[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[Andrej]

@AJ and Talya - I swear to all that is holy that if you don't stop with the reposting the entire game crap I'm going to institute a lynch all wot-ers policy!

 

Seriously, neither of you has added anything new or constructive to the game with those posts. And as people in perpetual catch up mode, you'd think you'd want to reduce the clutter? How about rather than commenting on EVERYTHING, you just come up with two people each that you are going to consider voting. Deadline is closer than you think and we don't have time to wade through all the static you are creating.

 

Please? And thank you?

 

Deadline isn't THAT close, I still have the rest of tonight and tomorrow to catch up.

 

I can understand the want for less clutter, but I like doing my catch ups in this manner. I don't really agree with what you say about adding nothing new or constructive to the game. Think of me as a sub - I'm looking over everything with fresh eyes again and can potentially spot things that other missed.

 

What's your beef with me getting dug in?

[Andrej]

Back from dinner, btw.

 

Gonna be around for the rest of the night of the most part, so back to rereading.

 

Gonna make the WOTs extra long now just to piss Yates off

[Kivam]

OKay, nothing new to go on, so me... I am going to try to leave the thread for others to share their thoughts.

 

But just one more thing, AJ retracting/clarifying his suspicion of Kivam so quickly after Hallia supported his approach means he is like to be town imo.

 

Wut? 

[Yates]

Think of me as a sub - I'm looking over everything with fresh eyes again and can potentially spot things that other missed.

 

What's your beef with me getting dug in?

I have no beef with you getting dug in. I just don't need your dirt on my nicely manicured lawn. I'm asking you to at least keep it limited to the dandelions that we haven't already been uprooted. I haven't seen either of you find a new dandelion yet despite the mess you are making. Follow?

[Andrej]

Retract FoS on AJ.  Return to null.  Stage 1 continues.

 

[Andrej]

I have no beef with you getting dug in. I just don't need your dirt on my nicely manicured lawn. I'm asking you to at least keep it limited to the dandelions that we haven't already been uprooted. I haven't seen either of you find a new dandelion yet despite the mess you are making. Follow?

 

Yeah, I follow. I'm also like 50 pages behind - so gimme a bit to mesh through the weeds first.

 

Capiche?

[Kivam]

 

Between the Kiv sass and Mish's defensiveness, that is the way to go for now until I see anything better.

 

 

Vote: Kiv/Mish

+1

 

 

This becomes a theme.  On the other hand, there really wasn't much else going on in the thread to this point.  Null for laine; mild scum lean for Hally given the prior post

 

[Kivam]

 

Between the Kiv sass and Mish's defensiveness, that is the way to go for now until I see anything better.

 

 

Vote: Kiv/Mish

 

 

 

Between the Kiv sass and Mish's defensiveness, that is the way to go for now until I see anything better.

 

 

Vote: Kiv/Mish

+1

 

 

i dont mind this at all atp.  wanna see more from them before id place a vote there.

 

 

Going to [unvote] based on this post.  I've been reading Zander's push on me as opportunistic, especially given what I (and others) have been reading as a misrep on the AtE issue.  But this post suggests otherwise.

 

(How do you like them dandelions, Yates?)

 

[Yates]

(How do you like them dandelions, Yates?)

Acceptable. Or an excuse to get off a weak push.

[Kivam]

 

[v]AJ[/v]. Will be my policy lynch choice unless something significantly better comes along. Yes, i am still very, very pissed. Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

Because I feel like this is an easy way for that slot to hop on a player and sit there, boasting of a 'grudge.'

 

 

This post, made all of 10 hours after my opening vote, is pretty damn gross.  @Hally - if you actually believed that would be a scumtell, why not wait to see if it played out that way before scumreading based on this theory?

[Kivam]

I'm not liking Hallia's reaction towards Kivam/Mish.  She brought up two reasons for voting them - Kivam's policy lynch vote for Andrej and Mish's defensiveness regarding her response to Laine's proposal to lynch all hydras.  Hallia addressed the part about the policy lynch - because she feels it's an easy way to hop on and stay on Andrej's train.  I'm neutral on that response - it is, but it really only works for day 1.  But what about the part regarding Mish?  She changed their vote, and while it did come across as defensive, you can't say that Kivam/Mish's vote has stayed parked on one person as Hallia is claiming it would be easy to do.

