Age of Legends [standard] Mafia - Game Over

[Nolder]

Zander seems to be floating through this game.

Reminds me of my game in TUS.

[Nolder]

 

Not sure I agree.  I understand why you would think that - if it's Shad/Nolder/Crush, he pretty much knew one was dying - but Shad was gaining far more negative attention than Crusher had been.  I'm not sure I understand the idea of him offering up a lesser noticed teammate over a more outed?

 

Debatable. Shad was getting more attention up until Kiv pushed me. That much is true. But I think Crusher was getting just as much attention after that. I remember that at some point Sha'd train was gaining yesterday. But I also recall that at the same time, some people were town reading him... whilst I think most players admitted that Crusher's vote on me and then Kivam were pretty horrible 

 

Under the assumption that we are dealing with a Shad/Crusher/Nolder team.... and with the rules indicating that scum have no day chat..... if I were Nolder and I had two of my mates up on the chopping block? One with 5 votes and one with 4 votes? I would tie it too. He was getting attention as well, he needed some town cred. You can agree that adding a vote to Shad's train wouldn't make him look as good.... right?  As far as I see it, Shad was gaining some favor and getting some town reads from people (I can't remember from the top of my head who... and I don't want to incorrectly name people... but I distinctively remember Shad's name in the town pile of some read lists). So I think that at the end of the day... Crusher was getting lynched either way. So I'm not rushing to give Nolder leeway about this. At least not until I know Shad's alignment.

 

Well I know this scenario is incorrect but walk me through the logic anyway because it's really confusing me.

If I was on a team with Crusher and Shad...why do I tie the trains again? What does that do for me if one way or another a teammate is dying? If one or the other is going to die it makes more sense (to me) to just put a vote on the one who already had the most votes and hope it doesn't project as a bus vote. Makes the one who was getting less heat look like a false train and hopefully clears them for awhile.

 

I'm not asking anyone to give me any leeway Nyn. Grill me, peek me, vote me. Whatever. We're all good players and we know that, while useful, voting patterns are a bad way to clear people so don't. I think this discussion is becoming distracting. Clov (mostly) trusts me and Nyn doesn't. Let's leave it at that and catch more baddies huh guys?

[Nolder]

Doesn't it bug you that Nolder was calling Kivam's trap dumb... defending Crusher and going after Kiv? He had Crusher squarely as null, but kept over defending him, going on about how he's hard to lynch and all that crap.  I mean it's great that he broke the tie.... but really?  I still don't trust him at all.

I still think it's dumb but hey no offense to Crusher but he's not the most tactical player out there. He plays with heart and instinct. His charm is his main weapon as mafia. So maybe Kiv's dumb trap worked perfectly on him.

 

 

AND I DIDN'T BREAK NO TIE WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING THAT?

 

I am the one who tied the trains.

[Nolder]

atp willing to go with Shad or Hallia

 

gonna keep going with my gut

 

[v] Shad [/v]

Gross. Are you even paying attention?

[Nolder]

 

 

Doesn't it bug you that Nolder was calling Kivam's trap dumb... defending Crusher and going after Kiv? He had Crusher squarely as null, but kept over defending him, going on about how he's hard to lynch and all that crap.  I mean it's great that he broke the tie.... but really?  I still don't trust him at all.

 

I honestly don't remember it much.  I'll check it again in case I'm wrong, but in a vacuum, the answer to this would be no.  I thought a lot of what Kivam did was kind of dumb tbh.  

 

 

Let me rephrase then. It's fine if he thought it was dumb... but even after Crusher's vote on me and them OMGUS vote on Kiv... he not only kept defending him but he tried to push Kivam. It seems kinda weird to me that at the time he didn't see anything... wrong?.... with what Crusher did... but then later when things progressed towards EoD he laid in that vote. I get that people get to change their mind and all that.... but the 180 looks shady imo and I don't think Crusher did much since then, other than the post where he pretty much said he'd be a good lynch and claimed. 

 

Let me tell you plainly, very plainly, what I did and why and maybe you'll feel a little bit better about it.

