[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[wish-tree]

 

 

 

FWIW I've played with Penny more than I've played with anyone else (twice). I'll let her play a bit and when I think I've got a better handle/she's settled properly into a groove I'll compare her play more thoroughly with what I've seen. She was fairly closed but straight-shooting in the last game. Gut says she's probably pushing you for reactions, using the joke vote on me to test. I don't have a problem with that vote.

 

With the bold:

1. Why don't you agree with the vote?

2. Are you against joke-votes in general?

3. What are your own philosophies/tendencies wrt voting, when you're Town?

 

I can potentially understand the reserve, but I want explanations in your words. It stands out to me because so far I haven't seen experienced players hold back early votes as Town if they think the player deserves some actual pressure?

1. The target is my current easiest-read villager. That's unrelated to when the vote was cast, or even if it was before you started looking townie to me. I feel scums are going to vote for villagers more today than each other. When your vote is on someone I think is town-telling I don't care when you cast it, it still concerns me and I want to know more. Example Turin's vote on Shad.

 

2. No, but I hadn't any inkling it was intended as a joke. Missed the humor there if it was. Joking is part of the game but I do have issues when I can't see the humor in something and I generally read it scummy.

 

3. In general just to avoid voting for people I think are town, until it's a question of being required to make a choice between them.

 

Further, voting for someone I find scummy, or just to get the discussion going, or someone I have as null if I don't have any scummy people, or my scummy person is already getting multiple votes and I want to gain more data than just wagoning one person.

 

Why I'd hold back on voting someone is sometimes I'd rather draw them out more, whereas voting sometimes provokes a defensive / shutting down reaction. Example, I felt like I'd be able to read NotBob better a couple games back by not voting him, than by voting him. Plus I had a more scummy target for most of the game.

 

I had early suspicion of NotBob and Nolder in one game and I voted Nolder, and pushed on NotBob, and then I had early suspicion of Lenlo and tried to resolve it through pressure, and then when I got enough from him that caused me to see it was outside of a typical scum behavior, I dropped it and went after a different suspect. I thought that was much more useful in solving Lenlo than not engaging him because he's already an open player and drawn out. Nolder I had also pegged as someone who was a more open townie than not, but NotBob I felt was a closed player.

 

Closed players have a very different style from me, and pressuring them doesn't get a reaction. I vote them to lynch them, not pressure them.

 

I try to solve the open players with pressure votes more. Gets their attention, gets their reactions better.

 

But that's one reason in a stew of reasons why I'd vote a certain way. Sometimes that gets overridden by other concerns, so I wouldn't say I have a definite pattern here. Just some principles that shine through to the surface more than others, at certain times.

 

 

I think that's a comprehensive answer but let me know.

 

 

Very comprehensive TY! I also really struggle with closed players I don't know, and I get the logic. Not as worried about how you mentioned 'could vote' instead of just voting now. 

 

@Zander!!! - Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kaylee!

 

Can you elaborate on the bold please?

 

- What makes you feel good/Why?

- What meta do you have on Town!/Scum!Lenlo?

 

 

 

I like the feel of your posts. You don't seem to be reserved as you do when scum. I've been scum with you and as scum you tend to come across as being careful. This game you seem to be trying to figure things out. Basically saying things \pointing them out as you see them. You're thinking things through but don't seem to care as much how you're coming across... More focused on the game and less on yourself I guess is what I'm saying.

 

On Leno: As town he's more likely to say whatever pops in his head, less filtered. As scum he's very careful what and how he says things. As I said it's early yet but leaning town.

 

Ok for Kaylee's rational on me - I've seen her make the same call on me as Town before with similar reasoning.

 

Ty for the input on Lenlo. Watching that space.

 

 

Noted this. Penny is my name not one of my many usernames.

 

Penn, current leans?

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, lovelies. I forgot about this game while trying to fill in signups for my own game.

 

Anyway, I'm about to leave in a few hours.

 

First things first, I haven't played very frequently with many people.

 

I'd like to say from initial post reads, my two solid town reads are Cass and Celeste.

 

Enthusiasm and involvement looking good from Cass.

 

Celeste is town because of her tone. You'll have to trust me on this. Played with her a lot.

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

Who... are you? Have we met?

I like the vote of confidence ( ) but how am I a solid Town read? Seems odd, but I'll wait for your identity and answer before I comment on my lean.

 

 

 

Hi, I'm Lenny! Feel free to call me that in thread.

