[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[dicetosser1]

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.  

 

sometimes true. also true is that you often doubt me when you are mafia.

[dicetosser1]

as for activity    even I have a life occasionally. 

 

 

BFG you gotta have things to comment on to make comments. I havent understood a lot of what kivs been going at  i commented on seph cause he was a hot topic and other then that this games been fairly bland for me.

[Kivam]

Catching up.  I see from the opening posts that Tina is a dead townie; that wasn't anywhere near on the radar when I signed off for Shabbos so I'm going to read through the thread and react to posts as I see them to see if that helps make sense of it.
 

 

 

ehh, I think you spilling the beans, had the dissuade factor. not sooh, nudging shad.

 
All due respect, Seph, this is silly.  Once Player A (Shad) has gotten pressure for voting Player X (You), Player X is no longer low hanging fruit and a cautious mafioso isn't going to come piling on to a bandwagon.
 
 
 

 

@BFG, because the "0-2" implies an assumption that they were actually attempted reads - i.e that darthe is town Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I really dislike this post by kiv.
darthe posted them, so they are reads. apparently something you forgot while interpreting my post for me is MAFIA have to make reads as well!
I never once have called darthe town, and no it does NOT imply that.
[unvote]
[v] kiv[/v]

 

 
And this is also silly.  (Not the vote, but the thought process).  Mafia members don't make or post "reads".  Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum).  But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

 

 
I disagree. 1) townies dont know who the scum are. some people   and this relates to your confirmed townies call list thing   want people to give their reads so they can hold them to those and use it as a baseline to watch how they develop/change etc. therefore scum need to give reads to appear like everyone else. 2) Scum still have to make reads. how else do they pick out the cop/doc/whateva before a claim? 3) if you make no reads in thread  or you fencesit on reads all the time  you get lynched. therefore scum make reads to avoid getting lynched.
 
the difference is they make informed reads and those are often fairly consensus. Every single scum in the game is gonna town reqad BFG fro eg
 
re mafia knowing alignments   in this game you are correct but not in all games. the dont know roles however and thats what they are looking for
 
 
what concerns me is I think you know this. I shouldnt have to tell you this

 

This reads to me like deliberate misinterpretation and spin.
 
1) Everyone claims to be making alignment reads.  But only townies actually make alignment reads.  Scum fake alignment reads.  That's not a distinction without a difference; inconsistencies and other nuances are key to identifying fake reads and catching scum.
 
2) Equivocation.  Alignment reads and role reads are two completely different things.  And in a game like this, with only a 1x cop and no doc (and yes, until proven otherwise I'm assuming scum didn't do something stupid with their role selections), role reads aren't as important for scum until much closer to endgame.
 
3) "therefore scum make reads to avoid getting lynched."  No. No, no, no, no, no.  Scum fake reads to avoid getting lynched.
 
4) "the difference is they make informed reads and those are often fairly consensus. Every single scum in the game is gonna town reqad BFG fro eg".  Sure.  Because I guarantee you BFG is the N1 kill if she's actually a townie.  Clear consensus town, not a whiff of suspicion headed her way - and that means that unless she's scum, scum have no reason at all to keep her around.  Of course, that could lead to a WIFOM, and you all know how much I love those when I play as scum, but that doesn't seem to be the way most of DM plays as scum these days from what I've seen, so ... yeah.  I'm assuming BFG isn't going to be around very long.
 
5) "re mafia knowing alignments   in this game you are correct but not in all games. the dont know roles however and thats what they are looking for" This, right here, was the pingiest of all parts of your post.  So I'm right about scum knowing alignments in this game (which is the one we're currently playing) but you're looking to argue with me about whether that's true in all games?  Who the hell cares?  If this was a mafia theory thread that would be a really excellent point - but in a game thread, where all you should be caring about is how to approach this game we are currently playing, it makes no difference at all.  This reads like pure spin and an attempt to throw as much suspicion at me before deadline on a D1 where you know I can't come back and respond before getting lynched.  I have no idea yet how close that came, but it's scummy as hell and you are immediately at the top of my personal suspect pile.
 

 

 

And BFG is looking good, loving the questioning

 
I agree with this ... which makes me think BFG is likely dead tonight.
 
Interesting strategy question - in a game like this, with likely no doctor, is announcing our town reads a particularly good play?

 

 
as above  yes  gives a baseline to look at people on. If i list BFG as town then suddenly start voring her for no apparent reason i get questions to answer as to why. this allows people to get a bead on me.

