[Standard] The Matrix Reloaded - Game Over

[Thane Vakarian]

Is there a DL counter somewhere?

[Yates]

Hence there's another town PR we don't know of, but we can only guess right now.

I would imagine there's more than one...

[Cory Caboose]

14 1/2 hours

[Cory Caboose]

Yates continues to park his vote on me.

[Thane Vakarian]

 

Hence there's another town PR we don't know of, but we can only guess right now.

I would imagine there's more than one...

 

I guess we'll find out when the time is right. 

 

14 1/2 hours

thanks bro

[Cory Caboose]

[v]Taborline[/v]

[Taborline]

I am sorry this is taking me so long to reply to, I'm a bit overwhelmed with how much there is to catch up on.

 

 

 

my reads have changed.

 

great i'm sure we're all excited to hear about it

 

I do really enjoy watching you two play together.

 

Sorry for being relatively silent, weekends are a bad time for a start for me.

 

I don't really see where the fuss about Lenlo started, but it's an interesting fuss to look at. Lenlo's response to it doesn't give me any bad feelings, but neither does Sili right now. The first time I did have bad feelings about Lenlo was his reads list, as others say, why Thane more than any of us others who haven't really posted a lot?

 

I found Shad's posts 194 and 195 interesting and helpful; I would maybe lean town on him for now, but could interpret his helpful analysis in a different light later on, depending on where things go.

 

I feel good so far about Thane and Corlanna and would have them in my town pile. I liked the effort Thane put into his first meaty post, Laine seems very on par with the Laine I played with in the past, as does Cory.

 

I have unsure to bad feelings about Sooh and Zander or Lenlo. I want to see more from Sooh, who seems quieter than normal.

 

Zander, who else do you have a read on?

 

 

 

1st Bold"  As much as I agree about the read list.  Im debating whether Tab is, just sheeping others,  trying to distance a teammate or is legit picking up how bad it really was.

 

2nd Bold:  leaving an out on the Shad read....????

 

3rd Bold: at this point in the game can you tell me or show your thought process on Sooh and me, Lenlo you did kinda touch on in this post.

 

Not having any experience or Meta makes it hard to decipher the point of your responses also gotta take into consideration the fact youre a newer player.

 

1st Bold: At that point in the game, I felt his reads were odd, particularly concerning Rack.

 

2nd Bold: It's D1, about someone I have never played with before.

 

3rd Bold: At that point I was concerned about Sooh not seeming like she usually is, and was still getting a handle on you. Your original post squeeing about being town, and subsequent fluffy posts made me wonder if it was a tactic. Since then, seeing much more from you, I feel good about you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alright, caught up.

I kinda don't like people proclaiming that they are town in their first post. There were 2 or 3 such posts in this game right at the beginning. Not reading into that much but i generally see it as a good way for scum to start off with.

That said, the one person who has looked bad for me is zander. His first post (based on my previous point) looked kind of forced. Couple of others pointed it too.
 

SWEEEEEEET RANDED TOWN AGAIN!!!!
 
Time to Wreck some Wolves.....
 
This is a PSA to let them know......

 

 

But, more importantly, I get a feeling that, besides his joke posts, he is spending more time defending others than scum-hunting. It is a very early feel however. Posts like these
 

FWIW- I dont really Mafia!Sili really runs up against 3 of the best players in the game atp imo.

Thane: Have you ever played with Thane before...its early D1 extremely normal for Thane atp imo
 
Sooh: I don't think her tone is off.  bad feeling i can agree with a bit because unlike innocent till proven guilty Sooh is always wolf till proven town to me.  but ive mislynched or helped to enough times to give her some more time before coming to a conclusion like that. 
 
lolololololol----Sorry Sooh
 
Me:  HI IM ZANDER
 
It almost seems like you were just picking names out of a hat.
 
 
And you complained about leaving my vote on you when you voted Corlanna first then i voted you.  and your vote was there till you made the comment and voted Sooh.....
 
im pretty happy keeping my vote where it is brah.

fwiw:  i dont necessarily agree with all Thane's reads but I highly doubt wolf Thane puts this much effort into it this early imo.

 

[v]Zander[/v]

 

First, I completely disagree with your opinion about claiming town.  Yeah, it's kind of annoying, but having no numbers to back me up whatsoever I would strongly guess that it's came from town far more often than it has mafia.  At worst, it would be null.

