[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Shad_]

Oliver just broke my laptop charger.

[Shad_]

Yep, it's broke.

 

I've got about an hour or two left on the battery and then it's going to be a lot of cellphone play for the next two days. Not going to miss the playoffs.

[Shad_]

This is unvote to some questioning is very strange imo.

 

Why unvote now Penny?

Piggy-backs the unvote suss @ Celeste. If Celeste was his partner, he'd surely believe she can wiggle out of it--not like it's some huge scum siren--so why encourage other people's suspicion of it?  Especially when he's not anticipating that csarmi is going to have a stellar performance, doubt he's going to be pushing a scum mate Celeste more than necessary.

[Shad_]

....Len

 

I didnt say say or said I felt she was calling me Scum.  I said it seemed like she was approaching her read of me having ALREADY with the opinion of me being scummy.  But like I said i'm also factoring in that we didnt play together before and have the same personality type so I understand the bits of paranoia.  You know me well enough now that Im gonna call out everything and anything I see or feel that feels off to me.

This reminds me of how Zander spoke to me at EoD irt Pizza.

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

@ Cass, I would say that Lenlo posting in that manner is completely null for him (1). Also too early for it to mean anything about Shad as they were basically the only two in thread at that time (2).

Ty! (*Numbers added to points for reference)

1) What differences would you expect from Lenlo as either alignment?

2) Do you have a read on either?

 

In that particular jokey exchange I would expect Len to be exactly the same in either alignment. He loves to have fun with the other players even if it makes him potentially look bad. The fun is (or at least was) more important to him. That is why I said it is completely null.

 

Now if at a later time he tries to use that read as valid then I would find him most suspicious.

 

 

 

 

You havent played in awhile Turrin...are you familiar with Len's current style?  Ive only played with him since he's come back and every game he keeps getting better and better and Ive seen him as Town, Scum and 3rd party.  I think you need to make sure you factor his evolution as an even better player into your read of him.

 

 

This was a weird post irt Lenlo.  Turin had said Lenlo's action was null.  Zander interjects: no, you're wrong, it is actually null.

 

Not sure what to make of it, but it caught my eye on reread.

[Shad_]

I suppose I'm wasting my time even looking at posts related to Turin/Lenlo.

[Kaylee]

 

This is unvote to some questioning is very strange imo.

 

Why unvote now Penny?

Piggy-backs the unvote suss @ Celeste. If Celeste was his partner, he'd surely believe she can wiggle out of it--not like it's some huge scum siren--so why encourage other people's suspicion of it? Especially when he's not anticipating that csarmi is going to have a stellar performance, doubt he's going to be pushing a scum mate Celeste more than necessary.

I can see that...maybe. it's good to look at stuff like this and clear whomever we can.

[Shad_]

 

My quotes are broken. T.T

 

Anyway, Zander and anyone else who asks about Penny's unvote of Cass, it's acknowledging that it's a joke vote. Otherwise she would have pushed through with it.

 

Again and I think its been pretty clear ITS NOT THE JOKE VOTE ITSELF!!!! ITS THE TIMING!!!!!

 

At this point Zander could have backed off Celeste, but he didn't. I think he was really hoping to make her a mislynch target for the day.

[Shad_]

 

I don't see any issues with the timing?

 

 

When someone unvotes after being pressured/questioned about it would you not say that person is Scum more often then not?

 

 

The timing was because I would have forgotten that I joke vote her which happens sometimes XD

 

 

MEH

 

Still trying to drum up some violence against Celeste. Timing of his switch onto Wish might be important. Did he make the move after my comment that Wish spews Celeste town? Did he push a TMI/buddying angle against Wish at that point?

[Shad_]

 

 

The timing was because I would have forgotten that I joke vote her which happens sometimes XD

Fair enough I suppose.

 

 

 

Are you really ok with this response???

 

 

Imo I don't really pay attention to timing much because I forget things sometimes.

 

 

MEH AGAIN

 

Note that he just keeps calling Celeste's posts crap. He's never questioning her himself. His focus is on trying to convince other people to focus on her.

[Shad_]

Correction, he was pushing Wish too earlier.

[Shad_]

 

Zander: I don't know her well enough. Could or be coincidence? Perhaps. Hence the fair enough comment. It's possible. Do I suspect her enough to vote? Not at this time. It stood out, I said as much and she gave an explanation. I agree it's meh.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For one thing, Zander

I'm Lenny..

 

Secondly

 Contradictions are not inherently scummy. I think you're trying too hard to pull at straws, but that in itself isn't scummy.

 I clarified why I tone read and hate it. It works, so I do it. I'd much rather prefer to use my brain, but that often leads to WIFOM. Also, I'd like for a chance to use my brain, thank you very much. Going to reread the Shad bit, because I am not convinced atm.