 

Again, pingy as hell.  In a game with no doctor, consensus townies - which are the most important players to have alive at endgame - are dead meat.  Easy kill targets, to make LYLO and MYLO go better for scum.  Personally, I'm going to treat this game like my Avatar game - I'll be coming after even the people I think are the clearest townies because I want to give them a bit of cover.  I think we all ought to be identifying our scumreads and shutting the hell up about who we're most certain is town.  It's going to be a hell of a lot harder for scum to identify and kill consensus townies if we do it that way - and the "of course we should be naming townies" response from you (and Laine) could very easily be scum trying to ensure a clean kill list.  Do. Not. Like.
 

[Kivam]

@Kiv - I see the benefit in posting both, and think it's pretty important

 

In a normal game, where there may be a doc and scum have to balance the risk of shooting the obvious target against the possibility that the doc will protect that same "obvious target", sure. Especially if you have a standard cop who may end up clearing 2 or 3 townies when they reveal, making one "consensus townie" a hell of a lot less important to kill than an unrevealed power role.

 

We have no doc.  Naming consensus townies doesn't create a WIFOM for scum, and it doesn't make them weigh any risks.  It just says "please kill this person, because if they survive to a 3 person endgame, town wins".  And we have only a 1x cop, so at best we're going to be either down 1 scum or up 1 townie when the cop reveals (and unless that's at endgame, scum will simply kill them in the ensuing nights), so there's no reason for scum not to kill the consensus townies.

 

Am I really the only one who sees this?

 

[Kivam]

 

 

Just quickly;

 

@Kivam - I read Tommy's basic game (I am well aware how long ago it was ) during it you spent a lot of your non-recap posts debating game mechanics in as much as good and bad ways to play. Basically you were interacting but not doing anything, if that makes sense? You were pushing an INFO lynch over a low poster lynch. This game you're accepting of different play styles and seemingly working with/round them. Against that (for example) that post of Sephs where you isolate a word from the phrase or where you quote Tina's vote bit ignore her post beforehand that 'explains' it.

 

Essentially your play 'style' seems more townie, but I'm wary because I'm not sure if you're genuinely interpreting the posts the way you say, or if you're trying to twist the way you present the information.

 

In Tommy's game, the mechanics were very much an issue. In this game, we know what we're dealing with (and we can assume that we're looking at 3 of the following 4 town roles: Vig, IC, Cop, Tracker; it would take a very ballsy scum team to deliberately include a JK role that could block their kills).

 

In terms of the "info" question, look at my play today again and think it through.  I always want to develop information on D1 that I can use for later analysis.  That's been my play all day today, from the Seph push and trap to the Tina/Hallia pressure (had Hallia not posted content before I unvoted Tina, I would have moved my vote to her; getting them into the thread was the goal of identifying them as my favorite lynch targets).

 

In terms of twisting ... that's just not something I do when I'm scum, and something I do rarely when I'm town.  Leelou or Talya (who've both played with me a lot, as town or scum), can tell you that.  It's too easy to cast suspicion based on taking what people say at face value and then identifying the angles (pretty much anything anyone says in the game can have a town or scum motivation, even if it's only "trying to seem townie") to risk deliberately misinterpreting a townie's post when I'm scum.  And obviously, when I'm town, deliberately misinterpreting posts isn't a useful play unless it's as a trap, and that hasn't been my play thus far in this game.  So if I'm misinterpreting anything at all, it's straight up misinterpreting, rather than deliberate twisting.

 

 

Does not compute.

 

 

You seem like a pretty intelligent player so I have a hard time believing that.  As a townie, I'll occasionally push a case I know is bad in order to see who else follows it, and then vote that player as likely opportunistic scum.  To make it work, I'll include an obvious and deliberate misinterpretation of the casee's post, since the harder it is to ignore how bad the case is, the more likely anyone taking it at face value and pushing it forward is scum.  The fact that you didn't get that is a red flag.

 

[Kivam]

Kiv, explain to me how you "trapped" Seph in a way that did not at any point intentionally misinterpret what he had to say.

 

Now this would definitely qualify as a deliberate misinterpretation, since I've been pretty damn clear that the trap was for later potential bandwagon jumpers, not Seph.  There was never a trap for Seph, since the vote on him to start was a straight vote, and only morphed into a trap for bandwagon jumpers once he posted a credible explanation for the things I found suspicious.

 

[Kivam]

PART 2

 

 

I will state this for you all.

I voted darthe because I think k tayla, and leelou could be town. 

I didn't want my soulread to be 0% 

 

It was not a serious vote. Shad, why did you think it was serious?

He had two posts in the game, I would have the same %chance to vote anyone else in the game.

I feel like this is a backtracking post.

 

Leelou, I was voting darthe to get a reaction out of him, plain and simple.

