Diablo the mafia game!

[Clovdyx]

So here's the post I've been dreading....

 

[deep breath]

 

As I looked back at the Lenlo mislynch and considered the conviction and tenacity with which I pursued a Bender lynch I was left with one burning question; what went wrong? I felt like I raised good points about Zander in particular. I felt like - in a vacuum - my case was WAY more solid than anything else presented. And as I look back on the success I have on other sites I wonder why I can't duplicate that success here. Why can't I get people to follow my logic? And I realize it isn't me. It's the player base. People here clear their friends and people they like for questionable to no reason. I mean, I love Zander to bits. But this is a game. And he is just as likely to rand scum as any of my other friends and people that I like. In the mean time, I watch Lenlo get pounded into the dirt over and over again. I will grant you that we have been lucky he has randed scum for some of them. But honestly, he was going to get pounded regardless of alignment as he was here. And for whatever reason, people tinfoil on me A LOT more here than anywhere else despite the fact I seldom rand wolf anymore. So this means it must be a reputation thing. And if it's a reputation thing? I can never shed that. So that made me come to the realization that I really just can't play mafia here anymore. But then as I thought about it further I realized that if I don't play mafia here I really have nothing to add to this board so quite honestly I'll just stop coming to this site entirely.

 

I guess this is a long winded way of me saying that I'm retiring from DM mafia. And that I won't likely be on this site very often as a result. So I hope many of you will come visit mafiauniverse.net [soon to be mafiauniverse.com]. Because... this is my goodbye.

 

I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible (that probably won't sound very nice): 

 

I don't care about you, or anybody else here, in the context of this game.  I don't particularly ENJOY lynching my friends, but I'm willing to do it.  Sometimes, people rand mafia and if I'm town, it's my job to lynch them.  When I rand mafia, I do my best to lynch the people I can, even if it means lynching someone I'm friends with.  God knows I've lynched Sooh and Hallia enough - I think you would agree that I don't hate them (though they might feel differently when it comes to the game).

 

I like to think I'm reasonable enough that I will acknowledge a good point, even when it is against somebody I'm reading a certain way, or I feel a certain way about.  I pointed out something that Shad said about Zander just a couple pages ago.  Meanwhile, I refuted a point of yours that I disagreed with, and I explained why I felt that way (why it's not a slip).  AFAICT you haven't addressed why my opinion is wrong - you just keep hitting me over the head with "lolnope you're wrong."  If you want to have a reasonable discussion about it, that's fine, let's play the game.  If you're just going to ask me to put blind faith in you being right and me being wrong, it's not going to happen.  I'd say I'm sorry if you feel it's because I don't like you or I don't appreciate you or something, but I'm not; Cory is like a goddamn brother to me and I very rarely sheep him on things we disagree with.  Instead, we try to work them out to see which one of us is wrong.

 

Obviously, I'm just speaking from my perspective.  I'm not going to pretend to be able to answer for anybody else.

[Shad_]

Does this mean I get to run my first Basic one game sooner? 

 

Honestly the fact that you threw that out in the middle of the game is going to make ~every town in here wonder if it has an agenda.  You know that.  Why not wait?

[BFG]

And more to the point why is that your conclusion on why Lenlo got lynched, why aren't you considering which votes on Lenlo had to come from mafia, I know you've brought up points on Zander, but why not go through the EOD and look at which votes swung the lynch that way?

 

What's your opinion on Tress you were questioning her vote EOD yesterday, yet seem to be defending her now?

[Clovdyx]

 

It was a tongue in cheek way of saying I'm backing off temporarily :/ I mean for as much as I'm around I can ramp up to full BFG if you want, but last time that happened I think I made Hallia cry (although fair do's Hallia shot me soon after) and it's not pretty or elegant.

 

 

Don't do me any favors.  You know perfectly well how I'm going to respond to getting pushed, and it's not going to be tears 

 

On a side note, I think there's a very good chance you get your wish this game.  Don't say I didn't warn you

[Yates]

Why say this now?

Why did Kobe announce mid season?

[Clovdyx]

 

Why say this now?

Why did Kobe announce mid season?

 

 

Somehow I don't think she's going to get that reference.  She's a NE sports fan, not LA.  

[Yates]

And more to the point why is that your conclusion on why Lenlo got lynched, why aren't you considering which votes on Lenlo had to come from mafia, I know you've brought up points on Zander, but why not go through the EOD and look at which votes swung the lynch that way?

