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World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively


Pralaya

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Good morning! I´m here and I will put a little more time into the game this morning. I think I want to do an iso on a few people. I have read the whole thread but that doesn´t mean that I remember much. I started to take notes but that fell after page 15. lol 

 

Here are my initial thoughts:

 

First - who is voting who? It feels like there are few people voting and those who did unvoted. 

 

I couldn´t read everything in the back and forth between Lenlo and Pizza but I think I got the major parts (because they were stated again and again and again...) First to Lenlo - I did not agree with Pizza. I was the second vote on your train, before Pizza. Second - my thoughts about it now:

 

* my reason for voting Lenlo was that it felt like he was trying to accuse Dice without actually doing it. Like he didn´t dare to vote him but still wanted to make him look scummy. Someone asked me (Shad? Zander?) why that would make him mafia. I have seen that many time, where mafia don´t want to take responsibility for leading someones lynch or being afraid of definite statements. 

 

I think this was Pizza´s first reason for voting Lenlo too and in that we agree(d). But I didn´t like the way he went after Lenlo and said that everything Lenlo said was scummy. He was obviously tunnelling Lenlo. I´m not sure what I feel about his unvote because I don´t think I really understand the reason for it. Need to read it again.

 

I liked Lenlo´s post #812 and now I need to figure out if I want to unvote him or not. I´ll see as I re-read some stuff. 

 

 

Even though I have a problem with Zander´s amount of posting I think he looks really good. 

 

Cory - don´t know but haven´t seen anything scummy. I kind of liked some of his posts toward Pizza but they haven´t really been about this game but more a meta-talk about how to approach mafia. I see that he posted a new list while I´m writing this so I will check it out.

 

BFG - she is asking a lot of questions, which she does as both alignments. She posts a lot, which is a good sign since I know that she has been afraid of posting too much as mafia earlier. (This is from at least half a year ago so I don´t know how it is now.) I still don´t think I have seen any results of the answers she has been given. Yesterday she just ended with "I´ll wait and see what Tina says when she comes back". (Which seems to be built on Cory´s suspicioun of me.) Well, now I´m back so I hope that I could get some clear statements about everyone. 

 

Nikon - isn´t here.

 

Shad - he posted a lot but he got mixed up with Zander-Lenlo-Pizza in my head so I don´t really remember his thoughts.

 

Nolder - Is laying low. Answers when questioned. Nothing so far.

 

Besie - I see that many of you think she is town but I haven´t payed attention to her so far (sorry Besie). Will need to iso.

 

Sooh - didn´t get good vibes from her earlier. I think it was about Lenlo. She had a bad feeling about Lenlo, then wanted to clear him, then liked what I and other said about him and then... I don´t know what she has written after that. Need to iso as well.

 

Who did I forget? 

 

That's the very first thought on my mind whenever I am scum and come into a game thread after being away.

 

Because my priority then is to base my actions in the coming posts on the temperature of the thread, and also, make sure I'm not hard defending a scumbag who is about to die, and see who is an easy townie to lynch.

 

That thought is less likely to come from a townie. It will happen but not as often as it will from a scumbag.

 

That brainwave alone should push Tina to the top of a lot of people's suspect lists.

 

 

 

 

FWIW- Pizza if Im wrong on you.  I dont feel I am but IF i am, I promise you again I will go through all your stuff and act accordingly on your behalf.

 

 

@ Zander

 

Your payment for me not shooting you tonight is the following:

 

You will lynch Tina this game. D2 preferably. If you die and she lives, you are helping me do it N2.

 

You WILL NOT lynch Sooh before Shad and Tina are both resolved one way or the other.

 

If Besie flips scum, learning experience.

 

I mean, you can always do whatever you want with more information than I have right now.

 

But if you were serious, my will is pretty clear.

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think hes definetly scum   would rather take him then tina  thats 2 scum in one day imo

 

I agree they must always be resolved, ASAP, but I think my village can handle it.

 

If they don't, and those persons were scum, Pizza will be more disappoint than a hypothetical universe where you guys never lynched Taborline after Zander's appeal last game. Or if BFG never died after mine.

