World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively

[Zander?]

 

Is Pizza's characterisation of his mafia game (when he says he doesn't like making enemies) fair?

Well I know he doesn't like making multiple powerful enemies early in game as scum. He tends to go for easier targets. 

 

You'll find that when he explains his meta to you as either alignment he's completely honest. He will do pretty much anything as any role.

 

Making enemies, however, is not usually part of his early scum game the way I've seen it. 

 

 

Makes his very early clears of Cory and myself look pretty interesting then don't it???

 

VOUCH 100% imo

 

All Wolves are my enemies!!!!

[BFG]

 

Is Pizza's characterisation of his mafia game (when he says he doesn't like making enemies) fair?

 

 

I mean I know Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I've talked to Pizza both in games and away from games about his Meta and style as each alignment and basically what I got from it all is: Pizza is pretty much capable for doing anything, at anytime, for any reason as any alignment.

 

Im sure his version would be much more concise and wordy but thats the TL-DR I took away from everything.

 

Pizza's version is considerably longer

[Sooh]

 

 

Is Pizza's characterisation of his mafia game (when he says he doesn't like making enemies) fair?

Well I know he doesn't like making multiple powerful enemies early in game as scum. He tends to go for easier targets. 

 

You'll find that when he explains his meta to you as either alignment he's completely honest. He will do pretty much anything as any role.

 

Making enemies, however, is not usually part of his early scum game the way I've seen it. 

 

 

Makes his very early clears of Cory and myself look pretty interesting then don't it???

 

VOUCH 100% imo

 

All Wolves are my enemies!!!!

 

Yes and no. Keep reading.

 

(I guess I'm defending again. Sue me)

[BFG]

 

 

 

So what's the difference between me and Shad?

You're more likely to have seen this movie than he is.

 

Genuine laugh

 

(we watched it a few weeks ago actually, my least favourite of the Cornetto trilogy, but still fun)

 

This is a trilogy? Whaaa???

 

Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz

[Zander?]

I'm lurking if anyone has something to say to me but at the moment I have no input to give.

 

wolfy......

 

 

Vote: Shad

 

Raisins?

 

Got a lot of unanswered questions to respond to.

 

Would lynch Shad, and shoot Tina in the face.

 

Raisins?

 

Thanks Pizza,

 

The tldr version of my read on you is that you seem to have enemies that you didn't actually go out and make, if that makes sense? You've gone after Lenlo, but not really explored or pushed the other people you found scummy, and based on your self explained meta from last game that worries me. Equally the longer you've been absent from thread the more I think it could just be that you haven't been here to push them

 

Not only do I like this Post it makes me feel better about BFG as well.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Makes his very early clears of Cory and myself look pretty interesting then don't it???

That will look the same, yes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can see I'm talking to Past-Zander, so I'll wait for you to catch up. :P

[BFG]

 

 

 

So what's the difference between me and Shad?

 

What do you mean? There are tons of differences. Do you mean why is something you did similar to Shad, but you're not scum and he is?

 

Pretty sure Nolder and Tina(?) think I'm not making waves (and at this point I can't really argue that), so if Shad's not making waves and mafia, why do you have me as townish?

 

 

That doesn't really follow.

 

That might follow if I wanted to mislynch you, because it's certainly specious. Sounds logical but isn't.

 

You are giving off indicators to me that make me think you're a townie, Shad is not. Shad then doing a behavior which looks scummy to me, tilts things against him.

 

I began town-reading you a long while ago, for some posts which I named. By your own admission in previous games, you tend to vote later.

 

Your behavior in this specific instance is more null, and you have posts I think are townie.

 

That's why generic, specious, and inconsistency-based things don't fly with me when I'm making a case. A lot of things LOOK like a lot of other things, and can be used easily by a scumbag who wants to look like their townie-selves. They'll even use the same tells and arguments they did when they're a townie, if they can get those tells to match up inappropriately in another circumstance on another person.

 

Shad feels differently from the previous game in the exact manner I am looking for, which is what led me down the path to Lenlo.

 

I'm looking for someone who wants to avoid the next 2 deaths, and that is their primary motivation.

 

I do not believe that is your primary motivation. Tina and Shad give me that impression, Lenlo did until he did not. Sooh gives me that impression a little bit, and a bit of the reason why Cory is dipping is because of that same idea.

