[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[Hallia]

The time I had to attempt to catch up went to stupid drama >.<  At least it's still night.  

[Andrej]

I didn't know we can still post in thread. This is different then my home site.

 

Nights are typically open here unless the setup calls specifically for it now.

 

In Vanilla games with a Seer, it would be locked - but otherwise you can chatter away.

[Celeste]

 

I didn't know we can still post in thread. This is different then my home site.

 

 

Nights are typically open here unless the setup calls specifically for it now.

 

In Vanilla games with a Seer, it would be locked - but otherwise you can chatter away.

Interesting. I'm glad Lenlo flipped scum!

[Andrej]

Interesting. I'm glad Lenlo flipped scum!

 

Lenlol imo

[Andrej]

Going back to where I was this morning and gonna reread EOD with Len's flip in mind.

 

Should be enlightening.

[Andrej]

Btw Celeste I still wanna know why you thought I was scum D1.

[Hallia]

Read as far back as the flip.  I think it's ldo that I was wrong on Kivam, and that warrants a total reread that I just don't have the energy for.  I think it also clears Sephander, as scum would've pushed for him as well.

[Hallia]

Not surprised that Lenlo flipped scum, I think he's cursed to always be scum or third party.

[Celeste]

Btw Celeste I still wanna know why you thought I was scum D1.

It was a gut read mainly especially since you were posting so little at first. Now I sort of have you at null/slight town. I like the points you raise but I still don't know what to think yet.

[Andrej]

 

Didnt say scum, said you were one of the better lynchs for the day and then voted for someone I felt was worse.

 

 

QFE

[Hallia]

Slight town? Aj was and still reads to me as town.

[Andrej]

She doesn't know me like you do, HalliBoo.

[csarmi]

She doesn't know me like you do, HalliBoo.

But she don't know you like I know you Slim, no one does

She don't know what it was like for people like us growing up

You gotta call me man, I'll be the biggest fan you'll ever lose

Sincerely yours, Stan

[Andrej]

Don't mind the WOT.

[csarmi]

There's a WOT coming up?

 

*puts shield up*

[csarmi]

Hey Hally are you a villager?

 

---

I'll try to continue catching up from work but I'm busy again in the evening, we are playing EarthDawn. I hope night lasts long.

[Andrej]

Decided just to do this in chunks instead of spoiler-ing the entire thing. Might make it easier to respond to for some, hopefully.

 

[unvote]
[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

 

Pivotal vote. This pushed Lenlo into a tie with Kivam, for reference.

 

He is probably the worst lynch possible regardless of content and hr doesn't seem to care if what he posts is popular. No blending in whatsoever (proof for that even i took notice of him despite me skimming the weekend).

 

Bad Csarmander.

 

It was part of his WoT, and understandably easy to miss. But it's there, so I don't see anything fishy about "as I said previously".

Another issue with him is that wtl AJ was too convenient, because AJ had recently been the subject of conversation. I'm not really sold on that in isolation because a lot of players had been the subject of scrutiny at that point in the game, and a similar point could have been made if he'd wtl them.  The problem seems to extend from his lack of explanation--but he did give an explanation, people just didn't see it buried in a wall of text.

The main problem for me is that what Lenlo said about AJ apparently didn't apply at the time, and he's since claimed he meant someone else but doesn't remember who. And that does bug me, because while I've honestly forgotten what a lot of players have said in this game, I remember my gut feel about them. Lenlo's talking about an information lynch though, not a scum read lynch, so maybe? it's an honest mistake. I don't know. I want to check and see if Lenlo brought this up himself or if he was called out on it first.  That's not an easy chore because Lenlo makes the original post on p55 and the correction comes on p100...  If Lenlo brought it up himself, it doesn't look as bad imo.

 

I definitely think he's a suspect. Not completely sold on lynching him yet.