I did already. In a post to you. Bender and Clov. Those are 2/3 scum.

[Yates]

What's your opinion on Tress you were questioning her vote EOD yesterday, yet seem to be defending her now?

I'm not defending Tress? I just know she isn't the right vote today.

[Yates]

Does this mean I get to run my first Basic one game sooner? 

Yup.

 

Honestly the fact that you threw that out in the middle of the game is going to make ~every town in here wonder if it has an agenda.

Yup. Maybe I do? But it's still true.

[Shad_]

Anyway [unvote] Tress showed up and I wasn't at all bothered by her content, read honest to me at first glance.  I'll look at it again tomorrow.

 

Scum between Clov/Yates/Zander or we've already lost, and I wouldn't rule out any two of them though Clov and Yates are putting on an epic show of distancing if they're partners.  It's stuff for me to think about over the weekend.  I'm going to be busy a lot tomorrow but will hopefully be free Sunday.

 

If DL was 10am tomorrow like I initially thought I would be willing to test Zander, but I'm glad we have more time.  Besie, do address my last question at you when you get on.

[BFG]

 

 

These were my notes from during the night, which I will have to re-evaluate a bit in the light of AJ not being Seer:

 

Shad, Bender, Yates.

 

I had Bender in my dark green yesterday, mainly from feeling good about Besie’s confidence, but I’m wondering.

 

The conversation between Shad and Bender on pages 10/11 looks staged. Shad doesn’t seem to be giving the same scrutiny in his posts this time around, but explains that away early saying that last time he said too much, so now he’s going to be more cautious.

 

Besie’s coming in and saying Shad/Sooh is town struck me as odd. As a new player, I would imagine she was told to say this by Zander, as would a new player be familiar with Seer cover? (I wasn’t, though I admit I am more oblivious than most, but others needed it pointed out too). Why would Zander tell Besie to say it, and not say it himself? This, coupled with Shad’s change in behaviour and cover for his change in behaviour, stands out.

 

Plus, there’s Shad’s going for Lenlo earlier than others.

 

But Sooh/Shad's coming up as Tress' peek makes me feel bad about her as well - having two slots claim the same peek is making my head hurt.

what and why will you need to evaluate? Can you rephrase your first sentence I don't really understand what you mean?

 

 

Re-evaluate as I had done all of this only working from Lenlo's flip.

 

Which first sentence, before the list of suspects or after?

 

Before, it reads like you were expecting AJ to flip seer, yet that wasn't apparently reflected in your reads list yesterday

[Clovdyx]

 

And more to the point why is that your conclusion on why Lenlo got lynched, why aren't you considering which votes on Lenlo had to come from mafia, I know you've brought up points on Zander, but why not go through the EOD and look at which votes swung the lynch that way?

I did already. In a post to you. Bender and Clov. Those are 2/3 scum.

 

 

Well, I know you're wrong about one.  I think you're wrong about two.  But I'll entertain the theory anyways.

 

Am I scum because I voted Lenlo to save Bender, or am I scum with Bender and I just happened to vote Lenlo?  Basically, pretend my vote isn't there at all.  How strongly do you feel about me?

[Yates]

I don't care about you, or anybody else here, in the context of this game.  

LOL - don't worry about it. It's not your fault you randed scum.

 

One minor criticism is that you need to make your defenses of your scum buddies less obvious. I am ALWAYS lynching you tomorrow. 100%. After Bender flips scum.

[Clovdyx]

 

I don't care about you, or anybody else here, in the context of this game.  

LOL - don't worry about it. It's not your fault you randed scum.

 

One minor criticism is that you need to make your defenses of your scum buddies less obvious. I am ALWAYS lynching you tomorrow. 100%. After Bender flips scum.

 

 

I didn't rand scum.  And honestly, at this point, I'm hoping you didn't either just so I can crucify you over this literally every time I see you.  But that's besides the point.

 

You can try to lynch me.  You're probably not terribly surprised to know I'm not very afraid.

[Yates]

Basically, pretend my vote isn't there at all.  How strongly do you feel about me?

Easy, I think you are scum for reasons outside of your votes.

 

Because I have to go to bed? I'm going to keep this short, insulting, and provocative:

 

I think your "reads" on me [especially Day 1], your opinion on Bessie, and your defense of Zander are a lot like AC's tits. They're sure a lot of fun to look at. But there's not much real there. Just saying...

