Frozen Mafia Game Thread--GAME OVER--MAFIA WIN

[Sili Quirrels]

Shad, dice and Kaylee all not in my wtl pile for today *nods*

 

Sili... the more you post, the more it sounds like you're struggling to me to be honest. For most people, you are not easy to read. And i've seen you bite the dust for that before. If you're town, maybe you'd need to rethink your approach on this game, buddy. 

 

ftr: if you're wolf, please go on *nods*

By the way, what is the bold? Sarcasm?

[Sili Quirrels]

Struggling...

 

If I had a dime for every time I heard a wolf use that word I'd be a very rich man.

[Sili Quirrels]

[unvote]

[v]Thane[/v]

[Sili Quirrels]

I don't think I am struggling. I am reacting haughty and frustrated, but I am definitely not struggling to post game related content.

[Andrej]

Razen possibly outs himself on pg 6

[Thane Vakarian]

I don't think I am struggling. I am reacting haughty and frustrated, but I am definitely not struggling to post game related content.

i'm telling you how it looks to me, Sili. i'm telling you how your play looks at this point. If you feel that's worth voting me... 

 

If you're frustrated, take a step back, breathe a bit, and come back to post when you're calmer. It would help, imo

[Sili Quirrels]

@ Kaylee

 

 

I thought Dice was clear in that he agrees regarding Sooh.

 

 

Of course he was. I didn't say otherwise.

 

My question was whether he had cleared Zander for tone. Read my post again if you don't believe me.

Bold: ummm no. He says you've cleared Sooh since you called her town. I agree that pretty much clears her. Yes you go back later and say otherwise, but saying someone is town basically means you have a read on them which would be clearing them.

 

 

 

I feel I've already debunked this, but just one last time:

 

1.

I understand how a person can think 'Sooh Town' means I'm clearing Sooh, but I wasn't. I later explain my stance, and Dice reads it, and still he says I cleared Sooh despite my explanation.

 

When you give more weight to an ambiguous uninformative low-effort post, than the post that came after that held all the important pertinent information, it demonstrates a severe bias in your thinking.

 

2.

Since when does a town read qualify as clearing someone?

 

This sounds like town Dice. He sees something he thinks is scummy and jumps all over it.

 

 

 

 

Some day Dice will be mafia and this excuse will let him do a lot of damage. Might be this game, might not, but all the same.

 

 

Hate this post. Feels so emo. "Well I'm just done then" attitude.

 

Recognize that I said in the last sentence I would continue to evaluate Dice.

 

Kaylee, you've seen how Dice plays. When he tunnels someone, be they villager or a wolf it is incredibly frustrating. In fact, it's not just Dice. When you're tunneled it's frustrating.

 

Now I know I can't change Dice's mind once he's made it up. Therefore I'm done trying.

 

But this is not emo. This is not a bad attitude. I have not given up on the game. In fact, no where in that post you quoted did I say I would. Specifically, I said I would continue trying to read Dice DESPITE DICE'S BAD PLAY.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

I don't think I am struggling. I am reacting haughty and frustrated, but I am definitely not struggling to post game related content.

i'm telling you how it looks to me, Sili. i'm telling you how your play looks at this point. If you feel that's worth voting me... 

 

If you're frustrated, take a step back, breathe a bit, and come back to post when you're calmer. It would help, imo

 

IT's lame. I don't believe you. So I am voting you.

[Thane Vakarian]

@Sili: As you wish, bro. If you're town, though, then i'd like to reach endgame with you. 

 

@AJ: I'll look back at page 6, but i haven't noticed anything untill now about Razen. Don't know his play at all. 

[Sili Quirrels]

So I think Kaylee is actively trying to tunnel me. Don't know why yet.

 

Some things feel genuine, but when I read comments like:

Why don't you have time? Also this doesn't feel like taunting to me...just Dice being Dice.

 

It feels like she would be okay with me having a thunder dome with Dice despite knowing how destructive that is.

 

As to what I mean when I say taunting: just that Dice is trying to taunt a wolf and it's annoying.

 

I understand that in a vacuum wolves rarely involve themselves in v/v violence.

 

 

 

[Sili Quirrels]

Exactly. Not sure this makes Sili scum, but it does make me leary of him. He's misrepping Dice and it feels like on purpose. I'm just not sure why. I've seen Sili do this kind of thing before as town and get mislynched for it. It's frustrating and it's part of why I have a hard time reading him correctly.

 

 

When did I misrepp dice...?

 

Please quote?

 

I liked Dice's explaination on this. He was being misrepped and said how. Sili on this, I don't know...he's really hard for me to read.

 

If you're town I honestly think that's your fault not mine.

 

And no I didn't misrep  him. Actually start reading my posts and maybe you'll be able to read me better.

[Sili Quirrels]

Did you say why you didn't like Thane? I can't remember. If so please quote or just give me the jest of it please.

 

Why Thane in particular?

 

I had a lot of ppl I was looking at so it's queer.

 

Thane because his tone is more distant, and he has difficulty making game-related content.