 

0% the soul read was simply for fun, ad i figured by placing a vote, referencing it people wouod realize it as a joke. Which most did mind you.

It's page 7...point me to somone who is actively scum hunting with only half the game checked in leelou.

The reactions I got towards the post however, will help towards hunting.

 I didn't get a joke feel from your original post, so I'm a little lost there. Also, if was for reactions and not lulz, why call it a joke?

 

Quoted part of the post here:

suck at reading leelou, but her posts are fine. If she Is mafia, and darthe is town, I will the the cfd to him :)

Tayla I want to believe you are town! But if that is the case I think I need to give it another 15 games before I soulread again...

Vote: darthe the soulread couldn't have been all wrong :(

You're pretty much doing nothing to show town leans on Leelou or Talya, but it feels like you're serious with your reads. Then you vote Darthe basically from POE of your original three. It's the juxtaposition of you more seriously saying that the former two are coming off more town, but then you claim Darthe's portion is "not serious". You're kinda contradicting yourself here

 

 

Leelou, I was voting darthe to get a reaction out of him, plain and simple.

 

0% the soul read was simply for fun, ad i figured by placing a vote, referencing it people wouod realize it as a joke. Which most did mind you.

It's page 7...point me to somone who is actively scum hunting with only half the game checked in leelou.

The reactions I got towards the post however, will help towards hunting.

Red is reasonable. Green really isn't when you are someone who I know makes serious votes early in a game without much to back them. If you're town, try to keep in mind that it's ok to look derpy sometimes even if you really aren't. This reads to me like you're digging for an out rather than explaining your thought process.

 

I'm trying to get a feel for Shad here, it almost feels like he knows Seph's alignment with this post and that bothers me.

 

Getting the game going, and getting reactions is scummy?

Maybe you need to post a play by play again, on how I should play the game.

 

Shad, why are you giving me a pass here?

Darthe you vote to get a reaction I believe. And did you just call me scummy, but not scummy?? Why are you not voting me?

 

You think this is going to get me killed?? Trust me I'm not letting anyone mislynch me this game, unless I take down. Wolf or two in the process.

To you I say, glgl.

 

Keeping my vote on darthe for fence sitting.

Scummy post. Way too reactive, imo

 

I'm guessing you don't like that I didn't vote you yet. I suspect that, had I voted you, you wouldn't like that either. Stupid games like this get what they ask for. [v]Seph[/v]

This is not the Shad I'm looking for.

 

I'm going to [v]unvote[/v]. Seph's reaction to pressure seemed believable to me. I'm still concerned by the potential TMI slip more than anything, so I'm not exactly tossing Seph into the townpile, but it's not enough to justify a bandwagon this early.

 

That said, I'm pretty annoyed by the pressure Shad is getting for his vote ... was hoping to see another few people hop onto the Seph lynch when it seemed like low hanging fruit before unvoting. That won't be happening now.

So far I think that Seph has been really erratic for him, so that's strange in itself. The backtracking is what's bothering me right now. I do want an answer on that TMI because I'm not seeing it, so I'm probably leaning scummy town at most right now. As for Shad, his vote is strange and I feel that it is outside of his town meta. I normally wouldn't bring up meta because I have a hatred of it in it's general sense, but being that Shad has been ONLY town since he started playing the Aliens game makes anything abnormal easy to point out.

 

I wont be voting seph today and im actually pretty close to leaning town on him. Based off what i learnt about him when mentoring. He was town then and i am seeing a lot of the same town and puppylike overeagerness that gets him hit with signs.

 

Am looking at Shad was concerned he was fencesitting on seph but then he dropped the vote. reevaluating.

This is town Dice probably, though I'm hesitant to claim that now. (HP mafia) At most he's in a town lean at the moment.

 

#209 BFG also asks about the TMI

@BFG, because the "0-2" implies an assumption that they were actually attempted reads - i.e that darthe is town Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I'm not sure if this is the answer I'm looking for.

 

 

Yes :) anything else would have worried me

 

Can you explain your reads on Kivam and Seph up to this point?

Seph's attitude is very different here than in Star Wars. He's playing with confidence and swagger where I remember him as defensive and insecure. His more recent games should tell me if this is his new norm. Supposing for now that it is since no one has called him out for it, the big thing that bugs me is the explanation behind his Darthe vote. He contradicted himself explaining his thought process, as I see it, and I don't get how that happens if he was being honest. But he's putting on a show of trying to solve. Three votes and a lot of accusations didn't frazzle him much. It's not the Seph I towned with two months ago but that's not scummy in and of itself.