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So here's one of the problems I am having with Besie.

 

 

 

Yes, her tone is fine. We know already she's capable of faking tone as a wolf, but still, her tone is fine. Understood. She's got an acerbic little edge to her posts, she has fight and vigor and when she gets pushed around she can get sort of prickly.

 

So the question for me on evaluation becomes is her tone genuine? Does her edge exists because she's a frustrated villager who is responding to baseless arguments against her, or is she simply playing the role of "offended villager"?

 

There's a little trick that the great CPHoyaids taught me that I sometimes go through when I evaluate tone. It's called the "well, is it real test?"

 

Take for example the post Besie made at BFG that BFG mentioned earlier:

 

 

 

 

 

@ BFG

 

I dislike that you say I go with the flow.

 

I'm not going with the flow. I'm making my own deductions from my own ways of reasoning. The only way I'm going with the flow is in reading, understanding and agreeing with several people's arguments. Including you. Do you WANT me to make a very random list? My list differs conciderably from Pizza's. Many people are at different alignments when compared to Cory and Zander's, with the main being Shad, I believe. And you just went and moved Shad to null-town, so I don't see how that's a problem. The only other thing I did was to move Len quite a bit, and you could possibly have seen that as going with the flow. It was not. It was my thoughts about things he said early game. And once again, no. I'm not referring to the "secret info" that Cory saw and Zander apparently sees too. It's my own, and I actually added even more to Len's villa after his argument with Pizza, and Pizza's reasoning.

 

If you want to say that I'm sheeping (cause that's what go with the flow is!) then at least give proper examples. I'm NOT sheeping my top scum read. I'm not even sheeping my top town reads, except on Tina. Want me to stop going with the flow? Then I refuse to vote someone who I have no experience with and can see no reason for their negative alignment.

Read this post carefully and note the attitude. There is visible frustration here. Closed sentences "I'm not [etc.], It was not [etc.]" - accusatory glances "You just went and..." that posit a comparison for a justification of behavior. "Then I refuse..."; you get it, you can read.

 

This is the post of someone a little ticked off and that ticked-offedness coming through in their posting style.

 

This post was made at 6:08.

 

Besie posted again three minutes later:

 

 

 

And them my last catchup post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

id vote shad  not pizza

 

Im fine with Shad but why not Pizza DIce?

 

cause i think he is town and because half the arguments for lynching him seems to be "but hes hard to read! lets play safe"   not a fan

 

Fair enough

 

But I don't play safe I PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!

 

bb576efc437a1aa3010baaa02c8ad470.400x251

 

And in order to do that I have to find 3 wolves.  I think theres more reasons to vote Pizza then what your referring to. But I'm happy to roll Shad or less happily roll Tina cause flips will make solving this much easier for us.

 

Mmmm.

 

 

 

Ugh.

 

Conflicted.

80faf23505331ac9de1e2c72102a4688.jpg

 

Noooooo! WRONG GIF! Zander!

 

THE BOULDER IS CONFLICTED!

 

I'm not.

I want to vote Pizza.

For reasons already given. He's been my top scum for a while, and I feel more confident voting him as scum than any else atm. Call it POE, if you must.

 

 

 

no one can actually EXPLAIN zander...

Im pretty easy to figure out....like on my gravestone it will say these 6 things:

 

He Loved God

He Loved his Children

He Loved Bacon

He Loved Beer

He Loved To Town

And by God He Lunched a Hell of A lot of Wolves.

 

:wub:

 

 

Now Zander while he is going to sleep, tell meeeee!

Curiosity killed the cat.

 

 

 

 

 

id vote shad  not pizza

 

Im fine with Shad but why not Pizza DIce?

 

cause i think he is town and because half the arguments for lynching him seems to be "but hes hard to read! lets play safe"   not a fan

 

Dice so towny!

 

Yeah I don't see how this makes him towny AT ALL. At all. There's so many other factors that contribute to Pizza being the most scummy.

 

Are you, Sooh, and Dice, w/w?

 

 

 

I'm voting Pizza. I have no problem switching that to Sooh or Dice. Sooh more so than Dice. Can't shake my distrust of them.

