Ragnarok Game Thread - Game Over, Town Wins!

[Celeste]

 

 

 

 

tl;dr

 

Talya from page 10-13 lacks self-awareness and critical thinking skills villagers tend to demonstrate. When Talya confronted the idea Cory presented in thread, Talya went with the flow, and when Talya confronted Lee's counter-point, she critically deconstructed Lee's approach.

 

 

These two very different behaviors to similar events is inconsistent. She was more critical of lee than cory with no prior bias toward either, which makes a lot of sense if she arbitrarily decided to buddy cory and attack lee.

 

Bolded is ebwop.

Here.

We each go about this differently but it helps us to be more united in the end. Also I don't get wish's actions there.

-___-

 

Yiou don't read Wish's posts do you?

I do but I don't follow her train of thought much on certain things.

[Lenlo]

The four winds are very hard of hearing in their old age Sili, and the people I was talking to were being quite silly.

[Sili Quirrels]

If no one is listening to you perhaps you might give up? You don't even have a wagon?

[wish-tree]

 

 

 

tl;dr

 

Talya from page 10-13 lacks self-awareness and critical thinking skills villagers tend to demonstrate. When Talya confronted the idea Cory presented in thread, Talya went with the flow, and when Talya confronted Lee's counter-point, she critically deconstructed Lee's approach.

 

These two very different behaviors to similar events is inconsistent. She was more critical of lee than cory with no prior bias toward either, which makes a lot of sense if she arbitrarily decided to buddy cory and attack lee.

Bolded is ebwop.

Here.

We each go about this differently but it helps us to be more united in the end. Also I don't get wish's actions there.

 

I think the quoted bit by sili himself is about Talya. Not me. Pretty sure I never attacked Leelou.

[wish-tree]

YEah, you and wish basically ignore each other. heh.

I must admit that I don't read Celeste's posts unless she agrees with me. XD

[wish-tree]

VOTE COUNT

 

Ocicat (3) - Tina, Dice, Verbal

Pral (7) - Leelou, Ocicat, Sooh, Lenlo, WishLESTE, John Snow, Eldrick

Verbal (5) - Talya, Songstress, Sili, KeyBOOSE, Taborline

WishLeste (1) - Mish

 

Not voting (2):  Pralaya

 

9 to lynch

 

DEADLINE IS NOON EASTERN (GMT - 4) ON WEDNESDAY. No Majority = No lynch

 

Correh last reads list.

 

Dark greens: Lenlo, Tress, Mish, John Snow

 

Light towns: me, Dice, Leelou, Sooh, Taborline

 

Nulls: Tina, Ocicat, Talya, Eldrick

 

Scum list: Pral and Verb.

[wish-tree]

Thought some more before falling asleep last night. I'm increasingly worried about Tab. She rarely has interacted with anyone in real time in the game; she posts big ISO's and that's more or less is. I played with her in the HP game and she was much more involved then, she didn't really on only making cases, she posted and argued in real time. Remember who's tutoring her.

 

Also feeling uneasy about Talya. I'd have to ISO to see if I can put my finger on it, and I can say that aint gonna happen. I'm too tired to have the mental capacity. Again I feel like she's just floating by. She didn't fight it when both Pral and Wisheste tried to make a connection between her and me, and I don't like that.

 

And Eld reminded me I still don't like Oci.

 

 

So I'm willing to say at the moment I think our mafia team is Sooh/Verb, Talya, Tab and Oci, and Wisheste as Loki.

 

What about now? :3

[wish-tree]

 

haha, that makes me laugh, I don't care where I am on his list. The reason it caught my attention was because Yates did something similar in a game to try and get town cred when he was mafia. (It was with the cop who had just died), similar situation, and that is why I mentioned it.

Yeah, trying to use the dead cop's reads list to insinuate they must have viewed him isn't that different from what I was doing

 

This bit is what I'm confused about.

[wish-tree]

 

 

 

 

 

haha, that makes me laugh, I don't care where I am on his list. The reason it caught my attention was because Yates did something similar in a game to try and get town cred when he was mafia. (It was with the cop who had just died), similar situation, and that is why I mentioned it.

Yeah, trying to use the dead cop's reads list to insinuate they must have viewed him isn't that different from what I was doing

 

I got burnt that time, and this came across as something similar so calling it out:p

 

@Tress/Talya Is this about Cory's reads?

 

Yes it was

 

Not sure I read all of that argument, but Cory's strong town reads are worth a lot in general

 

BFG and Sooh both value Cory's reads.

[wish-tree]

Got confused and thought it was Tress/Talya who were arguing over Cory's reads because of this post:

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95348-ragnarok-game-thread-d2/?p=3542546

[wish-tree]

Anyway, redoing some thoughts.