 

More importantly, why do you feel him defending people is more likely to come from him as mafia than town?  Are the people he's defending his teammates?  TMIing reads on townies?

 

 

I think I would likewise be inclined to think it's far more likely to come from a town player, but this is where my questioning of my knowledge/capability to read Zander comes into play. That kind of enthusiasm/silliness is a constant in his posting, not something that stands out, so is it more likely to be genuine?

 

it opened up   in my mind   the possibility that you might be scum together. Up to then I had you as pretty solid town. Hally as nothing. It caused a doubt hence i noted it

 

As for why??  using skeptical dice thinking : 1  Answering Nomi in that manner can get you brownie points. 2    Saying it on thread helps make sure Hally sees it whether she looks in the thread or the QT

 

 

I know its tinfoil hence why i noted it not voted it.

 

I think anyone who answered that question could be a team mate, if indeed Hally is scum.

 

Good evening :)

 

Welcome, BFG! :D

 

 

 

 

I kinda don't like people proclaiming that they are town in their first post.

 
Well, he did say his name was Zander. I'd give him a pass on that. Zander = lovable enthusiasm + personality + jokes + lynching townie sooh.

That's Zander. Hi Zander.

 

 

Pretty sure Alanna already asked this, but why do you think Sooh is townie?

 

I'm not liable to lynch Sooh before she posts content. It's similar to my stance on BFG but not identical.

 

And why does it seemingly not reflect here?

 

 

Sooh is not different from how I remember, and also hasn't had much of a chance to post in this or other games in the past few days.

 

I get no negative indicators and I am not in any way tempted to attack her pre-engagement posts. A better read on her if she's guilty will come when she engages in the game more.

 

The impatience involved regarding Sooh is not something I share.

 

 

Ah, this would likely be a good reason why Sooh would have made her post about wanting to defend herself, if that's one of the first things she saw.

 

 

 

 

I mean what she's asking for is reasonable and we are in no rush

 

Just, idk, there's something about her attitude that I can't put my finger on that's a little fly buzzing in my ear

 

Worrying too much when there's not really been that much said against her?

 

 

 

1st Red:  How do you feel about that now that we're later into the game??

 

2nd Red:  Please elaborate....

 

3rd Red;  in relation the the 2nd quoted post.. kinda feels to me like she's again leaving an out/bracktracking.  again reads change and shes a new player but this kind of stuck out to me after i thought she made a nice catch.

 

I could be wrong but im thinking it so ill mention it

 

 

 

 

1st red: As I said before, I feel a lot better about you. You put your neck out more, you contribute, and I think the way you handled Lenlo's frustrations with your style spoke more to Town than to Scum. It felt honest, and not like you were doing something to try and implicate someone, or to get the wrong kind of rise out of someone.

 

2nd red: I am done with this one, I have talked about that statement enough. It was a bad post, trying to say that Dice's tinfoil was a waste of time, and ended up wasting everyone's time even more.

 

3rd red: Something I should have asked Sooh, "Why do you think that?" instead of pointing out to someone that that's a possibility why. Again, bad play.

[Taborline]

 

 

 

 

Tab, I haven't dug into this discussion yet.  Fill me in in the meantime.  What do you think was said to Hallia that she, if scum, will use to her advantage in this game?

 

Any of those posts saying she plays a certain way, so she could try and do the opposite.

 

 

Convince me that this is a serious opinion. 

 

 

For example, Cory said "She's not typically high volume but when she's really low on the spectrum it's usually a bad sign". So she could, perhaps, be more active.

 

Yates said: "Sadly yes. She will go long periods of time without saying a lot. Then post fluff if she isn't engaged in a game. But early on? She will typically play a little harder - and often hard enough to get an early Town read on. When she stays quiet I get concerned." So again, she could be more active.

 

Laine said: "When it comes to Hallehhh I just measure fluff to content. If fluff outweighs content, and she's hiding a bunch, she probably needs some pressure". So she could add more content and watch the fluff.

 

Clov said: "Whoever asked about Hallia - shes been less active her past few games, and was mafia in a couple, but she wasn't overly active in a town game. My key with her isn't the number of posts but how she's using them. Town Hallia is usually (slighty) more forthcoming with reads and some sort of justification." So maybe she can try and be more forthcoming with reads.

 

 

ummmm what?  i dont know if you convinced Shad but id love for you to convince me.