 

I didn't know what the hell I was doing at EOD. My only two suspects weren't that strong of read in the first place and the longer the whole Kiv thing went on the less sure I was about everything (see: here). So instead of getting mired down in argument (like I'm doing now unfortunately) I decided to skip that and strengthen my reads. It wasn't about saving Shad or even lynching Crusher it was about me not having any good reads on D1. I hope that makes more sense to you now.

[Nolder]

So I stalked the hell out of all of you throughout the 20 minutes we had to wait for the flip. 

 

 

It's not full-proof, but I'm pretty sure Clov, Dice, AJ, and Nolder were all F5 spamming the entire time.

Yeah? I usually do if I'm around at EOD. I was also posting as well so not sure what you're trying to imply lol.

It's not like I was trying to pretend I wasn't around?

[Nolder]

Ok caught up. Now I'm going to give my own thoughts.

[Nolder]

Official VC 1.15

Shad (4): Dice, Zander, Calder, AJ

Hallia (1): Clov

Crusher (4): Kivam, Nyn, Shad, Nolder

Kivam (1): Crusher

 

Not voting (3): Hallia, Thane, Laine

 

Ok so here's the VC when I tied it between Shad and Crusher. Let's follow the votes from here.

 

Official VC 1.16

Shad (4): Dice, Zander, Calder, AJ

Crusher (5): Kivam, Nyn, Shad, Nolder, Clov

Kivam (1): Crusher

 

Not voting (3): Hallia, Thane, Laine

Clov almost immediately follows up my tie by breaking it with a vote on Crusher. I have no concerns about Clov so I'm not bothered by this move. I don't think he even realized what I did when he voted.

 

Official VC 1.17

Shad (4): Dice, Zander, Calder, AJ

Crusher (5): Kivam, Nyn, Shad, Nolder, Clov

Kivam (1): Crusher

Dice(1):Hallia

 

Not voting (2): Thane, Laine

Next VC comes a few pages later and the only change is that Hallia went from voting no one to voting Dice who we now know is Town. Her only point in the post was that she thought Shad was town which is something I agree with. She also noted that Dice should be "darkest orange" according to her. I'm not sure why so if she hasn't already I'd like to hear her explain that.

 

Official VC 1.18

Shad (4): Dice, Zander, Calder, AJ

Crusher (6): Kivam, Nyn, Shad, Nolder, Clov, Hallia

Kivam (1): Crusher

Nolder (1): Laine

 

Not voting (1): Thane

A few pages later we get a new VC. Changes here are Hallia moved to Crusher and Alanna moved to me. Hallia seemed to think Crusher could be hammered but then realized he couldn't but dropped her vote on him anyway and went to bed. Alanna...I don't know what was going on with her. She had it out for me only a little while before deadline and... ya'll can go back and read what she was saying if you want to but point is she did back up her vote it just made no sense imo and the timing was really bad.

 

Official VC 1.19

Shad (5): Dice, Zander, Calder, AJ, Clov

Crusher (5): Kivam, Nyn, Shad, Nolder, Hallia

Kivam (1): Crusher

Nolder (1): Laine

 

Not voting (1): Thane

Next VC only change is Clov switched from Crusher to Shad which tied the trains as he tried to force Alanna to choose a side. Tricky move and I like it.

 

FINAL VC

 

Shad (4): Dice, Zander, Calder, Clov

 

Crusher (7): Kivam, Nyn, Shad, Nolder, Hallia, Laine, AJ

 

Kivam (1): Crusher

 

Not voting (1): Thane

Final VC, Alanna and AJ both switched at basically the same moment sealing Crushers fate with little time to spare. Now three things I want to make a point of here. First AJ with the hero switch. I think that seals the deal with him as town if there was any doubt, he had no idea Alanna was switching and had no incentive to do so if Crusher was his partner. Alanna playing erratically is what I'm thinking most of you will know as TWTBAW which, to be fair, is a fallacy but I think it's probably true in this case. She just seems all over the place. Most importantly I want to note that Thane was with us for quite awhile, up to the very end and after, and did not vote. I believe his explanation was that both trains felt "too easy". I'm not sure if he means he felt they were scummy but was second guessing himself or if he may have thought one or both were townie but my take away from the situation is negative.

[Nolder]

I think the voting shenanigans at EOD really helped clear up the reads. IMO this game is already all but over.

