which makes me think we were his scape goats. I also wanted to say earlier that Csarmi town read Zander before scum reading him I believe.

This to me reads as "See Wish and I can't be scum since Zander was making us his scape goats". First off I believe that was true of Wish. He didn't spend as much time on Celeste doing it. The " a lot " is a stretch for her unless I'm remembering wrong. Overall this post could be null to scum.

He was though in a way focusing on me too but it was a bit different from Wish. He was reluctant to view my meta while he understood yours or others "please see my meta" arguments. That is still scapegoating imo.

3-4 mafia for 13 players? Agreed or Disagreed

Null statement focusing on mechanics.

I better understand the game through mechanics. It's info that I can analyze with current posts. The results I get don't fail me most of the time.

Kind of not feeling good on Kaylee with how much Zander said they are mind melding.

[v]Kaylee[/v]

Out of everything she could vote me for this seems like weak reasoning. At least go with the case Piazza made. Scummy

I do my own cases, not sheep others. It gives a totally different view of someone that can solve the game quicker.

Ok. Sorry I haven't been here in a while. Zander pushed Lenny/me a lot which makes me think we were his scape goats. I also wanted to say earlier that Csarmi town read Zander before scum reading him I believe.

Kind of not feeling good on Kaylee with how much Zander said they are mind melding.

[v]Kaylee[/v]

I'm not opposed to this but I really need to figure you two out.

The vibe I got toward EoD was that Kaylee did a lot to get out of her lynch, and she did it well. This could come from Scum or Town Kaylee IMO. My gut feel later was that she could be scum bussing Csarmi and buddying me once Csarmi started going down (if I've understood correctly, this is in Kaylee's meta and something she does well). It was a strong feel and FWIW if she's the scum this fits with Shad's theory that I'm scum scapegoat in Zander's eyes. There were a couple of things she said that I thought were either indications that she was genuinely more confident that I was Town or buddying me. It freaked me out a little and I backed off to see how she'd respond today. I wish I could trust her, but I don't.

On the other hand, I always read Kay scum. She's impossible for me. She could be Town.

@Penny

I think you're probably Town, but I can't lock you in yet, and I'd feel better if I could.

1. Why are you pulling out Kaylee in particular? IMO he mentioned mind-melding much more noticeably with Laine.

2. What do you make of Nolder, Lenlo, Pral?

General thought: If there is a Godfather, it's probably not Wish.

Unless you think Zander hard busses his GF on day 1.

Also, love the hard work you put in last night but we have to reconsider EoD in light of confirmed competing scum trains.

blue was @ Laine btw

I can see Zander hard bussing GF D1, for sure.

Where are you at on Nolder and Pral?

1. Laine seemed to have some reservations to Zander saying they are mind melding I believe. Kaylee didn't have any hesitant thoughts at all to it.
2. Pral I have been suspicious of. This feels like his scum play.[\b] Nolder needs to be looked at closely today. Lenlo is still iffy because he tunneled me most of yesterday. Didn't seem to be looking elsewhere.

OK so you vote me for weak reasoning. While explaining that reasoning you say the bold. Wait what?! If your feel he's on his scum game and is scummy why not vote there? It would make more sense. Why vote someone who "mind melded" with a known scummy over someone you feel is scummy and on their scum game? Really scummy.

Because Pral is someone I need to triple check. He's started quiet and I think his posts are mostly null. I need more from him and his type of play style doesn't really react to pressure votes.

1. Laine seemed to have some reservations to Zander saying they are mind melding I believe. Kaylee didn't have any hesitant thoughts at all to it.

2. Pral I have been suspicious of. This feels like his scum play. Nolder needs to be looked at closely today. Lenlo is still iffy because he tunneled me most of yesterday. Didn't seem to be looking elsewhere.

I like red from you. Shows you're thinking and paying attention.

That's pretty much my D1 if people want me to provide some facts later on with my gut reads.



What about what's happened D2, besides what I've just pointed out.

We wait and see.

I need to look into Turin a bit more. I believe a clue could be in his posts. I'm on my phone though.

Still interested in hearing this.

I couldn't finish ISOing Zander last night.

a) I had seen enough

b) I was tired af

c) Sooh was going to bed and I wanted cuddle tiems

d) I was kinda hoping a vig would shoot Zander so I wouldn't have to continue

Good shot, vig. That was never a SK because a scum went down already, outed doctor, the scums would shoot the doctor, so you know you have a free shot on obvious townies like myself.