 

 

As for what I think of Sooh, I need to go through and re-read :)

 

 

but yet you had already posted that you were slightly suspicious of Sooh, made posts and had questions and comments on her.

 

fencesitting/backtracking and leaving yourself outs is not a great look.

 

 

Because all I had on Sooh so far was a feeling, and wanting to get something more concrete is wrong?

 

 

 

Yeah. I should have left already...

 

I had never intended to suggest that people were definitely doing that in the first place. What I actually said was "I think anyone who answered that question could be a team mate, if indeed Hally is scum." Meaning it was a possibility, and indeed I clarified "Because all of those posts were talking about tells for how Hally plays, she could conceivably use any of them to modify her play style, no one seemed more telling than another. Equally, none of them could be teammates, and Hally might not be scum. I didn't see there being a hint there."

 

I don't see how I'm backing out?

???????????????????

 

There are two options.

1. You disagree with me. You believe people stating Hally's meta could have been team mates coaching her and thus if Hally flips scum at least one of the people coaching her would LIKELY be a partner.

or

2. You agree with me. You believe that meta is not the same thing as coaching and nothing said could actually be useful in terms of coaching and thus the whole thing is null EVEN IF Hally flips scum.

 

I guess there's an option three:

3. You acknowledge that either 1 *OR* 2 could be the case - but then why even bring it up?

 

 

The conversation was taking place, and I was just replying to it and putting my thoughts out there that any of those replies to my question could be something or could be nothing, so Dice's tinfoil:

 

it opened up   in my mind   the possibility that you might be scum together. Up to then I had you as pretty solid town. Hally as nothing. It caused a doubt hence i noted it

 

As for why??  using skeptical dice thinking : 1  Answering Nomi in that manner can get you brownie points. 2    Saying it on thread helps make sure Hally sees it whether she looks in the thread or the QT

 

 

I know its tinfoil hence why i noted it not voted it."

 

Didn't seem like it was something that could be pursued (I don't know why it's putting my name there in the quote, but it was Dice's post).

 

But what you said in this post, and then this one make sense, that it might be too difficult of a task for her to pretend to be town. Which still leaves those posts not meaning anything one way or the other.

 

 

Yates GOAT

 

1st Red:  You didnt really answer Yates's question at all. 

 

2nd Red: Then why bring them up?

 

I mean like the whole point I THINK youre trying to make would have been discussed in a Maf QT as opposed to open thread right as pertaining to the whole coaching thing if Hallia was scum.  Also Hallia pretty great player so the whole coaching by teammates thing is pretty meh.

 

im not feeling good vibes here Tab.

 

 

Because it was bad game play, Zander. This is my third game, and I am trying to actually participate (or was before I had to go away for the weekend), and I fecked up. Also, how would I know Hallia is a great player? Judging from the responses I got from that question, she has tells, and doesn't post much. That kind of "you should know better" is crap.

[Taborline]

 

Rephrase that question maybe, what were you hoping to achieve, Rack? I didn't feel the benefit for Town from your Lenlo posts.

 

 

 

I'd give dice some more time. I don't have the impression he's a wolf here. The interaction dice/nomi could be a heated one, yes, but i think the wolf is more to be found on Nomi's side.

 

Can you be more specific about why you don't like Nomi? I saw your post asking him for some explaining, but you don't really say more than he seems off, or you don't like a post, but you don't say why.

 

This kind of "I think we should look elsewhere......" without a clearer explanation is a bit suspect.

 

 

 

 

lololololol.  im liking these posts better fwiw

 

 

Nice memes make my frustration levels cool down a bit (I'm so sorry Hallia, but I feel like I never want to talk about your meta ever, ever again).

 

 

 

I think Nomi has some sort of secret agenda, already pointing out people now as mislynch targets later. I also REALLY have the impression that it's a player we know under another name. The read on me felt like TMI for someone who just has a first game with me.

 

Call me suspicious, but something is off with Nomi, and at one point i'll figure out what it is

 

I understand that that's frustrating, I guess, but I don't see why it makes them scum.

 

 

 

And just after i start feeling better about Tab i see this.

 

you dont see why someone who felt a player was posting with what they perceived was TMI wouldnt seem scummy......

 

 

Because I don't think Nomi was ever hiding the fact that he knew people, the TMI was about knowing a person, not about knowing a person's alignment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dice would be town this game imo. Nomi, not so sure

You think? I'm having trouble coming to this conclusion. What are you seeing?