 

Kivam is interesting. I feel like he's all over the place. I want to interpret it as trying to shake things up and keep the game moving. He's having a go at people who haven't been sussed at all (Sooh, Tina, Hallia, me before I got into it with Seph). That's productive at this stage, if it creates some inconsistency. He got on Sooh for sussing me over the Seph vote. That felt weird, but I'm not seeing Sooh's scum game at all here and he might not know what to look for. I don't have a clue what is normal for him so meh. I want to like him.

Good post here.

 

Laine????

 

 

 

 

 

Hi darling!

interesting reads last night.

 

Less Darthe than usual, but i will stick that on his new job.

 

BFG in da house, got the same feel i had during the last game we were in. She's putting out quite some effort. Good

 

Seph has gotten someheat, which i deem normal. He's been active and out there a lot. it could raise suspicion, true. But i feel Seph is acting normal.

 

Good luck in your job Tina. I'll go back on monday after only three weeks off..

 

looking forward to more Laine this game.

<3 I'm feeling the love. How are you people getting so much time off? The most I ever get off is my weekends... I'm saddened.

 

Post#260 Agree with Talya's assessment that Seph feels more natural than in British Monarchy. Also I'd like to note that Seph is normally only mafia in the Black Tower. lol

 

ehh, I think you spilling the beans, had the dissuade factor. not sooh, nudging shad.

All due respect, Seph, this is silly. Once Player A (Shad) has gotten pressure for voting Player X (You), Player X is no longer low hanging fruit and a cautious mafioso isn't going to come piling on to a bandwagon.

 

@BFG, because the "0-2" implies an assumption that they were actually attempted reads - i.e that darthe is town Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I really dislike this post by kiv.

darthe posted them, so they are reads. apparently something you forgot while interpreting my post for me is MAFIA have to make reads as well!

I never once have called darthe town, and no it does NOT imply that.

[unvote]

[v] kiv[/v]

And this is also silly. (Not the vote, but the thought process). Mafia members don't make or post "reads". Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum). But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

I disagree with you Kiv. Mafia have to make reads to appear town. Yes, they're fake reads but they can be posted to appear natural enough. I think this is where I'm getting tripped up on the TMI discussion: Seph was purely questioning Darthe's reads on the surface and not looking at it like you are assuming. This actually might look worse for Tina who jumped on your TMI argument before voting; she's actually played with Seph before I think.

 

Catching up, I have a town read on Kiv, BFG, and Leelou. I really like that short read list she posted.

 

I feel a bit better about Thane. I think my problem is that I always scum read him, but now that he's posting actual reads based on game play, I like it.

 

Ready for more Laine.

 

I don't know about Seph. My gut tells me town though.

 

Not liking Tina or Shad atm. (Gameplay that is, I love you both <3 )

I mostly agree with this. Not getting the same feeling from Leelou yet, I think I tend to scum read her. Thane okay for me, I'm glad I'm missed as well. Gut town for Seph. Not a fan of Tina or Shad, personally. Also probably a town lean from Hally for this post <3  I like when you're being transparent in your reads

 

Kivam unvotes Tina after her WoT

Tina unvotes Seph for his post explaining myself, which I agree with.

 

townies

sooh

dice

bfg

thane

hallia

 

not townies

leelou

shad

talya

tina

alanna

darthe

kiv

 

I put the list in order for you

[edited the post to fix background which was messing up quoting]

Just noting this, not a fan of not having nulls but I can also see why. [you explain further down] At the same time, it's odd that you still have Talya and Leelou in that bottom list even though you too them out of your trio and left Darthe to vote. Wouldn't a null, in this instance, be useful? I think I agree with your townies though.

 

Just quickly;

 

@Kivam - I read Tommy's basic game (I am well aware how long ago it was ) during it you spent a lot of your non-recap posts debating game mechanics in as much as good and bad ways to play. Basically you were interacting but not doing anything, if that makes sense? You were pushing an INFO lynch over a low poster lynch. This game you're accepting of different play styles and seemingly working with/round them. Against that (for example) that post of Sephs where you isolate a word from the phrase or where you quote Tina's vote bit ignore her post beforehand that 'explains' it.

 

Essentially your play 'style' seems more townie, but I'm wary because I'm not sure if you're genuinely interpreting the posts the way you say, or if you're trying to twist the way you present the information.

I would say the latter from the experience I remember with Kivam, actually, but that was along time ago. I feel like he reads things differently and that may come off as him twisting words a bit. For example, seeing Seph's post as TMI but failing to realize Seph's intention with his words. I'm withholding judgement on his alignment until I can get a better read and see some flips.

 

Post #329 of Dice's: I like everything there, and I think I made my comments on town/mafia reads above, so I'm with him here.