[BFG]

 

It was a tongue in cheek way of saying I'm backing off temporarily :/ I mean for as much as I'm around I can ramp up to full BFG if you want, but last time that happened I think I made Hallia cry (although fair do's Hallia shot me soon after) and it's not pretty or elegant.

 

Don't do me any favors.  You know perfectly well how I'm going to respond to getting pushed, and it's not going to be tears 

 

On a side note, I think there's a very good chance you get your wish this game.  Don't say I didn't warn you

 

Honestly I'm not

 

Either you're town or mafia, either way if I go at you today I won't have time to do anything else and either I'm right and there are two more mafia to find, or I'm wrong in which case it's a waste of time.

 

You sound more involved from what I've read, but I have serious problems with the timing of it at this point.

[Clovdyx]

 

Basically, pretend my vote isn't there at all.  How strongly do you feel about me?

Easy, I think you are scum for reasons outside of your votes.

 

Because I have to go to bed? I'm going to keep this short, insulting, and provocative:

 

I think your "reads" on me [especially Day 1], your opinion on Bessie, and your defense of Zander are a lot like AC's tits. They're sure a lot of fun to look at. But there's not much real there. Just saying...

 

 

Well, at least you said one thing that made sense logically tonight.  You're still wrong, but now I don't get to crush you like if you had said it stemmed from my vote.

[BFG]

 

And more to the point why is that your conclusion on why Lenlo got lynched, why aren't you considering which votes on Lenlo had to come from mafia, I know you've brought up points on Zander, but why not go through the EOD and look at which votes swung the lynch that way?

I did already. In a post to you. Bender and Clov. Those are 2/3 scum.

 

I know your reads, I want to know why? I don't understand literally anything about your American football (?) discussion with Clov and I'm not looking it up to get the reference. And there are several pages between where I've read and this that I'm reading through at the moment, so anything in there I've either skimmed or missed. At the moment a lot of your case seems to centre around their position regards to you, yet I don't have a strong read on you, so those points don't mean a lot since I have to assume you're town to agree with them. So what else do you have?

[Clovdyx]

 

 

It was a tongue in cheek way of saying I'm backing off temporarily :/ I mean for as much as I'm around I can ramp up to full BFG if you want, but last time that happened I think I made Hallia cry (although fair do's Hallia shot me soon after) and it's not pretty or elegant.

 

Don't do me any favors.  You know perfectly well how I'm going to respond to getting pushed, and it's not going to be tears 

 

On a side note, I think there's a very good chance you get your wish this game.  Don't say I didn't warn you

 

Honestly I'm not

 

Either you're town or mafia, either way if I go at you today I won't have time to do anything else and either I'm right and there are two more mafia to find, or I'm wrong in which case it's a waste of time.

 

You sound more involved from what I've read, but I have serious problems with the timing of it at this point.

 

 

I guess based on that, I have to say you ARE wrong.  But I'd rather you actually address the points that concern you than not.  I could use an intelligence conversation tonight.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

And more to the point why is that your conclusion on why Lenlo got lynched, why aren't you considering which votes on Lenlo had to come from mafia, I know you've brought up points on Zander, but why not go through the EOD and look at which votes swung the lynch that way?

I did already. In a post to you. Bender and Clov. Those are 2/3 scum.

 

I know your reads, I want to know why? I don't understand literally anything about your American football (?) discussion with Clov and I'm not looking it up to get the reference. And there are several pages between where I've read and this that I'm reading through at the moment, so anything in there I've either skimmed or missed. At the moment a lot of your case seems to centre around their position regards to you, yet I don't have a strong read on you, so those points don't mean a lot since I have to assume you're town to agree with them. So what else do you have?

 

 

I'm going to break my own rule of not answering for other people.  I think Yates will be happy to spot check me if I'm wrong.

 

 

Early on D1, Lenlo asked what I thought of Yates.  I said I would lynch him right then if I had to, in order to save Bender.  However, I would be doing it with the expectation of Yates flipping town at that point, based on the rand.  

 

The football analogy was Yates's attempt to get me to say that I think he's better than Zander (almost everybody would agree the player I associated with Yates is better than the one I associated with Zander) .  If I think that, why am I willing to sacrifice him in order to save Zander?  His theory is I would only do that if I'm scummates with Zander, because obviously I would want the best players around if I'm town.