 

Between the Kiv sass and Mish's defensiveness, that is the way to go for now until I see anything better.

 

 

Vote: Kiv/Mish

 

 

Then ....

 

So if you drew town you might do it, only to unvote later, or not do it at all, and say 'Oh hey, just kidding lul'

 

but you did it, and for now my vote stays.

 

@Razen - Have you seen anythign better?  He didn't move it.  I know that his partner did, but it stands out to me as scummy.

 

This entire line of reasoning is just so off, especially given the actual sequence of events.

 

I posted my vote at 1:03am.

 

Roughly 7 hours later, Mish moves the vote:

 

[unvote]

Don't worry AJ, I gotcha, no vendettas plz hydra.

 

Hi wish-tree and Celeste! Is it ok if I call you Wish and Cel? *lazy*

 

 

I feel like Alanna set up the possibility for herself in case of being mafia to go after the hydras in signups... Granted, it's been a while since I've played, but I didn't think #lynchallhydras ever got any one anywhere. Seems like a cheap way to set ut lynches.

 

[v] Alanna [/v]

 

I respond to that discussion right after that, and don't move the vote back to AJ

 

Actually, mish, there is a logic (to cut down on game bloat) that is good enough to start with, since it's not mathematically worse than any other random group of players. ......................and for us, it's actually mathematically better, since we'd be looking for 2 scum out of seven hydras - a 29% chance - instead of 5 scum in 19 players (a 26% chance). Of course, that assumes an even distribution, but if we're going to look at a random pool of 8, I'd rather it be one we're in rather than one we're not Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

And then an hour later, Hally drops a vote on us and engages in the above conversation with Razen, in which literally nothing she says justifies her vote bears any relationship to what actually happened.

[Kivam]

 

Razen plays on the BT SG, and is a pretty great player imo.

Thanks, Hally. Anyone I know that you could compare him to?

 

Also, I like you so far this game. Please don't be scum.

 

 

@Yates - given the above ... what did you like about Hally at that point?

[Yates]

Okay, in keeping with my newly instituted open hand policy....

 

Given Mish's vote on Team Derp boiled down to this:

So, your reasons for calling us mafia is non-existant. I tried to point it out to you, and you have ignored me and kept your vote. That makes me think you are mafia. I unvoted you because I wanted to see how you responded, and I'm massivly underwhelmed. So I will [v] Zeph[/v]

I actually really wanted her to respond to this:

@Mish - "So I will Vote: Zeph" Is he "ignoring premises that could lead to troublesome conclusions?"

Your unvote pretty much makes this moot now but I wanted to hear from her[or you] if the main reason you were voting for Team Derp was because Zander was unwilling to process new information. Here's some meta on Zander; he pretty much doesn't bother processing new information from someone he's suspecting. I worked really REALLY hard as scum to get him to change his mind with lots of fake good reasons. What it takes is someone he trusts or is Town reading strongly to restate that information before he'll bother to entertain it if his sights are set on you. Even then, it's a 50/50 proposition. I'm not saying this to give Zander a pass to tunnel. I'm saying this because you shouldn't use that as a PRIMARY reason to scum read him.

[Yates]

@Yates - given the above ... what did you like about Hally at that point?

That was a billion posts ago... IIRC I don't think I'm going to say anything that hasn't already been said. Hally was being ACTIVE and sharp and inquisitive. If you REALLY need me to post quote and comment, I'll do it. But I'll hate you.

[Yates]

Kiv - quick example: look at post 209 and pretend she isn't talking about you. That doesn't look like scum spin to me. That looks like someone with a legit concern and an obvious and reasonable observation. I remember agreeing with her at the time.

[Kivam]

Okay, in keeping with my newly instituted open hand policy....

 

Given Mish's vote on Team Derp boiled down to this:

So, your reasons for calling us mafia is non-existant. I tried to point it out to you, and you have ignored me and kept your vote. That makes me think you are mafia. I unvoted you because I wanted to see how you responded, and I'm massivly underwhelmed. So I will [v] Zeph[/v]

I actually really wanted her to respond to this:

@Mish - "So I will Vote: Zeph" Is he "ignoring premises that could lead to troublesome conclusions?"

