[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[alannalynn]

Is 4pm too early to get back in pajamas?

[Pralaya]

 

Shad, look at this post. You know Zander better than me. How would he lump the scum? Together? Separate? Different in different games? Would he be busing in his list?

I think it depends for zander. He traditionally busses a teammate but if he can get away with strong town reading a teammate who he traditionally town reads (ie me, Cory, or for example someone like Shad), then he'll do that no problem.

 

I think Zander is more likely to take a stance on a teammate than to keep them in nulls. I would have to go back and confirm that though

 

 

Unless it is csarmi, lol

[Shad_]

 

So today is pretty important.  Are we going to yolo lynch Pral/Celeste/Nolder and hope one of these solves the game?  It's entirely possible.  Maybe the most likely possibility.  But the probability isn't as high as I would prefer.

 

But if not, how do you begin to reignite the hunt and create an environment where scum can do scummy things?  Because there's nothing inherently scummy about wtl Pral/Celeste/Nolder atp.

 

You played with Nol as scum i my game. I don't think he was this disinterested, right? He partly gave up but was still interested in fighting. This game, he is very odd. Don't think it is intentional.

 

 

I saw him as scum in AoL, too.  I don't think he looks like either of those games here, at all.

 

And I caught this at the end of that game.

 

"Shad now that you've seen it, this is Nolder's scum game. It doesn't change much and there are some mannerisms that he does often that give him away."

 

You really gotta tell everyone? :/

Response to an AJ comment in DT iirc.  It's not normal for him to switch up his scum game much.  People who have played with him a long time note this.

 

What I find interesting today is that I put him at a second vote with the intent of pressuring him, Pizza put him at L-2 while explicitly stating that he thinks he's town, and some players were just like "yeah I'm cool with that, we can lynch him today."

 

The popcorn consent after Pizza is incredibly lazy town, if it's town at all.

 

It looks the worst for Cass imo.

 

[alannalynn]

This is true. Notably though, Csarmi didn't give him much to work with. It would have been obvious for him to call him town/scum for null work.

[alannalynn]

Is 4pm too early to get back in pajamas?

Since nobody answered, I'm legit crawling into pajamas and hoping I don't have to leave the house again lol

[Shad_]

My connection has dropped to dial-up levels and I don't know if it's a consequence of the blizzard outside or something else, but I'll be a bit slow to respond to things until it picks back up.

[Shad_]

Shad, look at this post. You know Zander better than me. How would he lump the scum? Together? Separate? Different in different games? Would he be busing in his list?

 

Zander is more comfortable scum reading a team mate, but it's a sort of gimmick that he can't run every time or he'll just out himself and a team mate every D1 that he rands scum. I'm trying to pull up Diablo and his other non-bus scum game (British Monarchy?) to see what his early reads lists looked like but my connection is making it take forever.

 

I would say that Zander is a dynamic player who adapts his reads lists to the context of the individual game though. I don't think he's going to necessarily follow some pattern of usually place one team mate in x range and another in y.

 

Here, his earliest Diablo reads list just loaded. He gave one team mate strong town and read another third scummiest but placed her above his nulls because lolololol Zander.

 

Iirc the strong town complied with general thread opinion and the slight scum was lower than overall average.

[Shad_]

Here's the other one--Tarmon Gai'don. He has one team mate as second strongest scum read and the other as null. I wasn't in the game so can't give you a context.

[Shad_]

 

 

I have a question for all of you

 

You are on the side of a road walking down the sidewalk.

You have a gun with 1 bullet in it.

Two people are walking towards you.

The one on your left has a baseball bat the other is wearing a cowboy hat.

Who do you shoot?

Umm what does this prove Nolder? Seems like pointless WIFOM.

 

 

Uhhh, Penny? Your Tone has changed :P

 

Last game Penny asked random entry question thing like this herself when Town.

 

I have no problem her questioning Nolder/stating it seems like WIFOM.

 

The Umm is unnecessary to the question and a change in style/tone from last game.

 

[wish-tree]

Hi, I'm here.

 

Umm comment is irrelevant from Cass, if you wanted a comment on that, Shad.

[wish-tree]

Lainey, 4 PM is not too late to go back to pajamas. 

 

Walk me through your 1 SK/1 wolf theory, Pralaya. You think that Pizza is the SK? He claimed the vig shot.