 

Town

AJ

Kivam

Clov

Calder

Shad

Nyn

 

Wildcards

Zander

Laine

 

Mafia

Hallia

Thane

[Nolder]

[v]Thane[/v]

[Thane Vakarian]

 

indeed. I stick with it too. Trains too easy, doesn't feel right.

 

i think we have to stay quiet now (no night chat?)

 

 

those trains look too easy imo... Normally people are all over the place D1, voting left and right and barely managing (if at all) a lynch on D1. These ones have been rolling for quite some time now, without that much opposition. 

 

Maybe it was easy and not a lot of movement because both trains were on scum??

 

possible... i'll need to re-read and re-asses. need to head out a bit but will catch up later.

 

Crusher gone: *mental note* readwhat other people post on the main suspects more closely*

Dice gone :  

[Nolder]

Hello Thane.

 

You going to be around later? Like a few hours later or like waay later?

[alannalynn]

 

Laine, go look at calders reactions as crush started pulling close to then past shad. Also, look at the timing of where calder flipped from voting shad to pounding the drum for his lynch. On mobile so not going back, but i noted the shift while it happened and townread the hell out of him to improve my chances of surviving the night. With shad confirmed town by my peek, the conclusion is even stronger

I was beating the drum for Shad's lynch since like page 3. Even when i temporarily unvoted and then revoted for him i believe he still had more votes than Crusher without me. But, lets consider your point anyway. In your mind i pushed Shad hard to divert attention away from the growing pressure on Crusher.

 

If i am so concerned about protecting Crusher than why wouldn't i have been active at EoD. I was not on for hours prior to EoD. I had my vote on Shad and it was obvious when i left it was going to come out close and that it would prob be crusher since it was trending up. So if i am in your mind motivated by a need to get a townie lynched instead of Crusher, then why would i not bother being active during the crucial hours needed to sway the vote?

 

This post isn't sitting well with me and I can't pinpoint why. Maybe it feels ~overdone?

[alannalynn]

@Nolder: why do you have Calder so high?

 

 

I think Crusher-Kivam would be an unlikely, but not impossible, team.  That means POE is down to Hallia/Calder/Shad......../Kiv......../ZanderFPS.  Calder-Shad should never be teammates, so Hallia is pretty much guaranteed mafia at this point?

FWIW I don't think Crush/Kiv is a team but like you said not impossible. They both know each other well enough from playing together on JN. My perspective is that I didn't sense team shenanigans going on with that though. Crusher seemed genuinely pissed about getting caught.

 

I like your thought on Hallia and agree Calder/Shad not a team.

I wonder how Calder feels about Shad now? IMO he's basically locktown.

What do you mean by this? Shad is locktown? Or Calder is locktown? Being that Shad is my peek, I agree to him being town, but if you mean Calder, then no.

 

 

 

 

Not sure I agree.  I understand why you would think that - if it's Shad/Nolder/Crush, he pretty much knew one was dying - but Shad was gaining far more negative attention than Crusher had been.  I'm not sure I understand the idea of him offering up a lesser noticed teammate over a more outed?

 

Debatable. Shad was getting more attention up until Kiv pushed me. That much is true. But I think Crusher was getting just as much attention after that. I remember that at some point Sha'd train was gaining yesterday. But I also recall that at the same time, some people were town reading him... whilst I think most players admitted that Crusher's vote on me and then Kivam were pretty horrible 

 

Under the assumption that we are dealing with a Shad/Crusher/Nolder team.... and with the rules indicating that scum have no day chat..... if I were Nolder and I had two of my mates up on the chopping block? One with 5 votes and one with 4 votes? I would tie it too. He was getting attention as well, he needed some town cred. You can agree that adding a vote to Shad's train wouldn't make him look as good.... right?  As far as I see it, Shad was gaining some favor and getting some town reads from people (I can't remember from the top of my head who... and I don't want to incorrectly name people... but I distinctively remember Shad's name in the town pile of some read lists). So I think that at the end of the day... Crusher was getting lynched either way. So I'm not rushing to give Nolder leeway about this. At least not until I know Shad's alignment.