 

Cory I am not scum reading yet because my initial impression was that his glee in being a townie this game was genuine. But, I was promised hard in the paint cory and this does look similar to hard in the paint cory but isn't hard in the paint cory.

 

I want Cory to fulfill his promises.

 

I don't hate any of this

[Zander?]

Pizza

Zander

Dice

Besie

Lenlo

BFG

Cory- because slacking

 

Nikon

 

Sooh

Tina

Shad

 

 

What about Nolder?

 

Give you give some reasons if even brief as to your reads?  I feel thats been lacking thus far this game and it alarms me.  Even some of your reasoning on Len who went from in regards to your reads "100% a Wolf" to Town are flimsy at best and so really are some of your reasons for clearing Cory and myself very early on and I see Cory has slipped down as well.....

[Zander?]

 

 

Now I read Pizza´s unvote post again and my question is: Do you unvote Lenlo because he is fighting back? Is that the reason?

Looked that way to me. Apparently Len would have stopped replying if he was really scum, according to whatever theory Pizza has.

  

 

Now I read Pizza´s unvote post again and my question is: Do you unvote Lenlo because he is fighting back? Is that the reason?

 

If you read that post, this question doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

There was a point where a scum lenlo would have walked away after fighting back, and he never did.

Okay so your reply here made me think twice about what I had replied to the same quote from Tina. Seems I understood it correctly. Initial thoughts were that it wasn't simply a "oh no he's stopped replying" thing. I'm taking that into consideration.

 

 

He's basically just saying the same thing as before here Besie imo.  What now is making you this into consideration differently then you did when you first made the original post?

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Pizza

Zander

Dice

Besie

Lenlo

BFG

Cory- because slacking

 

Nikon

 

Sooh

Tina

Shad

 

 

What about Nolder?

 

Give you give some reasons if even brief as to your reads?  I feel thats been lacking thus far this game and it alarms me.  Even some of your reasoning on Len who went from in regards to your reads "100% a Wolf" to Town are flimsy at best and so really are some of your reasons for clearing Cory and myself very early on and I see Cory has slipped down as well.....

 

 

Still talking to past Zander. You gotta signal me when you're in the present, alright?

 

Nolder, I have done zero work on. He was null before the Lenlo day, and I didn't do crap on the Lenlo day in terms of re-reading.

 

The reason I don't have a lean on him is because I haven't gotten around to it yet, in much the same way I kept intending to read NotBob's meta and never got around to it because of other priorities.

 

I don't have a lean on him at present, and I also didn't put him on the leans list because of raisins which were purely (and possibly scummily-sounding but still purely) coincidence.

 

I didn't even notice I didn't have him on my list when he made the puppy post. I had to read that puppy post again to even catch what he was saying.

 

I don't pay attention to all things at all times. It has to be on paper or it doesn't retain in my brain very well.

[Sooh]

*snip*

I don't pay attention to all things at all times. It has to be on paper or it doesn't retain in my brain very well.

 

My brain.

 

lol

[Zander?]

 

I believe this is genuine.

... I am inclined to feel the same way.

 

 

I completely agree with the time stamp thing you mentioned, Pizza. On mobile version of DM I can't see time stamps or post numbers (which is why I refer to page numbers when I reference back) but you've reminded me to actually check that when I reread in desktop view.

 

 

 

Im not saying Im necessarily disputing this but Id like you both to kind of explain why you feel it is please!!!

[Sooh]

 

 

I believe this is genuine.

... I am inclined to feel the same way.

 

 

I completely agree with the time stamp thing you mentioned, Pizza. On mobile version of DM I can't see time stamps or post numbers (which is why I refer to page numbers when I reference back) but you've reminded me to actually check that when I reread in desktop view.

 

 

 

Im not saying Im necessarily disputing this but Id like you both to kind of explain why you feel it is please!!!

 

Sometimes I wish you'd read a couple more posts to see if something more was posted before you ask questions.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Give you give some reasons if even brief as to your reads?  I feel thats been lacking thus far this game and it alarms me.  Even some of your reasoning on Len who went from in regards to your reads "100% a Wolf" to Town are flimsy at best

 

You haven't been paying very close attention, Zander.

 

You've been paying attention, but not very close attention.