[Andrej]

morning AJ *hands coffee¨*

 

Are we gonna wreck some wolves again this game?

 

Business as usual imo

[Sili Quirrels]

Yes. Sili did initially twist Dice's words to reach an untrue conclusion. But it worked. And from that point - it's not a misrep. When I reread it closely - Dice never said anything about clearing Zander until pressed by Sili - he even voted him as a joke. That's not clearing behavior, if you ask me. So why pick Dice to hop on out of all people regarding the clearing of Zander initially? He is the first one to bring the post up. And Sili hops all over him for that. Initially - it's wrong. He makes the assumption that Dice has cleared Zander based on tone when he hadn't actually done that at that point in the game. Because as Dice pointed out - he hadn't mentioned Zander being town or anything when he had initially posted. That doesn't happen until later.

 

@Shad/Kaylee - can't figure out whom made this comment.

I didn't think he would clear Zander based on tone, so I was calling a bluff to prove Dice had a double standard. If I recall rightly, at first he was very reluctant to read Zander, and when I call him out on having a double standard if he didn't clear Zander, he cleared Zander for tone related content.

 

And I've yet to figure out if it was a genuine read or merely miscommunication.

[Sili Quirrels]

ebwop: genuine read, merely miscommunication, or back-peddling.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

who said my conclusion is wrong? you come in saying Zanders getting cleared too quick   he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh in the next sentence.

 

you say its bad one sentence and then do it yourself. Thats definitely talking out both sides of your mouth imo and I dont really see that as a good thing.

 

Even if i do agree that sooh is town based on the same thing you explain later. her tone.

 

But you didnt say that here you just threw out a double standard.

So let's be clear here. If you don't have a double standard, you are clearing Zander for faking tone when he spent the last mafia game showcasing how well he could fake tone?

 

And I am not 'clearing' Sooh so don't even.

 

re.bold. It's a clause.

 

I was calling him out for having a double standard. I was also saying he should have a double standard wrt Zander.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

So I think Kaylee is actively trying to tunnel me. Don't know why yet.

 

Some things feel genuine, but when I read comments like:

Why don't you have time? Also this doesn't feel like taunting to me...just Dice being Dice.

 

It feels like she would be okay with me having a thunder dome with Dice despite knowing how destructive that is.

 

As to what I mean when I say taunting: just that Dice is trying to taunt a wolf and it's annoying.

 

I understand that in a vacuum wolves rarely involve themselves in v/v violence.

 

 

 

I realize the wording is awkward, but read Dice's post. He clearly assumes I am a wolf and taunts me as if I were one.

[Sili Quirrels]

@Sili: As you wish, bro. If you're town, though, then i'd like to reach endgame with you. 

 

@AJ: I'll look back at page 6, but i haven't noticed anything untill now about Razen. Don't know his play at all. 

ditto. start by saying stuff.

[Sili Quirrels]

Players
1. Razen - long posts. haven't read in full.
2. Shad - long posts. good content. town read.
3. Kronos - has he posted?
4. Verbal - weekend.
5. Kaylee - optimistically town. still quite skeptical though, so I fluxuate.
6. Hallia - eh, gun to head: town.  it's weird. she needs to explain her read on dice.
7. Sooh - town for tone. it's a tone read.
8. dice - meh - town. his meta is easy to fake as a wolf though, so like normal, unless i have something else to go on, this is just a tone read.
9. Andrej - seems apathetic to me. more than normal. commenting Razen outs himself and not quoting the passage for instance.
10. Zander - I can understand why he voted me from a town pov.
11. Pral - can't remember if he's posted.
12. Thane - trouble posting game-related content.
13. Sili - charming.

[Thane Vakarian]

i did, regarding your play. 

Dice's behaviour seems like town dice to me, ftr.

 

I've been reading the page AJ had mentioned, and i think i see what he means. 

 

As for the other players: some more would be nice. The most talk has been about you and dice for now, and it'd be nice to see some other talk. 

[Andrej]

-snip-

 

Yes. Sili did initially twist Dice's words to reach an untrue conclusion. But it worked. And from that point - it's not a misrep. When I reread it closely - Dice never said anything about clearing Zander until pressed by Sili - he even voted him as a joke. That's not clearing behavior, if you ask me. So why pick Dice to hop on out of all people regarding the clearing of Zander initially? He is the first one to bring the post up. And Sili hops all over him for that. Initially - it's wrong. He makes the assumption that Dice has cleared Zander based on tone when he hadn't actually done that at that point in the game. Because as Dice pointed out - he hadn't mentioned Zander being town or anything when he had initially posted. That doesn't happen until later.

 

-snip-

 

But in the purple - Dice caves. He admits he's clearing Zander. Where Dice says "he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh.."

 

The red is the point of Sili's push on Dice - which given the purple, is now a valid point to make. It's the part where Sili says "you are clearing Zander for faking tone..."

 

And yet Dice takes care to go back and say "I didn't clear Zander anywhere - you're misrepping me Sili."