 

Scum: John Snow (he's been gone for a long time and I'd like him to post. Feel like he might hammer us during the deadline. Or has he already done that? Prolly.)

BFG (even after all that kerfluffle I threw at her, she remained calm and continued to try to see a situation in which we weren't Mafia/Loki. Also, Sooh didn't look good with sheeping the thread read of Celeste/me as scum.)

Sili (yeah. I'm suspicious of him because he votes us yet sort of defends us against others by mentioning my meta. Regardless what I flip, he'll look good. Don't like that.)

Mish (really don't like her suspicions of Talya and other town. Also don't like her insisting on having her way or calling everyone who doesn't listen not town.)

 

Loki: Lenlo (cute. I don't see how Loki thing is a survivor wincon. Being the last man standing sounds like SK wincon. It would be best to have a gun to be the last man standing.)

 

the rest: town

[Lenlo]

If no one is listening to you perhaps you might give up? You don't even have a wagon?

Are you talking to me? Cause im not sure what this is aimed at/talking about.

 

Anyway, redoing some thoughts.

 

Scum: John Snow (he's been gone for a long time and I'd like him to post. Feel like he might hammer us during the deadline. Or has he already done that? Prolly.)

BFG (even after all that kerfluffle I threw at her, she remained calm and continued to try to see a situation in which we weren't Mafia/Loki. Also, Sooh didn't look good with sheeping the thread read of Celeste/me as scum.)

Sili (yeah. I'm suspicious of him because he votes us yet sort of defends us against others by mentioning my meta. Regardless what I flip, he'll look good. Don't like that.)

Mish (really don't like her suspicions of Talya and other town. Also don't like her insisting on having her way or calling everyone who doesn't listen not town.)

 

Loki: Lenlo (cute. I don't see how Loki thing is a survivor wincon. Being the last man standing sounds like SK wincon. It would be best to have a gun to be the last man standing.)

 

the rest: town

So JS is scum now with me replacing him as Loki? What happened to the RB thing? Or am I now expected to believe that you blocked the one mafia who submitted the kill last night/it randomly landed on the one mafia who submitted the kill last night?

 

This entire list imo looks like one final shot in the dark at finding a dark horse for people to lynch instead of you.

[wish-tree]

 

If no one is listening to you perhaps you might give up? You don't even have a wagon?

Are you talking to me? Cause im not sure what this is aimed at/talking about.

 

Anyway, redoing some thoughts.

 

Scum: John Snow (he's been gone for a long time and I'd like him to post. Feel like he might hammer us during the deadline. Or has he already done that? Prolly.)

BFG (even after all that kerfluffle I threw at her, she remained calm and continued to try to see a situation in which we weren't Mafia/Loki. Also, Sooh didn't look good with sheeping the thread read of Celeste/me as scum.)

Sili (yeah. I'm suspicious of him because he votes us yet sort of defends us against others by mentioning my meta. Regardless what I flip, he'll look good. Don't like that.)

Mish (really don't like her suspicions of Talya and other town. Also don't like her insisting on having her way or calling everyone who doesn't listen not town.)

 

Loki: Lenlo (cute. I don't see how Loki thing is a survivor wincon. Being the last man standing sounds like SK wincon. It would be best to have a gun to be the last man standing.)

 

the rest: town

So JS is scum now with me replacing him as Loki? What happened to the RB thing? Or am I now expected to believe that you blocked the one mafia who submitted the kill last night/it randomly landed on the one mafia who submitted the kill last night?

 

This entire list imo looks like one final shot in the dark at finding a dark horse for people to lynch instead of you.

 

That's okay, whatever you say.

 

*hugs*

<3

[wish-tree]

 

 

If no one is listening to you perhaps you might give up? You don't even have a wagon?

Are you talking to me? Cause im not sure what this is aimed at/talking about.

 

Anyway, redoing some thoughts.

 

Scum: John Snow (he's been gone for a long time and I'd like him to post. Feel like he might hammer us during the deadline. Or has he already done that? Prolly.)

BFG (even after all that kerfluffle I threw at her, she remained calm and continued to try to see a situation in which we weren't Mafia/Loki. Also, Sooh didn't look good with sheeping the thread read of Celeste/me as scum.)

Sili (yeah. I'm suspicious of him because he votes us yet sort of defends us against others by mentioning my meta. Regardless what I flip, he'll look good. Don't like that.)

Mish (really don't like her suspicions of Talya and other town. Also don't like her insisting on having her way or calling everyone who doesn't listen not town.)

 

Loki: Lenlo (cute. I don't see how Loki thing is a survivor wincon. Being the last man standing sounds like SK wincon. It would be best to have a gun to be the last man standing.)

