[Advanced] Nightmare Before Christmas - Town Wins!

[Zander?]

Ah, the five Ds of Dodgeball, well done.

 

Anyway, back to Nolder (and I do have to go to a meeting in 15 :( )

 

Im pretty sure this or anything else from her ever happened.

[Zander?]

I'm kind of worried she's becoming an easy consolation target.

 

I feel like Snow is slipping through the cracks here. I just read over his posts again from a few pages back. His reason for scum reading you is so, so bad and hasn't developed one bit and suddenly he's all about lynching Tab too? That's sketchy.

 

Things that make me say hmmmmmmmm.............

 

 

 

Then again Tab has still done nothing to save herself. We still have a few hours yet and she is apparently trying to get caught up again so I'm willing at least to wait it out and see what she say. It's never a bad idea to get someone on record one last time in the event she does get lynched today

 

 

Interesting you say  this and she never shows........maybe some Maf QT advice?

[Zander?]

 

I'm kind of worried she's becoming an easy consolation target.

 

I feel like Snow is slipping through the cracks here. I just read over his posts again from a few pages back. His reason for scum reading you is so, so bad and hasn't developed one bit and suddenly he's all about lynching Tab too? That's sketchy.

 

Things that make me say hmmmmmmmm.............

 

 

 

Then again Tab has still done nothing to save herself. We still have a few hours yet and she is apparently trying to get caught up again so I'm willing at least to wait it out and see what she say. It's never a bad idea to get someone on record one last time in the event she does get lynched today

 

 

Interesting you say  this and she never shows........maybe some Maf QT advice?

 

 

 

ofc add to the fact she admitted she was around and watching when I called her out on it.

[Zander?]

Ok yeah - the difference is kind of alarming if you look at the two side by side. From Matrix she had about as many content laden posts in one Day then she's had for the entirety of this game so far but with none of the depth

 

 

I feel pretty good about lynching her after that review but I suggest we keep the wagon on the lower side to keep it from building too much before DL. I don't wanna see lame consolidation votes without reason.

 

Plus I want Snow to remember that I'm on to him ;)

 

 

Knowing what we now know about John Snow and the fact AJ wouldnt switch to Tab is a really bad look on him imo.

[Zander?]

Help me lynch Snow instead Shad?

 

 

I think this was the turning point for a John Snow lynch

 

 

 

 

 

So guys. We have an hour and a half or so. Do we wanna start wrapping this up cause atm Tab is in the lead, but has two very very close competing trains.

I'm about caught up and still debating where to drop my vote, but it's not going on Tab I don't think.

 

 

 

Why not Tab and who are you thinking then?

 

Without going into detail (and I may or may not later, depending on time), I'm perfectly null on Tab and find Nolder and Snow scummy, so I will be tying the trains. I just haven't decided which yet.

 

 

We have time and I'd like those details now please.

 

 

 

Like are neither of you at all bothered by the fact she's not even here defending herself, trying to prove she's town, making reads well basically doing anything?

 

 

Because that's starting to sketch me out.

No I agree with you and said as much earlier. She is probably getting lynched today but I still want others to weigh in first. We have like four people that aren't voting yet

 

If no one is going to lynch Snow then I will ensure its Tab

 

 

Can you show me WITH QUOTES your entire case on John Snow AJ....I'd really really like to see it laid out for me.

[Zander?]

 

 

Like are neither of you at all bothered by the fact she's not even here defending herself, trying to prove she's town, making reads well basically doing anything?

 

 

Because that's starting to sketch me out.

No I agree with you and said as much earlier. She is probably getting lynched today but I still want others to weigh in first. We have like four people that aren't voting yet

 

If no one is going to lynch Snow then I will ensure its Tab

 

 

Ok.

 

[v]John Snow[/v]

 

yolo

 

 

So after saying the reason you werent following AJ cause he was sketching you out a bit you go ahead and follow his start to lynch John Snow.

 

 

This is hard. Looks like nolder isnt getting lynched so I have to choose between Snow and Tab. On one hand, I think Tab is scummier than JS. On the other hand my biggest scum read Nolder is voting Tab...