[Shad_]

@Nolder,

 

If you have doubts read his ISOs the first two Town games he links earlier

 

 

 

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&andor_type=&sid=a0f2426413eb74aad6fcc81c98243a64&search_author=Csarmi&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BsortKey%5D=date&cType=topic&cId=81647&search_content=both&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BnoPreview%5D=1&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BpCount%5D=&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BpViews%5D=&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BsortKey%5D=date&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BsortDir%5D=0&search_term=&search_app=forums&st=25

 

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&andor_type=&sid=6954203a06fa82a743b6d06c3b828a64&search_author=Csarmi&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BsortKey%5D=date&cType=topic&cId=84776&search_content=both&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BnoPreview%5D=1&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BpCount%5D=&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BpViews%5D=&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BsortKey%5D=date&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BsortDir%5D=0&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BsearchInKey%5D=&search_term=&search_app=forums&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BsearchInKey%5D=&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BsortKey%5D=date&search_app_filters%5Bforums%5D%5BsortDir%5D=1

 

 

 

The second one he even forewarns he doesn't have a lot of time to commit and the style is still drastically different.

I like this post

[wish-tree]

There have been no other kills besides the claimed vig kill and the presumed Mafia kill, unless the SK has been holstering every night/being roleblocked, or it's the SK that's been doing the Mafia kill and the Mafia holstering... 

[Shad_]

Hi, I'm here.

 

Umm comment is irrelevant from Cass, if you wanted a comment on that, Shad.

Pointing out obscure things like that is normal for her?

[wish-tree]

 

Hi, I'm here.

 

Umm comment is irrelevant from Cass, if you wanted a comment on that, Shad.

Pointing out obscure things like that is normal for her?

 

no, that's not what I meant

 

I meant that the Umm comment that Penny made was irrelevant to her tone, and that Cass shouldn't have pointed it out.

[alannalynn]

 

 

Hi, I'm here.

 

Umm comment is irrelevant from Cass, if you wanted a comment on that, Shad.

Pointing out obscure things like that is normal for her?

 

no, that's not what I meant

 

I meant that the Umm comment that Penny made was irrelevant to her tone, and that Cass shouldn't have pointed it out.

 

Why shouldn't she have? Isn't that what her job as a villager should be?

[wish-tree]

 

 

 

Hi, I'm here.

 

Umm comment is irrelevant from Cass, if you wanted a comment on that, Shad.

Pointing out obscure things like that is normal for her?

 

no, that's not what I meant

 

I meant that the Umm comment that Penny made was irrelevant to her tone, and that Cass shouldn't have pointed it out.

 

Why shouldn't she have? Isn't that what her job as a villager should be?

 

it's fishing too hard, trying to build a tone case off that one thing is a real stretch.

Umm isn't tone indicative, at least for Penny

[Shad_]

Wish, in your experience, how does scum!Cass react to someone suspecting her?

 

Not all of town barreling down. Just one person starting to ramp up on her.

[Nolder]

Im still out and about today but I'll be home soon...

 

Nolder, if we're a team, why not provide us with all the information you can today in case you get lynched? Btw, nothing is guaranteed, so you as might as well do the work so we have something to go off of.

I honestly just don't want to do the work if there's no point.

And from what you guys are saying you have your minds made up.

So what's the point in casing? You know where I stand and you should more or less know why by now even if I didn't dig into every detail.

 

4 scum against a cop doc and vig seems way way way more stacked for scum than I'm used to on DM, but I have failed miserably at predicting set-ups in the past.  Why are we all convinced there are 4 scum again?

My theory was 4 scum because the first 2 weren't roled. I guess it's possible there's 1 GF left or something but it seems risky especially with a vig.

4 goons makes more sense to me.

 

 

So today is pretty important.  Are we going to yolo lynch Pral/Celeste/Nolder and hope one of these solves the game?  It's entirely possible.  Maybe the most likely possibility.  But the probability isn't as high as I would prefer.

 

But if not, how do you begin to reignite the hunt and create an environment where scum can do scummy things?  Because there's nothing inherently scummy about wtl Pral/Celeste/Nolder atp.

 

You played with Nol as scum i my game. I don't think he was this disinterested, right? He partly gave up but was still interested in fighting. This game, he is very odd. Don't think it is intentional. 

 

I burn out on long games and/or games with a lot of people (TUS).

I just can't cope with the amount that goes on.

I can force it for a little while but after a point I just give up.