 

 

Well I know this scenario is incorrect but walk me through the logic anyway because it's really confusing me.

If I was on a team with Crusher and Shad...why do I tie the trains again? What does that do for me if one way or another a teammate is dying? If one or the other is going to die it makes more sense (to me) to just put a vote on the one who already had the most votes and hope it doesn't project as a bus vote. Makes the one who was getting less heat look like a false train and hopefully clears them for awhile.

 

I'm not asking anyone to give me any leeway Nyn. Grill me, peek me, vote me. Whatever. We're all good players and we know that, while useful, voting patterns are a bad way to clear people so don't. I think this discussion is becoming distracting. Clov (mostly) trusts me and Nyn doesn't. Let's leave it at that and catch more baddies huh guys?

In response to this, if both Shad and Crusher were mafia, you can do a few things:

A. Stay off of it entirely. When mafia flips with either train, you look bad

B. Vote the one with the most votes. Looks like busing.

c. Vote and tie the trains. Either way, you tied the trains on a mafia lynch, you look good.

[Nynaeve]

Still kinda sleepy but Nolder, about saying you broke the tie... i meant tying. If I said breaking the tie in my posts, my bad. It's not what I meant. 

 

But the same principle still applies. Under the assumption that Shad and you are on a team with Crusher.... tying the trains is the move that makes you look the best, as long as Shad's alignment is unknown. Players would customary assume that a competing train to scum would PROLLY be a townie (especially on D1). Which gives Shad some leeway.... so in theory, he'd be less likely to get lynched for a while. 

 

Also... Crusher basically gave up.... while Shad was still taking people head on. If I had both at teammates.... with all my love to Crusher... i'd give Crusher the boot. Gotta make tough decisions... and if you three are the scum team... you tying the trains would be your saving grace and give you cover (at least for a while).That's the best I can do explaining my thoughts.... hope they're clearer now.

[BFG]

Official VC 2.6

 

Hallia (2): AJ, Clov

 

Shad (1): Zander

 

Calder (2): Shad, Kivam

 

Thane (2): Laine, Nolder

 

Not voting (4): Hallia, Thane, Calder, Nyn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Thane[/v]

 

 

[Nynaeve]

Saying that, I'm prolly not going to vote you today, Nolder. I didn't hate your responses so much... and I like that you reread EoD and gave your thoughts. Willing to wait to see more from you. But you need to get in gear. Because, like I said, aside from that vote of yours (which could mean anything).... your content has been shady.

 

 

My focus today, as it were, is on Shad/ Calder. like I said, I don't like that Crusher glossed over the Shad/ Calder interaction with V/V. He seems to defend Shad, which, could be him defending a scummate.... or him trying to get town cred post flip for defending a townie... but at the same time he doesn't go for Calder either.... which I'd fully expect him to do if we were indeed dealing with a V/V situation. He doesn't seize the opportunity of the argument between Shad and Calder. Instead, he tiptoes around it.... and I ends up finding him on my doorstep.

 

One of them is scum. We just need to figure out who. On one hand you got Shad, who's been pinging me since the start of the game. On the other you've got Calder who started really strong but I kinda lost him along the way..... decisions decisions.

[Nynaeve]

DM is being annoying and not letting my post go through... :/

[alannalynn]

 

 

It is possible that he is of course. But, I don't feel swayed to shift off him considering his missteps and no other extremely attractive options.

 

Waitwaitwait ... I'm the dry one?

You post like your a college professor whose syllabus requires that you buy "his" textbook.

 

This is adorable.

[alannalynn]

 

 

It is possible that he is of course. But, I don't feel swayed to shift off him considering his missteps and no other extremely attractive options.

 

Waitwaitwait ... I'm the dry one?

You post like your a college professor whose syllabus requires that you buy "his" textbook.

 

This is adorable.

[Nynaeve]

ugh

[Calder]

 

 

Laine, go look at calders reactions as crush started pulling close to then past shad. Also, look at the timing of where calder flipped from voting shad to pounding the drum for his lynch. On mobile so not going back, but i noted the shift while it happened and townread the hell out of him to improve my chances of surviving the night. With shad confirmed town by my peek, the conclusion is even stronger

 

I was beating the drum for Shad's lynch since like page 3. Even when i temporarily unvoted and then revoted for him i believe he still had more votes than Crusher without me. But, lets consider your point anyway. In your mind i pushed Shad hard to divert attention away from the growing pressure on Crusher.