 

 

Lennnnnnyyyyyyyyyy!

 

I thought from the reads it might be you, but.. Why on Earth did you use the word lovelies???

 

@Penny is this normal in game??

 

@Thread - I fully expect these two to be able to figure each other out. 

 

Lovelies is weird because Lenny's not usually a flowery/emotive sort of girl. I've never played with her before.

 

I am sarcastically flowery/emotive in thread. It's normal :P

 

Also, Penny clarified earlier.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 

Do you believe, even if it is inaccurate, that this is her honest opinion? You're saying she's remembering incorrectly or is lying deliberately or neither.

I believe this is her honest opinion despite forgetting that simple fact.

I want to know what you think of me, actually. And since I trust you so far, I would also like your gut reads.

(What works, works. Meh.)

I think your slight town so far. Although I have my reservations. Cass as slight town too. Shad feels iffy to me a bit. I want to hear more from Laine.

I actually have nothing on Shad so far. He hasn't appeared yet to talk to me, but what Pizza/Lenlo said about his claiming he has meta on other people was interesting to me. I'd be curious to know what meta he actually has.

Talk to me about Shad. Gut read?

 

 You keep talking about gut reads after mentioning youre not a fan of them....you can see why this isnt sitting right with me right....

 

Like i get you're asking someone else for theirs but for someone who claims they wanna use their own brain for reads this is pretty contradictory and contradictory usually always equals scummy Penny.....

[wish-tree]

My quotes are broken. T.T

 

Anyway, Zander and anyone else who asks about Penny's unvote of Cass, it's acknowledging that it's a joke vote. Otherwise she would have pushed through with it.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*
Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 
Do you believe, even if it is inaccurate, that this is her honest opinion? You're saying she's remembering incorrectly or is lying deliberately or neither.

I believe this is her honest opinion despite forgetting that simple fact.

I want to know what you think of me, actually. And since I trust you so far, I would also like your gut reads.
(What works, works. Meh.)

I think your slight town so far. Although I have my reservations. Cass as slight town too. Shad feels iffy to me a bit. I want to hear more from Laine.

I actually have nothing on Shad so far. He hasn't appeared yet to talk to me, but what Pizza/Lenlo said about his claiming he has meta on other people was interesting to me. I'd be curious to know what meta he actually has.
Talk to me about Shad. Gut read?

Yeah, from reading his posts once I joined. They seem a bit forced. What reads do you have?

I'm liking Cass, you, Pizza, maybe Lainey.

Reservations on calling Shad town or scum until he comes back to defend himself.

Lenlo and Kaylee are slightly towny for now.

Other people need to stop ignoring me and talk to me.

 

 

 

 

Concerning reads...WHY???

[wish-tree]

For one thing, Zander

I'm Lenny..

 

Secondly

 

Contradictions are not inherently scummy. I think you're trying too hard to pull at straws, but that in itself isn't scummy.

 

I clarified why I tone read and hate it. It works, so I do it. I'd much rather prefer to use my brain, but that often leads to WIFOM. Also, I'd like for a chance to use my brain, thank you very much. Going to reread the Shad bit, because I am not convinced atm.

 

I still want to town read you, but this kind of nitpicking/TMI makes me a little reluctant. I admit that there's some confirmation bias, because I have a tendency to town-read people who call me town. 

[Zander?]

Turin and Zander -- talk to me! This means you!

 

 

Catching up will be available for real time chat shortly...Ive posted questions and concerns about you I need you to address and address well because I'm not feeling Town!Penny atp and that's not a good thing for you.....

[wish-tree]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 

Do you believe, even if it is inaccurate, that this is her honest opinion? You're saying she's remembering incorrectly or is lying deliberately or neither.

I believe this is her honest opinion despite forgetting that simple fact.

I want to know what you think of me, actually. And since I trust you so far, I would also like your gut reads.

(What works, works. Meh.)

I think your slight town so far. Although I have my reservations. Cass as slight town too. Shad feels iffy to me a bit. I want to hear more from Laine.

I actually have nothing on Shad so far. He hasn't appeared yet to talk to me, but what Pizza/Lenlo said about his claiming he has meta on other people was interesting to me. I'd be curious to know what meta he actually has.

Talk to me about Shad. Gut read?

Yeah, from reading his posts once I joined. They seem a bit forced. What reads do you have?

I'm liking Cass, you, Pizza, maybe Lainey.