 

I feel like Seph as scum is a whole lot more cautious than he has been in this game. It's a weak meta, I know, but as a villager he doesn't have to concern himself with being consistent. He feels open and free to me, and not at all guarding his words.

Agreed.

 

 

 

As for reads so far..

Town pile: Dice, BFG, Thane, Hally

Mix: Sooh, Seph

Leaning scum: Shad, Tina

 

Null: Darthe, Kiv, Talya, Leelou

 

The town pile have done nothing to warrant not having them there as of yet. Sooh is in mix because I didn't like her adding to what was going on earlier but other than that she's been around and posting. Seph is there because I'm on the fence about his alignment. I can make points on him either way and so he's going to sit there. Shad's in my scum pile because that vote on Seph was out of character for him and it's really bothering me, though I need to look at his most recent posts which I largely ignored (they had a lot of words so I'll get back to them). Tina is my bottom read purely because of the opportunistic vote on Seph based on "TMI". It's really sticking out to me right now and her explanations later did nothing to make me feel better about it. 

 

@Kiv: did you unvote Tina because you liked her explanations or because you were satisfied that she'd come back into the thread? (though I know you wont get this until after the deadline...)

 

My null pile is there because I suck at reading those four either way. They may sit there for a while.

 

That.  Didn't have much in the way of suspicions for her to answer in the first place - I just wanted more content so I could analyze her later, and she gave it.  Hence no reason to leave the vote there.

 

Re Dice's post 329, I love that we've got totally opposite reactions to it.

 

Re TMI, it was influenced by my early misread of Seph's "soul read" post as listing townies.

 

[Kivam]

Ok, at this point I think I have Thane, Seph and (oddly) Talya as town leans. So I guess it's time to reread.

 

Kivam, I see what you're saying about not stating town reads, but I work via POE as much as anything else, so not stating town reads means I'm not going to be posting much of anything by means of an actual solve.

 

Thank you.  Somebody gets it.  It's one thing to say "I see the risk but it's worth it".  It's something else entirely to say "of course we should hand the scum a prioritized kill list.  Why wouldn't we?"

 

[Kivam]

Ok, I started with a ISO on Seph, since he's at the centre of the game so far.

 

 

 

 

It's night, not daytime.... dang future people.

Sooh and Dice are town :) locking in those page 1 reads

 

 

 

 

It's night, not daytime.... dang future people.

Sooh and Dice are town :) locking in those page 1 reads

Considering your D1 read of the Ape ... done and done.  Sooh and Dice are town.

 

Unless you're scum.  You're not scum, are you?  Post in lavender if you are scum.  (BTW, the number of posts in that game that I have held myself back from repping for fear that someone would read more into it than "wow, that's a funny post" is ridiculous)

 

Town, and I definitely like your opening posts so far :) this is going to be a good game!

 

 

 

I already got 3 townies, and it feels good!

Going to try this soulread thing I have seen, to see how mine has been developing.

 

Tayla, leelou, Darthe

 

 

Just be town thane, and bring the booze, and the rest will fall in place.

If we get everyone drunk, the mafia will be inclined to tell us if they are the bad guys.

That's what boost does right, makes people more truthful?

 

 

Fos tayla for drinking water!

 

Assumed joke :)

 

 

 

should Darthe wield the axe... would be good, he'd be town then

Thane and seph have a wolf between them I think

 

Darthe... I usually like your early reads, but going 0-2 on page 5 is not a good look, I think that job is affecting your brain!

 

at the moment, i highly doubt that Darthe. Seph seems quite town, unless he's pulling somehting off from start D1 (which i doubt) and i have an awesome anti-wolf power up my sleave. So, if you're town as well, i'd like to throw you on the townpile and keep looking elsewhere

I'll town read Seph when I manage to piss him off and harvest massive emo town tell again.

 

Lol, well shad if you want to thunderdome on page 6, bring it :) it would be a much easier game, if I can get a town read on you. I have never seen you as scum before, and it worries me with how well you have been playing.

I feel like Shad's method for town reading me, is actually my method for town reading Dice lol.

 

Town list of awesomeness

Dice

Sooh

Thane

 

I suck at reading leelou, but her posts are fine. If she Is mafia, and darthe is town, I will the the cfd to him :)

Tayla I want to believe you are town! But if that is the case I think I need to give it another 15 games before I soulread again...

[v] Darthe[/v]

the soulread couldn't have been all wrong :(

 

The underlined to Talya makes absolutely no sense...