 

the rest: town

So JS is scum now with me replacing him as Loki? What happened to the RB thing? Or am I now expected to believe that you blocked the one mafia who submitted the kill last night/it randomly landed on the one mafia who submitted the kill last night?

 

This entire list imo looks like one final shot in the dark at finding a dark horse for people to lynch instead of you.

 

That's okay, whatever you say.

 

*hugs*

<3

 

And nope. I would say that I'm not an RBer, if this list holds true, which is exactly what you were saying before. :3

[Lenlo]

I honestly have no idea what to say to you anymore. Your jumping between whichever of two realities suit you at the moment you post.

[Sili Quirrels]

Regardless what I flip, he'll look good. Don't like that.

 

wuuuuuuuuuuut XD

[Sili Quirrels]

I don't think that's how 'opportunistically', as you called it, voting someone is supposed to look.

[Sili Quirrels]

Are you talking to me? Cause im not sure what this is aimed at/talking about.

 

@Lenlo, yes to you. You are taking this business waaay too seriously for someone who seems to think Celeste is mafia.

[BFG]

I think I would still enjoy being scum over town BFG. Ill have to wait until I am one and see. :P

happy to hear your soul (probably) remains unpure

[BFG]

 

Sili #350 I don't really like/understand Sili's argument here. Hes there's a lot for Ocicat to comment on at the time of Sili's post but Sili points out that Ocicat hasn't been around for 15 hours... if it's an inactivity comment then there are plenty of people who haven't posted much at this stage, if it's a fluff comment then there are people who have posted fluff. If it's gut then fair enough. Ok he states that Ocicat has been around just not posting, which kind of nulls my thoughts here aannndddd Ocicat posts in response /meh

 

(I'll be honest I'm glad Cory isn't reading Sili town already)

 

@BFG, it seems like you're nursing a scum read of me, but then it imploded, and now it's null. Maybe read the thread?

 

Worth noting that Sili's early read on Celeste seems -ve given his later town read of them (as quoted).

Don't know what you mean.

 

Oh, and about lenlo, as time has gone on I've less and less reason to townread him. I would like to clear him for the early game interaction we had, but that probably wouldn't be intellectually honest.

 

I am reading the thread?

 

As of Page ~20 you were mafia reading Celeste, in the posts that Wish-tree later quoted (dated several days later) you were town reading them both, before mafia reading them (again). At the moment reads changing on people are interesting.

[Niniel]

 

Did an iso of Leelou and will try to do my best to say why I think she is mafia. It´s nothing new (at least not much) but since it doesn´t seem to be clear. 

 

 

1. Leelou voted Cory because he said mafia might have had a qt for days. When Verb asks if it was a possible TMI she agreed. It´s a week vote. She agrees with that later when she says she was just trolling him.

 

2. Then she unvotes him after asking Verb if Cory is town or not. 

 

3. She said she wanted to clear Cory early. 

 

4. Later she said to me that she unvoted him because she has figured out how to read Cory.

 

So it was a week vote from the beginning. She says she has now figured out how to read Cory but in fact she relied on Verb reading him. And then she cleared him. That easy. (I don´t think was even a good read since Cory has acted that way earlier as non town but I´m not sure Leelou played that game.)It sounded fake from the beginning to the end.  

 

 

After this she followed Cory on Pral because she dislikes inactives. Her vote stayed because his list was meh and later she disliked that he wasn´t voting. Many voted Pral so I can´t hold this against her.

 

But she mentioned being happy voting me as well. When Cory asked what she thought of me she said that she had just been skimming but something felt off about me. Since I was the only one focusing on me it really looks like an omgus. 

 

Today she says that she dislikes that I don´t vote her and that I just arbitrary decided she is scum. Which is not true. Has she focused on anyone else today, someone that hasn´t suspected her? No. 

 

To the bold - I did not. Go back and look at that sequence again. Before Verb even posted I had said Cory was town. 

 

To the underlined - I'm reading up now, but I've said a few times over and over again I won't really be around until Sunday. I ISO'd you on Friday when I had 5 mins since you only had 23 posts. 

 

 

Went back to check. You are right, you unvoted Cory before Verb answered. I was wrong about that. Still think it looked too easy - both your vote and unvote. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I missed playing in a game with you, Cory.

 

I'm less than enthused.

 

 

Your words hurt.

 

 

The reason I was concerned about Mafia preparation is because me and Key were given our Hydra QT link when we received our Role PM four days ago and had zero limitations on what we could talk about. I wanted to wait on Kivam to give me permission to say this because it's a grey area. So yes, I am sitting here at work, making sure my boss isn't walking about, having a dumb argument about how I could possibly know anything about off the thread communication and Leelou outright suggesting I am dumb enough to "slip" and reveal I am Mafia who decided to reveal that my team had pre-game chat.