 I still want to town read you, but this kind of nitpicking/TMI makes me a little reluctant. I admit that there's some confirmation bias, because I have a tendency to town-read people who call me town. 

 

 

Sorry my dear about the name mix up!!!

 

 

 

Thats the look on my face when I read this post....

 

Contradictions arent scummy??!!!  My very first game, Cory got me a mentor ALOT was his name....and the first piece of advice to me was....look for contradictions they more often then not lead to Scum....its worked very well for my thus far!!!!

 

And elaborate on your grasping at straws/nitpicking and most important the TMI comments there Penny because imo they have 0 merit and are a poor look from you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 

 

Do you believe, even if it is inaccurate, that this is her honest opinion? You're saying she's remembering incorrectly or is lying deliberately or neither.

 

I believe this is her honest opinion despite forgetting that simple fact.

 

I want to know what you think of me, actually. And since I trust you so far, I would also like your gut reads.

(What works, works. Meh.)

 

I think your slight town so far. Although I have my reservations. Cass as slight town too. Shad feels iffy to me a bit. I want to hear more from Laine.

 

I actually have nothing on Shad so far. He hasn't appeared yet to talk to me, but what Pizza/Lenlo said about his claiming he has meta on other people was interesting to me. I'd be curious to know what meta he actually has.

Talk to me about Shad. Gut read?

 

Yeah, from reading his posts once I joined. They seem a bit forced. What reads do you have?

 

I'm liking Cass, you, Pizza, maybe Lainey.

Reservations on calling Shad town or scum until he comes back to defend himself.

Lenlo and Kaylee are slightly towny for now.

Other people need to stop ignoring me and talk to me.

 

 

 

Concerning reads...WHY???

 

I can go back and pull out single posts in isolation, if it tickles your fancy.

 

 

 

Yes it most certainly would!!!!

 

We are not the same person. Just because we hydra'd together doesn't mean anything :|

 

Again im sorry and Ill try to not mix you ladies up again (or at least not very often)

 

 

lololololololol

 

Did you mean Lenny is not town earlier?

 

 

 

 

Well as of now youre both in my top Scum reads so take from that what you will.....

 

Well your wrong first of all because your not telling me the reasons WHY first of all. I also want to know who you think Wish is? Lenny or Penny?

 

 

 

Soor if I dont take your word at face value there Penny.  The unvote timing to pressure and reasoning are sticking out to me big time.

 

Why did he quote Kaylee at the top of this post? He never talks about Kaylee. It feels like he's trying to show that he's not the only player suspicious of Celeste.  Again, looks like a serious attempt to pressure a town.  In Zandermind it probably looks better to drag a town's "opinion" into the equation than a scum mate's.  Not massively clearing, but not a bad look for Kaylee here.

[Shad_]

 

=_= Aye aye this is ridiculous since your basing it off of the timing of taking off a joke vote? That is super poor reasoning Zander imo.

 

 

About as ridiculous as you thinking just because I mix up your very similar RL's names I dont know who Im talking about....???!!!

 

Also im feeling there is some poss w/w equity between you both atp.  I mean its not like youve done anything up to this point that would lead me to believe that you are Town.  Also it doesnt hurt Pizza whose prolly my best Town read thus far feels the same.

 

fwiw I feel worse about Lenny (WIsh) then you atp.

 

 

This is where he explicitly links Wish/Celeste as w/w and turns his priority onto Wish.

[Shad_]

@ Nol concerning post #429

 

Seriously about your response to my post.  You gave me negative marks for natural tone and joke because you feel like I engage in hypothetical as my Meta to determine alignment to something I thought was a joke??!?!!

 

lololololololol

 

I dont get it but if its helping you actually figure stuff out then glgl brother!!!!

 

Defensive/discrediting post, similar to how he treats Cass but without calling it scummy.

[Shad_]

Why you gonna NK me......????

 

lololololololol

 

but really are you????

 

lololololololol

[Kaylee]

Good points for possible town Celeste. Still want more from her.

[wish-tree]

Agreed.

 

She did tell me her fingers were tired from button mashing Final Fantasy

 

soooo

 

it might be a while

[wish-tree]

Also

 

I need to go potate for a while

 

Like vegetate

 

byeee

[Shad_]

 

 

@ Shad dude wth are you seeing with Csarmi man???!!!  I dont get it....I mean not just a Town read but YOUR TOP TOWN READ???!!!?!?!?!?  WTF

 

And also Alanna has your scummiest is also pretty bad imo.

 

Sorry brother not seeing either of those like at all!!!!!

 

Blue, consider it a call for the rest of you to town harder.

