[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[alannalynn]

I would actuallly lynch Cass before Nolder sometimes

[alannalynn]

Nolder's consistently been on Celeste this whole game but Cass was early on Csarmi and jumped on that Pral lynch

[Nolder]

 

Why am I suspect again?

 

Just to be clear.

Because even not being that scummy, you're still scummy

 

What does that even mean? >_>

Like I know I can be a jerk sometimes and that makes you (and others) mad and frustrated.

But lynching me for that is only going to push us closer to losing the game and that'll make you even more mad.

Of course I guess you could blame it on me but the "he made me do it" argument is usually one of the weakest and everyone knows that.

 

and you're in the POE.

Ok. But that's like saying you're a suspect because you're a suspect.

I understand you have a shortlist but why am I at the top?

 

And I still haven't seen your ISOs or you work

I posted my notes after D1.

I posted the first half of my Celeste ISO (the only one I care about right now) maybe...20 pages ago? (no one commented on it, go figure)

I posted the second half last night which turned out to only be one quote. That's not my fault though. I don't want to quote 40 posts just to say this is all fluff you know? Read her ISO yourself, the second half, and tell me there's a lot to comment on. There isn't.

 

I've been open about my thought process the entire time.

Ok well no I wanted to hunt Cass without her knowing and that backfired which I think really set the tone for this entire game.

Like I really feel like people are still judging me on that thing with Cass and that sucks because since then I've been as open as possible with my reads.

 

The only complaint I can see aside from that is the Shad ISO.

I don't want to do it right now and to be honest I don't get why that's such a big deal.

If you're not even CONSIDERING Shad to lynch today then it's not worth my time to do.

And, really, the game could be over with 1 lynch. Maybe I'm insane and it's not Shad.

Maybe we lynch Celeste and the game is over. Since I'm more confident about Celeste I'd rather push her for lynch than split my time pushing Shad whom no one but me seems to find scummy and then if she's lynched and the game continues go from there.

 

and frankly, your play this game has irritated me a bit

I understand that but I'm not trying to.

Look at Nightmare Before Christmas.

Me and Nomi and Shad fought that entire game but we pulled through and made it work so we could win.

I'm irritating ok but don't give up on me and I wont give up on you. I'll keep trying to help as best I can until the noose is around my neck.

[Nolder]

Like if you think Shad is townie then me pushing him is scummy, right?

I don't want to waste what town equity I have in your eyes (if any at this point) to push Shad when I know it's just going to piss you off.

I'd rather push the read you're willing to consider and the one I'm more confident in.

 

Does that make sense now?

[alannalynn]

Unfortunatley I've been geting a growing paranoia about Shad and I keep shoving it back down becausse looking at shad is a stupid thing to do at this point

[Nolder]

I don't think it's stupid but I do think we need to prioritize likelihoods.

IMO Celeste is more likely to be mafia than Shad. And even though I think they're partners that has held true this entire game.

Maybe he's a better wolf and able to hid his tells better? Possible. But either way if you're going to lynch Shad I think Celeste HAS to come first.

 

 

And I understand if I'm higher on your list but that's what I want to talk about because I think the reasons you might have me high on your list are some of the same things Celeste has done and I'm waiting to point them out for you.

 

I have to go for a bit though my friend is picking up his daughter and I'm going with.

BBS

[Shad_]

You can talk about her, but I'm already willing to vote her. Just did :P My reasons are the strange tone shift from the beginning of the game to now, the strange post that Zander made that called her paranoid, her own acknowledgment of her paranoia, the focus on small details that are rather irrelevant, keeping her town read of Zander even after Pizza/Shad built an incriminating case on him, and her WTL list containing Celeste, even after she said she trusted my read and her gut on Celeste.

 

What did you think of my concern with her that literally no one responded to?

[Shad_]

I still think Nolder's town.

 

I need to put in the work on Wish yet.

 

If I can lock Wish in as town we'll be in good shape.