 

I don't like that lynching Pizza is a definite lynch on Shad. I still have not done the iso, though. I'll do that now that I've caught up. I'm trusting my top town reads again, that have said that shad is scummy. And I don't like that. I want my own opinions.

 

 

 

And I just edited this post so that I didn't vote Pizza because 1) it'll put him at -1 and 2) because I want to hear what BFG says first.

 

 

 

In here, she is joking, confident, ready to give opinions.

 

CPHoya posited something like the following: "You can tell when somebody is faking tone when there is no linear consistency to it. If someone who is specifically using tonal elements of their play to attack or defend and then act completely differently about something else, it's very likely that their attack / defense was in-genuine, as it was concealed to a single event and did not effect them in any real or noticeable way."

 

So if we're considering Besie a villager because of tonal elements of her game, here's my challenge.

 

I don't think Besie genuinely gets flustered about BFG's criticism of her play during the game and then, with absolutely zero forward consideration of what she just posted, jokingly finishes her catch-up like literally nothing happened. There's a mood shift that only exists if you look for it, and the only real GUESS I can make at why the mood switches so quickly is that the original "snarling defense" was an act meant to deceive and not genuine.

 

And I don't know what motive Besie has to deceive BFG as a villager, but I can think otherwise.

 

Just a snapshot of my brain and the things I consider for all of you to think about.

 

 

Timestamps are probably against you here, I doubt she read, quoted and responded in her MQ in 3 minutes, so it was prepped before she responded to me, I looked for her next post, which would be the one that actually follows her response to me, but it was just 'apologies' or something.

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think hes definetly scum   would rather take him then tina  thats 2 scum in one day imo

 

I agree they must always be resolved, ASAP, but I think my village can handle it.

 

If they don't, and those persons were scum, Pizza will be more disappoint than a hypothetical universe where you guys never lynched Taborline after Zander's appeal last game. Or if BFG never died after mine.

 

:dry:

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There are times, my good lady, when a villager is strongly against a suspect enough, that if village blows them off and never resolves them, and they win the game, it will bring shame and disgrace on their family name for generations.

 

This is close to being one of those times.

 

I believe there are two wolves inside of Shad, Tina, and Besie. It's also possible that is the exact team.

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Sorry if I'm slow to respond, I'm cooking tea

 

 

 

<snip>

 

I get what youre saying now as referring to Len.

 

Also i see where youre coming from with my initial comment on Pizza being ok....its now changed.

 

My read on Besie is pretty serious.  I mean its only her 2nd game.  The first she was scum and hydra with me.  Her confidence was really good in her scum game as I find it is here as well but the difference is her ISO reads/list.  There really didnt appear to be any TMI type stuff.  And I feel her analysis game from not knowing who is who is that makes sense.  Im not saying i CANT be wrong I just really dont think I am.

 

Bolded....very interesting comment as Cory is currently voting her.  That comment pinged me for some reason now I gotta figure out why.

 

Why are Dice and Len your most solid reads thus far?

Dice really isn't?

 

Lenlo's thought process regarding how the night vote could go down seems 'honest', most of his disagreements seem to be genuine misunderstandings, not a huge fan of the train (but that's relatively minor), I like that he's engaged. I wouldn't say it was a solid read, there are a few points where he misses the joke and I'm not seeing the humour I want yet and I don't like the delay on his reads, but broadly speaking and overall I like his approach.

 

Sooh is a bit more of an indescribable feeling. I don't get any impression that she's guarding her words. BUT I don't think I've ever played with her as mafia so I can't say it's a confident read yet.

 

 

 

Yes sorry I mixed up Dice and Sooh from your post.  My bad.  But Sooh and Len were your best reads or most certain I think you said.  Its weird that your not confident in that after making that post.

 

I said 'unfortunately the only people I'm not looking at are Sooh and Lenlo' or similar

 

I don't like being 20 pages in and having such a large POE still, but it is what it is.