 

Reservations on calling Shad town or scum until he comes back to defend himself.

 

Lenlo and Kaylee are slightly towny for now.

 

Other people need to stop ignoring me and talk to me.

 

 

 

 

Concerning reads...WHY???

I can go back and pull out single posts in isolation, if it tickles your fancy. 

[wish-tree]

 

Turin and Zander -- talk to me! This means you!

 

 

Catching up will be available for real time chat shortly...Ive posted questions and concerns about you I need you to address and address well because I'm not feeling Town!Penny atp and that's not a good thing for you.....

 

I'm not penny, maybe that's why. :P

[wish-tree]

We are not the same person. Just because we hydra'd together doesn't mean anything :|

[Zander?]

Zander, put the pedal to the medal.

 

I don't like having you as a +1 villager. I should have like 7 points from you by now.

 

Hugs brother. Giving you the space to do your thing.

 

[wish-tree]

If this is the Shad meta thingy you guys were hung up about

 

Again, looking closely at it, it just feels like some friendly buddying. Not really indicative of alignment either way. 

 

It's an intro post, and it might be an exaggeration that he knows everyone's meta fully that he mentioned. But that's not inherently scummy @Turin 

 

 

 

Zander Laine Lenlo Nolder

 

 

Only players in this game I feel I have a pretty solid grasp of meta on.

 

It's going to be fun playing with so many unfamiliar faces.  A different sort of challenge than I've gotten used to.

 

 

Well, unfamiliar relatively speaking.  I think I've played with all of you at least once except Cass.

 

 

 

Only players in this game I feel I have a pretty solid grasp of meta on.

 

It's going to be fun playing with so many unfamiliar faces.  A different sort of challenge than I've gotten used to.

You have a solid grasp of my meta? Do tell, its always fun hearing what others think.

 

 

 

It's not something you can put in a box.

 

 

 

It's not something you can put in a box.

So does this mean its bigger or smaller than a breadbox?

 

 

 

A breadbox is no good for storing souls.

 

You have to freeze them or they get all mushy.

 

 

So like, an Ice Tray?

 

 

But will you be the chill to my lemonade, or will I cast you to the dogs?

 

 

Im more of a cat person.

 

 

Me too! 

 

 

Shad Obv Town, 11 more to go.

 

 

Ok so Lenlo's lock town ldo.

 

 

[Kaylee]

 

 

My quotes are broken. T.T

 

Anyway, Zander and anyone else who asks about Penny's unvote of Cass, it's acknowledging that it's a joke vote. Otherwise she would have pushed through with it.

As I told her, it wasn't the fact that she unvoted, but the timing that was off. Not sure why you feel you need to defend her though she's already said the same thing. She didn't address the timing which is what was being questioned.

[Zander?]

 

 

@ Cass, I would say that Lenlo posting in that manner is completely null for him (1). Also too early for it to mean anything about Shad as they were basically the only two in thread at that time (2).

Ty! (*Numbers added to points for reference)

1) What differences would you expect from Lenlo as either alignment?

2) Do you have a read on either?

 

In that particular jokey exchange I would expect Len to be exactly the same in either alignment. He loves to have fun with the other players even if it makes him potentially look bad. The fun is (or at least was) more important to him. That is why I said it is completely null.

 

Now if at a later time he tries to use that read as valid then I would find him most suspicious.

 

 

 

You havent played in awhile Turrin...are you familiar with Len's current style?  Ive only played with him since he's come back and every game he keeps getting better and better and Ive seen him as Town, Scum and 3rd party.  I think you need to make sure you factor his evolution as an even better player into your read of him.

[wish-tree]

 

 

My quotes are broken. T.T

 

Anyway, Zander and anyone else who asks about Penny's unvote of Cass, it's acknowledging that it's a joke vote. Otherwise she would have pushed through with it.

As I told her, it wasn't the fact that she unvoted, but the timing that was off. Not sure why you feel you need to defend her though she's already said the same thing. She didn't address the timing which is what was being questioned.

 

oh, I just like being right about my town reads

 

Was catching up, anyway, so must have missed that

 

I don't see any issues with the timing?

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

FWIW I've played with Penny more than I've played with anyone else (twice). I'll let her play a bit and when I think I've got a better handle/she's settled properly into a groove I'll compare her play more thoroughly with what I've seen. She was fairly closed but straight-shooting in the last game. Gut says she's probably pushing you for reactions, using the joke vote on me to test. I don't have a problem with that vote.
 