 

 

 

 

 

 

should Darthe wield the axe... would be good, he'd be town then

Thane and seph have a wolf between them I think

 

Darthe... I usually like your early reads, but going 0-2 on page 5 is not a good look, I think that job is affecting your brain!

 

Why are you so sure he went 0-2? And even if you are a townie who is that sure of your 5-page read of Thane, why are you defaulting to "Darthe is a townie making bad reads" instead of "Darthe may be scum setting up a false choice"?

 

Well I am 100% he went 0-1, and I feel like I can read thane pretty well. The more you get thane to talk, the easier it is to out him as scum. So while he isn't a lock read, I am feeling really good about him this far. Thane is a person that has a difficult time faking tone, and when he does his posts look plain weird.

 

Sue me, but I think thane is town, and I'm sticking to it!

 

 

 

Also I totally forgot to add Kivam to the town list

 

His handling of his town reads is consistent throughout

 

No, my vote is based entirely off my soul read, I was trying to make that obvious :)

I can't be wrong on all three, right?

 

 

I will state this for you all.

I voted darthe because I think k tayla, and leelou could be town.

I didn't want my soulread to be 0%

 

It was not a serious vote. Shad, why did you think it was serious?

He had two posts in the game, I would have the same %chance to vote anyone else in the game.

 

 

Leelou, I was voting darthe to get a reaction out of him, plain and simple.

 

0% the soul read was simply for fun, ad i figured by placing a vote, referencing it people wouod realize it as a joke. Which most did mind you.

It's page 7...point me to somone who is actively scum hunting with only half the game checked in leelou.

The reactions I got towards the post however, will help towards hunting.

 

 

Ok, this is where he seems to start fumbling a little, his vote on Darthe wasn't supposed to be serious, but it was a reaction test? That seems contradictory to me.

 

 

I told you, I wanted to see how darthe would react.

I did not vote him because I believed he was scum off of his two posts. I voted him as a joke, to see how darthe responded. I get better reads by interacting with people, and reading there tone.

 

I'm not backing away, by anyeans. I'm telling you it was never meant as a serious vote. I never thought darthe was scum at any point in time, and I was hoping his reaction would help me get a read on him, especially if he won't be as active.

 

However here, he says them both in the same post, so it must make sense to him in his own mind? Or he's covering, idk.

 

Later he says it was to get the game going hmmmmmmmmmm....

 

 

Ebwodp.

I did not believe he was scum

 

 

Or maybe I had it worded right the first time... lol I can't even make sense of my own posts.

 

 

I really liked the interaction between the two of them.

Sooh is probably my stongest town read, her tone is great, she isn't posting cautiously. She is all around towny in my eyes!

 

 

Getting the game going, and getting reactions is scummy?

Maybe you need to post a play by play again, on how I should play the game.

 

Shad, why are you giving me a pass here?

Darthe you vote to get a reaction I believe. And did you just call me scummy, but not scummy?? Why are you not voting me?

 

You think this is going to get me killed?? Trust me I'm not letting anyone mislynch me this game, unless I take down. Wolf or two in the process.

To you I say, glgl.

 

Keeping my vote on darthe for fence sitting.

 

 

 

 

Leelou, I was voting darthe to get a reaction out of him, plain and simple.

0% the soul read was simply for fun, ad i figured by placing a vote, referencing it people wouod realize it as a joke. Which most did mind you.

It's page 7...point me to somone who is actively scum hunting with only half the game checked in leelou.

The reactions I got towards the post however, will help towards hunting.

 

Red is reasonable.  Green really isn't when you are someone who I know makes serious votes early in a game without much to back them.  If you're town, try to keep in mind that it's ok to look derpy sometimes even if you really aren't.  This reads to me like you're digging for an out rather than explaining your thought process.

 

Because here it looks like you were giving me a pass. Every other game I have been in with you, when you find something suspicious, you usually lay down a vote. I found d it odd is all

 

In these last 2 posts he starts analysing the results of his 'soul read'

 

 

 

There's a high amount of internal consistency within his town reads (bolded, green in spoiler), but it is hard to follow his 'soul read' (bolded, purple).

 

It isn't explicitly stated when he reads Thane as town prior to the post in which he responds to Darthe, but I don't think this is a big deal. And if we're being nitpicky (and we all know I'm nitpicky) then it's maybe odd that he initially forgets Kivam on his list, but again, this doesn't really seem like a big deal.

 

The initial confusion seems to be in the definition of soul read. But accepting that he meant random guess it makes more sense.

 

BUT he's all over the place with his non town reads. He thinks Talya and Leelou could be town so votes Darthe as the last of his soul read? But then never thought they were town?