Ergo, we have a lock clear vigilante.

This isn't really clear to me since the SK would still have to get rid of mafia to win. Idk what basic setup is on DM. So I just might be blabbering.

Seems clear but OK. Null statement.



@Cass will get to your question once I get on laptop.

Look forward to it. (Another promise of work. I'd null unless she doesn't do it).

Anyways I really should sleep now.
Nothing here but it was another of her posts so I added it.



IMO put Shad and myself on Ignore mode when you do re-reads.

Those people should be blue.

Nolder.

Pizza, I'm going to be honest and say it's posts like this of yours and Cory's that freak me out. I have you Town, but it's a silly move to ever put you blue IMO.

What's do you actually mean by 'Nolder'?

It's a silly move to say that certain players can never be blue.

Context, Cass. Nolder begrudgingly admits I'm not the top suspect.

I'm blue. Deal with it.

I'm going to be honest here, if I heard anybody say that on my home site I would place my vote ASAP. It's pretty pingy to me but not sure how other sites handle such statements.

Possibly an attempt to fling dirt piazzas way.

I was being honest and direct to the thread. I'm not hiding my thoughts of fishy posts.



Feel free.
i was just stating that. The rest of my statement was me not knowing how it applies here but just saying it's odd. Laine I need to sleep.

Backs off.



Oh gosh I remember the last game I lost it in as town now. Yeah, I will link it once I'm on a laptop.
Again doesn't say much unless she doesn't follow through.

Overall not a good look IMOH. A lot of null but some scummy stuff as well. Considering I expected her to step up her game I'm not impressed. Guess we'll see what she had to say when she's back online. I could switch my vote to her at this point.

Responses in blue.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

Nolder · January 15, 2016

p14

formatting got messed up in the last couple parts sorry

this is the end of 5/9 pages of posts

I will get to the responses soon though

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Things I forget to tell Cass with the link. I just replaced in during the night.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

I need food and a bit of a break

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Turin's ISO leaves me unimpressed, he was pocketed by Zander big time. Shad was in his WTL a lot but I think he is slight town now. Kind of makes me think hypothetically what would a deep wolfing Shad look like? I felt like his points were wish washy in a way with his tunneling too.
Lassie, explain the green part?

I felt like his points for pushes was the result of tunneling which makes it wish washy to me.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Celeste: I'd like you to dig into this for me (blue parts).

Shad: What theory are you talking about here (purple part)? (I think this is what Cass wrote)

Cass: The part in red I've highlighted is really pingy to me. I don't know what to do with it. Please explain it and what your current read of Kaylee is.

In Shad's post? Or something else. This isn't quite clear to me.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

What do you mean by molding?
Blah blending I mean.

No, seriously. Who should we view here?

I can't think of a view that comes to mind outside of the bottom two in my poe, and we're lynching one of those two today, and likely vigging the other or lynching the other tomorrow.

And a view could be useless unless it's exactly a guilty result.

An innocent view on our villagers doesn't tell us that much. Only a red view of our villagers would be helpful.

Everything is molding together atm. Where is your PoE list again?

Lenny you didn't answer my question.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Vig.....

Well, vig Celeste then. No sense dragging it out, gives us time to re-assess.

Terrible idea. I'm actually trying and telling the vig who to shoot has more chances of hitting town imo. How do we even know if it's a vig? I just can't believe y'all just accept claims like that. Believe me or don't believe me but I am town.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

I'm honestly baffled that you guys don't seem to give the concept scummy town much thought.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

My name is Broxigar Saurfang, and I kill wolves.
well I'm telling you that I'm town and it's completely pissing me off how much people don't even take my efforts into consideration. I'm not mafia pizza.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Celeste I gave you plenty of time to town-tell.

Time's up.

Pralaya, then you, is generous of me.

THEN GET THE FACT THAT I DON'T REALLY TOWN TELL EASILY. I don't really do the normal town tells and I'm called scummy for that. It gets annoying to be a mislynch when you aren't even looking at my posts clearing and thinking about it.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Cass · January 15, 2016

Here and catching up. Have half hour to hour max if anyone wants to chat.