 

At the moment

 

Lenlo

Sooh

 

Cory

Zander

Besie

 

Unsorted

 

Shad

Dice

Nikon

Nolder

Pizza

Tina

 

But without rereading most people are barely out of null. I'm a bit worried that the current POE is mostly the people not posting right now, just seems odd, and need to read Shad when I'm not skimming. And I'm sitting here looking at the post button wondering if I'm actually ready to even temporarily remove you, Cory and Besie from the list, or if I'm being paranoid in hesitating.

 

 

 

All town leans, but barely. At that stage I wouldn't have put Lenlo or Sooh past a light green, and Besie, Zander, Cory were barely out of nulls (but town sided out of nulls). (The reason they were so low was because Zander and Cory need to do a lot more to make me trust them (enthusiastic openings are exactly null for me from them), Besie mostly because of lack of experience with her.)

 

 

Incidentally Zander, this is the post that Tina was probably talking about when she didn't know why I posted it. Tina I posted it because I was talking to Zander about my positions on people.

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So here's one of the problems I am having with Besie.

 

 

 

Yes, her tone is fine. We know already she's capable of faking tone as a wolf, but still, her tone is fine. Understood. She's got an acerbic little edge to her posts, she has fight and vigor and when she gets pushed around she can get sort of prickly.

 

So the question for me on evaluation becomes is her tone genuine? Does her edge exists because she's a frustrated villager who is responding to baseless arguments against her, or is she simply playing the role of "offended villager"?

 

There's a little trick that the great CPHoyaids taught me that I sometimes go through when I evaluate tone. It's called the "well, is it real test?"

 

Take for example the post Besie made at BFG that BFG mentioned earlier:

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ BFG

 

I dislike that you say I go with the flow.

 

I'm not going with the flow. I'm making my own deductions from my own ways of reasoning. The only way I'm going with the flow is in reading, understanding and agreeing with several people's arguments. Including you. Do you WANT me to make a very random list? My list differs conciderably from Pizza's. Many people are at different alignments when compared to Cory and Zander's, with the main being Shad, I believe. And you just went and moved Shad to null-town, so I don't see how that's a problem. The only other thing I did was to move Len quite a bit, and you could possibly have seen that as going with the flow. It was not. It was my thoughts about things he said early game. And once again, no. I'm not referring to the "secret info" that Cory saw and Zander apparently sees too. It's my own, and I actually added even more to Len's villa after his argument with Pizza, and Pizza's reasoning.

 

If you want to say that I'm sheeping (cause that's what go with the flow is!) then at least give proper examples. I'm NOT sheeping my top scum read. I'm not even sheeping my top town reads, except on Tina. Want me to stop going with the flow? Then I refuse to vote someone who I have no experience with and can see no reason for their negative alignment.

Read this post carefully and note the attitude. There is visible frustration here. Closed sentences "I'm not [etc.], It was not [etc.]" - accusatory glances "You just went and..." that posit a comparison for a justification of behavior. "Then I refuse..."; you get it, you can read.

 

This is the post of someone a little ticked off and that ticked-offedness coming through in their posting style.

 

This post was made at 6:08.

 

Besie posted again three minutes later:

 

 

 

And them my last catchup post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

id vote shad not pizza

Im fine with Shad but why not Pizza DIce?

cause i think he is town and because half the arguments for lynching him seems to be "but hes hard to read! lets play safe" not a fan
Fair enough

 

But I don't play safe I PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!

 

bb576efc437a1aa3010baaa02c8ad470.400x251

 

And in order to do that I have to find 3 wolves. I think theres more reasons to vote Pizza then what your referring to. But I'm happy to roll Shad or less happily roll Tina cause flips will make solving this much easier for us.

Mmmm.

 

 

 

Ugh.

 

Conflicted.

80faf23505331ac9de1e2c72102a4688.jpg
Noooooo! WRONG GIF! Zander!

 

THE BOULDER IS CONFLICTED!

 

I'm not.

I want to vote Pizza.

For reasons already given. He's been my top scum for a while, and I feel more confident voting him as scum than any else atm. Call it POE, if you must.

 

 

 

no one can actually EXPLAIN zander...