 

 

Decisions decisions...

 

 

I would think YOU of all people know that bussing is a legitimate Scum move don't you Len?

[Zander?]

Right now I'm pretty meh about both Snow and Tabor, I don't think skimming Nolder ISO is fair to him, there's a fair bit I'm missing.

 

The two concerns with Snow is the disconnect between his opening and actual posting - which could just be due to finals and recently more concerning is his reasons for voting Zander.

 

Tabor I'm pretty null on this game, but I ISO'd her in Diablo, there were a few none content posts for which she got voted, but she came back with a 'risky' reads list and interacted with people, this game she feels less involved.

 

I don't like Snow', Tabor and Nolder all being missing and don't know what to make of Tabor and Snow not voting to self pres

 

Maybe Im reading this my own bias eyes but I feel like the reasoning you give behind John and Tab would make you more inclined to vote Tab but you voted John instead..

[Nolder]

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Shad[/v]

 

re: Die Hard

 

If you think that's bad, I've never even seen Batman.

 

Which one...?

 

 

How about you Nol? Do you need another 20 pages to put on your makeup before you join the big kids, or we going to kick this off?

 

I'm feeling slow. Haven't played in a couple months so I'll let others take the lead for the time being.

 

 

For the time being is still extending pretty long here Nol.

14

 

[Zander?]

[unvote]

 

Anyone else care to make a last minute stand?

 

Did Shad remove his vote here 4 min out because he knew a) John was gonna flip town and b) didnt want to look bad?

 

 

 

Tab's level of uninvolvement is pretty massive.  She didn't even follow up with her Nolder thoughts.

:/

 

Pretty much this though

 

 

Says 2 mins before DL by BFG who is at the time currently voting John....

 

 

Zander when did you push Tabor? What stage of the game?

 

Pretty horrible question to be asking 1 min before DL regardless of the fact she voted a later confirmed Town.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Shad[/v]

 

re: Die Hard

 

If you think that's bad, I've never even seen Batman.

 

Which one...?

 

 

How about you Nol? Do you need another 20 pages to put on your makeup before you join the big kids, or we going to kick this off?

 

I'm feeling slow. Haven't played in a couple months so I'll let others take the lead for the time being.

 

 

For the time being is still extending pretty long here Nol.

14

 

 

wtf.

[Nolder]

 

 

AJ

Shad

 

NotBob

Pizza

BFG

 

Jon Snow

Taborline

Dice

 

Thane

 

Zander

Lenlo

 

Let's start at the top (note each category is in no order) which brings us to AJ. He's seemed pretty open about everything so far. From when he's going to be around to whether he agrees or disagrees. If there's one point against him I'd say that he's being a bit too friendly to everyone and I'd like to see some teeth but other than that I feel good about him.

 

Shad occupies the sport Alanna previously did. I liked Alanna's willingness to chart how she felt about people early without being asked and even though she wasn't here too much she did try to move the game along. Since Shad's gotten here he's taken the time to reread the thread and engage as much as possible. It may surprise people but imo a mafia replacing in often wont bother because they think they can get away with not knowing what's going on, at least for awhile. Especially towards end of deadline like Shad replaced into. So points in his favor.

 

Notbob hasn't hit any of my tells for him yet. Which isn't hard because he hasn't said too much but when he has talked imo it made sense. Not ready to put him in the blue pile yet but I have no problem leaning that way with him this early.