[Shad_]

...but putting in the work is -_-

[Nolder]

...but putting in the work is -_-

I know that feel.

[Shad_]

meh

[Shad_]

Nolder, did you read everything in this game at least once over?

[Shad_]

1. I was excited, I rolled Town on DM, with Cory as a mentor. He gave me permission to go #FullCass, which I did.

 

2. A lot of my allegations are testing , which I already explained earlier is how I make my reads, especially early game. This thought process may be left field but it has also drawn my attentionto/seen me latch onto scum early on D1 in my three most recent games as Town.

QuikTwist in Rockerfella Shank, in my first game-related post; El Barto early game in Snakes; and Zander out the gate right here.

 

3. I backed off of Zander to look for others/found Csarmi because I wasn't sure how to handle him and didn't see him getting lynched D1. I wavered on him for the first time when he started elaborating in his parts to Lenlo - and if you look closely, his posting style had changed.

 

4.Activity reduced because real life, which I was concerned about even when I signed up, BUT I'm still trying. The effort I put in at the beginning was excessive ITT for mentoring's sake. Light hearted attitude and confidence dropped because sucking/feeling lost and short of time and losing a mentor all at once kind of sucks.

 

My hesitation on Kaylee had nothing to do with how I would look and everything to do with trying to decide on my own whose reads/feels were right and whether or not she was actually Scum.

 

These are sucky, cop-out reasons to vote me (Shad's are better in a sense, even though they're null/wrong), and voting/lynching me is a waste of today when we have players who appear more likely scum.

 

Are you telling me you have more of a problem with my change in tone/attitude than you do with Nolder fluffing/dodging giving reads for the beginning of the game, overtly hesitating on Csarmi, lololol and 'brother' interacting with mutually Town-reading Zander, highlighting the idea that there's no link been Zander/Csarmi-Scum and today refusing to 'force' himself to post his cases and play along?

 

Or that my scattered attitude, which you were Town-reading me earlier for, now looks scummier than Pral, who also avoided Csarmi, and who has been mostly keeping closed and refusing to reconsider reads - on two players you were earlier confident were Town?

 

I really like this post.

[Celeste]

Ok this sucks. *puts Pral on the idfk how to read list* -.- I just can't shake off the Nolder suspicion really.

[wish-tree]

Shad, remind me again what that concern was. I'm sorry, everyone, I'm going to be AFK tomorrow. I have two business meetings in another city that I have to go to, won't be back until about late afternoon Eastern Standard Time.

[Shad_]

Shad, remind me again what that concern was. I'm sorry, everyone, I'm going to be AFK tomorrow. I have two business meetings in another city that I have to go to, won't be back until about late afternoon Eastern Standard Time.

 

 

Well here's my issue:

 

 

 

 

OFC YOU CAN USE THE LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

ALSO TELL CORY I LOVE HIM!!!!!!

 

 

:wub: :wub:

I've never played with you/seen you Town, but I'd expect you to just LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! (or at least Lol first)

No need to tell him, he's reading along :P

 

 

First of all how do you think I feel forced?(1) Second "our scum game" Have we played together before....???? Or are you referring to Alanna?(2)

 

Cory knows my soul and he will be able to help clear things up for you!!!!

1. Did you get to the post where I actually sat down and answered the question yet? Read on that (and this post) please..!

2. We've never played together before. I'm referring to Alanna.

 

I'm slightly insulted/incredulous that you think you may have forgotten if we'd played together. I also thought it was obvious that I was talking to Alanna, so you being dramatic about it makes me raise an eyebrow.

 

I don't particularly like the things I bolded coming from you, but when I look at the points I'm lining up against you it's like looking in a mirror. I will so laugh if we are T-T tinfoiling our way to misreads! I can totally see us doing so, based on paranoia/possibility personality. Again, not voting to lynch you yet. But if you're a wolf, I'm gonna hunt you down

 

I think it's too early for either of us to call the other wolf tbh. Not removing wary gut feels, but definitely allowing for the possibility you may be Town .