Im pretty easy to figure out....like on my gravestone it will say these 6 things:

 

He Loved God

He Loved his Children

He Loved Bacon

He Loved Beer

He Loved To Town

And by God He Lunched a Hell of A lot of Wolves.

:wub:

 

 

Now Zander while he is going to sleep, tell meeeee!

Curiosity killed the cat.

 

 

 

 

 

id vote shad not pizza

Im fine with Shad but why not Pizza DIce?

cause i think he is town and because half the arguments for lynching him seems to be "but hes hard to read! lets play safe" not a fan
Dice so towny!
Yeah I don't see how this makes him towny AT ALL. At all. There's so many other factors that contribute to Pizza being the most scummy.

 

Are you, Sooh, and Dice, w/w?

 

 

 

I'm voting Pizza. I have no problem switching that to Sooh or Dice. Sooh more so than Dice. Can't shake my distrust of them.

 

I don't like that lynching Pizza is a definite lynch on Shad. I still have not done the iso, though. I'll do that now that I've caught up. I'm trusting my top town reads again, that have said that shad is scummy. And I don't like that. I want my own opinions.

 

 

 

And I just edited this post so that I didn't vote Pizza because 1) it'll put him at -1 and 2) because I want to hear what BFG says first.

 

 

In here, she is joking, confident, ready to give opinions.

 

CPHoya posited something like the following: "You can tell when somebody is faking tone when there is no linear consistency to it. If someone who is specifically using tonal elements of their play to attack or defend and then act completely differently about something else, it's very likely that their attack / defense was in-genuine, as it was concealed to a single event and did not effect them in any real or noticeable way."

 

So if we're considering Besie a villager because of tonal elements of her game, here's my challenge.

 

I don't think Besie genuinely gets flustered about BFG's criticism of her play during the game and then, with absolutely zero forward consideration of what she just posted, jokingly finishes her catch-up like literally nothing happened. There's a mood shift that only exists if you look for it, and the only real GUESS I can make at why the mood switches so quickly is that the original "snarling defense" was an act meant to deceive and not genuine.

 

And I don't know what motive Besie has to deceive BFG as a villager, but I can think otherwise.

 

Just a snapshot of my brain and the things I consider for all of you to think about.

 

Timestamps are probably against you here, I doubt she read, quoted and responded in her MQ in 3 minutes, so it was prepped before she responded to me, I looked for her next post, which would be the one that actually follows her response to me, but it was just 'apologies' or something.

Yes. It was me saying I apologise because I had read and understood your post wrong.

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So here's one of the problems I am having with Besie.

 

 

 

Yes, her tone is fine. We know already she's capable of faking tone as a wolf, but still, her tone is fine. Understood. She's got an acerbic little edge to her posts, she has fight and vigor and when she gets pushed around she can get sort of prickly.

 

So the question for me on evaluation becomes is her tone genuine? Does her edge exists because she's a frustrated villager who is responding to baseless arguments against her, or is she simply playing the role of "offended villager"?

 

There's a little trick that the great CPHoyaids taught me that I sometimes go through when I evaluate tone. It's called the "well, is it real test?"

 

Take for example the post Besie made at BFG that BFG mentioned earlier:

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ BFG

 

I dislike that you say I go with the flow.

 

I'm not going with the flow. I'm making my own deductions from my own ways of reasoning. The only way I'm going with the flow is in reading, understanding and agreeing with several people's arguments. Including you. Do you WANT me to make a very random list? My list differs conciderably from Pizza's. Many people are at different alignments when compared to Cory and Zander's, with the main being Shad, I believe. And you just went and moved Shad to null-town, so I don't see how that's a problem. The only other thing I did was to move Len quite a bit, and you could possibly have seen that as going with the flow. It was not. It was my thoughts about things he said early game. And once again, no. I'm not referring to the "secret info" that Cory saw and Zander apparently sees too. It's my own, and I actually added even more to Len's villa after his argument with Pizza, and Pizza's reasoning.

 

If you want to say that I'm sheeping (cause that's what go with the flow is!) then at least give proper examples. I'm NOT sheeping my top scum read. I'm not even sheeping my top town reads, except on Tina. Want me to stop going with the flow? Then I refuse to vote someone who I have no experience with and can see no reason for their negative alignment.