 

Nomi...well I'll be honest here I might have played with him maybe once on another site (maybe?) but this may as well be my first time playing with him so I don't have any meta to look back on here. We're in the same boat in that regard. My thought is that he's being taken in by his own narrative about what I'd do in one game compared to what I'd do in another game etc etc. Truth is people act different from game to game not just role to role. For example I think my last 3 or 4 games prior to this I got mafia all in a row which is why I took a few months break from mafia I was just getting exhausted playing the same role/team over and over. I have no doubt that my last game as mafia wasn't as good a performance as the first game. Anyway I'm taking a long time to simply say I think he's overestimating his ability to understand the way I act from game to game and I think a lot of people do this with everyone to some degree. THAT SAID, I do like that he came out guns blasting and tried to make something happen. I put him leaning town because of that but he's not blue because I'm worried about my ability to read him in the first place. Unlike some people I'd rather hedge my bets on people I've never played with before than think I'm reading them right on D1 of our first game together. :P

 

BFG stepped up from being obscure (to me at least) to the front of the game when called on. I asked her a series of questions and imo she had some pretty good answers for them. From that exchange alone I put her leaning town.

 

Ok now we're in the nulls. Jon Snow I just don't feel has said anything of note. He hasn't been really aggressive but he has been around so it's not like he's been missing. Dunno what it is I just don't have any impressions of him one way or the other yet.

 

Taborline has had almost no game related posts. Would lynch purely for activity reasons.

 

Dice I think is more my fault. I know he's said stuff and engaged and put opinions out there and whatnot but whenever I see his posts I just kind of gloss over them. Dunno why. The guy isn't boring or anything. I think depending on how EOD1 and N1 goes I'll need to buckle down and force myself to just do a Dice read but I don't think anyone has put him up as a lynch so there's no need to do it right now.

 

Thane...well there's not much to say. He hasn't said much and promised to be around more on D2. I put him leaning scum for one reason. I didn't like how when Nomi voted me the first time he jumped to my defense and called it wolfy (post #103). Just strikes me as extremely early to call out a bad vote. Or even a good vote. Any vote. I mean Nomi could have just been joke voting you know? I don't it just struck me as an attempt to buy early credit. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I didn't like it. Hopefully Thane can do some more on D2 to clear his name. Or not, I'd be willing to lynch him if anyone else is up for it.

 

Ok now we come to the scum. It's both funny and unfortunate that they both teamed up to attack me tonight. I obviously already suspect Lenlo but I had planned on doing a case on Xander. Now it's just going to make me look petty and OMGUSy because they went on the offensive first. Such is life though. I mean what can I do about it? It's weird because I don't think Xander knew I was going to go after him I think he just perceived me as an easy target and joined his teammate in finishing what Nomi started. I'll be making posts for each of them separately before deadline.

 

 

 

How do you feel about this now?  Any changes and if so why?  And I think I already mentioned it but your reasoning behind your Scum reads is horribad.

 

A couple shifts maybe.

I'd rather wait for the flip to really think about it.

[Zander?]

Tab may be an important role for the scum team to lose hence it didnt happen.

 

 

I dont think anyone touched on this....i find that in itself interesting.

 

 

I'm kind of worried she's becoming an easy consolation target.

 

I feel like Snow is slipping through the cracks here. I just read over his posts again from a few pages back. His reason for scum reading you is so, so bad and hasn't developed one bit and suddenly he's all about lynching Tab too? That's sketchy.

 

Care to repeat that case again smokey?

 

 

 

lololololololol

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

NotBob you lynching Tab tomorrow?

 

You town?

 

 

YES

 

 

If you were the Vig, who would you shoot and why?

 

 

 

Darthe,,,,

 

but seriously Nolder prolly as hes my 2nd best scum read.

 

 

 

i may ask for a do over here NotBob after my re read.....

[Lenlo]

 

This is hard. Looks like nolder isnt getting lynched so I have to choose between Snow and Tab. On one hand, I think Tab is scummier than JS. On the other hand my biggest scum read Nolder is voting Tab...

 

 

Decisions decisions...

 

 

I would think YOU of all people know that bussing is a legitimate Scum move don't you Len?

 

Yeah but typically you dont bus a teammate to the point of getting them lynched on D1. Even with you and me, the hardest bussing ive ever seen, we managed to put it off till D3.

 

Plus even if Tab flipped scum with Nolder on her train, that wouldnt really clear him imo cause he didnt do all that much work. He just kinda... flopped onto her train. 