 

Yates, his play has gone nearly FullDICE, but nothing says wolf here to me. I'm highly trusting my gut here for the moment. When the game continues and we have a few flips, we'll see more clearly.

 

dice is not a target this D1.  

 

 

You keep making me want to vote Dice even more.

 

 

 

i agree about wanting to vote Dice myself...but why does this post make You want to?

 

 

Because, at this point, Thane's "It's not Dice, guys!" didn't seem to be founded on anything, it was just "Let's look elsewhere..." which seemed scummy.

[Cory Caboose]

Who are you voting today, Tab?

[Taborline]

I don't know yet, I need to get through this first and then start looking at flips/ISOing.

[Taborline]

This being responding to Zander.

[Yates]

Yates continues to park his vote on me.

So?

[Cory Caboose]

So?

 

I'm never being lynched. Who are you going to vote today?

[Taborline]

 

 

Do you think Dice and Nomi can be w/w or does a scum flip from one clear the other?

 

No, I don't think a flip would necessarily clear the other.

 

 

 

thoughts now?

 

 

I've not had a chance to ISO yet after flips, but nothing stands out in my memory as being obvious. I will get onto that right after this.

 

 

[v]Rack[/v]

 

But I could also go Dice.

 

 

but in a previous post you said you felt better about Dice, had Dice an Thane as your top 2 scum reads (also mentioned they werent likely w/w iyo) and and you wanna vote Rack (fyi=Flipped Town) and dont mention Thane....

 

 

 

A Dice lynch was not going to happen, though, nor Thane.

 

TL DR on Tab

 

ive liked some posts, and dislikes others.

 

i feel like shes backtracking/fencesitting/leaving outs a lot

 

some of the stuff shes mentioned especially concerning Hallia have been weird/awkward.posts.

 

i know shes a newer player so im trying to take that into consideration.

 

but overall shes trended down my list.

 

I don't see how fence sitting for some people on D1 is a damning thing, especially as I didn't fence sit on others.

[Shad_]

Tab could easily be town who just gave me the unfamiliar player jitters early on.

[Taborline]

 

She lynched most of the scum team but was Town reading Tina.

 

Both me and Tab can confirm that this isn't true, but I believe that's what Yates thinks happened :P

 

Tab <3

 

 

I honestly got one! I got Wishleste...

[Shad_]

Handled Zander's questions honestly enough, no sign of being frazzled.

[Cory Caboose]

I've not had a chance to ISO yet after flips, but nothing stands out in my memory as being obvious. I will get onto that right after this.

 

I honestly think you'd be better off hanging around and interacting in real time and spending your time as wisely as possible than ISOing. Finish catching up, but we have like 14 hours left in this day phase so if you go ISO and dump 1 of them and move on it's not really going to help us read you.

 

I would start listening to instinct over anything else. Who do you think has ulterior motives and a purpose? Who isn't being genuine?

[Cory Caboose]

I honestly got one! I got Wishleste...

 

[Taborline]

 

I've not had a chance to ISO yet after flips, but nothing stands out in my memory as being obvious. I will get onto that right after this.

 

I honestly think you'd be better off hanging around and interacting in real time and spending your time as wisely as possible than ISOing. Finish catching up, but we have like 14 hours left in this day phase so if you go ISO and dump 1 of them and move on it's not really going to help us read you.

 

I would start listening to instinct over anything else. Who do you think has ulterior motives and a purpose? Who isn't being genuine?

 

 

That's actually what I find more difficult. Like figuring out Wishleste, I got that from doing an ISO of them, whereas in real time I feel I'm less likely to see things.

 

Still catching up from before, I want to read it in order instead of reading to reply to comments to me.

[Cory Caboose]

I would focus on Lenlo and Sooh since I would guess one of them is the lynch today.

 

Do what you need to do, just try to understand time is limited.

[Shad_]

I need to wrap my head around what made Sooh obvious town last few times I played with her and why I'm not feeling that here.

[Cory Caboose]

[v]Sooh[/v]

[Cory Caboose]

 

Votecount

Lenlo - Zander, Dice, Sooh, Sili, Shad (5)

Sooh - Lenlo, Clov, Corlanna (3)

Corlanna - Yates (1)

Taborline - Thane (1)

 

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: Wednesday 8PM PST.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This should still be up to date.