Gut and head still say Nolder most likely here. I'm only really hesitating because fear/others saying they really think that he is Town, and self-doubt because I'm not caught up on anybody else. The first part is probably silly of me and the second I'm hoping to remedy some with the time we have remaining. FTR I want all the time I can get to question things/eliminate some doubt. Less than 24hrs til I'm home and can look at things/take notes on a real computer, with decent Internet speed, (yey!).

Also, yes this is confusing and the surviving scum is/are doing well (I still think the total's probably three) BUT - let's not get defeatist, we have time and Town can still double down on this and win.

Let's go!

Nolder · January 15, 2016

Hello Cass.

I feel like you have your mind made up about me but I may as well try.

Why do you think I'm the last scum as opposed to say Celeste?

Cass · January 15, 2016

Nolder,

No need for ISO quality case right now/yet.

I want your bare, unadulterated gut feels/thoughts.

In bullet points, off the top of your head, what makes you think Shad and Celeste are Scum?

Go!

Nolder · January 15, 2016

Nolder,

No need for ISO quality case right now/yet.

I want your bare, unadulterated gut feels/thoughts.

In bullet points, off the top of your head, what makes you think Shad and Celeste are Scum?

Go!

Honestly there's one thing about each of them that really bothers me.

I find other things when I look but these are the rocks that I have built the church of my suspicion upon.

Celeste and this Rustlemania thing.

I am highlighting as we speak how she's continually lied about explaining what she meant. She's been casting negativity and doubt on my game since very early in the thread and although I've tried to pin her down on it every time she either gave me a vague response or said she already explained it. This is just extremely scummy and something I can't ignore. I hope you'll have the time to look through the posts I'm putting behind spoilers because I make it obvious which ones you need to pay attention to and the rest are just there for reference. I am proving post by post how she's been doing this all game and making excuses when called out.

Shad I am admittedly less confident about but my suspicion on him is all about how he's treating Celeste and Wish. Shad said pretty early that Celeste is Town basically because Wish says so and he trusts Wish. I have no problem saying Wish is town...at this point. But that early in the game I don't feel like Shad should have had such a good read on Wish that he was not only trusting her but putting aside all personal judgments and allowing Wish's read on Celeste to override and become his own. It doesn't make sense to me why a Townie would do such a thing. There's also little interactions between the two that stand out but I know you don't want nitpicking right now. The gist of it is he was trusting Wish like he KNEW she was town (which he would if he was scum) and promoting her town read on Celeste because he know she's not town.

Hope that makes sense.

Nolder · January 15, 2016

p15

Well I have been helping and it doesn't help that nobody even gets that I really can't explain thoughts well. It's a major flaw of mine and I have been working on it. It's still a work in progress.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

I'm getting sick, have allergies, and going to bed now. Just think about it.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Basically, it would have to be inside my blues, and you'd have to find that person and case them, and have it be correct.

I don't see that happening, do you?

It's entirely possible and basically I contradict your own godfather theory. I was in almost everybody's lynch pile. I also was pushed a lot by Zander. How does it make sense that I would be mafia?

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

I think I have a way to explain my Nolder and Prayala read. I need wish though to translate it because it's based off two similar play styles.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

So here I go. Nolder to me is a mix of the players dizzy/halcyon from my home site. Dizzy usually has the town tells to get away from lynches usually as both alignments. Halcyon has this uncertainty vibe around him as scum when being read which is my main concern with Nolder. It also feels like he gets away with the PoE in this game a bit more than me. Pralaya is basically like Kito to me who is really quiet and prefers scum to town roles. Meaning he is slightly more content filled when on the defense. I have to return to chores but this is my explanation. Hopefully wish can help me get it more clear if confused.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

[unvote]

[v]Pralaya[/v] I will respond to some posts now but not sure when I will be back.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

The post itself doesn't make sense... Lol To me that's very town Celeste. XDDDD To be entirely blunt, she doesn't make much sense as town. Terrible at defending herself. Please read her and my recent explanations of her read/comparison of Pralaya and Nolder to two players we know.
I read it. I disagree with it. I dont see anything town in there, just a horribad defense.

She's a very scummy townie. :/ I tried to lynch her our first few games together as town. It was only after I hydra'd with her that I did learn how to read her.
Well to bad for her then. If your a scummy townie your gonna get lynched. Example: Half my games here before I took a break.
I lynch the scummiest person. I do not believe in TWTBAW.