[Yates]

I know your reads, I want to know why?

You need me to restate why I know Bender is scum? I'm pretty sure I have a summary post from Day 1 but I can tack on a bunch of stuff from today including his obvious SHC "slip" that Clov is inexplicably claiming is more likely to come from Town and the fact Zander totally forgot that he had to drop his fake push on me at the end of the day yesterday to get Lenlo lynched.

 

Again; ask Zander why I'm scum. The more people that do it the better.

[Yates]

I think Yates will be happy to spot check me if I'm wrong.

That's the most minor point, tbh. It was really just a fact check.

 

Okay. So both you and I know that as cop I pretty much never check Bender N1 because I can read Zander. But let's say for the sake of argument that I went full noob and dug in my heels and checked him anyway and he cam back red. That's pretty much how confident I am in his scum flip.

 

So now let's look at how you have treated Bessie and Zander. From my perspective; do you see why I would be CRAZY suspicious of you? And then you include NB in your scum poe when he was willing to "just wing it" yesterday to vote for "scum" Bender. We both know that's not what a bus looks like. Not when the votes were that close.

 

So let's say I finally put my full case out there and Bender gets lynched and flips scum and I get killed tonight. Why should Town ever leave you alive tomorrow? Because I promise you that if anyone else is killed and you and I are both alive? I'm calling for a thunderdome.

[BFG]

 

 

 

It was a tongue in cheek way of saying I'm backing off temporarily :/ I mean for as much as I'm around I can ramp up to full BFG if you want, but last time that happened I think I made Hallia cry (although fair do's Hallia shot me soon after) and it's not pretty or elegant.

 

Don't do me any favors.  You know perfectly well how I'm going to respond to getting pushed, and it's not going to be tears 

 

On a side note, I think there's a very good chance you get your wish this game.  Don't say I didn't warn you

 

Honestly I'm not

 

Either you're town or mafia, either way if I go at you today I won't have time to do anything else and either I'm right and there are two more mafia to find, or I'm wrong in which case it's a waste of time.

 

You sound more involved from what I've read, but I have serious problems with the timing of it at this point.

 

 

I guess based on that, I have to say you ARE wrong.  But I'd rather you actually address the points that concern you than not.  I could use an intelligence conversation tonight.

 

Because I can't raise 'points', I can't point to quotes and say this reads wrong. This is the complete opposite of last game where there were posts I didn't like, but when read as a whole your approach was obviously town. This game I didn't feel you were invested Day 1, I didn't feel you cared about solving.

 

If I had to point to specific posts, Your post to AJ about 'something' that was 'off' reminded me a little of a couple of your posts to me in Ho when you were trying to rustle me. Your read on me when you said I was basically town, but you weren't likely to push me for my activity felt weird (undefineable reason). but both are probably conf bias more than anything.

 

Y'all know the drill FEO Clov only

 

 

Problem with this was that even if you were less than enthused about playing, you still want to win and I think that would override pretty much everything else

 

 

 

At this stage I want to see where you go and who you push and why

[Clovdyx]

Yates, you literally have to be stupid if you think town cares more about people's fake peeks than mafia.  Like, there is not a remotely genuine argument to the contrary.  Because - again - SCUM SUBMITS A KILL, AND THEY USUALLY DO IT ON SOMEBODY THEY THINK IS THE COP.  

 

Now, if you want to claim that Zander knew perfectly well AJ fakepeeked BFG, killed her, and then pretended not to know...that's one thing.  But someone GENUINELY not knowing is FAR more likely to come from town.  And if you disagree with me, it's a good thing you're leaving, because you clearly don't understand how the hell to play this game.

[BFG]

 

I know your reads, I want to know why?

You need me to restate why I know Bender is scum? I'm pretty sure I have a summary post from Day 1 but I can tack on a bunch of stuff from today including his obvious SHC "slip" that Clov is inexplicably claiming is more likely to come from Town and the fact Zander totally forgot that he had to drop his fake push on me at the end of the day yesterday to get Lenlo lynched.

 

Again; ask Zander why I'm scum. The more people that do it the better.

 

Your second point is stronger than your first imo. As Dice(?) said we've just had a game where town missed an IC announcement, and at least 2 missed the mason discussion and who was involved