If i am so concerned about protecting Crusher than why wouldn't i have been active at EoD. I was not on for hours prior to EoD. I had my vote on Shad and it was obvious when i left it was going to come out close and that it would prob be crusher since it was trending up. So if i am in your mind motivated by a need to get a townie lynched instead of Crusher, then why would i not bother being active during the crucial hours needed to sway the vote?

This post isn't sitting well with me and I can't pinpoint why. Maybe it feels ~overdone?

Kivam has decided i am scum already and is just trying to pull together a story that makes it look like i am guilty. But, as a i posted above the actual events don't support his theory. If he had come out and said he just needs to lynch one of me and Shad for info and trusts me less i could respect that. But, not this pathetic theory.

[Nolder]

@Nolder: why do you have Calder so high?

I believe his thing with Shad was town on town violence.

My read on him is based entirely on their interactions.

 

FTR my list isn't in any order, you're either in one category or another.

 

What do you mean by this? Shad is locktown? Or Calder is locktown? Being that Shad is my peek, I agree to him being town, but if you mean Calder, then no.

Yes I was referring to Shad as locktown.

I think there is a very very high chance Calder is town as well which is why I put him on my town list.

 

In response to this, if both Shad and Crusher were mafia, you can do a few things:

A. Stay off of it entirely. When mafia flips with either train, you look bad

B. Vote the one with the most votes. Looks like busing.

c. Vote and tie the trains. Either way, you tied the trains on a mafia lynch, you look good.

C: I don't see how that makes me look good.

[Nolder]

Still kinda sleepy but Nolder, about saying you broke the tie... i meant tying. If I said breaking the tie in my posts, my bad. It's not what I meant. 

 

But the same principle still applies. Under the assumption that Shad and you are on a team with Crusher.... tying the trains is the move that makes you look the best, as long as Shad's alignment is unknown. Players would customary assume that a competing train to scum would PROLLY be a townie (especially on D1). Which gives Shad some leeway.... so in theory, he'd be less likely to get lynched for a while. 

 

Also... Crusher basically gave up.... while Shad was still taking people head on. If I had both at teammates.... with all my love to Crusher... i'd give Crusher the boot. Gotta make tough decisions... and if you three are the scum team... you tying the trains would be your saving grace and give you cover (at least for a while).That's the best I can do explaining my thoughts.... hope they're clearer now.

Ok I agree with that...but what if Shad had been lynched and flipped mafia? Would I not come out of that looking worse since we're assuming that in that instance Crusher would come out looking like the townie?

[Nolder]

Saying that, I'm prolly not going to vote you today, Nolder. I didn't hate your responses so much... and I like that you reread EoD and gave your thoughts. Willing to wait to see more from you. But you need to get in gear. Because, like I said, aside from that vote of yours (which could mean anything).... your content has been shady.

OKAY COOL! We agree on that. This is what was giving me the most confusion was really people assigning thoughts to me based on a tie vote. IMO it means nothing.

 

Also I'm confident by the time you'd feel like lynching me I'll have already proven my towniness, if I haven't already. :P

 

My focus today, as it were, is on Shad/ Calder. like I said, I don't like that Crusher glossed over the Shad/ Calder interaction with V/V. He seems to defend Shad, which, could be him defending a scummate.... or him trying to get town cred post flip for defending a townie... but at the same time he doesn't go for Calder either.... which I'd fully expect him to do if we were indeed dealing with a V/V situation. He doesn't seize the opportunity of the argument between Shad and Calder. Instead, he tiptoes around it.... and I ends up finding him on my doorstep.

 

One of them is scum. We just need to figure out who. On one hand you got Shad, who's been pinging me since the start of the game. On the other you've got Calder who started really strong but I kinda lost him along the way..... decisions decisions.

Don't agree with this. You're right Crusher didn't seize the opportunity but remind yourself that he also gave up as you put it. I don't think Crusher was going to do much of anything but argue with Kivam and AtE until the end.