 

What's your actual take on our interactions right now?

 

 

 

 

 

OFC YOU CAN USE THE LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

ALSO TELL CORY I LOVE HIM!!!!!!

 

 

:wub: :wub:

I've never played with you/seen you Town, but I'd expect you to just LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! (or at least Lol first)

No need to tell him, he's reading along :P

 

Cass I have no Meta on you...is joke votes normal for you? How do you play? What are your scum tells??? Or is it just straight Rand.Org has forever branded you a Wolf??!!!

 

lmklmklmk

- Joke votes are not normal for me except if I feel relatively comfortable with someone both inside and outside the game.

- Dice and Penny are probably the only players I would jokevote at this stage of my career.

- Voting is not something I do lightly in any case (to this point). I don't like being wrong. I'm think I'm learning the advantages of throwing votes around, but it's not something I easily/naturally want to do when there's a game to win!!

 

I play... differently to this? More carefully/sensored? Usually. As either alignment. But I'm hyper! (winding down) and trying not to take the game so seriously, trying to be more me than a player, if that makes sense? Blame Chris/Cory if I don't make sense. They encouraged the unleashing of #FullCass! :D :D

 

 

 

 

 

good morning

 

Morning Turin havent played with you in a long time or really much at all for that matter looking forward to it man!!!!

 

it has been a while. let's lunch some wolves.

 

Lets do this brother!!!

 

#Gutread awkward

 

Turin have you played with Cass??

 

Like do you have any Meta on her?

 

Im a pretty heavy Meta reliant player so I need some info on her.

#Gutread more awkward because bold reads forced/unnecessary

 

 

Z, I think I played once or twice with her in the game. I don't recall a lot about her but I think she is a more analytical player. I recall dice always having to tell her to go to sleep.

 

For me, I'm Turin and I like lazy Sunday mornings in bed, medium sized walks in the park and living here in the shire.

 

I'm town. Like always.

I can be analytical when I put my mind to it. I like sifting through stuff and finding nitty-gritty inconsistencies. That goes for play in either alignment.

I've tried to sleep more the last couple of games. I think you're more likely to understand me correctly this game if you think like Dice and just question if I seem like me.

 

 

TLDR I'm wary, but I doubt I'm voting you today Zan, because I want fun :D If you're Town and we figure each other out this game will #FULLTWINENFPFTW!

 

 

(1)How serious, if at all are you with the lolololololol part??? And also I always need to tell Cory i love him ldo!!!!! lollololololol

 

Thanks for the Meta info, I look forward to hearing others weigh in on it!!! and I cant wait to see #FULLCASS....i picture something like this....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems like you've already come in with the preconceived notion of reading me scummy and that's not a good look my dear (2)...Like each of my interactions youve felt off about, I mean I get that people Ive never played with before may sense that but its just that all youre using is Forced and Awkward....and like 6 pages in, that seems very weird, but then I'm also weighing in the ENFP (3) so Im kinda meh with this, but something Im noticing fwiw.

 

4. Why would you think my Meta talk is forced or unnecessary, especially sense theres a bunch of players I havent played with much or at all and the fact that everyone who has played with me will tell you IM EXACTLY a Meta reliant player???!!!!

 

 

Well I want to make sure we figure each other out because so far it feels a little off putting to me my dear!!!!

 

1. Pretty serious that I thought you'd be less serious tbh!

2. Potentially I expected you to be obvTown to me if you were Town and I'm honing in on you because you're not yet. So kinda the opposite to pre-conceiving that someone's scum (lolannoyingwolfgifisannoyinglol);

3. Yup. That's what, if anything, will have me lean you Town right now.

 

4. The meta questions stood out to me because I expected you to try and read me on your own.

 

Basically, looking at it, I think most of it comes down to #assumptions (on my part), and those assumptions are quite potentially silly given that we've never played together before. I'll reign in the tinfoil for a while if you do! :P

 

 

 

 

Kind of not feeling good on Kaylee with how much Zander said they are mind melding.