 

Those town-leans have reasons that are at this point ancient. The posts which created those leans are in my notes which I posted. It would take some legwork for you to go and hunt down each of those posts, and I'm sure you don't want to do that. And if you did, your impression of them would be similar to your impression of my read on Lenlo, which is that most of those reads begin one way and stay that way, as if I am trying to create an impression rather than form one.

 

That's what it looks like, so I understand why you would have that impression. I'm self-aware. It looks similarly to that but it is not.

 

Besie is the one who has shot up in terms of villageriness, partly because I trust you completely and your meta on Besie is going to be better. And that's even after saying that I don't want to use other people's impressions of meta.

 

Cory, I have listed why he's dipping. And I gave a very specific and fully articulated reason why Lenlo reversed. And I also named at least some of the posts which give me my scum leans on Shad and Tina.

 

So yes, you're paying attention. Somewhat. And you're missing stuff, just like I am.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

 

I believe this is genuine.

... I am inclined to feel the same way.

 

 

I completely agree with the time stamp thing you mentioned, Pizza. On mobile version of DM I can't see time stamps or post numbers (which is why I refer to page numbers when I reference back) but you've reminded me to actually check that when I reread in desktop view.

 

 

 

Im not saying Im necessarily disputing this but Id like you both to kind of explain why you feel it is please!!!

 

Sometimes I wish you'd read a couple more posts to see if something more was posted before you ask questions.

 

 

I don't generally do LOL and nothing else posts, but LOL and nothing else.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I do exactly what Zander does at times. This game I've been mainly doing a read to catch up, and then responding to questions via re-read, because I know a lot of my questions get answered in the posts ahead.

 

But my first instinct is to respond to the stuff as I see it.

[Zander?]

I didn't put you on my leans list, Nolder.

 

That's what you were barking about. My apologies. That was off the cuff, not from my notes, since I haven't taken any since before the Lenlo exchange.

 

No detail, etc. Didn't even list you.

 

I took the players list and tried to give a lean on everyone, I must have deleted your name during that process without moving you elsewhere on the list.

 

I hope you'll forgive me for not buying this response like a fool.

 

 

 

I mentioned tone in my analysis of Pizza, and it makes sense now if the purpose of those posts was to give a reaction check and possibly rustle Lenlo. That makes the posts forced and that was the tone I was reading. 

 

hmmmmmm........

 

Pizza is still my top scum read. And Sooh is in my null-scum list. I can't help but feel like they could possibly be scum together.

 

Personally it feels like Sooh jumped at defending herself, and Pizza, at the opportunity that arose from Pizza's arguments.

 

 

 

I'm looking forward to see others opinion's on page 62-63.

 

 

 

 

 

I believe this is genuine.

 

Your scum read on me should be migrating, then. Winter is coming, and all that.

 

And this post didn't tell you that? Plus the next one?

 

I mentioned tone in my analysis of Pizza, and it makes sense now if the purpose of those posts was to give a reaction check and possibly rustle Lenlo. That makes the posts forced and that was the tone I was reading. 

 

In my head at least this says that you're moving out of my orange zone and towards the green, but I guess I need to spell it out anyway.

 

 

Well fwiw you both are now in....

 

[Sooh]

Sometimes when I read Zander's posts I just 

[Askthepizzaguy]

I hope you'll forgive me for not buying this response like a fool.

If your first concern is to never get fooled, your response will be to never trust anyone.

 

And that's fine. But you will also lynch a lot of townies that way.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Zander, I've shown you I can do anything at any time at any alignment.

 

Sure I can. But what do I actually do?

 

I do the things which are wise to do as scum, and I do not do the things which are unwise to do as scum.

 

I can play like I don't care, but rare is the case.

[Zander?]

Not every villager wants to solve the game today, in the same sort of way that I hate wasting time.

 

So I am not holding Shad to some standard that many villagers won't meet.

 

If you're a wolf today you want to give the appearance of solving but without making yourself likely to be the d1 lynch, or the n1 kill.

 

Shad is making friendly happy faces at a lot of people and not pushing his suspects very hard.

 

This is just a snippet. He's very reasonable and not making waves.

 

Zander wants a dead scum TODAY, he's not waiting until tomorrow.

 

Zander is not even a little bit afraid of my reprisal should I die today.

 

Lenlo understood that I'd probably shoot him if he told me to screw off and I died, didn't stop him.

 

There are two lynches in a row to avoid. If you want a dead scum today, you want to look for the players who are trying to avoid BOTH of them.

 

 

 

Both completely true.