With the bold:
1. Why don't you agree with the vote?
2. Are you against joke-votes in general?
3. What are your own philosophies/tendencies wrt voting, when you're Town?
 
I can potentially understand the reserve, but I want explanations in your words. It stands out to me because so far I haven't seen experienced players hold back early votes as Town if they think the player deserves some actual pressure?

1. The target is my current easiest-read villager. That's unrelated to when the vote was cast, or even if it was before you started looking townie to me. I feel scums are going to vote for villagers more today than each other. When your vote is on someone I think is town-telling I don't care when you cast it, it still concerns me and I want to know more. Example Turin's vote on Shad.

 

2. No, but I hadn't any inkling it was intended as a joke. Missed the humor there if it was. Joking is part of the game but I do have issues when I can't see the humor in something and I generally read it scummy.

 

3. In general just to avoid voting for people I think are town, until it's a question of being required to make a choice between them.

 

Further, voting for someone I find scummy, or just to get the discussion going, or someone I have as null if I don't have any scummy people, or my scummy person is already getting multiple votes and I want to gain more data than just wagoning one person.

 

Why I'd hold back on voting someone is sometimes I'd rather draw them out more, whereas voting sometimes provokes a defensive / shutting down reaction. Example, I felt like I'd be able to read NotBob better a couple games back by not voting him, than by voting him. Plus I had a more scummy target for most of the game.

 

I had early suspicion of NotBob and Nolder in one game and I voted Nolder, and pushed on NotBob, and then I had early suspicion of Lenlo and tried to resolve it through pressure, and then when I got enough from him that caused me to see it was outside of a typical scum behavior, I dropped it and went after a different suspect. I thought that was much more useful in solving Lenlo than not engaging him because he's already an open player and drawn out. Nolder I had also pegged as someone who was a more open townie than not, but NotBob I felt was a closed player.

 

Closed players have a very different style from me, and pressuring them doesn't get a reaction. I vote them to lynch them, not pressure them.

 

I try to solve the open players with pressure votes more. Gets their attention, gets their reactions better.

 

But that's one reason in a stew of reasons why I'd vote a certain way. Sometimes that gets overridden by other concerns, so I wouldn't say I have a definite pattern here. Just some principles that shine through to the surface more than others, at certain times.

 

 

I think that's a comprehensive answer but let me know.

 

 

Very comprehensive TY! I also really struggle with closed players I don't know, and I get the logic. Not as worried about how you mentioned 'could vote' instead of just voting now. 

 

@Zander!!! - Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kaylee!
 
Can you elaborate on the bold please?
 
- What makes you feel good/Why?
- What meta do you have on Town!/Scum!Lenlo?

 

 

 

I like the feel of your posts. You don't seem to be reserved as you do when scum. I've been scum with you and as scum you tend to come across as being careful. This game you seem to be trying to figure things out. Basically saying things \pointing them out as you see them. You're thinking things through but don't seem to care as much how you're coming across... More focused on the game and less on yourself I guess is what I'm saying.

On Leno: As town he's more likely to say whatever pops in his head, less filtered. As scum he's very careful what and how he says things. As I said it's early yet but leaning town.

 

Ok for Kaylee's rational on me - I've seen her make the same call on me as Town before with similar reasoning.

 

Ty for the input on Lenlo. Watching that space.

 

 

Noted this. Penny is my name not one of my many usernames.

 

Penn, current leans?

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, lovelies. I forgot about this game while trying to fill in signups for my own game.

Anyway, I'm about to leave in a few hours.

First things first, I haven't played very frequently with many people.

I'd like to say from initial post reads, my two solid town reads are Cass and Celeste.

Enthusiasm and involvement looking good from Cass.

Celeste is town because of her tone. You'll have to trust me on this. Played with her a lot.

With that said, bye. *poofs*
Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

Who... are you? Have we met?
I like the vote of confidence ( ) but how am I a solid Town read? Seems odd, but I'll wait for your identity and answer before I comment on my lean.

 

 

 

Hi, I'm Lenny! Feel free to call me that in thread.

 

 

Lennnnnnyyyyyyyyyy!

 

I thought from the reads it might be you, but.. Why on Earth did you use the word lovelies???

 

@Penny is this normal in game??

 

@Thread - I fully expect these two to be able to figure each other out. 

 

Lovelies is weird because Lenny's not usually a flowery/emotive sort of girl. I've never played with her before.