[Lenlo]

 

 

 

AJ

Shad

 

NotBob

Pizza

BFG

 

Jon Snow

Taborline

Dice

 

Thane

 

Zander

Lenlo

 

Let's start at the top (note each category is in no order) which brings us to AJ. He's seemed pretty open about everything so far. From when he's going to be around to whether he agrees or disagrees. If there's one point against him I'd say that he's being a bit too friendly to everyone and I'd like to see some teeth but other than that I feel good about him.

 

Shad occupies the sport Alanna previously did. I liked Alanna's willingness to chart how she felt about people early without being asked and even though she wasn't here too much she did try to move the game along. Since Shad's gotten here he's taken the time to reread the thread and engage as much as possible. It may surprise people but imo a mafia replacing in often wont bother because they think they can get away with not knowing what's going on, at least for awhile. Especially towards end of deadline like Shad replaced into. So points in his favor.

 

Notbob hasn't hit any of my tells for him yet. Which isn't hard because he hasn't said too much but when he has talked imo it made sense. Not ready to put him in the blue pile yet but I have no problem leaning that way with him this early.

 

Nomi...well I'll be honest here I might have played with him maybe once on another site (maybe?) but this may as well be my first time playing with him so I don't have any meta to look back on here. We're in the same boat in that regard. My thought is that he's being taken in by his own narrative about what I'd do in one game compared to what I'd do in another game etc etc. Truth is people act different from game to game not just role to role. For example I think my last 3 or 4 games prior to this I got mafia all in a row which is why I took a few months break from mafia I was just getting exhausted playing the same role/team over and over. I have no doubt that my last game as mafia wasn't as good a performance as the first game. Anyway I'm taking a long time to simply say I think he's overestimating his ability to understand the way I act from game to game and I think a lot of people do this with everyone to some degree. THAT SAID, I do like that he came out guns blasting and tried to make something happen. I put him leaning town because of that but he's not blue because I'm worried about my ability to read him in the first place. Unlike some people I'd rather hedge my bets on people I've never played with before than think I'm reading them right on D1 of our first game together. :P

 

BFG stepped up from being obscure (to me at least) to the front of the game when called on. I asked her a series of questions and imo she had some pretty good answers for them. From that exchange alone I put her leaning town.

 

Ok now we're in the nulls. Jon Snow I just don't feel has said anything of note. He hasn't been really aggressive but he has been around so it's not like he's been missing. Dunno what it is I just don't have any impressions of him one way or the other yet.

 

Taborline has had almost no game related posts. Would lynch purely for activity reasons.

 

Dice I think is more my fault. I know he's said stuff and engaged and put opinions out there and whatnot but whenever I see his posts I just kind of gloss over them. Dunno why. The guy isn't boring or anything. I think depending on how EOD1 and N1 goes I'll need to buckle down and force myself to just do a Dice read but I don't think anyone has put him up as a lynch so there's no need to do it right now.

 

Thane...well there's not much to say. He hasn't said much and promised to be around more on D2. I put him leaning scum for one reason. I didn't like how when Nomi voted me the first time he jumped to my defense and called it wolfy (post #103). Just strikes me as extremely early to call out a bad vote. Or even a good vote. Any vote. I mean Nomi could have just been joke voting you know? I don't it just struck me as an attempt to buy early credit. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I didn't like it. Hopefully Thane can do some more on D2 to clear his name. Or not, I'd be willing to lynch him if anyone else is up for it.

 

Ok now we come to the scum. It's both funny and unfortunate that they both teamed up to attack me tonight. I obviously already suspect Lenlo but I had planned on doing a case on Xander. Now it's just going to make me look petty and OMGUSy because they went on the offensive first. Such is life though. I mean what can I do about it? It's weird because I don't think Xander knew I was going to go after him I think he just perceived me as an easy target and joined his teammate in finishing what Nomi started. I'll be making posts for each of them separately before deadline.

 

 

 

How do you feel about this now?  Any changes and if so why?  And I think I already mentioned it but your reasoning behind your Scum reads is horribad.

 

A couple shifts maybe.

I'd rather wait for the flip to really think about it.