I know I'm scummy but just because I'm scummy doesn't mean I should be lynched if the reasons are play style related instead of actual incriminating content scummy.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Basically, it would have to be inside my blues, and you'd have to find that person and case them, and have it be correct.

I don't see that happening, do you?

It's entirely possible and basically I contradict your own godfather theory. I was in almost everybody's lynch pile. I also was pushed a lot by Zander. How does it make sense that I would be mafia?

It would be more convincing had you gained votes, rather than just put forth as somewhat scummy.

the thing is there was actual content that incriminated Csarmi. While I am just scummy regardless of what I post to people. Does that not contradict your theory.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Right. Knowing Celeste's meta may mean she's deeply pocketing me, but I won't believe that she's a wolf until I see it.

That is practically what I am thinking for you at this point.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

The post itself doesn't make sense... Lol To me that's very town Celeste. XDDDD To be entirely blunt, she doesn't make much sense as town. Terrible at defending herself. Please read her and my recent explanations of her read/comparison of Pralaya and Nolder to two players we know.
I read it. I disagree with it. I dont see anything town in there, just a horribad defense.

She's a very scummy townie. :/ I tried to lynch her our first few games together as town. It was only after I hydra'd with her that I did learn how to read her.
Well to bad for her then. If your a scummy townie your gonna get lynched. Example: Half my games here before I took a break.
I lynch the scummiest person. I do not believe in TWTBAW.

I know I'm scummy but just because I'm scummy doesn't mean I should be lynched if the reasons are play style related instead of actual incriminating content scummy.

Yeah it kinda does. As I said, I dont believe in TWTBAW. Regardless this discussion gets us nowhere and does nothing. I found the post and you to be scummy this game, your answering by saying your just a scummy villager. Not enough for me.

I suck at defending myself but if I'm vigged or lynched I don't want it to be in vain or to not go down without making the explanations that would help with my reads.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

l feel like I have said all my thoughts at this point. If you have any questions I'm here.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Hi. I just thought of this but if majority thinking works anything like turbo thinking than my guess is scum would have hammered now if he is town.

Nolder · January 15, 2016

p16

end of 6/9

Hi. I just thought of this but if majority thinking works anything like turbo thinking than my guess is scum would have hammered now if he is town.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Hi. I just thought of this but if majority thinking works anything like turbo thinking than my guess is scum would have hammered now if he is town.

They probably already voted.

Also, no, they would have hammered him if they aren't voting and he's scum. They would have said feel free to bus me, and then boom.

Yeah I'm oblivious to bussing unless it is I who is mafia.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Woah what was up with the complete vote switch? Just woke up here.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

I have been thinking about the last two scum and my guess is Nolder/Pralaya for the team with Zander and Csarmi.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

Zander and Csarmi didn't really bus Prayala at all and he has avoided lynches which fits with Pizza's godfather theory. Nolder has practically been under the radar you know?

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

I dunno, I've been torn on Nolder.
It seems like everybody has been torn on Nolder while he was just off to me.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

I have seen Town Cass while she is busy. The lack of presence sometimes isn't as concerned as the first time I saw it.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

What does that mean, Lassie?
Just because she isn't around much doesn't exactly mean she is mafia. Although I haven't seen her mafia play before.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

What does that mean, Lassie?
Just because she isn't around much doesn't exactly mean she is mafia. Although I haven't seen her mafia play before.

Actually that's not even my problem with Cass, like at all.

Then what is it? I may have missed it.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

If Pral flips town then i'm not really sure what to do.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Another thing that pinged me about Nolder is that is scum read Pizza at one point.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

[v]Pralaya[/v]

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

I've been ignoring off-site games in my ISOs, but I need to see a game where Celeste was town and got mislynched.
I can get one of those.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

http://personalitycafe.com/mafia/595921-mafia-newbie-xxxv-variety-mafia-k-celeb-mafia-win.html

Lady Grinch here.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Nolder · January 15, 2016

p17

Thanks. Is there any easy way to make it display only your posts?
You click Search Thread and click advanced search. Then in the username section you can type the username I put here, and make sure to click Exact Name. That should bring up my posts. I replaced after my first mislynch so let me get the town ISO page numbers for you.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

"Not PT" was my last town post.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

http://personalitycafe.com/search.php?searchid=35085826&pp=

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Let me try doing it for you and linking it, Shad
Ninja'd

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

Anyways I need to sleep and will vote Nolder if that is who we are lynching in the morning.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

Don't hammer preemptively. I don't think we should just POE, Pizza.
I'm personally fine with either lynch as they are in my PoE.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

I'll do the work today, I just want to be sure before we drop a hammer.
One last post. I will keep my vote on Pral until you have done the work. I don't want to miss voting like D1 again.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

[unvote] [v]Cass[/v]
why her?