 

 

 

 

Sorry my dear if im being dense but can you please clarify what it is exactly that you'd like my thoughts on and I'll answer you for sure!!!!

[Shad_]

download libre office.

 

it's free and awesome.

+100000000 for spreadsheets. I still prefer a plain format-stripping text editor.

[Kaylee]

She unvoted shortly after being questioned by Pizza. He didn't realize it was a joke vote.

[wish-tree]

She unvoted shortly after being questioned by Pizza. He didn't realize it was a joke vote.

Okay, ty.

 

I thought it was pretty obvious. Hmm.

[wish-tree]

 

download libre office.

 

it's free and awesome.

+100000000 for spreadsheets. I still prefer a plain format-stripping text editor.

 

Shad! Thoughts and stuff?

[Zander?]

Zander, are you really having issues trusting Turin, Kaylee, and Celeste?

 

That's my exact bottom 3.

 

Not that they're super scummy, I just don't think we've ever mindmelded that hard this early before.

 

 

Im still catching up so remind me to answer this once I have all the info.  But ill say this...atp none of them are town leans.

[wish-tree]

Also, @Zander

 

I believe I've answered all your questions except for why I read Kayley/Lenlo as slight town.

 

The reason for that is a lean, as I've mentioned before. I'm going to attempt to explain it, but as I've mentioned before, it's little things that I notice that cause me to develop these reads.

 

brb

[Zander?]

 

 

Going to brunch bbl.

 

MAKE SURE TO ANSWER MY QUESTION IF YOU HAVENT ALREADY!!

I answered this jokingly already. Is this actually something serious brother?

 

 

Want to vote Celeste but hesitating hard.

Why? Is it because I randomly voted Cass? Or something else.

[unvote]

This is unvote to some questioning is very strange imo.

 

Why unvote now Penny?

That's what I asked. Curious why you asked soon after me.

 

 

Because Im catching up???!!!

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Trust is earned. ;)

 

Go ahead and back up your Celeste town read. Cite the posts you're looking at and the reasons you're using. Use examples (plural) of her acting that way as town and contrast with a scum game of hers.

 

You want to persuade me she's town you have to work at it.

I agreed with this. Liking Pizza's tone.

 

..........Strictly uneasy of Kay because #Frozen......

 

i wanted to "lolololololol" but I can't because well you know.....#Frozen

I don't get the comment Zander. It's not like that's the only comment I've made.

 

 

My comment wasnt based on your comment at all....ITS STRICTLY BECAUSE YOU STOLE A WIN FROM MY VILLAGE IN FROZEN!!!!!

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Wish you said you'd be leaving in a few hours, then you left immediately.

 

I'm not saying it's a tell or a major concern, but I generally dislike the fly-by and the lack of real time involvement.

Sorry, the in was a for. I meant leave for a few hours, not in a few hours.

 

 

 

Pizza how do you feel about this?  I dont have hardly any Meta on her so I don't know if I can bring myself to buy it or not.

 

 

I am 100% fine with it.

 

This can be a trigger for a mislynch way too often for it to ever be useful, you gotta discard it.

 

If Wish is scum she'll give you something much more solid and likely to be a lie or manipulative bit of behavior.

 

 

OK fair enough.  Ill keep that in my mind as Im evaluating her but atp shes at the lower end of my reads...

 

 

 

 

 

Going to brunch bbl.

 

MAKE SURE TO ANSWER MY QUESTION IF YOU HAVENT ALREADY!!

I answered this jokingly already. Is this actually something serious brother?

 

 

Want to vote Celeste but hesitating hard.

Why? Is it because I randomly voted Cass? Or something else.

[unvote]

This is unvote to some questioning is very strange imo.

 

Why unvote now Penny?

That's what I asked. Curious why you asked soon after me.

 

 

I find that Zander posts as he catches up. Look at the time stamp / date of the posts he's quoting.

 

You can see he's a couple hundred posts behind, he's not even reading what we're saying right now.

 

He's Past Zander right now. He's got to catch up with the present timeline.

 

 

Thank You!!!!

 

Almost in the now brother!!!!

[Shad_]

 

 

download libre office.

 

it's free and awesome.

+100000000 for spreadsheets. I still prefer a plain format-stripping text editor.

 

Shad! Thoughts and stuff?

 

on p10 atm, baby just fell asleep on my lap, if I can get him to stay that way I'll sneak over to my desktop and speed things up a bit. Any particular questions for me in the meantime?