 

Alright ill remember this. After the flip for N1 you will give us a list with reasons. No avoiding it. I will not let you.

[Zander?]

 

 

This is hard. Looks like nolder isnt getting lynched so I have to choose between Snow and Tab. On one hand, I think Tab is scummier than JS. On the other hand my biggest scum read Nolder is voting Tab...

 

 

Decisions decisions...

 

 

I would think YOU of all people know that bussing is a legitimate Scum move don't you Len?

 

Yeah but typically you dont bus a teammate to the point of getting them lynched on D1. Even with you and me, the hardest bussing ive ever seen, we managed to put it off till D3.

 

Plus even if Tab flipped scum with Nolder on her train, that wouldnt really clear him imo cause he didnt do all that much work. He just kinda... flopped onto her train. 

 

 

Ya but the circumstances are much different here.  I was just pointing it out.  It doesn't matter if it clears him or not.  The main objective is to just lunch wolves. 

[Lenlo]

Your right. It was a poor decision, but its one I made.

 

Ill make it up to you by lynching Tab and Nolder on days 2 and 3, that good with you? Then we can find the last wolf and go get some dinner for a job well done.

[Zander?]

Your right. It was a poor decision, but its one I made.

 

Ill make it up to you by lynching Tab and Nolder on days 2 and 3, that good with you? Then we can find the last wolf and go get some dinner for a job well done.

 

 

Like you basically said to Nolder....I'll be holding you to this.

[Lenlo]

 

Your right. It was a poor decision, but its one I made.

 

Ill make it up to you by lynching Tab and Nolder on days 2 and 3, that good with you? Then we can find the last wolf and go get some dinner for a job well done.

 

 

Like you basically said to Nolder....I'll be holding you to this.

 

Of course ill pay, what man doesnt on the first date? :P

[Zander?]

 

 

Your right. It was a poor decision, but its one I made.

 

Ill make it up to you by lynching Tab and Nolder on days 2 and 3, that good with you? Then we can find the last wolf and go get some dinner for a job well done.

 

 

Like you basically said to Nolder....I'll be holding you to this.

 

Of course ill pay, what man doesnt on the first date? :P

 

 

 

That wasnt the exact part I meant but hey....free dinner is free dinner imo. lololololololol

[Shad_]

Shad: (Note, I found Laine townish as well before the replacement, but i find it more useful to read Shad because it's stronger)

 

There were little posts here and there which struck me as townie thinking, but I was sold by the reasons I laid out in post 716

Shad is currently my top town read. But I would like Shad to please clarify for me everything I've highlighted in purple, because I do not know where you're getting some of your town reads.

 

Called John Snow town 513

Wants to redirect my attention to Dice's D1 of Diablo vs this game. 558

Observation 561

Leans strong town on Lenlo 568

Leans town on Zander 581

Doesn't like Nolder or NotBob's reactions to my sus 600

Never lynching lenlo 605

"I definitely think that a town in Pizza's position though, in the absence of any meta, would find it pretty suspect that you basically settled on agreeing to disagree rather than prodding Pizza further, and once he clarified (without being asked) that this was the root of his concern, I felt better about him." 623 leans town on me, gives a good thought process reason. Also gives reason to be concerned about Notbob: "Basically, I don't expect town!NotBob to prod people whose actions he finds suspicious. I expect him to somewhat passively take note of them and vote accordingly. Now I have the above quote chain to chew on, and it's a little bit harder to swallow. Scum require deeper motivation to "backpedal" than to make an opening push, and the grounds for interpreting Pizza's actions at face value thin out. Why do you think Pizza backpedaled in this instance?" Good and not superficial points being made.

Calls BFG obvious town 642 (I do want to know why)

651 example shows depth of thought

Skirts the issue of Dice a little bit 677

682 doesn't say why Dice is probably town

714 gives Thane a town read, I'd like to know why

716 fully explains town read on Shad

718 thinks Nolder is scum but disagrees with someone as to why

Shad discounts me/Andrej w/w I'm not sure I follow why

740 is a good point, albeit one I was making already explicitly

763 point

768 sees Zander as possibly scum

776 I like these kind of questions

781 prioritizes Taborline, then Zander, doesn't see them w/w

793 leans list

895 leans town on Dice

903 good observation vs Nolder

928 tries to lynch Taborline

962 unvotes, probably for reactions. I don't see a scum doing this. It's dangerous and leads to hard questions.