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

4 scum against a cop doc and vig seems way way way more stacked for scum than I'm used to on DM, but I have failed miserably at predicting set-ups in the past. Why are we all convinced there are 4 scum again?
Idk why you have but I always keep a skeptical eye for these things. It's why I was questioning pizza on Vig or SK before he claimed.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

So today is pretty important. Are we going to yolo lynch Pral/Celeste/Nolder and hope one of these solves the game? It's entirely possible. Maybe the most likely possibility. But the probability isn't as high as I would prefer.

But if not, how do you begin to reignite the hunt and create an environment where scum can do scummy things? Because there's nothing inherently scummy about wtl Pral/Celeste/Nolder atp.

In this case you will have to be prepared to go by tone instead of evidence in thread because scum hide better that way. This is where I see the scum wins at sites like Mafia Universe, The Org, and etc.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

I'm here..

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

This is going to be just like the Kaylee lynch. We were clearly going to vote Pral it seemed like than for some odd reason it switched to Kaylee. Pral hasn't even reconsider who the scum are it seems like.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

If Celeste is on everyone's short list then why don't we lynch her?

It's the one person we all* agree on.

this is week. What is your read on Pral?

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

I don't want to lynch Nolder today.

It's a really frustrating call.

I think it's something that extensive research into other games might resolve, but I don't have the energy. Going just by the three I've played with him before, I think it's more likely to come from town!Nolder.

Who would you lynch then? What if the person you want to lynch flips town? Sometimes the evidence provided is what hinders town. While the way the post felt can lead to scum.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

We can't just slack at this point. We have me/pral/nolder who are confusing the masses. If my flip is necessary to lynch the last two scum who are also confusing to others than do it. I don't want to be a hindrance anymore if it helps town win.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSTLEMANIA

Cass · January 15, 2016

Hello Cass.I feel like you have your mind made up about me but I may as well try.Why do you think I'm the last scum as opposed to say Celeste?

I think you're scummy because you've been pinging me all game.

Top of my head

1.You didn't hunt Scum/give opinions ITT early game;

2. There was a LOT of fluff and the gun question thing was plain weird. Felt to me like cover/stalling to avoid real commitments ITT;

3. You said later that you were 'hunting' me during that time but

a) the things you gave me early minuses for were nuances in my behaviour and my game approach, which were questioned by others and I believe explained ITT by that point. You didn't actually seem interested in trying to figure me out. Even said 'I just think she hasn't done enough to be scummy yet' or something, which suggests you're maybe more interested in pushing me/a case than actually really trying to figure me out; and b) you never pressed me harder/never took the opportunity to really interact when you put your thoughts into the open. You asked me if you were crazy, I answered I could maybe see where you were coming from and asked you what you wanted to discuss/needed to know and you never came back to me after that. Why?

4. I didn't like the wording that you used with your vote on Pral early in the game. It didn't feel like you were voting him because you thought he was Scum, it felt like you were trying to justify your position on the train. I didn't like the way you avoided answering me when I questioned you/asked you for explanation/elaboration on your reasons why you were voting there;

5. In ISO, your interactions with Zander stand out. You two are mutually not suspicious of each other and you initially only interact/answer/question him wrt reads;

6. You highlight/introduce a 'I don't think there's a Zander-Csarmi scum link' line of thought;

7. You held back on the Csarmi lynch. To me, it was pretty obviously not his Town game and your 'confusion'/lack of understanding of the case wrt that felt false;

7. You now say Celeste and Shad are Scum, but don't give reasons or elaborate your thoughts. You focus instead on the idea that there would be no point in doing so, which is weird. If you think they're Scummy and you're Town and nobody else is getting it, it's your job to try and be clear and say why . IMO there's more Scum equity/motive in the way you've been putting them up as options but not locking your 'read/lean' in with your thought process/reasons why.

As for how you look in comparison to others, like Celeste, that's where I'm torn. I've been leaning them more-likely Town and thus haven't focused enough on them yet to know.

[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

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