 

Meh, I have to take off for a while and won't be back until after deadline.  I'm not quite as informed as I would like to be, but here's where I stand.  A lot of people are saying Mish looked town.  I've never played with her before, but I thought she looked scummiest of the lot, and I'm going with how I feel here.  I expect Kivam to be able to change his game up from one to the next and the fact that he doesn't look the same as his last scum game does not make me automatically town read him.  Mish might have withdrawn, but the slot is the same.  [v]Kivam[/v]

 

Noticed some people talking about Shad looking bad after Len's flip - which he does in a generic sense cause ~wagonomics. That said, I don't mind these two posts. The bolded part in the top vote regarding Len is pretty fair analysis imo and like I stated before, he seems to be looking at things without bias. I can't fault him for not being completely sure, because frankly, I don't think any of us were 100%. Or shouldn't have been, anyway.

 

In the second quote, at least he's being consistent with his read here. I realize it looks ~bad since he went back to Kivam with Len on the chopping block (possibly tying them again? I don't remember) but his explanations are at least plausible imo.

[Andrej]

ok how about everyone/someone else?  you have any more thoughts.  seems like you're kinda slithering through this all.  you finish reading yet....?

 

Amusing and interesting characterization all at the same time.

 

Decent reads, but I disagree with ClovFG, Zeph, Hally, Kiv, and wish tree/Celeste

 

Where would you have put them?

 

FTR, I am ok with Lenlo being lazy and enigmatic, but his confused AJ with someone else thing is pretty bad, especially coming right after pressure had been mounting on him regarding his AJ comments.  It looks like he fabricated an opinion on AJ and instead of admitting to it is trying to say it was really an opinion on someone else (who shall remain unnamed).

 

Bold is fair. I wouldn't say I'm okay with the first part in a general sense, but it's true enough regarding Lenlo playstyle.

 

I don't mind info lynches if they are legit, but just saying that someone gives info because he/she interacted a lot is faulty.  Info lynches should always be applied to certain slots over others, but not in the way that you mean it.  They should be applied to slots where you have a concrete idea of exactly what info you are going to get (i.e. conditional associative reads), not just "oh this lynch gives generic infoz."

 

I get the explanation for why some slots are better than others as info lynches - but the point I was making is (especially with Lenlo flipped) that it's troubling to me that he would apply it towards me/Zeph and yet ignore Kivam on the same premise. Not a good look with Kivam in the lead at the time.

 

This is the problem I have. And I wouldn't have even thought that was too big of a deal because, as BFG alluded to, it could have *possibly* been a screw up because AJ was fresh on his mind BECAUSE OF the recent conversation. BUT - and this is where it gets sketchy - I pressed him several times on who he claims to have actually meant. He just says "I forget but not rereading to tell you." Key basically restates my concern here in that you would EXPECT someone to remember one of TWO scum suspects. And if he had said Sili and meant Seph? Whatever. I've made mistakes like that. But I'm hard pressed to imagine a scenario where you confuse AJ with someone else in this game.

 

Solid post.

 

[V]Zander/Seph[/v]

 

Not voting the other two trains.

 

#Csarmi

 

Whick is more likely mafia, Vsarmi?

 

lolautocorrect

[csarmi]

Alright AJ, there must have been quite a few worse lynches :)

 

But that's easy to say with the flip known. I still think Lenlo is a bad D1 lynch and I thought him to be >rand to be a villager.

[Andrej]

Gotta ask one last time: anyone willing to CFD Hallia?

 

Didn't like this post initially, but it doesn't look as bad in conjunction with the explanation below.

 

Because she initially placed her vote on me 8 hrs into the game on the theory that I was trying to park my vote and slide through the day, which would be scummy of me ... and has since parked her vote on me and slid through the day.

 

There are other bells and whistles to it - check out my recap post about the problems with her "he's parking his vote!" argument in and of itself - but that's the bottom line, IMO.

 

You're consistent, at least.

 

I don't care that he wanted to lynch someone for an info lynch even if I disagree with it. If I lynched people just because I don't like their logic these games would be really really short. My thing is I want to know if that person actually believes what they are saying. Lenlo doesn't pass the eye test in this regard.