[Zander?]

The above exchange with Sooh looks like we're wolf/wolf, for those tinfoiling that.

 

;)

 

It's not the case. Just so you know.

 

 

 

*snip*

I think it's possible.

 

However, I have scum-read you as town and I'm town in a long game, and I've given you a ton of rope when you were a wolf when I was town in another.

 

I need to not make a snap judgment of you.

 

If I can clear one of Shad or Tina, you then fall inside my top 2 scums. If either of them are a townie, that means pressure on you comes.

 

That's fine. I was just realizing that you're more likely to be town, so I was looking forward to finally having a town game together, but whatever happens happens. 

 

 

Half of me wants to believe Sooh here and Half of me absolutely can't

[Pralaya]

Vote Count:

 

Pizza (3): Lenlo, Zander, Cory

Nolder(1): Shad

Shad(1): Pizza

 

Not Voting: dice, nolder, Tina, sooh, Nikon, bfg, besie

 

With 12 players, 7 needed to lynch 

 

[Zander?]

 

Good morning! I´m here and I will put a little more time into the game this morning. I think I want to do an iso on a few people. I have read the whole thread but that doesn´t mean that I remember much. I started to take notes but that fell after page 15. lol 

 

Here are my initial thoughts:

 

First - who is voting who? It feels like there are few people voting and those who did unvoted. 

 

I couldn´t read everything in the back and forth between Lenlo and Pizza but I think I got the major parts (because they were stated again and again and again...) First to Lenlo - I did not agree with Pizza. I was the second vote on your train, before Pizza. Second - my thoughts about it now:

 

* my reason for voting Lenlo was that it felt like he was trying to accuse Dice without actually doing it. Like he didn´t dare to vote him but still wanted to make him look scummy. Someone asked me (Shad? Zander?) why that would make him mafia. I have seen that many time, where mafia don´t want to take responsibility for leading someones lynch or being afraid of definite statements. 

 

I think this was Pizza´s first reason for voting Lenlo too and in that we agree(d). But I didn´t like the way he went after Lenlo and said that everything Lenlo said was scummy. He was obviously tunnelling Lenlo. I´m not sure what I feel about his unvote because I don´t think I really understand the reason for it. Need to read it again.

 

I liked Lenlo´s post #812 and now I need to figure out if I want to unvote him or not. I´ll see as I re-read some stuff. 

 

 

Even though I have a problem with Zander´s amount of posting I think he looks really good. 

 

Cory - don´t know but haven´t seen anything scummy. I kind of liked some of his posts toward Pizza but they haven´t really been about this game but more a meta-talk about how to approach mafia. I see that he posted a new list while I´m writing this so I will check it out.

 

BFG - she is asking a lot of questions, which she does as both alignments. She posts a lot, which is a good sign since I know that she has been afraid of posting too much as mafia earlier. (This is from at least half a year ago so I don´t know how it is now.) I still don´t think I have seen any results of the answers she has been given. Yesterday she just ended with "I´ll wait and see what Tina says when she comes back". (Which seems to be built on Cory´s suspicioun of me.) Well, now I´m back so I hope that I could get some clear statements about everyone. 

 

Nikon - isn´t here.

 

Shad - he posted a lot but he got mixed up with Zander-Lenlo-Pizza in my head so I don´t really remember his thoughts.

 

Nolder - Is laying low. Answers when questioned. Nothing so far.

 

Besie - I see that many of you think she is town but I haven´t payed attention to her so far (sorry Besie). Will need to iso.

 

Sooh - didn´t get good vibes from her earlier. I think it was about Lenlo. She had a bad feeling about Lenlo, then wanted to clear him, then liked what I and other said about him and then... I don´t know what she has written after that. Need to iso as well.

 

Who did I forget? 

 

That's the very first thought on my mind whenever I am scum and come into a game thread after being away.

 

Because my priority then is to base my actions in the coming posts on the temperature of the thread, and also, make sure I'm not hard defending a scumbag who is about to die, and see who is an easy townie to lynch.

 

That thought is less likely to come from a townie. It will happen but not as often as it will from a scumbag.

 

That brainwave alone should push Tina to the top of a lot of people's suspect lists.

 

 

 

 

FWIW- Pizza if Im wrong on you.  I dont feel I am but IF i am, I promise you again I will go through all your stuff and act accordingly on your behalf.