 

Red, my scum order was borderline arbitrary except for Turin being the least bad of the four, and I posted that prior to/still haven't finished absorbing Laine's most recent catch-up post(s?).

 

 

 

BLUE:  Shad ok MAYBE you see something I dont.....but you damn well know NOBODY Towns harder then I do!!!

 

RED: No real scum reads at all then?  Is that what youre getting at with that?

 

Zander legit annoyed that I find his scum mate townier than him. He accepts the read but grudgingly. I think it shows he was pretty willing to bus Salami from the start, which makes me think he'd be less aggressive towards his other partner(s).

[Shad_]

Challenges Laine a lot. She'd said early on that she wouldn't be bought off by him simply buttering her up and calling her lock town. Rather than trying to get other people to find her scummy, he's engaging her very directly. It feels like he's trying to convince her that he doesn't trust her. He's basically feeding her exactly what she asked for, and it reads to me more like an attempt to earn her trust than an attempt to distance.

[Shad_]

What would a Celeste Town flip make you feel about Wish Shad?

Very interesting.

[Shad_]

Middle of page 8 in my Zander ISO, laptop battery is dead so I'm switching to phone. That will probably impact how much I can comment. So far I feel like he's spewing Laine Celeste and Cass town.

[Celeste]

I need food and a bit of a break

[Lenlo]

Alright, gamenights over. Almost killed the paladin, pesky cleric.

 

Gonna try and do some more reading.

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok. Sorry I haven't been here in a while. Zander pushed Lenny/me a lot which makes me think we were his scape goats. I also wanted to say earlier that Csarmi town read Zander before scum reading him I believe.

 

 

Kind of not feeling good on Kaylee with how much Zander said they are mind melding.

[v]Kaylee[/v]

I'm not opposed to this but I really need to figure you two out.

 

The vibe I got toward EoD was that Kaylee did a lot to get out of her lynch, and she did it well. This could come from Scum or Town Kaylee IMO. My gut feel later was that she could be scum bussing Csarmi and buddying me once Csarmi started going down (if I've understood correctly, this is in Kaylee's meta and something she does well). It was a strong feel and FWIW if she's the scum this fits with Shad's theory that I'm scum scapegoat in Zander's eyes. There were a couple of things she said that I thought were either indications that she was genuinely more confident that I was Town or buddying me. It freaked me out a little and I backed off to see how she'd respond today. I wish I could trust her, but I don't.

 

On the other hand, I always read Kay scum. She's impossible for me. She could be Town.

 

@Penny

I think you're probably Town, but I can't lock you in yet, and I'd feel better if I could.

 

1. Why are you pulling out Kaylee in particular? IMO he mentioned mind-melding much more noticeably with Laine.

 

2. What do you make of Nolder, Lenlo, Pral?

 

 

 

General thought: If there is a Godfather, it's probably not Wish.

 

Unless you think Zander hard busses his GF on day 1.

 

Also, love the hard work you put in last night but we have to reconsider EoD in light of confirmed competing scum trains.

blue was @ Laine btw

I can see Zander hard bussing GF D1, for sure.

 

Where are you at on Nolder and Pral?

 

 

1. Laine seemed to have some reservations to Zander saying they are mind melding I believe. Kaylee didn't have any hesitant thoughts at all to it.

 

2. Pral I have been suspicious of. This feels like his scum play. Nolder needs to be looked at closely today. Lenlo is still iffy because he tunneled me most of yesterday. Didn't seem to be looking elsewhere.

Oh Penny, what am I going to do with you??

 

1. Ok, good point. Why is this enough to vote? Have you got anything else?

 

2. Give me examples of how Pral's play feels scummy to you. Explain as much as you can.

 

 

While we're at it, please find me some examples where you've cracked under pressure when Town.

 

 

 

If you're Town, I feel I intuitively get you now. I can't fully trust that yet though, I haven't seen all of your content and I haven't seen you scum :P

 

 

 

*snipped*

*snipped*

1. It just felt right in a way. I just feel like Kaylee has more wolf equity with her talking of Zander in a way than others.

 

2. I really can't explain gut vibes well, you just have to believe me on them. http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Ft5AzhkhYF4W I don't remember where it got rough but it was a horrible loss of temper for me.

Celeste: I'd like you to dig into this for me (blue parts).

 

Shad: What theory are you talking about here (purple part)? (I think this is what Cass wrote)

 

Cass: The part in red I've highlighted is really pingy to me. I don't know what to do with it. Please explain it and what your current read of Kaylee is.

 

 

You should probably ask Cass since she said it, but in a cellphone nutshell, I feel like Zander characterizes Cass's initial suspicion as paranoia/tinfoiling rather than merely wrong, and that strikes me as an attempt to get into her head and make her doubt herself. If it's distancing, it was very well played.