 

Mhmm. Another solid post

 

Is it just me or do we have a lot of stale parked votes?

 

Like who?

 

-snip-

 

I got this weird/paranoid ping when I saw Razen's post here in context with the current state of the thread. I mentioned earlier that I don't know him as a player and that if he'd be capable of such analysis as scum - but the sudden realization came to mind that *IF* he was, the way he's going about doing individual ISOs would be a good way to blend in. He's not really involved with the current discussion, and instead adding filler with these 'investigations' (if you will) to keep himself busy.

 

Idk - but it's a thought that crossed my mind. Could be something, probably nothing though. 

 

Driving back north for reasons but I should be back soon

 

Would guess Salami is a villager, so we can safely ignore all of his opinions

 

Ywyw

 

Feeling the same at this point.

 

Not going to CFD onto Csarmi. Same argument as before; just because you don't like his logic doesn't mean he doesn't believe it. Still want to see him caught up and more invested, though.

 

Agreed.

 

In other news...

 

@AJ? WE RIDE!

 

AJ now conf Town.

 

 

Okay - going back I think this flip looks bad for Shad. Not great for Csarmi, either.

 

Not great, yeah. Worthy D2 pursuits imo but I don't have the feeling either are scum. Check out the Shad posts I quoted and let me know what you think?

 

Agree on Shad.  Null on Csarmi ... he could have easily voted for me to save Lenlo if he were scum.

 

Also, the way Zander bounced his vote around just wiped out all the good feelings I had about him after my reread.  I don't buy that he missed the "plurality lynch" rule, after it was brought up in thread multiple times, including in a discussion with him and all-caps-and-bold right before the deadline.  If that's right, moving the vote to Lenlo instead of me looks like an awkward effort to avoid being on the competing lynch when a teammate went down.

 

Bold is fair.

 

Probably putting too much weight into the confusion on Zander's part though. It looks weird, sure, but it doesn't negate the fact Lenlo tried to slime his way onto Zeph's wagon for bad logic. That for some reason didn't apply to you - btw. Kind of null because I can see it both ways, but worth noting.

[Andrej]

 

I must have missed this. What was the Bert stare?

 

???

Is this another football thing.

 

 

Perfection.

 

 

Someone better make it sultry

 

I have removed one sock... Argyle...

 

 

 

 

???

 

 

Laine, did you ever get around to checking Lenlo out?

 

I got halfway through Nolderf before falling asleep which sucks, I know, but I didn't have time to finish. I wanted to case that slot first as an alternative to Len, who I thought was borderline twtbw while he was getting all those votes

 

Tbf this thought crossed my mind too at one point.

 

yates questioning/pushing looks good, I like his prodding of leno, and alanna

bfg ties the votes with kiv, then later callls him null?

aj nudges lenlo but doesnt vote.

 

Pardon?

 

Not going to apologize for updating my reads based on new content, Cory.  Lenlo is a wolfy villager and you know that.  Remember that time on VS when I was mason lovers with him and I was one of the only people who didn't want to lynch him?  IIRC, your wolf team ended up killing me for that.  That's the kind of town play I expect on a routine basis from Lenlo, so it's really hard to scumread him, especially on D1.  The backtrack on AJ was what put me over the edge into WTL territory on him.  I wasn't confident at all that he was scum, but saw him as a better lynch than Kivam.

 

I'm okay with Wombat's explanation here.

[csarmi]

I guess some people are just much better than me finding wolves early. I keep saying WTF how did that happen lately.

 

Yea I WILL stick to finding the villagers, least I'm halfway decent in that.

[Andrej]

Alright AJ, there must have been quite a few worse lynches :)

 

But that's easy to say with the flip known. I still think Lenlo is a bad D1 lynch and I thought him to be >rand to be a villager.

 

Yes it is.

 

Fwiw I don't think you're scum at this point, but would still like to see you dig in more.

[csarmi]

Haha me too. Gimme a day or two. I really should get back to working. I just love talking too much.

[csarmi]

@AJ - and yes your format is much more user friendly this way.