Read this post carefully and note the attitude. There is visible frustration here. Closed sentences "I'm not [etc.], It was not [etc.]" - accusatory glances "You just went and..." that posit a comparison for a justification of behavior. "Then I refuse..."; you get it, you can read.

 

This is the post of someone a little ticked off and that ticked-offedness coming through in their posting style.

 

This post was made at 6:08.

 

Besie posted again three minutes later:

 

 

 

And them my last catchup post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

id vote shad not pizza

Im fine with Shad but why not Pizza DIce?

 

cause i think he is town and because half the arguments for lynching him seems to be "but hes hard to read! lets play safe" not a fan

 

Fair enough

 

But I don't play safe I PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!

 

bb576efc437a1aa3010baaa02c8ad470.400x251

 

And in order to do that I have to find 3 wolves. I think theres more reasons to vote Pizza then what your referring to. But I'm happy to roll Shad or less happily roll Tina cause flips will make solving this much easier for us.

 

Mmmm.

 

 

 

Ugh.

 

Conflicted.

80faf23505331ac9de1e2c72102a4688.jpg

 

Noooooo! WRONG GIF! Zander!

 

THE BOULDER IS CONFLICTED!

 

I'm not.

I want to vote Pizza.

For reasons already given. He's been my top scum for a while, and I feel more confident voting him as scum than any else atm. Call it POE, if you must.

 

 

 

no one can actually EXPLAIN zander...

Im pretty easy to figure out....like on my gravestone it will say these 6 things:

 

He Loved God

He Loved his Children

He Loved Bacon

He Loved Beer

He Loved To Town

And by God He Lunched a Hell of A lot of Wolves.

 

:wub:

 

 

Now Zander while he is going to sleep, tell meeeee!

Curiosity killed the cat.

 

 

 

 

 

id vote shad not pizza

Im fine with Shad but why not Pizza DIce?

 

cause i think he is town and because half the arguments for lynching him seems to be "but hes hard to read! lets play safe" not a fan

 

Dice so towny!

 

Yeah I don't see how this makes him towny AT ALL. At all. There's so many other factors that contribute to Pizza being the most scummy.

 

Are you, Sooh, and Dice, w/w?

 

 

 

I'm voting Pizza. I have no problem switching that to Sooh or Dice. Sooh more so than Dice. Can't shake my distrust of them.

 

I don't like that lynching Pizza is a definite lynch on Shad. I still have not done the iso, though. I'll do that now that I've caught up. I'm trusting my top town reads again, that have said that shad is scummy. And I don't like that. I want my own opinions.

 

 

 

And I just edited this post so that I didn't vote Pizza because 1) it'll put him at -1 and 2) because I want to hear what BFG says first.

 

 

 

In here, she is joking, confident, ready to give opinions.

 

CPHoya posited something like the following: "You can tell when somebody is faking tone when there is no linear consistency to it. If someone who is specifically using tonal elements of their play to attack or defend and then act completely differently about something else, it's very likely that their attack / defense was in-genuine, as it was concealed to a single event and did not effect them in any real or noticeable way."

 

So if we're considering Besie a villager because of tonal elements of her game, here's my challenge.

 

I don't think Besie genuinely gets flustered about BFG's criticism of her play during the game and then, with absolutely zero forward consideration of what she just posted, jokingly finishes her catch-up like literally nothing happened. There's a mood shift that only exists if you look for it, and the only real GUESS I can make at why the mood switches so quickly is that the original "snarling defense" was an act meant to deceive and not genuine.

 

And I don't know what motive Besie has to deceive BFG as a villager, but I can think otherwise.

 

Just a snapshot of my brain and the things I consider for all of you to think about.

 

 

Timestamps are probably against you here, I doubt she read, quoted and responded in her MQ in 3 minutes, so it was prepped before she responded to me, I looked for her next post, which would be the one that actually follows her response to me, but it was just 'apologies' or something.

 

Yes. It was me saying I apologise because I had read and understood your post wrong.

 

I meant that I couldn't take any tone from it /shrug

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