That's mostly my fault but people like Xander lolololing to page 100 doesn't exactly help either.

[wish-tree]

Wish, in your experience, how does scum!Cass react to someone suspecting her?

 

Not all of town barreling down. Just one person starting to ramp up on her.

I can't tell you how scum!Cass reacts to someone suspecting her. (Never seen it from a first-hand experience)

 

However, town!Cass reacts to suspicion in such a way (if it's one person):

 

Dismisses the accusations, or says something kind of wolfy in response (l o l). In the game of hers I watched on PerC, she was town mason and she didn't seem all too worried by one person's allegations against her, if I recall correctly. If this is wrong, Cass, please correct me.

[wish-tree]

IT'S SNOWING, GUYSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[wish-tree]

:DDDDDDD

[Shad_]

I tried to snip as much excess as possible, but here are Cass's comments on Nolder up to where she posts her notes and discusses him at length.  There's one thing that really stands out to me in it.  Nothing earth shattering, but it caught me off guard a bit.  Can one of you tell me what that is?

 

 

 

Nolder - Lots of commentary on his own actions (catch ups etc) without actually commenting on the game/events. Beyond the gun thing at least. A couple of posts I outright don't like even if I can't explain why. Feel like he should resolve if Town, but not happy with him right now.

Re-read to 50 with notes, skimmed forward some from my last post. Going out for a few hours but here's roughly where I'm at:


4. Turin*

Town

1. Shad
8. Leno
5. Pizza
9. Wish-tree
11. Celeste
7. Laine
3. Zander
2. Kaylee
10. Pralaya
12. Nolder
6. Csarmi


@Shad, in case you feel like cementing my reads or disappointing me, giving up your spot as my top town and moving to possibly deep, derp wolf, how serious are you with the Cass intro post thing being indicative of me as Town? The claim and excitement were genuine this time but the logic you present there is seriously flawed. I absolutely make that post or something similar as a wolf.

My reads/leans (based up to p. 50 with +/- and then skimming forwards of ~73 when I can) is currently

Current evolution on bottom four:

Nolder seemed overtly scummy with focus on gun question/catchups etc. Had a lot of gut minuses but perhaps less pertinent than I thought? Not as confident in that read now, since I've been maybe picking up on a switch in attitude (there was some sarcasm at his own early methods etc and recent game skim read showing more involvement in the thread). I initially put him lower than Pral because I was factoring in Pral's inactivity being 'normal' for him. Switch in attitude might be sign of Town Nolder playing TWTBAW early on? Should self resolve if Town so ?give more time?

 

 

 

 

 

I'll double down on this since it's seeing some traction.
I like what Pral posted but he's so far behind we need more or it's not good enough.

[v]Pral[/v]

@Nolder
1. What, specifically, have you liked from whatever Pral has posted? (Why?)
2. 'He's so far behind we need more or it's not good enough' seems reachy - Pls explain why it's important to you/worth a lynch beyond the train gaining traction.
3. Has there been anything of Pral's you actually dislike?

 

1) I'm just impressed with the amount of catch up he's done. If it's real.
2) I don't understand what you mean by reachy. Can you rephrase?
3) No. He hasn't really posted many thoughts.

 

1 & 3 - ok

2. You cast a vote on a player after commenting that you liked what they had posted. I don't understand the thought process there, I don't believe 'he's so far behind we need more' is really good enough justification for a vote if you were liking the player's content. Seemed like you were looking for an excuse to vote, ie reaching.

That's why I asked you to explain why it was important to you/worth a lynch beyond gaining traction.

 

Oh ok well I see your hang up now. It's not that I like what he posted it's that I liked he was posting.

 

So then answer the question you've missed twice now (in bold/underline) ...

 

 

I don't understand the question.

Maybe you should try again?

Still rereading you, buddy.

I'm less willing to lynch Kaylee

still want a csarmi, Pralaya, Nolder lynch.

Nolder is putting in more work than either Pralaya/csarmi, so take it in csarmi>Pralaya>Nolder order.

*mindmeld*

Nomi, Celeste, Cass.

 

Still rereading you, buddy.

I'm less willing to lynch Kaylee

still want a csarmi, Pralaya, Nolder lynch.

Nolder is putting in more work than either Pralaya/csarmi, so take it in csarmi>Pralaya>Nolder order.

Not willing to lynch Nolder today despite his annoyances.