 

So, yes, it got under my skin. I'll get over it, and keep working on my reads and do the best that I can this game in whatever situation I am thrown in. We know I have problems with lack of patience and that I can get momentarily rustled (especially if someone is trying), but again I will get over it and move on.

 

Just annoyed to the point where it's bleeding into RL, but that's definitely my problem so I'll shut up about it.

 

 

Verb - thoughts?

 

Is this a Town!Cory response?

 

 

 

 

Looks to me like a frustrated Cory response. Could be town, since town doesnt have as much a reason to do image control. Im not the best at reading Cory though.................

 

Hence why I asked Verb. :p

 

 

 

 

Ugh I just feel dirty. I don't like having to do the Sisyphus act and I really, really, really would like to do well because I always feel people are at least somewhat relying on me to give it my all and give at least ~moderate strength reads and that's probably just a weird stupid #INFP perception.

 

I just don't know how to process when people give me a hard time for dumb reasons because then I have to think about why they are doing it and what it means and it just adds a whole new level of cluster to an already complicated and difficult game.

 

It's Friday, I should be in a better mood.

 

Hey, I just want to town clear you early. 

 

What are your thoughts on Talya?

 

[unvote]

 

[Niniel]

No where did I say the spoiler was private above. If eldrick was serious about looking for loki as he was at the start of the game, he would have opened the spoiler and read, but instead he pretends to not have read it to avoid suspicion. Maybe he thought, 'if I don't open this then how can I be loki?' I would not be shocked.

 

Anyway, I don't want to risk a lynch for loki, unless he or she outs themselves, so nothing has changed in this regard, but please note that I seriously suspect eldrick is a third party.

 

Moving onward,

 

Tina, why in god's name are mish and tress above me?

 

Because I find them more townie? Mish has been active and pointed out a lot of things that I agree with. I liked Tress´ work with here list and also other things she has said today. 

 

I have already said that I have some problems reading you this game. You are still in my town list.

[BFG]

<snip>

BFG and Sooh both value Cory's reads.

I actually just ISO's Sooh and she doesn't mention Cory's reads. Do you mean Tress?

 

Why wouldn't I value Cory's reads?

[Niniel]

I have read the whole thread but in small pieces at a time so I´m going back to where I left. 

 

Also, Tina, something to think about. Why did it take you this long to notice Verbal? He's like usually your focus. 

 

Yes. I was a little conserned with him on D1 and noted his actions in the situations with you-him-Cory-Talya. I thought you were the one to focus on after that. I said to Cory that I rather vote Verbal over Pral "if I had to choose" between his main candidates. Still thought my vote on Oci was better though. Then he kind of disappeared so I never focused much on him before I saw what others brought up and re-read him. 

 

I think Tina is town, but that she is tilted by leelou which is influencing her read to some extent.

 

I can follow her on her thought process though, and would like to ask lee some of my own questions.

 

Lee, why did you ask verbal what he thought of cory if you had already figured cory out? And cory is quite a complex character, so what made you certain he was town at that point in the game?

 

How do you think my read on Leelou is influencing my other reads? 

 

 

Mostly a copy of my old but moving Verbal down. 

 

Mish

 

Tress

 

Taborline

Sili 

 

Eldrick - I need to take a look at Eldrick. His behaviour today made him look town but I haven´t any memory about what he did yesterday.

Talya - I had a town read on Talya yesterday but need to look her up again because I don´t remember much about what she did in the later part of yesterday. 

Snow - Just like Talya. 

Lenlo - Because everyone seems to town read him. And I haven´t seen anything scummy. 

 

 

Sooh - I have really no memory of her posts what so ever. Update: Too neutral - D1 uncertaintly or trying to stay in the middle? 

 

 

Oci - The one I want to lynch the most. 

Leelou 

Wish/Celeste - I should take a look at their list once again.

Verbal

 

These all feel like safe reads. She's misclearing at least 2 people. 

 

 

I don´t know in what way these are safe reads. Of course I could be misclearing people. And I doubt all four of my red is mafia. I don´t know any of their alignments so I can´t make good connections between them either. I just have to go with what I think right now. 

 

Tina - why I've been focusing on you is because of the way you are handling me. TBH if you have me as a scum read no way you don't actually go after me and not vote me. Ocicat is an easy vote as far as I can see. They've been playing awkwardly. Verbal and I would be way better people to be trying to lynch from your perspective if you thought we were scum. 

[Niniel]

Posted too soon. To the last quote - do you want me to vote you? Does Oci have a better role than you? Oci has been my main suspect so far and so I vote him. Might change today though.

 

 

About Oci: I looked at Tress´ chart again. A lot of people suspected Oci yesterday. It was only Celeste that townread him. But today most people don´t mention him at all. I find that strange.