[v]Kaylee[/v]

I'm not opposed to this but I really need to figure you two out.

 

The vibe I got toward EoD was that Kaylee did a lot to get out of her lynch, and she did it well. This could come from Scum or Town Kaylee IMO. My gut feel later was that she could be scum bussing Csarmi and buddying me once Csarmi started going down (if I've understood correctly, this is in Kaylee's meta and something she does well). It was a strong feel and FWIW if she's the scum this fits with Shad's theory that I'm scum scapegoat in Zander's eyes. There were a couple of things she said that I thought were either indications that she was genuinely more confident that I was Town or buddying me. It freaked me out a little and I backed off to see how she'd respond today. I wish I could trust her, but I don't.

On the other hand, I always read Kay scum. She's impossible for me. She could be Town.

 

Cass, help me out a bit. Can you link me to a game in which you struggled to read Kaylee?

 

 

- House of Cards

- Frozen

 

Scummed against her in HoC, spectated Frozen. Couldn't understand/wouldn't have read her Town for most of HoC if I'd been Town, had her null-scum from beginning of Frozen before checking DT.

 

 

 

You started off this game engaging Zander, you both called out things that pinged each other, and then you mutually backed down. A key point in backing away was that you hadn't seen him town/played with him before and you might be making "potentially silly" assumptions about what his town game would look like. You even expressed frustration with Zander for his failure to remember that the two of you have never played together before.

 

But you played together in April Fools, where he was town. And you played together in A Tale of Middle Earth, where he was town. And you very explicitly paid attention to his town game in Frozen:

 

Also, this is the first real game I've followed him in, but <3 Zander!

You didn't have any trouble recalling your previous encounters with Kaylee, even when the same game was involved. You and Zander are good buddies. I struggle to grasp how town!Cass forgets so much about him.

 

Whereas if scum!Cass assumes no one will be arsed to do the research, she can pretty easily play up unfamiliarity with Zander's town game to present herself as having been on to him all along without ever actually pushing him.

 

 

[wish-tree]

Oh, I remember addressing this, actually. Let me link you the post in which Cass replies, saying that she found him suspicious all of day 1, but backed off from him because she didn't think we would be willing to lynch him d1, and also so that she could focus on lynching Csarmi. Let me know what you think of this post.

[wish-tree]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?/topic/96393-[bASIC/STANDARD]-Warcraft:-War-of-the-Ancients-Mafia---NIGHT-THREE#entry3592944

 

I think it's point 3.

[wish-tree]

Eww, did the formatting break?

[wish-tree]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?/topic/96393-[bASIC/STANDARD]-Warcraft:-War-of-the-Ancients-Mafia---NIGHT-THREE#entry3592944

[wish-tree]

Another relevant post:

[wish-tree]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?/topic/96393-[bASIC/STANDARD]-Warcraft:-War-of-the-Ancients-Mafia---NIGHT-THREE#entry3592965

[wish-tree]

I think that this explanation seems okay from a surface level, but going back and ISOing what Cass is talking about here is probably for the best, in case she's relying on people being lazy and not going back to check to see that she's being consistent.

[wish-tree]

Have to sleep. Good night!

[Shad_]

I think that this explanation seems okay from a surface level, but going back and ISOing what Cass is talking about here is probably for the best, in case she's relying on people being lazy and not going back to check to see that she's being consistent.

Drank a bit tonight so I might sound a little goofy:

 

I've been pretty methodically verifying everything Cass has said for the past two days or so. It's all been reasonably consistent. (I called out the Nolder read change because it was the only thing I saw that didn't really seem to have an explanation.) My concern was an apparent lack of consistency between what she said about Zander in this game and her actual experience playing with/observing him.