 

Agreed.

 

 

Oh god I'm sure I have but it's been awhile I think.

I agree he hasn't really done any of that but I figured it's because he's not fully caught up.

See second link above. I don't entirely buy your hesitation fwiw.

I'm out again, busted for being rude and anti social. >.<

 

Strongest town core:
Lenlo, Shad.

Maybe Pizza, Nolder.


Laine and Lenny close behind.

*Also slightly different from Cory reads

Sorry got interrupted by visitors.

Still not caught up but
 

Hey Cass now that it's out in the open, what do you think of my thinking you're mafia?
Am I insane? Are you just making mistakes? What's going on here? What would you do for a klondike bar?

I am 100% Town and you're probably not insane.

I'm struggling but I'm getting to it.

What do you need to know?

 

Sorry, just realised that first part might be confusing. I'm making a joke because I'm crazy when I play this game - as either alignment - and it's not insane that people don't get where I'm coming from or what's going on in my head sometimes.

I guarantee you anything that's making you think I'm scum is a combination of mistake/misread. People who are trying to get me lynched without trying to understand where I'm coming from are probably scum.

Fwiw that last post of yours sways me further towards the idea you may be Town.

@Nolder

Final scum in

Nolder/Pral/Kaylee/Celeste imo

Not sure of the order.

Let's do eeeeet!

 

Without actually rereading yet, my current focus is on: Kaylee, Pral, Lenlo, Cass

Do me a favour and add Nolder/Celeste to your current focus please?

 

 

 

WRT Nolder

 

From yesterday to end of notes

 

 

 

 

Nolder

 

++++

• 737, 742 sarcasm about own gun question

 

 

- - - -

• 179 - don’t like

• 183, 430, 728,  Commentary on own actions, still no comment on game - not interested beyond gun question

• 846 as above but more interest in game

• 429 if taken seriously

• 744 Doesn’t feel like he’s really questionning Penny for poss scum

• 844 interacts with Zander, own opinions meh

• Vote Pral - don’t like wording/feels like an excuse (routine for Pral)

???
183 - very focused on gun question ?strange methods meta?

 

 

FTR, I'm willing to listen to him today, but I'm not going to fight his lynch and I don't have Nolder 'high'. I have him 'highly conflicted'. The gun thing at the beginning and events outside the thread being his only focus in the beginning of the game concern me, I have a lot of minuses in my notes that I haven't been able to take the time to rationalise/explain and I'm still debating what to make of his vote on Pral and deliberation over Csarmi but my gut says he may be Town.

 

His increasing interest in the game could be coming from a town mindset if I take some negatives away. I've been warned he has strange tactics as either alignment sometimes and I wonder if it's just this and paranoia that's throwing me off.  The impression I got was that he was he was beginning to really work hard and if he's Town I think/hope he'll come through. I don't hate that he voted Pizza. I'm wary of Pizza. I'll always be wary of Pizza. I didn't overly like Kaylee for top lynch yesterday and TBQF the way Pizza presented his case freaked me out. Nolder's hesitation seemed Towny to me and the fact he was willing to vote Pizza day 1 is kind of impressive. It's also weird.

 

There's a lot of -'s in my notes on Nolder and Pizza's done more Town things for me to date. I want to see where Nolder takes things today, and I want him to lynch scum before I move him out of my PoE. 

 

There's a gap in my understanding, and I haven't done proper notes for everything past p. 50/51 but thoughts on things yesterday that I'm struggling with are his vote on Pral and the deliberation on Csarmi.

 

Pral is firmly in my PoE, so Nolder voting him/thinking he's scum is a plus. The problem is Nolder was also in my top 3, and the reasoning alongside his vote was generic enough to disturb me. I questioned him on it and the interaction that followed made me more uncomfortable than it put me at ease.

 

Nolder's hesitation on Csarmi bugged me. He's played with Csarmi before. TownCsarmi is pretty obvious. TownCsarmi questions everything and everything when scum and he blatantly wasn't doing that here, and it wasn't that hard to check/see.

 

His read of me is crap, but it's possibly understandable. Can't lean that either way.

 

Like I said, I want much more from Nolder today, and I want him to lynch scum. If he does that, I'll let go of more tinfoil and let him move closer to my Town core.

 

 

[Shad_]

I love snow.  We got a white out today, it was awesome.

[Shad_]

[unvote]

 

It's stupidly petty really.