 

 

 

Calls BFG obvious town 642 (I do want to know why)

 

I think BFG and I tend to process information the same way, and when I see her asking a lot of questions and challenging statements that don't add up in her head, I immediately jump to town. It's a behavior that I expect her to struggle with as scum, and when I see her wheeling on through like she's trying to get a grasp on people, I pretty readily accept it as town. The only time I saw her as scum, we were team mates under unusual circumstances (and I was modestly pissed at her for a subtle reference to another game which proved totally harmless in the end), but I remember thinking at the time that she was clearly not matching up to her town behavior. (Scum!Cory actually summarized it pretty well in that game.) There's a game in White Tower--British Monarchy maybe?--that I would look hard at if we are both alive late in the game, but I rather doubt we will be.

 

Skirts the issue of Dice a little bit 677

682 doesn't say why Dice is probably town

 

If I could word it better I would. Reading Dice is hard to articulate but I think I've gotten fairly good at it. The one time I saw him as scum I read him correctly until he started discussing rule/mechanic-related things. I gave him a bad pass at that point. BFG put it better than I can.

 

714 gives Thane a town read, I'd like to know why

 

I think I explained this in part later. Let me see if I can find it.

 

 

Thane...well there's not much to say. He hasn't said much and promised to be around more on D2. I put him leaning scum for one reason. I didn't like how when Nomi voted me the first time he jumped to my defense and called it wolfy (post #103). Just strikes me as extremely early to call out a bad vote. Or even a good vote. Any vote. I mean Nomi could have just been joke voting you know? I don't it just struck me as an attempt to buy early credit. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I didn't like it. Hopefully Thane can do some more on D2 to clear his name. Or not, I'd be willing to lynch him if anyone else is up for it.

Thane did explain himself though, and it was in line with his town mentality. I've seen town!Thane make obscure or dishonest statements as town in order to test people/get a discussion rolling many times. You might think that the way he does it is, eh, a little weird, but it's normal town!Thane behavior.

 

It's not all that much to go on, and I wouldn't call him a strong town read. I do think he's someone I can afford to misread early because as a wolf he tends to get significantly scummier as a game progresses. He's a very easy read over time, but I suppose we won't benefit from that in this game.

 

Shad discounts me/Andrej w/w I'm not sure I follow why

 

AJ had said "From what I can gather she has a town read on Pizza and Dice which I think are sort of obvious observations."

 

A wolf would think town!Pizza is extremely obvious right now. A town might think town!Pizza is extremely obvious right now. I don't think a scum mate is nearly as likely to make this observation. It's ballsy, in the very least, to treat your team mate like the whole villa should know they're town. I think it's a statement far more likely to come from w/v or v/v.

 

740 is a good point, albeit one I was making already explicitly

 

o_O link me. Or is this the wrong post number?

[Zander?]

@Len just throw this out there for me.  Who do you think is the BEST candidate for Deep Wolf?

 

Actually I'd like everyone to weigh in on this.

[Shad_]

 

[unvote]

 

Anyone else care to make a last minute stand?

 

Did Shad remove his vote here 4 min out because he knew a) John was gonna flip town and b) didnt want to look bad?

 

Curious what people have to say about this.

[Shad_]

@Len just throw this out there for me.  Who do you think is the BEST candidate for Deep Wolf?

 

Actually I'd like everyone to weigh in on this.

AJ

[Zander?]

 

 

[unvote]

 

Anyone else care to make a last minute stand?

 

Did Shad remove his vote here 4 min out because he knew a) John was gonna flip town and b) didnt want to look bad?

 

Curious what people have to say about this.

 

 

But not curious/bothered/intrigued as to why I did?