Your unvote pretty much makes this moot now but I wanted to hear from her[or you] if the main reason you were voting for Team Derp was because Zander was unwilling to process new information. Here's some meta on Zander; he pretty much doesn't bother processing new information from someone he's suspecting. I worked really REALLY hard as scum to get him to change his mind with lots of fake good reasons. What it takes is someone he trusts or is Town reading strongly to restate that information before he'll bother to entertain it if his sights are set on you. Even then, it's a 50/50 proposition. I'm not saying this to give Zander a pass to tunnel. I'm saying this because you shouldn't use that as a PRIMARY reason to scum read him.

 

 

Primary reason for me was what I saw as an opportunistic push on a player taking a lot of heat for flawed reasons.  It's what Mish and I have been discussing in our QT, as well.  Going back and seeing that post from Zander is going to make me look at the whole thing with fresh eyes; I may end up putting the vote back there, but as of right now and on this reread Hally is much more likely to get my vote.  Kind of eye-opening, actually; she wasn't even on my radar when I signed off on Friday

 

[Kaylee]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Sephander (4): ClovFG, John Snow, Wombicat, Lenlo

Kivish (5): Hallia, Nyce, Zander/Seph, Shad, Sili

Lenlo (2): CorKey, Razen

John Snow (1): Pral

Laine (1): Yates

 

 

Not Voting (6): Csarmi, Talya, Wish/Celeste, Nolderf, Laine, AJ

 

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

[Yates]

Probably my last post for tonight unless anyone has any other specific questions for me. Otherwise I'm going to finish this delicious Allagash Black while watching the latest episode of Ballers [which I do not recommend].

[Yates]

Going back and seeing that post from Zander is going to make me look at the whole thing with fresh eyes; I may end up putting the vote back there, but as of right now and on this reread Hally is much more likely to get my vote.  Kind of eye-opening, actually; she wasn't even on my radar when I signed off on Friday

Wasted vote imo. Do me a favor and take a look at Lainey in ISO if you get a chance. I might have to rebuild my post I had on her. And that's going to suck. And likely won't happen until Monday. And that will probably be too late... :/

[Andrej]

Generally I would say Kivam unvoting to make himself the lead wagon is villagery, but I just witnessed him self-hammer as scum so idk

 

/kayneshrug

[Yates]

Generally I would say Kivam unvoting to make himself the lead wagon is villagery, but I just witnessed him self-hammer as scum so idk

 

/kayneshrug

^^Dandelion.

[Kivam]

Kiv - quick example: look at post 209 and pretend she isn't talking about you. That doesn't look like scum spin to me. That looks like someone with a legit concern and an obvious and reasonable observation. I remember agreeing with her at the time.

 

OK, pretending she's not talking about me, and she's instead talking about someone (Player A) who:

 

A) Announced in the signup thread he'd be voting for Player X out of the gate for extra-game reasons (i.e. the vote itself is not and cannot be alignment indicative);

 

B) Followed through with a vote at 1a.m. immediately after the thread opened (and then presumably went to bed after his post at 1:23am, which is his last until just after 7:00am that day)

 

C) Came back into the thread and engaged in actual game related posting at 7:00am (the LAH discussion)

 

D) Had a hydra-partner (Player A1) unvote at 10 to 8:00 am to move the vote to another player, and

 

E) Chose not to revote Player X immediately afterwards, despite posting in response to the moved vote ...

 

Then no, I don't see how it's reasonable to be concerned an hour later that Player A may be planning to leave his vote on Player X all game day long because Player A1 (as opposed to Player A) did the unvoting.  Aside from the ridiculousness of the timing, it assumes that Player A has a brilliant plan to hide as scum that he chose not to share with his hydra partner, Player A1, leading to Player A1's plan shattering unvote, which - like most everything else in post 209 - makes no sense at all.

 

What am I missing?

[Yates]

What am I missing?

You are assuming people read the sign up thread.

 

I generally don't, for example.

[Yates]

Also, I got confused by your algebra there.

[Andrej]

Ditto regarding the signup thread. I don't think that's a good defense, however. You should know that sort of vote doesn't have anything to do with this game - your saving grace is the fact that Mish voted someone else and you didn't return to it.

 

Also - I don't think any of those points make Hallia scum in a nutshell. She's sensitive to that sort of "bad blood" type of play, if you wanna call it that. Her reaction to you is pretty natural for her imo.