 

His vote on Darthe is bizarre and badly explained. Initially it was a joke, then it was a reaction test and then it was to 'get the game going'??? (underlined and bolded, orange)

 

Yeah, this isn't looking as good as I thought.

 

The biggest ping of all comes in that his posting drops once he starts getting less pressure.

 

The only thing I really have in his favour is that I don't necessarily think Seph makes such a bold move as mafia, he knows that it's easy to NOT draw attention to yourself? But I don't know, I know he roots for mafia in games he isn't playing

 

I like that he starts analysing the results of his 'test' but his analysis seems limited(?). His read never develops on Leelou or Talya who have been questioning him...

 

This maybe makes Leelou look better, since it turns out I don't understand Seph's progression here after all

 

@Seph moving on from the soul read, can you explain your vote on Darthe? How in your mind can something be a joke, a reaction test and a kickstarter?

 

You have 6 or 7 townies, which leaves several people not townie - other than Kivam who do you feel worst about?

 

 

Good stuff here.  Pulled together, it has the look of a player who is losing track of his lies.

 

[Kivam]

 

Obviously doesn't prove your point, but clever bait.  Shad has a town lean on somebody.  Yay.

 

So this exchange still sounds strange, but I'm not sure why.

 

Kivam doesn't like using emo as a town tell so fakes emo on nothing. It's obviously fake and Shad reads it as townie, because of the read potential? I sort of understand why Shad made his read, but it still stands out at this point.

 

I don't understand what Kivam was trying to achieve. BUT it was early in the game, so its possible its just to get conversation started?

 

 

I wasn't trying to achieve anything beyond proving my point that using emo as a towntell is a sucker's game

 

[Kivam]

 

 

I need to reread. Right now I have no idea which way I want to go with my vote.

You getting anywhere with this???

 

Got distracted  boyfriend.

 

Going back to my reading now. 

 

 

"Distracted"?  Tell me more

 

[BFG]

Good morning :)

[BFG]

 

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.

 

sometimes true. also true is that you often doubt me when you are mafia.

 

 

 

as for activity    even I have a life occasionally. 

 

 

BFG you gotta have things to comment on to make comments. I havent understood a lot of what kivs been going at  i commented on seph cause he was a hot topic and other then that this games been fairly bland for me.

Thane and I were essentially saying the same thing yesterday. Why soft FOS Thane and appeal to me? Are you really telling me that after yesterday you have no reads?

[Kivam]

This still sort of stands out because Kivam missed Seph's early 'reads' and I'm not sure how that 'happens' HOWEVER we're still early game and reading that post of Depths it does look like Sept is contradicting himself. Still ok at this point.

 

It happens when you are playing mafia on tapatalk or with a baby on your lap, unfortunately

 

So Kivam is actually the FIRST person to start removing pressure of Seph, later on he calls out Sooh and Tina? for this

 

Nope. It wasn't about taking pressure off of Seph, it was about putting pressure on Shad for the vote.  And it wasn't a call out - Shad deserved the pressure, so unless Seph actually is scum, there was nothing anti-town about their response.  It was just disappointment that it didn't have a bit longer to play out to see if anyone else jumped on Seph's bandwagon.

 

[BFG]

 

 

Obviously doesn't prove your point, but clever bait.  Shad has a town lean on somebody.  Yay.

So this exchange still sounds strange, but I'm not sure why.

 

Kivam doesn't like using emo as a town tell so fakes emo on nothing. It's obviously fake and Shad reads it as townie, because of the read potential? I sort of understand why Shad made his read, but it still stands out at this point.

 

I don't understand what Kivam was trying to achieve. BUT it was early in the game, so its possible its just to get conversation started?

 

 

I wasn't trying to achieve anything beyond proving my point that using emo as a towntell is a sucker's game

 

So what's your opinion of Shad town reading you for it?

[BFG]

 

This still sort of stands out because Kivam missed Seph's early 'reads' and I'm not sure how that 'happens' HOWEVER we're still early game and reading that post of Depths it does look like Sept is contradicting himself. Still ok at this point.

 

It happens when you are playing mafia on tapatalk or with a baby on your lap, unfortunately

 

So Kivam is actually the FIRST person to start removing pressure of Seph, later on he calls out Sooh and Tina? for this

 

Nope. It wasn't about taking pressure off of Seph, it was about putting pressure on Shad for the vote.  And it wasn't a call out - Shad deserved the pressure, so unless Seph actually is scum, there was nothing anti-town about their response.  It was just disappointment that it didn't have a bit longer to play out to see if anyone else jumped on Seph's bandwagon.