 

I quoted the massive post where he does that below. In spoiler, so it doesn't kill people's eyes.

 

It's not a misrep at all from Sili after the purple point - it reads to me like Dice is going back to try and cover for his inadvertent admission regarding Zander. And call Sili out for making a bogus point when it really isn't.

 

I can understand if Dice didn't realize that he actually made that statement regarding clearing Zander because of tone. But he made it - and that's what drew my attention. And what's very interesting is that AJ basically saw fit to hop along with that bogus reasoning that Dice put out there. Zander uses Sili's refusal to address the point anymore as the basis for his vote - which looks better from Zander, but again - it's based on the assumption that Dice didn't actually say what he did. Dice's vote is pure OMGUS - the others, not so much. And those are the ones I'm concerned with.

 

Really not a fan of this post, at all. If anyone is misrepping here, it's you by a serious margin. I think the Dice/Sili thing boils down to a misunderstanding/poor communication but they way you present the argument here is false and I am unsure how you were able to draw these sort of conclusions if you were actually reading the exchange. It seems to me you're really just making things up.

 

I have gone through and highlighted some statement of yours that are false and a misrepresentation of the actual events. I don't feel like you are being objective with your viewpoint.

 

Red: Disregarding the other issues I have with your posts, this is actually the bit I dislike the most. Firstly, I never stated any reason when I voted so therefore you are either assuming terribly or intentionally applying negative connotation to my vote when you really shouldn't. I think that is scummy - you're basically making up a reason to sus me before doing any actual investigation. Also in order for you to think my vote is scum motivated, you have to assume that Sili is at least more likely a villager or not. Is that the case? And what up to that point made you think that? By reading your post above, it seems like you are questionable on Sili.

 

It was a weird exchange altogether.

 

I can agree - escalated pretty quickly and to me seems like a big case of misunderstanding because neither did good job expressing themselves. 

 

-snip-

 

I appreciate the accuracy of your recap there.

 

Your questions at the end are kinda... not sure what the word I'm looking for is, though. Faux - maybe? I didn't take Verbal serious for his statement about never voting Zander.

 

I didn't really expect Hallia to not take sides, least of all say Dice is as scummy as me.

 

Also, in the case Dice and I are both town, then Hallia's comment can be perceived to be encouraging people to focus on a town pair instead of catching scum.

 

Not a bad observation. Then again - she literally did the exact opposite as a scum in our last game together. She just labeled the argument v/v and left it alone.

 

I'm trying to take a moment.  Lately I'm very bad at reading Dice.  My gut reads are wrong with him.  He almost always comes across as scum, and I want to make certain I'm not mistaken.

 

You pushed Dice as a wolf in your last game as well, although there you were using a false meta and here you are attempting to at least explain. So credit where it is due - but - do I need to be concerned again? :(

 

I actually dislike yellow. I don't know why I used that color.

 

I assume I am yellow because you regard me as your Golden Boy of goodness?

 

-snip- 

 

Two parts I want to address:

 

The first is regarding the Thane/Sooh interaction over Dice/Sili.  I snipped the part where Kaylee pointed out that she liked Thane's observation that Sili had contradicted himself.  But before she mentioned that point, she mentions she feels like Thane and Sooh are working together to further a trap.  A trap takes coordination - coordination that I find highly unlikely at this stage of the game from town.  If she feels that this is indeed a trap, then that should be two scum down.  But no.  She backs off of that line of thought.  I wonder why? 

 

-snip-

 

Basically hate this post. The tone is all wrong, and it just drips with what comes across to me as scummy shading.

 

Ftr I wanna note the odd vibe I get from Kaylee and Razen interacting together.

 

Underlined: What about this is actually scummy?

 

Italics: Scummy rhetoric leading up to the red, all around gross. Reads to me that Razen is trying harder to spin a narrative than present actual observations, there's so much shading to how he puts things - everything is basked in a negative light. I have a difficult time thinking this is a townie POV.

 

Razen seems to be playing the "all players are scummy until proven otherwise"-game. That is something I have come to expect from a scum player rather than a townie. 

 

Shad, I like your tone so far this game. 

 

Kinda love this post by you, Sooh. I agree - Razen's posts just drip with what feels like negative intent.

[Thane Vakarian]

as for the trouble posting game related content: i always have that problem D1. I need some flips to start connecting dots usually. 

[Andrej]

9. Andrej - seems apathetic to me. more than normal. commenting Razen outs himself and not quoting the passage for instance.

 

Patience.

[Sili Quirrels]

i did, regarding your play. 

 

Dice's behaviour seems like town dice to me, ftr.

 

I've been reading the page AJ had mentioned, and i think i see what he means. 

 

As for the other players: some more would be nice. The most talk has been about you and dice for now, and it'd be nice to see some other talk. 

 

When you say I am struggling, start by elaborating on what you mean. Because struggling certainly isn't the word I would use.

[Andrej]

Also - curious - but what are 'normal' levels of apathy that you get from me?

 

Like ever.