 

Umm, heads up you're going to run into a few of these things. Sorry in advance, my thread recall is apparently pretty shocking this game :/

[Kivam]

 

I'm going to [v]unvote[/v].  Seph's reaction to pressure seemed believable to me.  I'm still concerned by the potential TMI slip more than anything, so I'm not exactly tossing Seph into the townpile, but it's not enough to justify a bandwagon this early.

 

That said, I'm pretty annoyed by the pressure Shad is getting for his vote ... was hoping to see another few people hop onto the Seph lynch when it seemed like low hanging fruit before unvoting.  That won't be happening now.

This is better than I remembered as well. Kivam's annoyed that 'pressure' is being applied to Shad, NOT that pressure is being removed from Seph.

 

 

Heh. Perils of doing a live reaction during a catch up.  You caught this answer already

[BFG]

1. Hallia

2. Darthe

3. Thane

4. Laine

5. Seph

6. Kivam

7. Dice

10. Shad

11. Talya

12. Sooh

13. Leelou

 

 

Tina - lynched Day 1

 

 

 

This doesn't really feel right :( and I can't say that I have confidence in any of them.

[Kivam]

 

*snip*

 

And this is also silly.  (Not the vote, but the thought process).  Mafia members don't make or post "reads".  Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum).  But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

Laine and I believe Dice already pointed at this post where basically what I read is that he thinks mafia members don't make reads, they make fake reads, and that somehow we're supposed to know that off the cuff which is which. It's such a weird thing to post.

 

SOOOOO sick of talking about this already, but once more into the breach.

 

Step 1: Seph posts "I have 3 townies. Soul reading Leelou, Talya, Darthe". I read that as "I think these three are townies.

Step 2: Seph posts "0-2. Not a good look. Job rotting your brain" about Darthe's reads. The "0-2" and "Job is rotting your brain" parts both read (to me) as assuming Darthe is town swinging and missing on real reads, and the "0-2" part looks like TMI to me as well.  That's particularly true given the "job rotting your brain" end of the quote, since its only function in the post is providing an explanation for "Town Darthe missing his reads".  

 

So all I'll say is this - that's not how I would have phrased that post as a townie.  I'm a logician and lawyer, so words and semantics are near and dear to my heart.

 

 

OK, pretty much signing off for Shabbos - I may have another chance to show up before candle lighting, but I doubt it - so I'm going to [v]Shad[/v].  I really did not like the hemming and hawing before voting for Seph, and then voting Seph after he posted what I thought was a very convincing explanation.  This vote is likely locked in, given the deadline, so let's see what shakes free from it.

This is a turnaround from when he was pointing fingers at those who sussed Shad for his vote on Seph. Not sure how you got from here to there. When you catch up, can you clarify?

 

Oh, FFS.  I never pointed any fingers at people calling out Shad. Can this misread of my post please and finally be *&^%ing dropped?

 

[Sooh]

 

 

 

I need to reread. Right now I have no idea which way I want to go with my vote.

You getting anywhere with this???

 

Got distracted  boyfriend.

 

Going back to my reading now. 

 

 

"Distracted"?  Tell me more

 

 

Alright... here are all the dirty details: 

 

In your dreams

 

[Kivam]

@Kivam - regarding activity, why pick out Hallia and Tina specifically at that point? Laine had one post, why leave her off your list

 

Because I've played with her before, and modded games with her in them before, and she doesn't stick in my head as a player who lurks as a general rule.  Hallia and Tina do.

 

[Sooh]

*snip*

Oh, FFS.  I never pointed any fingers at people calling out Shad. Can this misread of my post please and finally be *&^%ing dropped?

 

 

No

 

Ok then. 

 

Clean slate. 

[Kivam]

 

I probably don't want to vote Kivam today, the things I think I see are generally because I'm misremembering his posts the early game stuff could be 'kickstarter' stuff. I'd want to see his play when he comes back in thread before judging.

I have similar feelings. I want him to be around to respond to suspicions preferably. 

 

 

Awww.  You ladies definitely know how to make a guy feel warm and fuzzy

 

[BFG]

 

@Kivam - regarding activity, why pick out Hallia and Tina specifically at that point? Laine had one post, why leave her off your list

 

Because I've played with her before, and modded games with her in them before, and she doesn't stick in my head as a player who lurks as a general rule.  Hallia and Tina do.

 

Ok, Tina says she hasn't played many games with you so how do you have her on your list for that? Why not Dice?

[Kivam]

 

So what's your opinion of Shad town reading you for it?

 

 

Scummy as hell.  One of the major reasons (along with the push on Seph and a few other things of note) that I parked my D1 vote there. 

 

My personal 3-deep willing to lynch pile is Shad, Dice, and Seph.